Bonds and HOF a year off: song and dance time?

[Iowanic]

http://www.examiner.com/article/form...es-anyone-care

I article I found worth reading.....

My theory from almost the moment Barry Bonds retired was that sooner or later he'd start a full-court press from the media to make himself seem worthy enough for the HOF.
I wonder if the harder he tries to rewrite his history; will it actually work against him?

[GiambiJuice]

"Seem" worthy enough?

Whether you like him or not, the guy is an inner-circle Hall Of Famer. Even if he retired after 1999, he's easily a top 25 player ever.

I can understand the voters making him wait a few years, but if he doesn't eventually get elected, then the Hall Of Fame is a joke.

[metfan13]

He should not get elected. Should get the Pete Rose treatment. He and McGwire and Clemens and Sosa can sit around and wonder, "what if".

[Iowanic]

He was already roiding by 99....

My point is: how far will Bond's go to get elected? How hard is he going to try to rewite the past and put in in a new, more fan-friendly press-release?

It looks to me that the first few steps might already being taken.....

[GiambiJuice]

He was already roiding by 99....

If he retired after 1998 - or even after 1997 - Still an easy HOFer.

[Iowanic]

Too bad his ego wouldn't settle for that then. What happened after 99 reflects on his electability as much(If not more) then what happened before. It's a matter of which part of his career has the most meaning.

I guess we'll find out how much the HOF means to him.

[dgarza]

"Seem" worthy enough?

People still use propaganda even if it's not necessary to build up a case.

[doctor_gogol]

"Seem" worthy enough?

Whether you like him or not, the guy is an inner-circle Hall Of Famer. Even if he retired after 1999, he's easily a top 25 player ever.

I can understand the voters making him wait a few years, but if he doesn't eventually get elected, then the Hall Of Fame is a joke.

I can't disagree. And I can't say that just because a player used HGH that they should be exempted from the hall. Why should that be?

Roids can make you hit for power. They can't make you connect with the ball. I'm sure MANY other players juiced up and it had limited effects on their numbers. I'm sure Bonds batted against users.

I think he belongs. But I doubt he'll ever be in the hall. He was a user but did things that many other users didn't even approach.

Questions: with all the HGH use in the 90s, why weren't distance records shattered along with numerical records?
Were overall MLB HR numbers increasing during this time as well?

[fenrir]

Of the steroid guys, I think either Rodriguez or Bonds have the best shot of getting in. Bonds because he was supposedly "clean" pre 1999, and Arod because for whatever reason he seems to get somewhat of a free pass when it comes to steroids. People take him at his word when he says he "only" used for three years, despite the fact that he's flat out lied in the past. Clemens has made such a mockery of himself that I think he will never get in, especially if he's convicted.

I think the question is, what if we later find out that there's already a steroid user in the HOF? Does that suddenly open doors for juicers like Mcgwire?

[GiambiJuice]

Questions: with all the HGH use in the 90s, why weren't distance records shattered along with numerical records?

You sure about that? I remember guys like McGwire, Bonds, even the occasional Glenallen Hill type hitting 500+ foot homers pretty routinely. You never see 500+ homers anymore (the last one with a true distance over 500 feet was hit by Adam Dunn in 2008).

I remember Sammy Sosa hitting a bunch of 500+ footers in a Home Run Derby. The longest HR hit in last year's HR derby was 474 feet by Prince Fielder who is as strong as they come.

[GiambiJuice]

Of the steroid guys, I think either Rodriguez or Bonds have the best shot of getting in. Bonds because he was supposedly "clean" pre 1999, and Arod because for whatever reason he seems to get somewhat of a free pass when it comes to steroids. People take him at his word when he says he "only" used for three years, despite the fact that he's flat out lied in the past. Clemens has made such a mockery of himself that I think he will never get in, especially if he's convicted.

I think the question is, what if we later find out that there's already a steroid user in the HOF? Does that suddenly open doors for juicers like Mcgwire?

A-Rod still gets booed everywhere he plays and you will always hear the "STEROIDS!" chant when he is at bat. If anyone from this generation has gotten a total free pass, it is David Ortiz. He's the biggest fraud in Baseball IMO.

[fenrir]

A-Rod still gets booed everywhere he plays and you will always hear the "STEROIDS!" chant when he is at bat. If anyone from this generation has gotten an absolute free pass, it is David Ortiz. The biggest fraud in Baseball IMO.

Hmm, perhaps you would know more than me since you are a Yankees fan who probably watches every game. I'm with you on Ortiz. It's especially funny how we learned that he tested positive a few months after he publicly spoke against steroid use. He won't get in the HOF any way because he doesn't have the numbers.

I also think Pettitte has gotten a free pass, despite being just as big of a liar as his buddy Clemens.

[GiambiJuice]

Hmm, perhaps you would know more than me since you are a Yankees fan who probably watches every game. I'm with you on Ortiz. It's especially funny how we learned that he tested positive a few months after he publicly spoke against steroid use. He won't get in the HOF any way because he doesn't have the numbers.

I also think Pettitte has gotten a free pass, despite being just as big of a liar as his buddy Clemens.

I agree with you about Pettitte.

[KCGHOST]

The irony of Bonds courting the Press is just too much. And using an obviously falsehood just makes it all the worse.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

So Bonds shows up to one Giants game and he is suddenly "courting" the press? Bonds comes to Giants games from time to time. This is news how?

[Iowanic]

Yep, it is.
Thus the thread.....

As I wrote: I smell the start of a media-make-over right in the offing.

[drstrangelove]

He was already roiding by 99....

My point is: how far will Bond's go to get elected? How hard is he going to try to rewite the past and put in in a new, more fan-friendly press-release?

It looks to me that the first few steps might already being taken.....

Bonds has relied upon believing his own hype. He thinks fans love him and don't care. He thinks he did nothing wrong. He thinks because we didn't 'win' a steroid conviction against him, that we now agree he didn't use steroids.

I don't know if he started using long before 99 (some people think so), but putting him in the Hall would itself be a joke. Priests who commit pedophile crimes don't get named saints. Philanthropists who commit felonies don't get to vote. War heroes who murder their kids don't get a 'get out of jail free' card. And PED users don't get to go to the HoF. They're adults and they chose money and fame over the Hall. That's a choice they made, so at least, we can grant them that choice.

[kiluckzle]

The guy is famous, therefore, he should be in the Hall of Fame. Seems easy enough.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Hmm, perhaps you would know more than me since you are a Yankees fan who probably watches every game. I'm with you on Ortiz. It's especially funny how we learned that he tested positive a few months after he publicly spoke against steroid use. He won't get in the HOF any way because he doesn't have the numbers.

I also think Pettitte has gotten a free pass, despite being just as big of a liar as his buddy Clemens.

I'm not going to defend Petitte using, no better than other users. But when did he deny using.Did he lie about using because of injuries, we don't know. Sure we can say he admitted after he was known to use, but I don't recall him saying he did not use. Clemens deny's, Barry and some other claim if they did use.............they were unaware.

[fenrir]

I'm not going to defend Petitte using, no better than other users. But when did he deny using.Did he lie about using because of injuries, we don't know. Sure we can say he admitted after he was known to use, but I don't recall him saying he did not use. Clemens deny's, Barry and some other claim if they did use.............they were unaware.

Shoeless, he denied in the past about using PED's prior to when he was listed on the Mitchell Report. He then admitted to using once in 2002, and then later admitted another time of use in 2004. He has lied before.

[Tenorman]

The guy is famous, therefore, he should be in the Hall of Fame. Seems easy enough.

Some might call him INFAMOUS... do we need a Hall of Infamy?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Shoeless, he denied in the past about using PED's prior to when he was listed on the Mitchell Report. He then admitted to using once in 2002, and then later admitted another time of use in 2004. He has lied before.

Was not aware of that but checked it out and your correct did find that to be true. So at one time he did deny but some of the others deny to this very day, no matter what the proof. Some ar going to grave denying or pleading the unaware line.
Can't say that makes Andy better or worse than those who will never admit but I think in the minds of some he comes off looking not as bad. Probably why we don't see him getting as much ink as some of those in denial. In the end he is not any better.

[brett]

I'd put Bonds and Clemens in, but I'd include an objective account of their PED cases on their plaque such as going to trial for purgery. I would not put in McGwire, and am having a hard time with A-Rod as well.

[doctor_gogol]

Priests who commit pedophile crimes don't get named saints.

Are you SURE about that?

[pheasant]

I cannot put Bonds in the Hall. I have him as the 4th best player ever, even assuming a natural decline starting 1999 or so. But he clearly broke the rules and must pay the price. 104 wrongs doesn't make a right. Mcgwire hasn't even been close to getting 75% of the votes. I believe he's been around 20%. The difference here, however, is that "skinny" Bonds was already an all-time great. However, he cheated the game, the fans, and himself. Thus, Bonds should definitely not make the Hall. What a shame!