High school swing Feedback

[mudvnine]

I also see the boy having to cock or move his hands back since, without the front leg, he can't really time the pitch with a stride.

Excellent, very good observation "omg".....that is related to the "PS" part of the benefit of the drill wrt to the "barrel path". What you noted is the "prepping part" for it.

Also, there is a discussion that was just started at another forum, on "When To Stride". There is much to be considered when talking about the stride, not only "when", but also, with "what". IOWs, do high level hitters "stride" with their lead leg or their rear one?


OK, enough about that, don't want to get this too far off of "Standballdad's" original thread/question.

[mudvnine]

This is a great drill. Made me think of this guy.
http://www.aolnews.com/2009/10/02/ma...lf-phenomenon/

Guy hits it 300 apparently. What is his power source?

Exactly!!



You guys are right on it.

[songtitle]

Here is a video of my sons swing going into his freshman year of HS.

I don't want to sound rude, but he has no stride, and he's squishing the bug (which prevents his hips from fully turning).

If you go to a field and hit, how far does he usually hit it?

If it were me, I would immediately go back to a normal stride, and make sure I cleared my hips just after toe touch.

[Standballdad]

I don't want to sound rude, but he has no stride, and he's squishing the bug (which prevents his hips from fully turning).

If you go to a field and hit, how far does he usually hit it?

If it were me, I would immediately go back to a normal stride, and make sure I cleared my hips just after toe touch.

Not rude at all, he has good power, believe It or not. Definitely is not a bug squisher. We talk about having his rear knee driving to his front knee.

[mudvnine]

Not rude at all, he has good power, believe It or not. Definitely is not a bug squisher. We talk about having his rear knee driving to his front knee.

Yes, I don't see a "bug squisher" either.....unless we're going to call these guys.....







....."bug squishers" also.

[songtitle]

Definitely is not a bug squisher.

Bug squishing (none of the guys in mud's pics look like this)

bbf standballdad bugsquish.JPG

We talk about having his rear knee driving to his front knee.

But, it doesn't.

[mudvnine]

Bug squishing (none of the guys in mud's pics look like this)

bbf standballdad bugsquish.JPG

Hmmm, maybe not to that extent, but Barry's getting pretty close.

But more importantly, why would you post a still, so many frames after the POC.....wouldn't what he was doing at the POC be more pertinent to a discussion of "bug squishing"?

[The Flush]

highschoolswing - YouTube_converted-0.00.11.10.jpg

I don't see squishing.

[Standballdad]

Bug squishing (none of the guys in mud's pics look like this)

bbf standballdad bugsquish.JPG



But, it doesn't.

C'mon song, need to look at the whole action. It's okay to be wrong.

[songtitle]

It's okay to be wrong.

haha, I'm wrong a lot.

I need to download the video and study it by frame. I admit the back leg action is not the typical squishing. The 2nd swing looks more squishy than the first, to me. (I could be wrong)

Either way, the straight back leg after contact doesn't seem right. Will give it some thought.

[Standballdad]

haha, I'm wrong a lot.

I need to download the video and study it by frame. I admit the back leg action is not the typical squishing. The 2nd swing looks more squishy than the first, to me. (I could be wrong)

Either way, the straight back leg after contact doesn't seem right. Will give it some thought.

Okay, fair enough.

[mudvnine]

Either way, the straight back leg after contact doesn't seem right. Will give it some thought.

I think what you're seeing is a result ("effect") of his aggressive "push" of the from leg ("cause"), and what is being talked about as something that he might want to look at, and possibly work on.

I believe a lot of what you're seeing "negatively" in the lower half, is simply him trying to maintain (regain??) his balance, after shifting onto his lead leg, and then his attempt at using that lead leg to "push" himself through the swing.

So while what we are seeing in the tail end of the swings, may not be the true definition of "bug squishing", some of the lead leg "pushing", may be giving the same results.

Just another "thinking out loud" episode happening right now.....so I may be wrrrr, wrrrooo, wrooooo.....crap, wrong also!!

[Standballdad]

I think what you're seeing is a result ("effect") of his aggressive "push" of the from leg ("cause"), and what is being talked about as something that he might want to look at, and possibly work on.

I believe a lot of what you're seeing "negatively" in the lower half, is simply him trying to maintain (regain??) his balance, after shifting onto his lead leg, and then his attempt at using that lead leg to "push" himself through the swing.

So while what we are seeing in the tail end of the swings, may not be the true definition of "bug squishing", some of the lead leg "pushing", may be giving the same results.

Just another "thinking out loud" episode happening right now.....so I may be wrrrr, wrrrooo, wrooooo.....crap, wrong also!!

Mud, what is lead leg pushing? Son and I talk about the back leg over powering the hips trying to resist the hips from rotating, is this wrong?

[raptor]

Mud, what is lead leg pushing? Son and I talk about the back leg over powering the hips trying to resist the hips from rotating, is this wrong?

I hit a golf ball hardest when I feel that. Rear hip coiled until the last moment for a low boring draw. But not a lunge..stay back

[mudvnine]

Sorry "Standard", I had a relatively long and brilliant response written (ok, not so brilliant), when my browser (Firefox) decided that it was tired of working and shutdown on me all of a sudden, losing all I had written. So here's the abbreviated 2nd edition.....

Mud, what is lead leg pushing?

It is part of the "Push, Block, Push" method, theorized by Chris Yeager, one of the hitting instructors/"gurus" talked about and followed by some posters here.

In 50 words or less...."Push" with the rear leg to initiate the swing, "block" the forward shifting weight with the lead leg, "push" with the lead leg to complete the turn of the hips, powering the swing. Some people believe that that method of instruction is a sure cause of the "Shift THEN Swing" effect that is seen in those following it, that is not what is seen in the "Shift AND Swing" the is seen in video of high-level hitters.

Son and I talk about the back leg over powering the hips trying to resist the hips from rotating, is this wrong?

Uh, yes, no, maybe so.....I think? Kind of confused at how you worded it, but I think you have the main gist of the concept.

The rear leg is the "driver", that powers and controls the timing of the swing, and the rear hip provides the resistance that keeps the pelvic girdle from rotating (opening??), until the resistance of the rear hip is "overpowered" by the rear leg, as the hitter releases it into the "GO" portion of the swing.

Note: For clarification of common/accepted hitting terminology....the "hips" (plural, one on each side), refers to the location/joint where the femoral head, meets the acetabulum of the pelvic girdle. While this area is well within the body, you can explain/feel its location be feeling the "greater trochanter", which sits just lateral to the femoral head.

**The femoral head (ball) sitting in the acetabulum (socket) can also be seen in this picture.**

The pelvic girdle is the singular bone structure that sits between the two hips, but is many times referred to, or confused by some as the "hips", as they feel, and point to the much higher "iliac crest" (upper left structure in the picture above). This is because when we were younger, and were told to "put our hands on hips", we actually put them on our "iliac crests".

Hope that helps, let me know what I can explain further,
mud -

[mr. potato head]

Sorry "Standard", I had a relatively long and brilliant response written (ok, not so brilliant), when my browser (Firefox) decided that it was tired of working and shutdown on me all of a sudden, losing all I had written. So here's the abbreviated 2nd edition.....


It is part of the "Push, Block, Push" method, theorized by Chris Yeager, one of the hitting instructors/"gurus" talked about and followed by some posters here.

In 50 words or less...."Push" with the rear leg to initiate the swing, "block" the forward shifting weight with the lead leg, "push" with the lead leg to complete the turn of the hips, powering the swing. Some people believe that that method of instruction is a sure cause of the "Shift THEN Swing" effect that is seen in those following it, that is not what is seen in the "Shift AND Swing" the is seen in video of high-level hitters.


Uh, yes, no, maybe so.....I think? Kind of confused at how you worded it, but I think you have the main gist of the concept.

The rear leg is the "driver", that powers and controls the timing of the swing, and the rear hip provides the resistance that keeps the pelvic girdle from rotating (opening??), until the resistance of the rear hip is "overpowered" by the rear leg, as the hitter releases it into the "GO" portion of the swing.

Note: For clarification of common/accepted hitting terminology....the "hips" (plural, one on each side), refers to the location/joint where the femoral head, meets the acetabulum of the pelvic girdle. While this area is well within the body, you can explain/feel its location be feeling the "greater trochanter", which sits just lateral to the femoral head.

**The femoral head (ball) sitting in the acetabulum (socket) can also be seen in this picture.**

The pelvic girdle is the singular bone structure that sits between the two hips, but is many times referred to, or confused by some as the "hips", as they feel, and point to the much higher "iliac crest" (upper left structure in the picture above). This is because when we were younger, and we told to "put our hands on hips", we actually put them on our "iliac crests".

Hope that helps, let me know what I can explain further,
mud -

Beautiful, just plain beautiful! If you are following along, open up a word doc, copy-paste-read-feel-repeat over and over again. Golden nugget folks, golden I say!!

[Standballdad]

Sorry "Standard", I had a relatively long and brilliant response written (ok, not so brilliant), when my browser (Firefox) decided that it was tired of working and shutdown on me all of a sudden, losing all I had written. So here's the abbreviated 2nd edition.....


It is part of the "Push, Block, Push" method, theorized by Chris Yeager, one of the hitting instructors/"gurus" talked about and followed by some posters here.

In 50 words or less...."Push" with the rear leg to initiate the swing, "block" the forward shifting weight with the lead leg, "push" with the lead leg to complete the turn of the hips, powering the swing. Some people believe that that method of instruction is a sure cause of the "Shift THEN Swing" effect that is seen in those following it, that is not what is seen in the "Shift AND Swing" the is seen in video of high-level hitters.


Uh, yes, no, maybe so.....I think? Kind of confused at how you worded it, but I think you have the main gist of the concept.

The rear leg is the "driver", that powers and controls the timing of the swing, and the rear hip provides the resistance that keeps the pelvic girdle from rotating (opening??), until the resistance of the rear hip is "overpowered" by the rear leg, as the hitter releases it into the "GO" portion of the swing.

Note: For clarification of common/accepted hitting terminology....the "hips" (plural, one on each side), refers to the location/joint where the femoral head, meets the acetabulum of the pelvic girdle. While this area is well within the body, you can explain/feel its location be feeling the "greater trochanter", which sits just lateral to the femoral head.

**The femoral head (ball) sitting in the acetabulum (socket) can also be seen in this picture.**

The pelvic girdle is the singular bone structure that sits between the two hips, but is many times referred to, or confused by some as the "hips", as they feel, and point to the much higher "iliac crest" (upper left structure in the picture above). This is because when we were younger, and were told to "put our hands on hips", we actually put them on our "iliac crests".

Hope that helps, let me know what I can explain further,
mud -

Believe of not, I think I get it. Plan on doing some of the one legged drills Lancer mentioned.

[songtitle]

In 50 words or less...."Push" with the rear leg to initiate the swing, "block" the forward shifting weight with the lead leg, "push" with the lead leg to complete the turn of the hips, powering the swing.

IMO, while all of those things actually happen to some extent... they are not key to learning/coaching the swing. IMO.

I might even say they are counter-productive.

The more you try to push off with your back leg, the greater the chance of having a less than optimal swing. (I have described on here how to use scales to learn how to stride 100%+ of your weight)
This is the same in pitching. (It's anecdotal, but my son gained 3 mph after he quit pushing off.)

The more you try to block, the worse your swing, since you should be trying to 'clear' your front hip.

You shouldn't need to actively try to push the front leg, since (once you 'clear' your front hip) the forward motion of the torso/hips should force the full hip rotation. (This is what I see happening in the OP video, because there is no real forward motion)

Like mud said, I'm just thinking out loud here.

[Standballdad]

IMO, while all of those things actually happen to some extent... they are not key to learning/coaching the swing. IMO.

I might even say they are counter-productive.

The more you try to push off with your back leg, the greater the chance of having a less than optimal swing. (I have described on here how to use scales to learn how to stride 100%+ of your weight)
This is the same in pitching. (It's anecdotal, but my son gained 3 mph after he quit pushing off.)

The more you try to block, the worse your swing, since you should be trying to 'clear' your front hip.

You shouldn't need to actively try to push the front leg, since (once you 'clear' your front hip) the forward motion of the torso/hips should force the full hip rotation. (This is what I see happening in the OP video, because there is no real forward motion)

I asked my son if he is actively pushing back with his front leg. He says he is not. He says the push back is because his body has no wheres to go after running into his lead leg. Does that make sense?

[pstein]

The more you try to push off with your back leg, the greater the chance of having a less than optimal swing. (I have described on here how to use scales to learn how to stride 100%+ of your weight)

The more you try to block, the worse your swing, since you should be trying to 'clear' your front hip.

You shouldn't need to actively try to push the front leg, since (once you 'clear' your front hip) the forward motion of the torso/hips should force the full hip rotation. (This is what I see happening in the OP video, because there is no real forward motion)

Like mud said, I'm just thinking out loud here.

Why would you want to stride 100% of your weight?

[Standballdad]

Had my son work on the one legged drill last night, seemed to be helping with the push back. Trying to work on one thing at at time as to not over whelm him. Went from the one legged drill to some front toss and had him use a little more coil. At first his timing was a little off, but eventually he figured it out.

[lancers]

Had my son work on the one legged drill last night, seemed to be helping with the push back. Trying to work on one thing at at time as to not over whelm him. Went from the one legged drill to some front toss and had him use a little more coil. At first his timing was a little off, but eventually he figured it out.

Could you video tape him next time you work on the drill?

[Standballdad]

Could you video tape him next time you work on the drill?

I will, maybe tonight. If not sometime this week.

[Ursa Major]

I'm leaning toward MudV on this one; I don't see it as bug squishing (at least not worth addressing directly), but it can look that way because of the exaggerated width of the stance and the pronounced push back. Otherwise, there's good advice here about not pushing the hands forward - hard to tell because there seems to be a little early arm-barring, which can lead to that. It might also help to try to do a little "tipping" of the bat toward right center as the hands load; this can both prevent the pushing of the hands and lead to a better "throw".

Just to be a little contrarian and to try to add a little "real world" to this analysis. My experience is that kids who have this kind of pronounced weight shift and push back in the cages rarely replicate this in real game conditions. So, BP may in effect be an exaggeration drill such that - even in games - he still has a sufficiently pronounced and aggressive weight shift. Often, you'll see HS hitters who have lovely swings in BP but truncate their load and weight shift in live games in order to catch up with pitches, so their BP swings are of little help in analyzing them. So, I'd personally like to see some game swings before condemning what he's doing now.

With all this said, this kid's in the top 10 - 15% of freshman hitters I've seen. Any coach who doesn't see him as a 'keeper' would be nuts.

[Standballdad]

I'm leaning toward MudV on this one; I don't see it as bug squishing (at least not worth addressing directly), but it can look that way because of the exaggerated width of the stance and the pronounced push back. Otherwise, there's good advice here about not pushing the hands forward - hard to tell because there seems to be a little early arm-barring, which can lead to that. It might also help to try to do a little "tipping" of the bat toward right center as the hands load; this can both prevent the pushing of the hands and lead to a better "throw".

Just to be a little contrarian and to try to add a little "real world" to this analysis. My experience is that kids who have this kind of pronounced weight shift and push back in the cages rarely replicate this in real game conditions. So, BP may in effect be an exaggeration drill such that - even in games - he still has a sufficiently pronounced and aggressive weight shift. Often, you'll see HS hitters who have lovely swings in BP but truncate their load and weight shift in live games in order to catch up with pitches, so their BP swings are of little help in analyzing them. So, I'd personally like to see some game swings before condemning what he's doing now.

With all this said, this kid's in the top 10 - 15% of freshman hitters I've seen. Any coach who doesn't see him as a 'keeper' would be nuts.

He is playing in a tournament this weekend. I will tape some game swings and post next week. I have received some invaluable advice here on this forum and do appreciate it. Thanks again