Possibility of Jeter using PEDS?

[fenrir]

Manny Ramirez was a first ballot Hall Of Famer prior to 2009.

Right, but we know Manny was at least juicing since 2003 since he tested positive then as well. In order to believe Jeter is a steroid user, you would have to believe he was using prior to this year, because it would make absolutely no sense for him to start using just this one year.

[Evangelion]

Legalize it isn't forcing players to take steroids. If some of the players that starred in the 90's didn't take steroid, they didn't need it either. Take Bonds for example, steroids gave him Ruthian powers, but in the 90's, without them, he was the best player in all of baseball.

Nobody is forced to do anything. Not everyone used in 1998. Well, I want it to be 1998 all over again, only legally.

You both believe if a player on the verge of losing his job due to other players, who are using steroids legally, taking his job. You believe that player would not feel forced to use steroids to give himself that same edge to keep his job?

Yeah, other players might not feel forced, but there would players orce to take them to keep their job to keep up with the rest of the pack that's using.

[NJYankeeFan]

Right, but we know Manny was at least juicing since 2003 since he tested positive then as well. In order to believe Jeter is a steroid user, you would have to believe he was using prior to this year, because it would make absolutely no sense for him to start using just this one year.

Why not mid last year. He is very proud and got sick of the tabloids telling him he was washed up. Just needed something to turn back the clock.

Kind of like when a pitcher goes for TJ surgery to repair a worn out arm. Or a hitter has Lasix to restore once great vision.

Just extending his career.

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[NJYankeeFan]

Not cherry picking, if you want to include those involved with the game, you can do that.
But how do fans and those that go to games share any blame.
I picked that one because it's the only one that makes no sense.
Utter nonsense, that the users used to please the fans.....................not themselves.

Chicks dig rhetorically long ball.

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[White Knight]

Why not mid last year. He is very proud and got sick of the tabloids telling him he was washed up. Just needed something to turn back the clock.

Kind of like when a pitcher goes for TJ surgery to repair a worn out arm. Or a hitter has Lasix to restore once great vision.

Just extending his career.

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You've gone off the deep end with your hatred for him. Give it a rest and admit you want him using and getting caught.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Chicks dig rhetorically long ball.

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So if the fans did not pack the house the players would not have used.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

You both believe if a player on the verge of losing his job due to other players, who are using steroids legally, taking his job. You believe that player would not feel forced to use steroids to give himself that same edge to keep his job?

Yeah, other players might not feel forced, but there would players orce to take them to keep their job to keep up with the rest of the pack that's using.

How does that explain other players not in fear of losing thier job using.
Stop with the phoney excuses, then why doesn't every player use to keep pace.

[Steven Gallanter]

Most of what you say makes sense, but we can't give users some slack because.......they are trying to keep their job... stay at the top of their game. Are we to believe thats why users are using. How about boosting performance and to gain an advantage over clean players, playing by the rule in force. What ever reason they use it is not fair to the clean players.

It may not seem fair to some and may in reality not be fair...........but baseball and football, the game and the fans are two different worlds.

Baseball has alway been about the numbers, stats and history, football not the same.
You can ask some real football fans who holds some records, most have no idea, they really don't care, just looking forward to next weeks game, and nothing wrong with that.

Maris, Aaron, Mac, Barry when chasing records, their chase was not only on the sports channels but even the the national evening news channels, ABC, NBC, CBS and others.

That is the reason steriod use seems to be a bigger deal in baseball.

Back to your earlier words, wanting to do better, get a good contract, come on, not a good enough excuse, rule breaking and never fair to those not using.

QBs, backs and receivers compile stats, lineman don't. Lbs and DBs have occasional interceptions. All players, save AL pitchers who aren't playing inter league games, compile offensive stats.
Football fans weren't bothered when N.E. Patriot Rodney Harrison was caught obtaining steroids. A friend of mine often says, "If you aren't cheating you aren't trying." Corruption is part of football because it is what all concerned want. In baseball there is a continuing debate among fans who have never even used steroids. As many BBF folks know I put little weight on the assumptions of those who don't have personal experience. I also am very aware that steroids get you... high! I remain taken aback that no one seems to think that MLB players like to get high. The well documented use of alcohol and a variety of recreational drugs should serve as evidence that performance is far from the only reason men get juiced. Bars are full of guys who use Deca-Drol for its alleged aphrodisiac qualities. A MLB player looking for love....

[Evangelion]

How does that explain other players not in fear of losing thier job using.
Stop with the phoney excuses, then why doesn't every player use to keep pace.

I don't believe I said all players. There's many motives for why one would use. Greed being one of them.

What "phoney" excuses? Because not every player wants to use drugs? If you legalize the drug, you giving those who have no problem using the drug a free pass while those who don't wish to use will be punished, no?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I don't believe I said all players. There's many motives for why one would use. Greed being one of them.

What "phoney" excuses? Because not every player wants to use drugs? If you legalize the drug, you giving those who have no problem using the drug a free pass while those who don't wish to use will be punished, no?

I don't believe I said that you said they all used. All I meant was why wouldn't all players use to keep pace with the users, not excusable. My point, any who used to keep pace or keep their job are still guilty of using and breaking the rule if using after the rule was in place.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

QBs, backs and receivers compile stats, lineman don't. Lbs and DBs have occasional interceptions. All players, save AL pitchers who aren't playing inter league games, compile offensive stats.
Football fans weren't bothered when N.E. Patriot Rodney Harrison was caught obtaining steroids. A friend of mine often says, "If you aren't cheating you aren't trying." Corruption is part of football because it is what all concerned want. In baseball there is a continuing debate among fans who have never even used steroids. As many BBF folks know I put little weight on the assumptions of those who don't have personal experience. I also am very aware that steroids get you... high! I remain taken aback that no one seems to think that MLB players like to get high. The well documented use of alcohol and a variety of recreational drugs should serve as evidence that performance is far from the only reason men get juiced. Bars are full of guys who use Deca-Drol for its alleged aphrodisiac qualities. A MLB player looking for love....

Tell that to Lance Armstrong, he was really "trying"....... now he has nothing.

[Dude Paskert]

Tell that to Lance Armstrong, he was really "trying"....... now he has nothing.

Well, there are those millions of dollars...

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Well, there are those millions of dollars...

OK we'll excuse users, they did make some money, some of them.

There had to be some users who were making enough to live 10 lifetimes while clean, so why use and raise the possibility of getting caught.

I guess no one thinks they will be caught.............it's always the other guy.Wonder if they ever stopped to think, thats probably what the "other guy" thought................not me.

[Captain Cold Nose]

OK we'll excuse users, they did make some money, some of them.

There had to be some users who were making enough to live 10 lifetimes while clean, so why use and raise the possibility of getting caught.

I guess no one thinks they will be caught.............it's always the other guy.Wonder if they ever stopped to think, thats probably what the "other guy" thought................not me.

No one's using that as an excuse, but just a reason why some use. Fame money glory, etc. The higher the level, the more ruthless it gets to stay there. That goes for athletics, business, a lot more. Understanding motivation is not condoning action.

It's easy to judge people and things from a distance.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

No one's using that as an excuse, but just a reason why some use. Fame money glory, etc. The higher the level, the more ruthless it gets to stay there. That goes for athletics, business, a lot more. Understanding motivation is not condoning action.

It's easy to judge people and things from a distance.

They may not say they use that as an excuse but seem to think thats one motive for them to use and I'm sure some did. Like they may have used but had good reason.

True Cap, easy to judge things from a distance but no matter what our view is on the issue, we're all a good distance away.

I just bottom line it by saying the user chose to use, no matter what the reason, I don't spread the blame any where else.

[NJYankeeFan]

So if the fans did not pack the house the players would not have used.

No. If the fans did not pack the house, the owners would not have paid huge sums of money to guys who can hit massive home runs, and then the guys would not have used.

[White Knight]

This thread is completely off-topic. If there is no more discussion about Skip accusing Jeter, what's the point of it anymore?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

It will always be users that use after the ban will be dealt a penalty.
All the nonsense about why they used means nothing.

If your on the all excuse and reasons why side, your losing.
Remember this is a baseball board, most other sports deal with the issue the same way, you used, save your breath, you have no excuse.

[GiambiJuice]

This thread is completely off-topic. If there is no more discussion about Skip accusing Jeter, what's the point of it anymore?

To bash Jeter, of course. It's BB-F's favorite pastime.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

No. If the fans did not pack the house, the owners would not have paid huge sums of money to guys who can hit massive home runs, and then the guys would not have used.

OH, then they would not have used, are we back to the put some blame on the fans.

What is the difficulty with using common sense and putting the blame on the player that made the choice to use.

There are probably some on this board with the all excuses and reasons why we should not judge some users, who didn't want to hear Andy Petitte and his reason for using, injuries.
Now it's a different story.

[White Knight]

To bash Jeter, of course. It's BB-F's favorite pastime.

You've really come around a lot since all of our past Jeter debates.

[GiambiJuice]

You've really come around a lot since all of our past Jeter debates.

Nah, I'm not exempting myself from the Jeter-bashing group, just answering the question as honestly as possible :-)

Unlike others, I do not "hate" Jeter. I just think the "clutch" "leadership" etc.. talk is way overblown to the point of absurdity.

[NJYankeeFan]

OH, then they would not have used, are we back to the put some blame on the fans.

What is the difficulty with using common sense and putting the blame on the player that made the choice to use.

There are probably some on this board with the all excuses and reasons why we should not judge some users, who didn't want to hear Andy Petitte and his reason for using, injuries.
Now it's a different story.

Why would we blame someone who is trying their hardest to do their job as they encouraged and incentive too?

If you need to get a little more work done at night ever have a coffee?

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[SHOELESSJOE3]

Why would we blame someone who is trying their hardest to do their job as they encouraged and incentive too?

If you need to get a little more work done at night ever have a coffee?

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I have to make sure your serious.
If an athlete breaks a rule in place because he's trying to do better, that make it OK, acceptable. Because that has been the theme here, steroid use, since the ban.

OK the athlete uses...............who do you think shoulders the blame.

Coffee, sold over the counter, compared to a chemical banned in just about every sport.
Shake hands with Barry Bonds who once said............."you wear glasses to do your job better, isn't that cheating."
As far as I know Barry you can even buy glasses with no prescription, right off the rack. Foot in mouth.
In plain Engish, you may not want to hear it, you have no case.

[yankillaz]

You both believe if a player on the verge of losing his job due to other players, who are using steroids legally, taking his job. You believe that player would not feel forced to use steroids to give himself that same edge to keep his job?

Yeah, other players might not feel forced, but there would players orce to take them to keep their job to keep up with the rest of the pack that's using.

Welcome to the real world Evangelion. If it happens in everyday life, why wouldn't it in sports? Competition for better conditions, for better economy fuels people to do even illegal things. Now we're criticizing baseball players for this?