McCovey/Pujols/Thomas/Bagwell/Votto/Hamilton in the 1920's-30's?

[willshad]

Foxx was known for line drives, like some into the upper deck that blew up seats.

I'm pretty sure Foxx's home runs traveled further then those of Thomas.

[brett]

You can be fast, and still not be a good outfielder...Tim Raines, for example. You can clearly see in videos that Gehrig had well above average speed. He had 10 triples or more 9 times in his career, including one season with 20. Foxx had foot races with his teammates and always came out in front. These guys were not just ballplayers, they were great all around athletes....maybe not in Mantle's class, but not far off either. You have to remember. first base wasn't always the place where you stuck your worst, least mobile fielder.

YS was the greatest triple producing ballpark ever compared to the league. I do remember reading that Foxx ran track at some point and maybe was 10.6 in 100 yards.

[brett]

I'm pretty sure Foxx's home runs traveled further then those of Thomas.

Thomas was known for his right-centerfield power, but they weren't line drives. Your distances may go down if you hit a lot of your home runs to the opposite field.

[brett]

That was also a pretty extreme outlier season for him. Gehrig's OPS+ is about 42 points higher than Mccovey's for his career. He is about as much a better hitter than Mccovey as Mccovey is better than a league average hitter. No amount of 'league quality' can bring Mccovey up to Gehrig's level. If you really believe that, then you must also believe that at least 30 or 40 other hitters since then are also as good as Gehrig. I honestly don't believe there has been a single one at his level, steroids or not.

McCovey also got to platoon significantly which raised his rates, though not from '68-'70. I would not say '69 is an extreme outlier when he went 174, 209, 182 over three consecutive full seasons and had 4 more years over 160.

The best estimate based on actual number of black players added and the average level of production is that the simple act of full integration would cut OPS+ scores by 4 or 5 percent, so Mccovey's 147 would be about 6-7 points higher if we removed all of the players who would have been banned, but he also got to play through expansion periods so 6-7 points is the maximum boost to about 154. If the average player produced the same relative isolated power and walks during Gehrig's time as they did after full integration, Gehrig's OPS+ would have been cut by about 15-16 points to 163 or 164. I think this is a little too much of a deduction because players in Gehrig's time produced more of their value from batting average anyway, so about half of this, or 7-8 points may be right, and its in the ballpark of the 6-7 point integration estimate. Gehrig 172 to McCovey 147 or Gehrig 179 to McCovey 154 sounds about right on equal settings, but 179 to 147 is not really twice as much better than the league anyway. Its only 168% as much better.

[HitchedtoaSpark]

I don't buy that Gehrig and Foxx were VERY fast. If Foxx and Gehrig were VERY fast why didn't they play the outfield? When John McGraw first saw Gehrig he wasn't that impressed of Gehrig's defensive skills.

Gehrig had better than average footspeed. (He favorite off-season pastime was speed skating.) He was quite clumsy when he first arrived in the majors, though, which is probably what relegated him to first base.

Foxx was real burner. He is recorded as posting a personal best of 8.6 seconds in the 80-yard dash at the age of 14. A year later, he was clocked at 10.6 secs. in the 100-yard and 23 secs. in the 220-yard. (At an undetermined date, he is alleged to have been clocked at 10 seconds flat in the 100-yard.) Bill Werber, often claimed as the fastest ballplayer in his day (he once stole seven bases in a single minor league game), tells the story of how he once lined up to race against other baseball speedsters of his day, such as Ben Chapman, Jake Powell, and Meryl Hoag, only to have Foxx beat them all.

[bluesky5]

Hamilton would probably fit right in back then. He wouldn't be doing drugs. As far as I know they really didn't have street drugs.

Josh Gibson found them.