30th Greatest Hitter

**Bill Burgess** · 06-10-2012, 07:33 AM

Congratulations to Mike Piazza, the Dodgers/Mets heavy-hitting catcher, for winning our 29th Greatest Hitter series! He scored 38 points and 5 first place votes! He beat out Tony Gwynn, the Padres' hefty right-fielder with the sweet swing, who amassed 26 points but no first place votes. Third place money went to Manny Ramirez, who scored 24 points and a single first place vote.

Thanks to the 6 people who participated in this round! I really appreciate it!

This round for our 30th Greatest Hitter of All Time is now open! Let the Games Begin! Round 30 will end when AstrosFan calls it. How bout helpin' him out with lots of full 5 person ballots and 5 person Honorable Mentions to work with!

Red = Negro Leagues = 1
Blue = 19th Century = 1
Bold = active = 1

1. Babe Ruth
2. Ted Williams
3. Ty Cobb
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Rogers Hornsby
6. Mickey Mantle
7. Stan Musial
8. Barry Bonds
9. Hank Aaron
10. Honus Wagner
11. Willie Mays
12. Jimmie Foxx
13. Tris Speaker
14. Joe DiMaggio
15. Josh Gibson
16. Frank Robinson
17. Frank Thomas
18. Nap Lajoie
19. Mel Ott
20. Albert Pujols
21. Mike Schmidt
22. Joe Jackson
23. Alex Rodriquez
24. Hank Greenberg
25. Dan Brouthers
26. Johnny Mize
27. Eddie Collins
28. Ed Delahanty
29. Mike Piazza
30.

As per our usual, please consider everything. Relative stats, counting totals, peak, longevity, special skills, home/away splits, etc. If anyone wants to show the relative stats, home/away breakdowns for the leading candidates, that would be great. Can't hurt, always helps.

We are now ONLY voting for the 30th Greatest Hitter. So, please submit your list of your next Top 5 Hitters along with your next set of 5 Honorable Mentions, if you would be so kind. As the winner of Round 29, Mike Piazza is now eliminated from our further consideration.

Code:

Round 1.---23 voters

-------------------1st pl.-----------2nd------3rd------4th----5th--Total 
1. Babe Ruth------70 pts.(14)------28(7)----3(1)------0-----1(1)----101 
2. Ted Williams-----30(6)------------48(12)---9(3)-----2(1)---1(1)----90
3. Ty Cobb---------15(3)-------------8(2)--30(10)-----6(3)-----0-----59
4. Lou Gehrig--------0----------------4(1)---15(5)----10(5)---5(5)----34
5. Rogers Hornsby---0-----------------0-------6(2)----12(6)---6(6)---24
6. Stan Musial-------0-----------------4(1)-----0-------2(1)---2(2)----8
7. Hank Aaron-------0-----------------0--------3(1)----2(1)---2(2)----7
7. Mickey Mantle----0-----------------0---------0------6(3)---1(1)----7
9. Barry Bonds------0-----------------0---------3(1)----0------2(2)---5
10. Frank Thomas---0-----------------0---------0-------4(2)----0-----4
11. Tony Gwynn----0-----------------0---------0--------2(1)----0-----2
12. Alex Rodriguez--0-----------------0---------0---------0------1(1)--1
13. Joe DiMaggio---0-----------------0---------0---------0------1(1)--1
14. Jimmy Foxx-----0-----------------0---------0---------0------1(1)--1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Round 2.---21 voters

1. Ted Williams - 101(17)
2. Ty Cobb - 73(4)
3. Lou Gehrig - 37
4. Rogers Hornsby - 35
5. Hank Aaron - 19
6. Stan Musial - 13
7. Willie Mays - 8
8. Josh Gibson - 6
9. Mickey Mantle - 5
10. Barry Bonds - 4
11. Tony Gwynn - 2
12. Honus Wagner - 1
12. Jimmy Foxx - 1
12. Alexander Rodriguez - 1

Here is the breakdown.

---------------------1st place------2nd--------3rd----------4th---------5th
1. Ted Williams--------85(17)-------16(4)-------0------------0-----------0
2. Ty Cobb-----------20(4)--------44(11)------6(2)--------2(1)---------1(1)
3. Lou Gehrig----------0------------4(1)-------6(2)--------6(3)---------4(4)
4. Rogers Hornsby-----0------------8(2)-------18(6)-------6(3)---------3(3)
5. Hank Aaron---------0------------4(1)-------6(2)--------6(3)---------4(4)
6. Stan Musial---------0------------4(1)-------3(1)--------4(2)---------2(2)
7. Willie Mays---------0--------------0----------0---------6(3)---------2(2)
8. Josh Gibson--------0--------------0---------6(2)---------0-----------0
9. Mickey Mantle------0--------------0---------3(1)--------0-----------2(2)
10. Barry Bonds-------0-------------4(1)--------0----------0------------0
11. Honus Wagner-----0--------------0---------0-----------0-----------1(1)
12. Jimmy Foxx--------0--------------0---------0-----------0-----------1(1)
13. Tony Gwynn-------0--------------0---------0-----------0-----------1(1)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Round 3.---20 voters

1. Ty Cobb - 85(12)
2. Lou Gehrig - 54(3)
3. Rogers Hornsby - 45(1)
4. Hank Aaron - 28(2)
5. Mickey Mantle - 18
6. Stan Musial - 15
7. Barry Bonds - 13(2)
8. Willie Mays - 11
9. Josh Gibson - 8
10. Honus Wagner - 7
10. Frank Thomas - 7
12. Jimmy Foxx - 4
13. Alexander Rodriguez - 1

Here's the fine breakdown.

---------------------1st-----2nd---3rd----4th----5th
1. Ty Cobb--------60(12)---12(3)--12(4)---0-----1(1)
2. Lou Gehrig-------5(3)-----8(2)---21(7)--8(4)---2(2)
3. Rogers Hornsby--5(1)----24(6)----9(3)--4(2)---3(3)
4. Hank Aaron-----10(2)------0------6(2)-10(5)---2(2)
5. Mickey Mantle----0-------8(2)----0------8(3)---2(2)
6. Stan Musial-------0-------4(1)---3(1)----2(1)---6(6)
7. Barry Bonds------10(2)----0-----3(1)-----0------0
8. Willie Mays--------0-------8(2)--3(1)-----0------0
9. Josh Gibson-------0-------4(1)----0-----4(2)----0
10. Honus Wagner---0-------4(1)----0-----2(1)----1(1) 
10. Frank Thomas---0-------4(1)----3(1)----0------0
12. Jimmy Foxx-----0---------0-------0-----2(1)---2(2)
13. Alexander Rodriguez-0----0--------0------0-----1(1)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Round 4.  ---21 voters.

1. Lou Gehrig - 85(9)
2. Rogers Hornsby - 82(9)
3. Mickey Mantle - 32(1)
4. Hank Aaron - 27(1)
5. Stan Musial - 17
6. Honus Wagner - 16
7. Josh Gibson - 15
8. Willie Mays - 11
9. Barry Bonds - 8
10. Jimmy Foxx - 6
11. Frank Thomas - 5
12. Alexander Rodriguez - 3
13. Chino Smith - 2
14. Joe DiMaggio - 1
14. Rod Carew - 1
14. Tris Speaker - 1

Fine Breakdown:

---------------------------1st---2nd----3rd----4th---5th
1. Lou Gehrig-------------45(9)--24(6)--12(4)--4(2)---0
2. Rogers Hornsby--------45(9)--24(6)---9(3)---4(2)---0
3. Mickey Mantle----------5(1)---4(1)--15(5)---8(4)---0
4. Hank Aaron-------------5(1)---4(1)---9(3)---4(2)--5(5)
5. Stan Musial--------------0-----4(1)---6(2)---6(3)--1(1)
6. Honus Wagner-----------0-----8(2)---3(1)----0----5(5) 
6. Josh Gibson-------------0-----4(1)---9(3)----2(1)---0 
8. Willie Mays--------------0-----4(1)----0------6(3)--1(1)
9. Barry Bonds-------------0-----4(1)----0------2(1)--2(2) 
10. Frank Thomas----------0-----4(1)----0------0-----1(1) 
11. Jimmy Foxx------------0-------0------0-----4(2)--2(2) 
12. Alexander Rodriguez----0-------0------0-----2(1)--1(1) 
13. Chino Smith------------0-------0------0-----2(1)---0
14. Joe DiMaggio-----------0-------0------0------0----1(1)
14. Rod Carew-------------0-------0------0------0----1(1)
14. Tris Speaker

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Code:


	Code:
	Round 5.---21 voters.---last round

1. Rogers Hornsby - 92(17)
2. Mickey Mantle - 38(1)
3. Barry Bonds - 32(1)
4. Honus Wagner - 30
5. Stan Musial - 28
6. Hank Aaron - 24(1)
7. Willie Mays - 17
8. Josh Gibson - 11
9. Joe DiMaggio - 6
10. Dan Brouthers - 5(1)
11. Jimmy Foxx - 4
12. Frank Thomas - 3
12. Ichiro Suzuki - 3
14. Alexander Rodriguez - 2
14. Chino Smith - 2
16. Joe Jackson - 1
16. Buck Leonard - 1
16. Tris Speaker - 1

The fine breakdown.
---------------------1st------2nd----3rd-----4th-----5th---Totals
1. Rogers Hornsby----85(17)---4(1)--3(1)------0------0------92
2. Mickey Mantle-------5(1)--16(4)---12(4)---2(1)---3(3)----38
3. Barry Bonds----------5(1)---8(2)----3(1)--14(7)---2(2)----32
4. Honus Wagner---------0----24(6)---6(2)----0------0------30
5. Stan Musial------------0-----4(1)--12(4)---2(1)---3(2)----28
6. Hank Aaron-----------5(1)----4(1---9(3)---4(2)---2(1)----24
7. Willie Mays-------------0-----4(1)---6(2)---4(2)---3(3)----17
8. Josh Gibson------------0-----8(2)---3(1)-----0-----0------11
9. Joe DiMaggio-----------0-------0----3(3)---2(1)---1(1)-----6
10. Dan Brouthers--------5(1)-----0-----0------0------0------5
11. Jimmy Foxx-----------0-------0------0-----0------4(4)----4
12. Frank Thomas--------0--------0----3(1)----0------0-------3
12. Ichiro Suzuki---------0--------0----3(1)----0------0-------3
14. Alexander Rodriquez--0--------0-----0------2(1)---0-------2
14. Chino Smith----------0--------0-----0------2(1)---0-------2
16. Joe Jackson----------0--------0-----0------0------1(1)----1
16. Buck Leonard----------0--------0-----0------0-----1(1)----1
16. Tris Speaker-----------0--------0-----0------0-----1(1)----1
 Round 6

	Code:
	Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Mickey	Mantle		6	5	3	1	1	62
Stan	Musial		4	4	5	0	4	55
Barry	Bonds		5	2	3	3	2	50
Honus	Wagner		5	1	2	1	4	41
Willie	Mays		0	3	3	5	0	31
Hank	Aaron		0	2	1	5	2	23
Tris	Speaker		0	1	1	1	2	11
Josh	Gibson		0	1	1	1	0	9
Joe	DiMaggio	0	0	1	1	0	5
Alex	Rodriguez	0	1	0	0	1	5
Frank	Thomas		0	0	0	0	4	4
Round 7

	Code:
	Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Stan	Musial		4	9	3	1	2	69
Barry	Bonds		9	2	3	2	2	68
Hank	Aaron		0	3	5	4	3	38
Honus	Wagner		4	1	0	4	2	34
Willie	Mays		0	1	3	3	3	22
Jimmie	Foxx		1	1	3	0	0	18
Josh	Gibson		1	1	1	1	1	15
Tris	Speaker		0	1	2	0	4	14
Albert	Pujols		1	0	0	1	1	8
Joe	DiMaggio	0	1	0	1	1	7
Dan	Brouthers	0	0	1	1	0	5
Frank	Thomas		0	0	0	1	1	3
Roger	Connor		0	0	0	1	0	2
Alex	Rodriguez	0	0	0	0	0	0
Round 8.

	Code:
	Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Barry	Bonds		5	4	3	2	0	54
Hank	Aaron		3	1	8	1	4	49
Honus	Wagner		5	1	3	2	2	44
Willie	Mays		1	4	3	5	1	41
Jimmie	Foxx		2	4	1	1	6	37
Josh	Gibson		3	1	0	0	1	20
Tris	Speaker		0	1	1	2	2	13
Joe	DiMaggio	0	1	0	2	0	8
Frank	Thomas		0	1	0	2	0	8
Hank	Greenberg	0	1	1	0	0	7
Tony	Gwynn		1	0	0	0	0	5
Wade	Boggs		0	1	0	0	0	4
Joe	Jackson		0	0	0	1	1	3
Dan	Brouthers	0	0	0	1	0	2
Nap	Lajoie		0	0	0	1	0	2
Mel	Ott		0	0	0	0	1	1
Manny	Ramirez		0	0	0	0	1	1
Al	Simmons		0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 9.

	Code:
	Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Hank	Aaron		5	5	5	1	2	64
Willie	Mays		2	5	6	2	0	52
Honus	Wagner		5	3	2	2	3	50
Jimmie	Foxx		1	3	1	5	5	35
Tris	Speaker		1	1	1	1	4	18
Frank	Thomas		1	1	1	2	0	16
Josh	Gibson		2	0	0	1	0	12
Shoeless Joe	Jackson	1	0	0	1	0	7
Albert	Pujols		1	0	0	0	0	5
Joe	DiMaggio	0	0	1	0	1	4
Hank	Greenberg	0	1		0	0	4
Dan	Brouthers	0	0	1	0	0	3
Mel	Ott		0	0	0	1	1	3
Frank	Robinson	0	0	1	0	0	3
Nap	Lajoie		0	0	0	1	0	2
Manny	Ramirez		0	0	0	1	0	2
Sam	Thompson	0	0	0	1	0	2
Oscar	Charleston	0	0	0	0	1	1
Willie	McCovey		0	0	0	0	1	1
Alex	Rodriguez	0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 10

	Code:
	Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Honus		Wagner		8	2	2	3	0	60
Willie		Mays		3	6	4	2	2	57
Jimmie		Foxx		1	6	6	1	3	52
Frank		Thomas		2	3	3	1	1	34
Tris		Speaker		2	1	1	4	0	25
Shoeless Joe	Jackson		2	0	1	0	2	15
Josh		Gibson		1	1	0	1	1	12
Albert		Pujols		0	0	1	2	1	8
Frank		Robinson	0	1	0	1	1	7
Joe		DiMaggio	0	0	1	1	1	6
Dan		Brouthers	0	0	1	0	2	5
Alex		Rodriguez	1	0	0	0	0	5
Nap		Lajoie		0	0	0	1	1	3
Mel		Ott		0	0	0	1	1	3
Hank		Greenberg	0	0	0	1	0	2
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	1	0	2
Manny		Ramirez		0	0	0	0	2	2
Mike		Schmidt		0	0	0	0	1	1
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 11

	Code:
	Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Willie	Mays		12	3	0	3	0	78
Jimmie	Foxx		4	9	4	2	0	72
Tris	Speaker		0	2	4	2	3	27
Josh	Gibson		2	0	2	1	2	20
Frank	Thomas		1	0	3	2	0	18
Joe	DiMaggio	0	2	1	1	1	14
Frank	Robinson	0	0	1	3	2	11
Mel	Ott		0	1	1	1	1	10
Nap	Lajoie		0	0	1	2	2	9
Mike	Schmidt		0	0	0	2	3	7
Dan	Brouthers	0	1	0	0	2	6
Ken	Griffey Jr.	0	1	0	0	0	4
Hank	Greenberg	0	0	1	0	0	3
Alex	Rodriguez	0	0	1	0	0	3
Albert	Pujols		0	0	0	0	2	2
Ed	Delahanty	0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 12

	Code:
	Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Jimmie	Foxx		9	2	1	0	1	57
Tris	Speaker		0	4	0	7	0	30
Josh	Gibson		1	3	2	0	2	25
Joe	DiMaggio	2	2	0	1	4	24
Nap	Lajoie		0	1	3	0	0	13
Frank	Thomas		0	1	3	0	0	13
Mike	Schmidt		0	0	2	2	2	12
Frank	Robinson	0	0	2	1	2	10
Mel	Ott		0	0	1	2	0	7
Dan	Brouthers	1	0	0	0	1	6
Ken	Griffey Jr.	1	0	0	0	0	5
Hank	Greenberg	0	1	0	0	0	4
Ichiro	Suzuki		0	0	0	1	0	2
Mark	McGwire		0	0	0	0	1	1
Albert	Pujols		0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 13

	Code:
	Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Tris		Speaker		2	4	4	2	0	42
Josh		Gibson		5	2	0	2	0	37
Nap		Lajoie		2	2	2	0	1	25
Joe		DiMaggio	2	0	0	2	5	19
Mike		Schmidt		0	2	2	2	0	18
Frank		Robinson	0	1	1	3	1	14
Frank		Thomas		0	1	1	0	1	8
Dan		Brouthers	1	0	0	1	0	7
Hank		Greenberg	0	1	0	0	1	5
Ken		Griffey Jr.	1	0	0	0	0	5
Mel		Ott		0	0	1	0	1	4
Sam		Crawford	0	0	1	0	0	3
Shoeless Joe	Jackson		0	0	1	0	0	3
Lefty		O'Doul		0	0	0	1	0	2
Ed		Delahanty	0	0	0	0	1	1
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	0	0	1	1
Alex		Rodriguez	0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 14

	Code:
	Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Joe		DiMaggio	3	1	1	6	0	34
Josh		Gibson		3	2	3	0	1	33
Nap		Lajoie		3	1	2	1	2	29
Frank		Robinson	1	2	2	1	1	22
Mike		Schmidt		0	3	3	0	0	21
Frank		Thomas		0	2	1	0	2	13
Hank		Greenberg	1	0	0	1	4	11
Dan		Brouthers	1	0	1	0	0	8
Mel		Ott		0	1	1	0	0	7
Alex		Rodriguez	1	0	0	1	0	7
Ken		Griffey Jr.	1	0	0	0	0	5
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
Shoeless Joe	Jackson		0	1	0	0	0	4
Ed		Delahanty	0	0	0	1	0	2
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	0	1	0	2
Johnny		Mize		0	0	0	1	0	2
Albert		Pujols		0	0	0	0	2	2
Chino		Smith		0	0	0	1	0	2
Mark		McGwire		0	0	0	0	1	1
Lefty		O'Doul		0	0	0	0	1	1
15th Greatest Hitter

	Code:
	Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Josh		Gibson		6	3	3	1	1	54
Nap		Lajoie		3	2	3	2	0	36
Frank		Robinson	2	3	2	2	4	36
Mike		Schmidt		1	2	5	1	2	32
Frank		Thomas		0	6	0	2	0	28
Hank		Greenberg	2	0	1	4	0	21
Albert		Pujols		2	0	0	1	2	14
Mel		Ott		0	1	1	1	0	9
Alex		Rodriguez	1	0	1	0	1	9
Dan		Brouthers	1	0	1	0	0	8
Shoeless Joe	Jackson		0	1	0	1	1	7
Ken		Griffey Jr.	1	0	0	0	0	5
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
Johnny		Mize		0	0	1	0	1	4
Chino		Smith		0	0	1	0	0	3
Ed		Delahanty	0	0	0	1	0	2
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	0	1	0	2
Eddie		Collins		0	0	0	1	0	2
Mark		McGwire		0	0	0	1	0	2
Lefty		O'Doul		0	0	0	0	1	1
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	1	1
Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 16.

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Frank		Robinson	3	5	5	7	6	70
Frank		Thomas		4	3	7	5	5	68
Nap		Lajoie		4	1	4	4	1	45
Mike		Schmidt		0	4	2	7	4	40
Mel		Ott		1	2	4	1	8	35
Albert		Pujols		2	2	0	5	4	32
Hank		Greenberg	1	3	1	2	2	26
Joe		Jackson		0	1	3	4	4	25
Dan		Brouthers	2	1	1	0	3	20
Alex		Rodriguez	0	1	3	1	0	15
Eddie		Collins		0	0	0	1	2	4
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	1	0	0	0	4
Tony		Gwynn		0	0	0	2	0	4
Mark		McGwire		0	1	0	0	0	4
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	0	0	3
Johnny		Mize		0	0	0	0	2	2
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	2	2
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	1	0	2
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
George		Brett		0	0	0	0	1	1
Oscar		Charleston	0	0	0	0	1	1
Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 17.

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Frank		Thomas		3	2	5	10	4	62
Nap		Lajoie		4	2	3	3	2	45
Mel		Ott		1	4	1	4	7	39
Mike		Schmidt		0	3	3	5	8	39
Albert		Pujols		1	2	3	3	6	34
Hank		Greenberg	2	2	1	2	3	28
Joe		Jackson		0	0	5	3	4	25
Dan		Brouthers	2	1	1	2	1	22
Alex		Rodriguez	0	2	2	1	0	16
Tony		Gwynn		0	0	1	1	1	6
Eddie		Collins		0	0	0	2	1	5
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
Mark		McGwire		0	1	0	0	0	4
George		Brett		0	0	0	1	1	3
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	1	0	0	3
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	0	0	3
Johnny		Mize		0	0	0	0	2	2
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	2	2
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	1	0	2
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
Oscar		Charleston	0	0	0	0	1	1
Ed		Delahanty	0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 18

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Nap		Lajoie		4	3	2	3	3	47
Mel		Ott		2	3	3	4	6	45
Mike		Schmidt		1	3	3	4	10	44
Albert		Pujols		2	2	3	3	5	38
Hank		Greenberg	2	2	1	4	2	31
Joe		Jackson		1	0	2	5	4	25
Dan		Brouthers	2	1	3	0	1	24
Alex		Rodriguez	0	1	3	1	1	16
Tony		Gwynn		0	1	0	1	1	7
Eddie		Collins		0	0	0	2	2	6
George		Brett		0	0	1	1	0	5
Mark		McGwire		1	0	0	0	0	5
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	0	0	3
Johnny		Mize		0	0	0	0	3	3
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	3	3
Ed		Delahanty	0	0	0	1	0	2
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	1	0	2
Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	0	2	2
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	1	0	2
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
Oscar		Charleston	0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 19.

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Mel		Ott		3	2	6	2	7	52
Mike		Schmidt		3	2	1	7	8	48
Albert		Pujols		2	3	3	4	5	44
Hank		Greenberg	2	2	3	2	3	34
Joe		Jackson		1	0	3	6	7	33
Dan		Brouthers	2	2	2	0	1	25
Alex		Rodriguez	0	3	1	1	2	19
Eddie		Collins		1	0	1	2	1	13
Tony		Gwynn		0	1	0	2	0	8
George		Brett		0	0	2	0	1	7
Sam		Crawford	1	0	0	0	0	5
Mark		McGwire		1	0	0	0	0	5
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	2	1	5
Harry		Heilmann	0	1	0	0	0	4
Rickey		Henderson	0	1	0	0	0	4
Johnny		Mize		0	0	0	0	3	3
Ed		Delahanty	0	0	0	1	0	2
Joe		Morgan		0	0	0	1	0	2
Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	0	2	2
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	1	0	2
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
Oscar		Charleston	0	0	0	0	1	1
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Pete		Rose		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 20.

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Albert		Pujols		3	3	4	2	6	49
Mike		Schmidt		1	3	3	5	10	46
Joe		Jackson		1	0	3	9	5	37
Hank		Greenberg	2	2	3	3	2	35
Dan		Brouthers	2	3	1	0	1	26
Alex		Rodriguez	0	3	1	3	2	23
Eddie		Collins		1	1	1	2	0	16
Tony		Gwynn		0	0	1	2	0	7
George		Brett		0	0	1	1	1	6
Mark		McGwire		1	0	0	0	1	6
Johnny		Mize		0	0	0	0	5	5
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
Rickey		Henderson	0	1	0	0	0	4
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	1	2	4
Ed		Delahanty	0	0	1	0	0	3
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	0	0	3
Joe		Morgan		0	0	1	0	0	3
Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	0	2	2
Pete		Rose		0	0	0	1	0	2
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	1	0	2
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
Oscar		Charleston	0	0	0	0	1	1
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 21.

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Mike		Schmidt		1	4	2	5	13	50
Joe		Jackson		1	1	5	5	6	40
Hank		Greenberg	2	3	2	4	2	38
Dan		Brouthers	4	1	1	0	2	29
Alex		Rodriguez	1	1	4	3	2	29
Eddie		Collins		1	1	2	1	0	17
Tony		Gwynn		0	0	1	2	0	7
Johnny		Mize		0	0	0	2	3	7
George		Brett		0	0	1	1	1	6
Mark		McGwire		0	1	0	1	0	6
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
Ed		Delahanty	0	1	0	0	0	4
Rickey		Henderson	0	1	0	0	0	4
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	0	0	3
Joe		Morgan		0	0	1	0	0	3
Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	0	3	3
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	3	3
Oscar		Charleston	0	0	0	0	2	2
Pete		Rose		0	0	0	1	0	2
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	1	0	2
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 22.

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Joe		Jackson		1	3	3	5	6	42
Hank		Greenberg	2	2	4	4	1	39
Alex		Rodriguez	2	1	4	2	4	34
Dan		Brouthers	4	0	1	1	2	27
Eddie		Collins		1	1	2	0	1	16
Johnny		Mize		0	0	0	2	5	9
Tony		Gwynn		0	0	1	2	0	7
Mark		McGwire		0	1	0	1	0	6
George		Brett		0	0	0	2	1	5
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
Ed		Delahanty	0	1	0	0	0	4
Rickey		Henderson	0	1	0	0	0	4
Joe		Morgan		0	0	1	0	1	4
Oscar		Charleston	0	0	0	1	1	3
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	0	0	3
Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	0	3	3
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	3	3
Pete		Rose		0	0	0	1	0	2
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	1	0	2
Jeff		Bagwell		0	0	0	0	1	1
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Manny		Ramirez		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 23.

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Alex		Rodriguez	3	3	3	2	3	43
Hank		Greenberg	1	4	2	5	2	39
Dan		Brouthers	3	2	3	2	2	38
Eddie		Collins		1	1	2	1	1	18
Johnny		Mize		0	1	0	3	4	14
Tony		Gwynn		0	0	1	3	0	9
Mark		McGwire		0	1	1	0	0	7
Jeff		Bagwell		0	0	1	1	0	5
Ed		Delahanty	0	1	0	0	1	5
George		Brett		0	0	0	1	2	4
Oscar		Charleston	0	0	1	0	1	4
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
Rickey		Henderson	0	1	0	0	0	4
Joe		Morgan		0	0	1	0	1	4
Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	1	2	4
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	0	0	3
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	3	3
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	0	2	2
Manny		Ramirez		0	0	0	0	2	2
Pete		Rose		0	0	0	1	0	2
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Eddie		Mathews		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 24.

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Hank		Greenberg	2	2	3	5	2	39
Dan		Brouthers	3	0	3	4	1	33
Eddie		Collins		1	1	1	1	4	18
Johnny		Mize		1	0	1	3	4	18
Tony		Gwynn		0	0	2	2	0	10
Oscar		Charleston	0	1	0	0	2	6
Jeff		Bagwell		0	1	1	0	0	7
Mark		McGwire		0	1	1	0	0	7
Ed		Delahanty	0	1	0	0	1	5
Mike		Piazza		0	0	1	0	2	5
George		Brett		0	0	0	1	2	4
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
Rickey		Henderson	0	1	0	0	0	4
Eddie		Mathews		0	0	1	0	1	4
Joe		Morgan		0	0	1	0	1	4
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	1	1	3
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	0	0	3
Manny		Ramirez		0	0	0	1	1	3
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	3	3
Pete		Rose		0	0	0	1	0	2
Cap		Anson		0	0	0	0	1	1
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
Roger		Connor		0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Edgar		Martinez	0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 25.

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Dan		Brouthers	3	0	2	5	1	32
Johnny		Mize		1	1	1	2	4	20
Eddie		Collins		1	0	2	3	2	19
Tony		Gwynn		0	1	1	2	0	11
Jeff		Bagwell		0	2	0	0	0	8
Oscar		Charleston	1	0	0	0	2	7
Ed		Delahanty	0	1	0	0	3	7
Mike		Piazza		0	0	1	1	2	7
Mark		McGwire		0	1	0	1	0	6
George		Brett		0	0	0	1	2	4
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	0	1	4
Rickey		Henderson	0	1	0	0	0	4
Eddie		Mathews		0	0	1	0	1	4
Joe		Morgan		0	0	1	0	1	4
Roger		Connor		0	0	1	0	0	3
Manny		Ramirez		0	0	0	1	1	3
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	3	3
Pete		Rose		0	0	0	1	0	2
Cap		Anson		0	0	0	0	1	1
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Edgar		Martinez	0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 26.

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Johnny		Mize		2	2	0	2	4	26
Eddie		Collins		1	0	3	2	3	21
Tony		Gwynn		0	1	1	2	1	12
Mike		Piazza		1	0	2	0	1	12
Jeff		Bagwell		1	1	0	1	0	11
Ed		Delahanty	0	1	0	2	2	10
Oscar		Charleston	1	0	0	1	1	8
Mark		McGwire		0	1	0	1	0	6
George		Brett		0	0	0	1	3	5
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	1	5
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	1	0	5
Roger		Connor		0	1	0	0	0	4
Rickey		Henderson	0	1	0	0	0	4
Eddie		Mathews		0	0	1	0	1	4
Joe		Morgan		0	0	1	0	1	4
Manny		Ramirez		0	0	0	1	1	3
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	3	3
Pete		Rose		0	0	0	1	0	2
Cap		Anson		0	0	0	0	1	1
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Edgar		Martinez	0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 27.

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Eddie		Collins		1	2	1	4	2	26
Mike		Piazza		2	1	2	0	1	21
Tony		Gwynn		1	1	1	3	1	19
Jeff		Bagwell		2	0	1	0	1	14
Manny		Ramirez		0	2	1	1	1	14
Ed		Delahanty	0	0	2	2	2	12
Oscar		Charleston	1	1	0	0	1	10
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	2	1	0	8
George		Brett		0	0	0	2	2	6
Mark		McGwire		0	1	0	1	0	6
Roger		Connor		1	0	0	0	0	5
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	1	5
Rickey		Henderson	0	1	0	0	0	4
Joe		Morgan		0	0	1	0	1	4
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	3	3
Eddie		Mathews		0	0	0	1	1	3
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	3	3
Jim		Thome		0	0	1	0	0	3
Pete		Rose		0	0	0	1	0	2
Cap		Anson		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Edgar		Martinez	0	0	0	0	1	1
Gary		Sheffield	0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	0	1	1
Round 28

	Code:
	FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Ed		Delahanty	2	1	2	1	2	24
Mike		Piazza		2	2	1	0	1	23
Tony		Gwynn		1	1	2	2	1	20
Manny		Ramirez		0	2	1	1	2	15
Jeff		Bagwell		2	0	1	0	1	14
Oscar		Charleston	1	1	0	1	1	12
George		Brett		0	0	0	2	4	8
Harry		Heilmann	0	0	2	1	0	8
Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	1	0	6
Mark		McGwire		0	1	0	1	0	6
Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	2	1	5
Rickey		Henderson	1	0	0	0	0	5
Joe		Morgan		0	1	0	0	1	5
Dick		Allen		0	1	0	0	0	4
Eddie		Mathews		0	0	0	2	0	4
Roger		Connor		0	0	1	0	0	3
Pete		Rose		0	0	1	0	0	3
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	3	3
Jim		Thome		0	0	1	0	0	3
Cap		Anson		0	0	0	0	2	2
Gary		Sheffield	0	0	0	1	0	2
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Edgar		Martinez	0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	0	1	1
Carl		Yastrzemski	0	0	0	0	1	1

Code:

FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Mike		Piazza		5	1	2	1	1	38
Tony		Gwynn		0	3	2	4	0	26
Manny		Ramirez		1	2	2	1	3	24
Jeff		Bagwell		2	1	2	1	1	23
George		Brett		0	0	2	2	4	14
Oscar		Charleston	1	1	0	1	2	13
Harry		Heilmann	0	1	2	1	0	12
Cap		Anson		0	1	0	1	1	7
Wade		Boggs		0	0	1	1	2	7
Sam		Crawford	0	1	1	0	0	7
Rickey		Henderson	1	0	0	1	0	7
Mark		McGwire		0	1	0	1	1	7
Joe		Morgan		0	1	0	0	1	5
Dick		Allen		0	1	0	0	0	4
Vladimir	Guerrero	0	1	0	0	0	4
Eddie		Mathews		0	0	0	2	0	4
Roger		Connor		0	0	1	0	0	3
Pete		Rose		0	0	1	0	0	3
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	3	3
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	0	2	2
Gary		Sheffield	0	0	0	1	0	2
Roberto		Clemente	0	0	0	0	1	1
Chipper		Jones		0	0	0	0	1	1
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Edgar		Martinez	0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Jim		Thome		0	0	0	0	1	1
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	0	1	1
Carl		Yastrzemski	0	0	0	0	1	1

**Bill Burgess** · 06-10-2012, 07:33 AM

Reference Resources:

Relative SLG. Ave. is the 1st number, and serves as presumption unless I note mitigating factors.

1. Babe Ruth - 172.5 - 13 SLG. titles - 10,504 PA - 207 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 303. Need I say more? Nuff said.

2. Ted Williams - 154.9 - 9 SLG. titles - 9786 PA - 185 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 220. Takes 2nd nicely. Missing war yrs.? Offset by Babe's "missing pitching yrs."

3. Ty Cobb - 141.4 - 8 SLG. titles - 12,777 PA- 167 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 159. Ranks above others with higher SLG. AVE., due to more titles, over a much longer career, higher PA, extended decline phase. Differences in PA with Hornsby equals 7 full seasons of decline.

4. Rogers Hornsby - 147.3. - 9 titles - 9259 PA - 175 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 203. High SLG. Ave./titles earn high ranking.

5. Lou Gehrig - 154.0 - 2 SLG. titles - 9954 PA - 179 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 230. Ave. held up well, of course due to lack of decline phase, hence low PA. Only won 2 titles.

6. Barry Bonds - 148.0 - 7 SLG. titles - 12,606 PA - 182 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 213. I had him ranked 2nd, but his admitted steroid usage drops him IMHO. Had too great an advantage over his peers.

7. Honus Wagner - 132.9 - 6 SLG. Titles - 11,731 PA - 150 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 167

8. Willie Mays - 139.2 - 5 SLG. titles - 12,480 PA - 156 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 186.

9. Mickey Mantle - 143.8 - 4 SLG. titles - 9895 PA - 172 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 198. Too few titles over relatively weak sluggers.

10. Hank Aaron - 140.6 - 4 SLG. titles - 13,919 PA - 155 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 187. Too few titles over long career.

11. Jimmy Foxx - 143.7 - 5 SLG. titles - 9,599 PA - 163 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 214. Too few PA relative to Aaron/Mays.

12. Joe Jackson - 1.45.2 - 1 SLG. title - 5690 PA - 170 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 187. Too few PA to rank higher - Placed in top 5 SLG. all his 9 yrs.; 2nd 3 times, once 3rd, 2 4ths, 2 5ths.

13. Stan Musial- 137.1 - 6 SLG. Titles - 12,712 PA - 159 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 168.

14. Tris Speaker - 134.3 - 1 SLG. Title - 11,988 PA - 158 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 163.

15. Nap Lajoie - 133.9 - 4 SLG. Titles - 10,460 PA - 150 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 159

16. Mike Schmidt - 133.6 - 5 SLG. Titles - 10, 062 PA - 147 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 205.

17. Hank Greenberg - 1.44.3 - 1 SLG. Title - 6,096 - 158 OPS+. Lost 4.5 seasons to WWII. Age 30-34. Out of game by age 36 spared him his decline phase.

18. Joe DiMaggio - 142.9 - 2 SLG. Titles - 7,671 PA - 155 OPS+. His numbers appear worse due to Yankee Stadium, but better due to lack of decline phase. Lost 3 prime seasons to WWII.

19. Dan Brouthers - 1.40.6 - 7 SLG. Titles - 7,658 PA - 170 OPS+. Too few PA to rank higher.

20. Ed Delahanty - 1.33.5 - 5 SLB. Titles - 8,389 PA - 152 OPS+. Too few PA to rank higher.

Sluggers such as Greenberg, McGwire, DiMaggio, Mize and Brouthers all had PA fewer than 7,700. Honorable Mentions to Richie Allen, Frank Thomas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Code:

My Candidates for Most Impressive Hitting Peak Ever:

1. Barry Bonds - 2001-2004,---------244 OPS+

2. Babe Ruth - 1920-1924,-----------221 OPS+

3. Ted Williams - 1942-1949,--------209 OPS+

4. Rogers Hornsby - 1921-1925,------202 OPS+

5. Ty Cobb - 1909-1913,-------------197 OPS+

6. Lou Gehrig - 1927-1934,----------193 OPS+

7. Mickey Mantle - 1956-1962,-------191 OPS+

8. Honus Wagner - 1905-1909,--------187 OPS+

9. Stan Musial - 1943-1948,---------174 OPS+
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Win Shares:
as compiled by Chris (538280)

Wagner 1905-1909: 237
Ruth 1920-1924: 233
Bonds 2000-2004: 227
Williams 1941-1949: 220
Cobb 1909-1913: 207
Mantle 1956-1960: 205
Morgan 1972-1976: 197
Gehrig 1927-1931: 193
Musial 1943-1948: 192 
Hornsby 1921-1925: 188

WARP3-this has a LQ adjustment and it adjusted for the 162 game vs. 154 game schedule in case you don't know

Bonds 2000-2004: 71.7
Ruth 1920-1924: 71.5
Williams: 1941-1948: 69.0
Morgan 1972-1976: 66.3
Hornsby 1921-1925: 63.6
Wagner 1905-1909: 62.8
Musial 1943-1948: 61.3
Mantle 1956-1960: 61.1
Gehrig 1927-1931: 57.3
Cobb 1909-1913: 54.4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Relative Stats: courtesy of David Kent:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rel Rel Through 2003, over 5,000 PA, indexed and park adjusted.

Code:

Pro+  OBA  Slg                                      Rel     Rel
Rank Rank Rank  Player               PA    Pro+     OBA     Slg
----------------------------------------------------------------

  1    2    1   Babe Ruth          10504   207.0   134.5   172.5 
  2    1    2   Ted Williams        9786   189.5   134.6   154.9
  3   11    3   Lou Gehrig          9554   180.4   126.4   154.0
  4    3    4   Barry Bonds        10963   180.0   131.6   148.4
  5    8    5   Rogers Hornsby      9259   174.7   127.4   147.3
  8   16    6   Joe Jackson         5559   168.7   123.9   144.8
 16  102    7   Hank Greenberg      6061   157.3   113.5   143.9
  6    5    8   Mickey Mantle       9895   172.1   128.3   143.8
 11   40    9   Mark McGwire        7657   162.8   119.0   143.8
 13   43   10   Jimmie Foxx         9599   161.6   117.9   143.7
 21  122   11   Joe DiMaggio        7657   155.6   112.7   142.9
 17   78   12   Johnny Mize         7351   157.0   114.9   142.1
  7    4   13   Dan Brouthers       7656   170.9   129.4   141.4
  9   10   14   Ty Cobb            12777   168.4   127.0   141.4
 22   83   15   Hank Aaron         13919   155.2   114.6   140.6
 18   54   16   Dick Allen          7295   156.7   116.8   140.0
 20   53   17   Willie Mays        12480   156.0   116.8   139.2
 25   52   18   Mike Piazza         6007   154.7   117.0   137.7
 14   24   19   Stan Musial        12677   158.2   121.1   137.1
 38  192   20   Willie Stargell     9017   147.1   110.0   137.1
 19   36   21   Manny Ramirez       5910   156.5   119.8   136.7
 26   41   22   Frank Robinson     11726   154.0   118.5   135.5
 12    9   23   Frank Thomas        8167   162.6   127.3   135.3
 10    6   24   Pete Browning       5315   163.2   128.0   135.3
 15   18   25   Tris Speaker       11679   157.4   123.0   134.3
 23   25   26   Mel Ott            11228   155.0   120.9   134.1
 48  215   27   Albert Belle        6669   142.9   108.9   134.0
 33   60   28   Nap Lajoie         10239   150.0   116.1   133.9
 35   86   29   Ralph Kiner         6247   148.0   114.4   133.7
 40  111   30   Mike Schmidt       10046   146.8   113.2   133.6
 41  131   31   Sam Thompson        6497   145.4   111.9   133.5
 29   42   32   Ed Delahanty        8340   151.5   118.1   133.4
 42  159   33   Ken Griffey Jr.     8161   144.0   110.9   133.1
 32   48   34   Honus Wagner       11518   150.4   117.6   132.9
 36   77   35   Willie McCovey      9681   147.7   114.9   132.9
 43  153   36   Alex Rodriguez      5671   143.9   111.1   132.7
 24   21   37   Roger Connor        8834   154.9   122.2   132.6
 46  158   38   Sam Crawford       10353   143.5   110.9   132.5
 93  514   39   Juan Gonzalez       7014   133.3   100.8   132.5
 49  163   40   Frank Howard        7346   142.8   110.7   132.2
 57  226   41   Jeff Heath          5540   140.4   108.6   131.8
 64  272   42   Wally Berger        5636   138.8   107.2   131.6
 39   66   43   Harry Heilmann      8683   147.0   115.7   131.2
 30   35   44   Jim Thome           6420   150.9   119.8   131.0
 27   20   45   Jeff Bagwell        8626   153.4   122.3   131.0
 44  118   46   Hack Wilson         5454   143.7   112.8   130.9
 50  125   47   Harry Stovey        6832   142.8   112.5   130.3
 58  165   48   Babe Herman         6134   140.2   110.6   129.6
 66  205   49   Darryl Strawberry   6325   138.6   109.3   129.3
102  419   50   Sammy Sosa          8462   132.4   103.1   129.3



      Rel  Rel
Pro+  OBA  Slg                                      Rel     Rel
Rank Rank Rank  Player               PA    Pro+     OBA     Slg
----------------------------------------------------------------
  2    1    2   Ted Williams        9786   189.5   134.6   154.9
  1    2    1   Babe Ruth          10504   207.0   134.5   172.5
  4    3    4   Barry Bonds        10963   180.0   131.6   148.4
  7    4   13   Dan Brouthers       7656   170.9   129.4   141.4
  6    5    8   Mickey Mantle       9895   172.1   128.3   143.8
 10    6   24   Pete Browning       5315   163.2   128.0   135.3
 59    7  267   Billy Hamilton      7544   140.0   127.6   112.4
  5    8    5   Rogers Hornsby      9259   174.7   127.4   147.3
 12    9   23   Frank Thomas        8167   162.6   127.3   135.3
  9   10   14   Ty Cobb            12777   168.4   127.0   141.4
  3   11    3   Lou Gehrig          9554   180.4   126.4   154.0
192   12  582   Roy Thomas          6409   123.6   126.3    97.3
 31   13   74   Edgar Martinez      8113   150.7   125.7   125.1
 52   14  156   Eddie Collins      11525   142.4   124.4   118.1
 28   15   53   Jason Giambi        5460   152.7   123.9   128.8
  8   16    6   Joe Jackson         5559   168.7   123.9   144.8
140   17  420   Rickey Henderson   13316   128.6   123.4   105.2
 15   18   25   Tris Speaker       11679   157.4   123.0   134.3
126   19  372   Wade Boggs         10711   130.0   123.0   107.0
 27   20   45   Jeff Bagwell        8626   153.4   122.3   131.0
 24   21   37   Roger Connor        8834   154.9   122.2   132.6
 82   22  246   George Gore         6104   135.0   122.0   113.1
 76   23  208   Gene Tenace         5504   136.3   121.2   115.0
 14   24   19   Stan Musial        12677   158.2   121.1   137.1
 23   25   26   Mel Ott            11228   155.0   120.9   134.1
232   26  531   Mike Hargrove       6649   121.0   120.8   100.2
105   27  285   Joe Morgan         11278   132.1   120.5   111.6
 34   28   54   Elmer Flick         6293   149.2   120.5   128.7
 56   29  118   Cap Anson          11292   140.9   120.4   120.5
 60   30  137   Jesse Burkett       9525   139.5   120.3   119.2
 37   31   60   Gary Sheffield      8026   147.5   120.1   127.4
419   32  705   Eddie Stanky        5332   109.0   120.0    88.9
143   33  351   Topsy Hartsel       5697   127.9   119.9   108.0
120   34  300   Rod Carew          10422   131.0   119.9   111.1
 30   35   44   Jim Thome           6420   150.9   119.8   131.0
 19   36   21   Manny Ramirez       5910   156.5   119.8   136.7
103   37  260   John Olerud         8360   132.3   119.6   112.7
 81   38  194   Arky Vaughan        7605   135.4   119.5   115.9
107   39  254   Ken Singleton       8529   132.1   119.2   112.9
 11   40    9   Mark McGwire        7657   162.8   119.0   143.8
 26   41   22   Frank Robinson     11726   154.0   118.5   135.5
 29   42   32   Ed Delahanty        8340   151.5   118.1   133.4
 13   43   10   Jimmie Foxx         9599   161.6   117.9   143.7
 99   44  209   Tony Gwynn         10187   132.6   117.8   114.8
 47   45   71   Chipper Jones       6064   143.2   117.8   125.4
388   46  649   Richie Ashburn      9624   110.9   117.8    93.1
111   47  226   Jackie Robinson     5698   131.7   117.7   114.0
 32   48   34   Honus Wagner       11518   150.4   117.6   132.9
167   49  345   Roger Bresnahan     5262   126.0   117.5   108.5
118   50  229   Ross Youngs         5214   131.3   117.4   113.9

__________________
Dave Kent

Code:

Relative BA, after 2005:

BA+   Player (thru '05) baseball-reference.com
Currently active players are high-lighted in RED.

1. 134.8 Cobb      CF
2. 133.1 JJackson
3. 130.8 Browning
5. 128.1 TWilliams LF
6. 127.8 Dan Brouthers 
7. 127.7 Gwynn     RF
8. 127.4 Lajoie    2B
9. 127.2 Ichiro
10. 127.0 Carew
11. 126.2 Hornsby
12. 125.4 Speaker
13. 125.3 Pujols
14. 124.4 Tip O'Neill
15. 124.4 Keeler
16. 123.9 Musial    1B
17. 123.7 Boggs     3B
18. 123.6 Donlin
19. 123.1 Wagner    SS
20. 122.8 Anson
21. 122.7 Hamilton
22. 122.6 Delahanty
23. 121.8 ECollins
24. 121.6 Burkett
25. 121.0 Puckett 
26. 120.7 Clemente
27. 120.4 Oliva
28. 120.3 SThompson
29. 119.4 Heilmann
30. 119.2 Ruth
31. 118.9 Sisler
32. 118.8 Crawford 
33. 118.5 KKelly
34. 118.1 Connor
35. 117.9 MoAlou
36. 117.8 Piazza   C
37. 117.8 Medwick
38. 117.8 PWaner
39. 117.7 O'Rourke
40. 117.4 Flick
41. 117.3 BTerry
42. 117.2 Gehrig
43. 117.1 JDiMaggio
44. 117.0 Beaumont
45. 116.9 EMartinez
46. 116.9 Mattingly
47. 116.7 Garr
48. 116.4 Mota
49. 116.3 Brett
50. 116.3 DMitchell
51. 116.2 JMcGraw
52. 116.2 LWalker v
53. 116.0 Aaron 
57. 115.6 Rose 
59. 115.4 Al Simmons
60. 115.4 Frank Baker 

66. 115.0 Mantle 
67. 115.0 Johnny Mize
71. 114.9 Wheat 
82. 114.3 Mays 
75. 114.6 FThomas
90. 113.8 Foxx 
92. 113.8 Roush 
99. 113.4 Frank Robinson

**Bill Burgess** · 06-10-2012, 07:34 AM

My Slate of Candidates for 25th Greatest Hitter:

1. Oscar Charleston
2. Tony Gwynn
3. Sam Crawford
4. Cap Anson
5. Jeff Bagwell

Honorable Mentions:

Manny Ramirez
Harry Heilmann
George Brett
Rickey Henderson
Eddie Mathews

Might I persuade any of you guys to consider voting in our other polls?

68th Greatest Player

35rd Greatest Pitcher

Wagner/Mays?

I would consider it a great favor if you did.

**BigRon** · 06-10-2012, 07:49 AM

Bill, as so often happens, things seem seriously out of whack on the greatest hitters poll. eddie Mathews was elected 28th greatest position player, and that certainly was based mostly on his hitting. He became a respectable third baseman, but was not exceptional. He was a good baserunner, but not one of the best. So, his place is basebd mostly on his hitting.

But, when it comes to the greatest hitters poll, Mathews is barely on the radar. In the 29th greatest hitter vote, he finished 16th! If form holds he'll come in at around number 45- this makes absolutely no sense.

I've been a bit remiss and haven't voted as much as I wanted to recently, but iut would be nice if some degree of logic held here. By any reasonable measure that I can see Mathews should be among the top 30 or so hitters of all time.

**redban** · 06-10-2012, 08:00 AM

Vladimir Guerrero
Eddie Matthews
Tony Gwynn
Harry Heilman
George Brett

Honorable

Larry Walker
Chipper Jones
Pete Rose
Roberto Clemente
Gary Sheffield

**Bill Burgess** · 06-10-2012, 10:23 AM

I understand, BigRon. I just added Eddie to my Honorable Mentions. If more members voted, maybe our elections would look quite different.
With so few people participating, normally 5 or 6, our results will not reflect a really objective listing.

My apologies. What can I do?

**AstrosFan** · 06-10-2012, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by BigRon

Bill, as so often happens, things seem seriously out of whack on the greatest hitters poll. eddie Mathews was elected 28th greatest position player, and that certainly was based mostly on his hitting. He became a respectable third baseman, but was not exceptional. He was a good baserunner, but not one of the best. So, his place is basebd mostly on his hitting.

But, when it comes to the greatest hitters poll, Mathews is barely on the radar. In the 29th greatest hitter vote, he finished 16th! If form holds he'll come in at around number 45- this makes absolutely no sense.

I've been a bit remiss and haven't voted as much as I wanted to recently, but iut would be nice if some degree of logic held here. By any reasonable measure that I can see Mathews should be among the top 30 or so hitters of all time.

That is because the greatest players rounds are much farther along than the greatest hitters. Since I am using a lot of incomplete ballots now, several of which have only one or two votes on them, it is easy for Mathews to lose votes he might get otherwise. And a number of the people voting in these elections are different from those who elected Mathews the 28th greatest position player. Such a mismatch can help cause the contradiction you see.

**fenrir** · 06-10-2012, 12:43 PM

Jeff Bagwell
Manny Ramirez
George Brett
Chipper Jones
Dick Allen

**BigRon** · 06-10-2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by AstrosFan

That is because the greatest players rounds are much farther along than the greatest hitters. Since I am using a lot of incomplete ballots now, several of which have only one or two votes on them, it is easy for Mathews to lose votes he might get otherwise. And a number of the people voting in these elections are different from those who elected Mathews the 28th greatest position player. Such a mismatch can help cause the contradiction you see.

You're right, and I'm aware of that. The very small ballot sizes and different voters certainly have an impact.

But, it's still weird, to say the least. Mathews was elected 28 among position players. Personally, I think he should have been several spots higher. In any case, his value was largely determined by his hitting. To have the 28th greatest position player, known for his bat, to be elected the 40th or so greatest hitter- well, we all know it just doesn't make sense.

And Bill, apparently you aren't that high on Mathews either. By your reckoning he's the 40th greatest hitter ever. Where did you place him as a player?

I'll try to vote on this tomorrow.

**BigRon** · 06-10-2012, 03:30 PM

Okay, I'll vote today.

1. Jeff Bagwell
2. Manny Ramirez
3. Eddie Mathews
4. Oscar Charleston??
5. Mark McGwire

6. Dan Brouthers??
7. Harmon Killebrew
8. George Brett
9. Jim Thome
10. Willie McCovey

**AstrosFan** · 06-10-2012, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by BigRon

You're right, and I'm aware of that. The very small ballot sizes and different voters certainly have an impact.

But, it's still weird, to say the least. Mathews was elected 28 among position players. Personally, I think he should have been several spots higher. In any case, his value was largely determined by his hitting. To have the 28th greatest position player, known for his bat, to be elected the 40th or so greatest hitter- well, we all know it just doesn't make sense.

It makes sense due to context. Small ballots plus unequal voters between the rankings causes these things. It would only be off if individuals were showing the kind of inconsistency you point out. But take the factors that affect this, and combine them into a group ranking, and the disparate rankings for players like Mathews are to be expected.

**BigRon** · 06-10-2012, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by AstrosFan

It makes sense due to context. Small ballots plus unequal voters between the rankings causes these things. It would only be off if individuals were showing the kind of inconsistency you point out. But take the factors that affect this, and combine them into a group ranking, and the disparate rankings for players like Mathews are to be expected.

I don't disagree with you, but it's still unfortunate. Sticking with the Mathews example, what's the real logic of placing him 28th alltime among position players, knowing that he was only an okay fielder- a bit above average, at an average value position- implying- correctly, that his greatness was based on his outstanding hitting: then turning around and saying that, well, he's not even that close to the 28th greatet hitter?

Small number of voters, different voters- I get it. But that doesn't make it "right".

**AstrosFan** · 06-11-2012, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by BigRon

I don't disagree with you, but it's still unfortunate. Sticking with the Mathews example, what's the real logic of placing him 28th alltime among position players, knowing that he was only an okay fielder- a bit above average, at an average value position- implying- correctly, that his greatness was based on his outstanding hitting: then turning around and saying that, well, he's not even that close to the 28th greatet hitter?

Small number of voters, different voters- I get it. But that doesn't make it "right".

That is a different situation than what we are dealing with here. Given that we know the circumstances are almost certain to cause such irregularities, questioning the logic of the rankings is meaningless. It is only right to do so when voters are the same, or at least very close to it. If the same ten people cast the only ballots, all full, in each ranking, we should expect Mathews to rank about the same, due to the reasons you mentioned.

But if the voters are different and the ballots different in completion, then we can't assume anything. Any sense of what is right goes out the window, and it is useless to cling to it. In this situation, which is the one we are dealing with, asking why Mathews ranks 28th as a player, but is nowhere near that as a hitter, is downright silly.

**AstrosFan** · 06-11-2012, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by BigRon

I don't disagree with you, but it's still unfortunate. Sticking with the Mathews example, what's the real logic of placing him 28th alltime among position players, knowing that he was only an okay fielder- a bit above average, at an average value position- implying- correctly, that his greatness was based on his outstanding hitting: then turning around and saying that, well, he's not even that close to the 28th greatet hitter?

Small number of voters, different voters- I get it. But that doesn't make it "right".

That is a different situation than what we are dealing with here. Given that we know the circumstances are almost certain to cause such irregularities, questioning the logic of the rankings is meaningless. It is only right to do so when voters are the same, or at least very close to it. If the same ten people cast the only ballots, all full, in each ranking, we should expect Mathews to rank about the same, due to the reasons you mentioned.

But if the voters are different and the ballots different in completion, then we can't assume anything. Any sense of what is right goes out the window, and it is useless to cling to it. In this situation, which is the one we are dealing with, asking why Mathews ranks 28th as a player, but is nowhere near that as a hitter, is downright silly.

**PVNICK** · 06-11-2012, 09:57 AM

Ron as far as the Matthews issue goes, setting aside the votership question, he is behind several 1B/COF - Frank Thomas, Joe Jackson, Mize, Brouthers and Greenberg all of whom IIRC he is typically ranked above as a player due to career length and/or the value he adds as an 3B.

**PVNICK** · 06-11-2012, 10:01 AM

Harry Heilmann
Eddie Matthews - he can't be ranked by me #2 as 3B and then be behind Brett and Boggs as a hitter when they were all around average defensively.
George Brett
Tony Gwynn
Manny Ramirez

Dick Allen
Oscar Charleston
Roger Connor
Sam Crawford
Wade Boggs

McCovey, Bagwell, Killebrew all should be placed shortly to name a few off the top of my head
+ Edgar

**GiambiJuice** · 06-11-2012, 11:04 AM

Manny Ramirez
Wade Boggs
Chipper Jones
Ken Griffey Jr.
Edgar Martinez

**BigRon** · 06-11-2012, 05:58 PM

Quite a bit of support for Gwynn here. I don't see it. Gwynn was a great hitter, sure, but I don't see him any higher than about 50 or so. He was a tremendous contact hitter, but his power throughout his career was modest and he didn't supplement his offense with a lot of walks. No measurements are perfect, but OPS+ and Offensive Winning Percentage (OWP) are good. Gwynn is nowhere remotely close to the top 30 in either of those categories. OWP, I believe, factors in base stealing, so Gwynn gets extra points there but still is quite a ways down the list. To his credit, he maintained his hittng over a long period of time - lots of PAs, so he gets extra credit there. Nonetheless, I have no problem finding about 50 hitters who I truly believe were better/more valuable than Gwynn.

**Babe is the best** · 06-15-2012, 03:56 PM

1. Manny Ramirez
2. Cap Anson
3. Jeff Bagwell
4. Rickey Henderson
5. Ken Griffey Jr.

**chicagowhitesox1173** · 06-15-2012, 04:33 PM

1. Rickey Henderson
2. Harry Heilmann
3. Eddie Mathews
4. Ken Griffey Jr.
5. Sam Crawford

**3and2Fastball** · 06-26-2012, 10:56 AM

1) Oscar Charleston
2) Rickey Henderson
3) Joe Morgan
4) Willie Wells
5) Jim Thome

**Kalines_Corner** · 06-26-2012, 10:27 PM

1) Dick Allen
2) Manny Ramirez
3) Mark McGwire
4) Jim Thome
5) Edgar Martinez

**Bill Burgess** · 07-10-2012, 06:22 AM

Bumping up.

**AstrosFan** · 07-12-2012, 11:44 AM

Manny wins it handily.

Code:

FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
Manny		Ramirez		2	6	0	1	3	39
Jeff		Bagwell		3	0	2	1	1	24
Tony		Gwynn		0	2	2	5	0	24
Eddie		Mathews		0	2	2	1	2	18
Oscar		Charleston	2	0	0	3	1	17
Harry		Heilmann	1	1	2	1	0	17
Rickey		Henderson	2	1	0	1	0	16
George		Brett		0	0	3	0	6	15
Wade		Boggs		0	1	1	1	2	11
Dick		Allen		1	1	0	0	0	9
Sam		Crawford	0	1	1	0	1	8
Joe		Morgan		0	1	1	0	1	8
Cap		Anson		0	1	0	1	1	7
Mark		McGwire		0	0	2	0	1	7
Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	0	2	2	6
Vladimir	Guerrero	1	0	0	0	0	5
Chipper		Jones		0	0	1	1	0	5
Jim		Thome		0	0	0	1	2	4
Roger		Connor		0	0	1	0	0	3
Edgar		Martinez	0	0	0	0	3	3
Pete		Rose		0	0	1	0	0	3
Gary		Sheffield	0	0	0	1	0	2
Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	2	2
Willie		Wells		0	0	0	1	0	2
Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	0	1	1
Carl		Yastrzemski	0	0	0	0	1	1

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