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Thread: Youth Phenoms

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-mac View Post
    I see a lot of big slow kids that can mash a baseball. Their lack of speed will kill them as they get older. I'm talking about some of the kids that are good, solely because they are bigger than everyone else. There is only room for one 1st baseman.
    Colleges don't recruit first basemen unless they're expected to develop into big time stud mashers. In college DH and first is where hitters without positions are placed. A friend's son was an All Amereican shortstop for two years before being drafted. His freshman year he played first since the team had a senior shortstop. When he was done playing first the team alternated two catchers at first who were top hitters.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-mac View Post
    fwiw, the kids mom ran track in college and the dad played football in college. Both are tall and the dad is a big strong guy.

    Your last paragraph is really what I was looking for. The kid could end up the next Josh Hamilton or the next preteen superstar never to be heard from again. I'm just curious how everyone would handle a kid like this.

    I have a friend whose daughter is 11 and she is a high level gymnast. They are looking at moving to Texas or Colorado so their daughter can train. I guess it's apples and oranges since the lifecycle of a gymnast is so short, but it amazes me how insane girls sports are compared to boys sports. This girl has trained 20+ hours per week since she was 6 or 7.
    Girls sports are different. Because they physically mature earlier they are protectable at an earlier age. My daughter verballed for softball early in her junior year. If a girl waits until summer after junior year to pursue D1 softball there may not be any roster spots left. In gymnastics the career is from fifteen to twenty-two.

    Since the kid pitcher has former athletes for parents hopefully they have perspective and aren't looking to fulfill failed dreams. The kid has something big in his favor. He chose parents from the right gene pool.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by tg643 View Post
    Colleges don't recruit first basemen unless they're expected to develop into big time stud mashers. In college DH and first is where hitters without positions are placed. A friend's son was an All Amereican shortstop for two years before being drafted. His freshman year he played first since the team had a senior shortstop. When he was done playing first the team alternated two catchers at first who were top hitters.
    We are finding this to be true. Mine was at 3B in 10th grade, you go to a Scorpions tryout there are 5-6 kids throwing 90+ across the infield. I told him well switch to 1B you are as big as many of those kids, you'll look more athletic over there, and throwing below 90 won't matter. It got him on a showcase team, but it's taking longer to find the right college than some other kids who didn't have nearly the stick. On the other hand a MI with so-so stick but 88+ infield arm and sub 7.0 60, just plain looks more athletic no matter how you slice and dice it.

    So you guys with younger kids make sure and work in some other positions. My kid can hit and will land somewhere, but here in Fla, it will be most likely D2 or NAIA if he wants to play next level. Still pretty good brand of baseball at that level down here, but very little interest from some of the D1s out of state that I have watched in person. This was a bit of a head-scratcher until I realized what TG said about 1B is absolutely true. 1B is the last position recruited, if at all, and likely lowest amount of $$$ but, you can of course alter that with production once you get there.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by d-mac View Post
    It listed him at 22 innings for the season. Control issues are the biggest reason for the lack of innings though. When we faced him, he K'd the first batter and then walked the next 5 and was pulled. Our kids couldn't even see the ball. In the kid's defense, the umpire couldn't pick up the ball either and he had quite a few strikes that were called balls. His future may not even be on the mound, it may be in CF. I see a lot of kids that are good now, that you can tell don't project very well as they get older. This kid seems like he should just get better and better. He has the build. Lanky, strong, fast, with an arm.
    This tells me that the kids is being coached to throw hard so he can be labeled as a phenom.

    If he was my son I would tell him that control is the key at 10 y.o. and as he develops the speed will catch up.

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by tg643 View Post
    These are things we dont know about the big picture. Is this an early developing kid with a 5'8" father? We had a dominant kid like this in a nearby LL who grew an inch after LL. His 75 mph LL fastball peaked at 78 in high school JV ball.

    I've been through this with my son. He was a Hoop Scoop Top 10 10U point guard in basketball. I thought is was absurd any magazine ranked ten year olds. My son was asked to play on one of the top AAU teams in the country. He would have been the only white kid in an otherwise all black team from the ghetto. The coach told me my kid was the quickest player ithe court. I liked the coach and kids. They were rivals we played in every tournament championship. But I wasn't going to allow my kid to get at caught up in one sport at ten. We approached basketball each year as business as usual until he stopped playing in high school when baseball and soccer became time consuming (son was also a college soccer prospect).

    If this was my kid I would get him periodic pitching lessons so he doesn't hurt his arm. He would keep playing other sports. He would continue playing baseball with the same kids. At 13U i would look at the best travel experience in the area. If he's still a stud at fifteen he could tryout for the 16U national team. What I would not allow is a travel coach to use and abuse his arm as a meal ticket to tournament glory.

    well height is important but not everything. there are plenty of 6"4 guys who throw 87 and then there is tim collins who is 5"7 and throws 95. lincecum is 5"11 and kimbrel who throws upper 90s is also like that.

    the most important thing is really how explosive you are (fast twitch muscles or whatever that means). height is only part of what power is.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  6. #81
    To Dom's point, 5 of the top 10 hardest throwers in the majors are 6' or below (and usually a pitcher listed at 6' in the majors is probably more like 5'10"):
    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...rdest-thrower/

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-mac View Post
    I have mentioned a 10 year old in our area that is off the charts in just about every category. Here is a small blurb about him.

    http://www.sequoyahcountytimes.com/s...a4bcf6878.html

    Now here is my question. If you were the parent of a kid that can throw 70+ at 10 years old, how would you handle the situation? Would you put him on a national team, would you play league and hire a pitching coach, would you just let him develop naturally, etc.? Just curious of everyone's thoughts.
    My oldest was clocked throwing 69 mph when he was 10. At the state LL 9/10 all-star tournament he threw two no-hitters. We never signed him up for any elite teams. He played LL in the Spring and on travel teams with his friends in Fall. We kept a watch on how much he was pitched. Despite our efforts he still had issues with an irritated growth plate due to how hard he threw. We shut down his pitching at age 12, and he did band exercises regularly. He's just starting to pitch again as a Freshman. He currently throws mid-80s and he's far from done growing according to the doctor. (he's 6'3", but weighs only 150). We still keep an eye on his shoulder to make sure the issues don't come back. The orthopedic doctor said the good news is that once the growth plate is closed, his shoulder looks great. I don't see any reason to make a big deal out of a 10-year-old. I've learned it's a long journey.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    well height is important but not everything. there are plenty of 6"4 guys who throw 87 and then there is tim collins who is 5"7 and throws 95. lincecum is 5"11 and kimbrel who throws upper 90s is also like that.

    the most important thing is really how explosive you are (fast twitch muscles or whatever that means). height is only part of what power is.
    The point I was trying to make is many preteen early bloomers grow up to be not so big duds. I didn't say there are shorter players who aren't successful.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcloven View Post
    To Dom's point, 5 of the top 10 hardest throwers in the majors are 6' or below (and usually a pitcher listed at 6' in the majors is probably more like 5'10"):
    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...rdest-thrower/
    This is getting way off point (see last post). But do the research on the number of 6'1" and taller MLB pitchers versus 6' and below. It's not even close.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by azmatsfan View Post
    My oldest was clocked throwing 69 mph when he was 10. At the state LL 9/10 all-star tournament he threw two no-hitters. We never signed him up for any elite teams. He played LL in the Spring and on travel teams with his friends in Fall. We kept a watch on how much he was pitched. Despite our efforts he still had issues with an irritated growth plate due to how hard he threw. We shut down his pitching at age 12, and he did band exercises regularly. He's just starting to pitch again as a Freshman. He currently throws mid-80s and he's far from done growing according to the doctor. (he's 6'3", but weighs only 150). We still keep an eye on his shoulder to make sure the issues don't come back. The orthopedic doctor said the good news is that once the growth plate is closed, his shoulder looks great. I don't see any reason to make a big deal out of a 10-year-old. I've learned it's a long journey.
    I'll bet your son weighs at least 180 when he graduates. Then in college he'll put on twenty pounds of muscle from the training.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcarnette View Post
    I'm curious. What are some specific things you see about these kids that tell you they don't project very well as the get older?
    Thinking back I would estimate that less than 10% of the young phenoms I have seen in both basketball and baseball continued to develop ahead of their peers into HS. Others simply caught up or they hit their developmental ceiling very young. JMHO
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  12. #87
    72 from a 10yo is amazing. However, it's obvious he's still almost useless as a pitcher because he has no control. That's probably a good thing though, after seeing his picture, I'm agreeing with CO from what we can see. Still, even if he had amazing accuracy, I would use him probably less than my other pitchers. 72mph on a 10yo arm is bad news, IMO. I don't believe, for one second, that he's so far an advanced maturer that his growth plates aren't still open at that age.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayadams View Post
    72 from a 10yo is amazing. However, it's obvious he's still almost useless as a pitcher because he has no control. That's probably a good thing though, after seeing his picture, I'm agreeing with CO from what we can see. Still, even if he had amazing accuracy, I would use him probably less than my other pitchers. 72mph on a 10yo arm is bad news, IMO. I don't believe, for one second, that he's so far an advanced maturer that his growth plates aren't still open at that age.
    No matter how far physically advanced a ten year old might be his growth plates are open and susceptible to serious damage. I saw three local kids have surgery by the time they were twelve because they were "team on my back" studs in 10U. None of them were good enough to play high school ball. When talking about preteen early bloomers we're not talking about men. They are still boys with open growth plates with growing to do even if it's only a couple more inches.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcloven View Post
    To Dom's point, 5 of the top 10 hardest throwers in the majors are 6' or below (and usually a pitcher listed at 6' in the majors is probably more like 5'10"):
    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...rdest-thrower/
    Yep. Bartolo Colon is listed as 5'11". I'm taller than he is, but I'm 5'11", not 6'

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by azmatsfan View Post
    My oldest was clocked throwing 69 mph when he was 10. At the state LL 9/10 all-star tournament he threw two no-hitters. We never signed him up for any elite teams. He played LL in the Spring and on travel teams with his friends in Fall. We kept a watch on how much he was pitched. Despite our efforts he still had issues with an irritated growth plate due to how hard he threw. We shut down his pitching at age 12, and he did band exercises regularly. He's just starting to pitch again as a Freshman. He currently throws mid-80s and he's far from done growing according to the doctor. (he's 6'3", but weighs only 150). We still keep an eye on his shoulder to make sure the issues don't come back. The orthopedic doctor said the good news is that once the growth plate is closed, his shoulder looks great. I don't see any reason to make a big deal out of a 10-year-old. I've learned it's a long journey.
    That is the hard part for us parents, patience.

    I'm impressed you shut down his pitching for a few years. The temptation to have him be seen as a hard thrower can be too much for some.

  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by tg643 View Post
    No matter how far physically advanced a ten year old might be his growth plates are open and susceptible to serious damage. I saw three local kids have surgery by the time they were twelve because they were "team on my back" studs in 10U. None of them were good enough to play high school ball. When talking about preteen early bloomers we're not talking about men. They are still boys with open growth plates with growing to do even if it's only a couple more inches.
    Exactly.

    Kids need to be watched carefully since they are not mature yet to do it themselves.

    Unfortunately some parents ruin their kids because they want the pat on the back for how much of a stud pitcher their kid is.

    My 14 y.o. has just started picking up a baseball after being off since August 1. I'm constantly asking how his arm feels after throwing the ball. He knows to shut it down after the first sign of shoulder or arm pain.

  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by clayadams View Post
    I don't believe, for one second, that he's so far an advanced maturer that his growth plates aren't still open at that age.
    I agree. Also, he looks really big in that picture. He is probably around 5'2", 100-110 lbs, he is far from physically mature.

  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by d-mac View Post
    I agree. Also, he looks really big in that picture. He is probably around 5'2", 100-110 lbs, he is far from physically mature.
    From the picture, I'm guessing he's biologically 13-plus-a-day.

    If your son was a 5-2 105lb. just-turned-13 yr old, who was biologically just-turned-13yo, and he could cruise at 70mph, would you limit his innings ? (let's assume he throws a lot of strikes).

    By "limit his innings", I mean erring on the side of less than those of conservative ASMI-type guidlines.

    (I would.)

    I hope his parents don't read my post, because really it's none of my darned business.
    Last edited by skipper5; 12-08-2012 at 10:41 AM.
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  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-mac View Post
    I agree. Also, he looks really big in that picture. He is probably around 5'2", 100-110 lbs, he is far from physically mature.
    My son was 5'2, 100 when he was thirteen. Now he's 6'2", 190.

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by tg643 View Post
    My son was 5'2, 100 when he was thirteen. Now he's 6'2", 190.
    I understand, but judging from this kids parents, he is on track to be 6'4 220.

  21. #96
    Well the temptation is always there.

    My son is 14 and is 5'-11, 190 lbs with little fat. He's on track to be at least as tall as his brother, 6'-4".

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipper5 View Post
    From the picture, I'm guessing he's biologically 13-plus-a-day.

    If your son was a 5-2 105lb. just-turned-13 yr old, who was biologically just-turned-13yo, and he could cruise at 70mph, would you limit his innings ? (let's assume he throws a lot of strikes).

    By "limit his innings", I mean erring on the side of less than those of conservative ASMI-type guidlines.

    (I would.)

    I hope his parents don't read my post, because really it's none of my darned business.
    My son was his size and threw upper 60's at thirteen. I did limit his innings became he was pitching from 60 feet at that size. I wouldn't limit the kid's innings. But I wouldn't allow a glory hound coach to ride his arm to victory. If he was my kid at ten he would only throw two innings per week and three at eleven. It may be a blessing for this kid's future that he lacks control right now. It keeps him off the mound.

    I wasn't trying to protect my son's arm like it was a commodities future with a payoff. I was protecting his health. He threw 87 his senior year of high school. There were mid majors interested in having him pitch. He wanted to be a position player. He's bigger than high school now. But he hasn't been gunned from the mound in two years.
    Last edited by tg643; 12-08-2012 at 12:04 PM.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-mac View Post
    I have mentioned a 10 year old in our area that is off the charts in just about every category. Here is a small blurb about him.

    http://www.sequoyahcountytimes.com/s...a4bcf6878.html

    Now here is my question. If you were the parent of a kid that can throw 70+ at 10 years old, how would you handle the situation? Would you put him on a national team, would you play league and hire a pitching coach, would you just let him develop naturally, etc.? Just curious of everyone's thoughts.
    Move him to SS and let him just close games. When he is a sophomore or junior in high school, then start pitching him as a starter.

  24. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by HYP View Post
    Move him to SS and let him just close games. When he is a sophomore or junior in high school, then start pitching him as a starter.
    HYP,
    Well stated. I'm with you.
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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by HYP View Post
    Move him to SS and let him just close games. When he is a sophomore or junior in high school, then start pitching him as a starter.
    Great advice!
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