Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 40 of 40

Thread: Paul Konerko: 2000 Games with the White sox

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
    I don't know what you mean by a citation needed but heres a small sample of his first half.

    March 31, 1998,,,, 2 RBI Sox win 9-2
    April 2-17....4 RBI
    April 18,,,,, 2 RBI Sox win 14-7
    April 19-28.....6 RBI
    April 29....4 RBI Sox win 16-7
    Belle's performance in April 1998: .348/.505 -2.03 WPA
    Robin Ventura's performance in APril 1998: .385/.546 -3.28 WPA

    Where's the Ventura criticism? He hit better than Belle, but his hits were even less timely

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    5,381
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    Belle's performance in April 1998: .348/.505 -2.03 WPA
    Robin Ventura's performance in APril 1998: .385/.546 -3.28 WPA

    Where's the Ventura criticism? He hit better than Belle, but his hits were even less timely
    Ventura was a gold glove thirdbaseman who wasn't a clubhouse cancer.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
    Ventura was a gold glove thirdbaseman who wasn't a clubhouse cancer.
    ROFL

    So, all this stuff about Belle not getting big hits, isn't your actual argument.

    Curious, what's your take on Frank Thomas in 1998?

  4. #29
    Double post

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    5,381
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    ROFL

    So, all this stuff about Belle not getting big hits, isn't your actual argument.

    Curious, what's your take on Frank Thomas in 1998?
    It's part of my argument and I showed you how Belle wasn't very productive during the first half. (like you asked) another part of my argument is that Konerko's leadership is huge when trying to build winning teams. Something Belle was clueless about.

    I think Frank Thomas was a great player but when it comes to chemistry, you may as well throw him on the same boat as Belle. He was left off the 2005 WS roster for a reason and that reason was because he was a distraction. I think Frank Thomas was an idiot for campaigning for Belle to play with the Sox in 98 too. That money could have been spent more wisely.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
    It's part of my argument and I showed you how Belle wasn't very productive during the first half. (like you asked)
    I showed that he was more productive offensively than Ventura, who escapes criticism.



    another part of my argument is that Konerko's leadership is huge when trying to build winning teams. Something Belle was clueless about.

    I think Frank Thomas was a great player but when it comes to chemistry, you may as well throw him on the same boat as Belle. He was left off the 2005 WS roster for a reason and that reason was because he was a distraction. I think Frank Thomas was an idiot for campaigning for Belle to play with the Sox in 98 too. That money could have been spent more wisely.
    There's no way to prove or disprove anyone's leadership or cancerousness.

    So I don't think there's any reason to continue this discussion.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    5,381
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    I showed that he was more productive offensively than Ventura, who escapes criticism.




    There's no way to prove or disprove anyone's leadership or cancerousness.

    So I don't think there's any reason to continue this discussion.
    I'm fine with ending the discussion but I will give one example of Konerko's leadership over Belle. A few years ago Konerko was hit in the face and was told to come out of the game, he opted to stay in the game even though he was bloodied from being hit in the face. His next time up to the plate he hits a homerun. Albert Belle never would have done that, his response would be to hold up the game while charging the mound and getting suspended over it.

    Your gonna tell me you can't prove which one is a real leader?
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
    I'm fine with ending the discussion but I will give one example of Konerko's leadership over Belle. A few years ago Konerko was hit in the face and was told to come out of the game, he opted to stay in the game even though he was bloodied from being hit in the face. His next time up to the plate he hits a homerun. Albert Belle never would have done that, his response would be to hold up the game while charging the mound and getting suspended over it.

    Your gonna tell me you can't prove which one is a real leader?
    Yes, I'm going to tell you that.

    Can you provide documentation of the incident you are referring to?
    Can you provide documentation to support your claim in regards to what Albert Belle would have never done

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    Can you provide documentation to support your claim in regards to what Albert Belle would have never done
    Here's at least 1 game in which Belle was hit by a pitch and later hit a home run
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/bo...99304260.shtml

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    5,381
    deleted to wrong type of link.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    5,381
    Deleted due to inserted video
    Last edited by chicagowhitesox1173; 02-08-2013 at 11:58 PM.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    5,381


    There ya go buddy Southside Pride.
    Last edited by chicagowhitesox1173; 02-08-2013 at 11:53 PM.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    An hour from Cooperstown
    Posts
    8,091
    If I was putting together a team, I would take Paul Konerko over a whole roster of Albert Belles. Leadership and clubhouse chemistry are important, and can only be quantified by obsevation over time. There is no stat, traditional or sabermetric that measures them.
    "Only twice in my life has the hair on the back of my neck stood up straight. The first time was when I saw Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel. The second time was when I saw Sandy Koufax's fastball" - Al Campanis.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    981
    Hey Sox fans, what do we think of PK this year? We know he is underperforming, but the question is why? Is he hurt, or is he hurt and old? Last year his bat was still turning around excellent on the super good fastball guys, so he wasn't too old then. Personally I think he is more hurt than old, but what is your opinion?

    I'm sad to say, I don't think he will be back next year. I hope he retires if he isn't coming back (if he isn't forced out) and gets a job in the organization.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    5,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Toledo Inquisition View Post
    Hey Sox fans, what do we think of PK this year? We know he is underperforming, but the question is why? Is he hurt, or is he hurt and old? Last year his bat was still turning around excellent on the super good fastball guys, so he wasn't too old then. Personally I think he is more hurt than old, but what is your opinion?

    I'm sad to say, I don't think he will be back next year. I hope he retires if he isn't coming back (if he isn't forced out) and gets a job in the organization.
    He seems to be hitting better lately. I doubt he'll be back though.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •