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Thread: Mets 2012/2013 Off-Season Thread

  1. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    2.6 WAR per 700 PA's is an above average player
    576 hitters had at least 50 PA's in 2012.
    227 of them had a WAR/700 PA greater than 2.6
    That's about 40%

    347 hitters had at least 200 PA's in 2012 (Kottaras had 209)
    183 had a WAR/700 PA greater than 2.6
    That's about 52%


    Last season, Kottaras was in the top half of major league position players

  2. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    576 hitters had at least 50 PA's in 2012.
    227 of them had a WAR/700 PA greater than 2.6
    That's about 40%

    347 hitters had at least 200 PA's in 2012 (Kottaras had 209)
    183 had a WAR/700 PA greater than 2.6
    That's about 52%


    Last season, Kottaras was in the top half of major league position players
    Sometimes we need to put the stats down for a minute. Is Kottaras really an above average MLB player? Cmon sometimes we need to think it through.

  3. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    Sometimes we need to put the stats down for a minute. Is Kottaras really an above average MLB player? Cmon sometimes we need to think it through.
    Put the stats down and pick up what?
    How is jumping to an unsupported conclusion 'thinking'?

  4. #279
    They didn't go for Kottaras and the huge impact he so clearly brings to any major league roster. Instead, "Sandy" went in this direction:

    Last Friday, the Mets announced signed free-agent C Landon Powell to a minor league contract with an invite to Spring Training.

    Powell, 30, did not play in the Major Leagues in 2012. In three years with the A’s from 2009-2011, Powell hit .207 in 123 games.

    http://metsblog.com/metsblog/who-is-landon-powell/
    Before you jump to conclusions, the guy did have a .353 OBP in 79 games at Triple A last year - and slugged .729! - so maybe he's better than Kottaras.

    The off-season "plan" is really coming together beautifully....I totally dug Alderson's one-liner at the baseball writers dinner, too:

    “I’m in serious discussions with some outfielders that I just met on the Internet.”
    What a kidder!
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  5. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    They didn't go for Kottaras and the huge impact he so clearly brings to any major league roster.
    He's a useful player in a part-time role.
    Don't understand why that's such a controversial statement.

    Before you jump to conclusions, the guy did have a .353 OBP in 79 games at Triple A last year - and slugged .729!
    No. He slugged .377.

    His total offense was 12% worse than the average hitter in his league (which was AAA).

    so maybe he's better than Kottaras.
    Kottaras hit 14% better than the average hitter in HIS league, which was the majors.
    Last edited by filihok; 01-21-2013 at 07:46 AM.

  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    Sometimes we need to put the stats down for a minute. Is Kottaras really an above average MLB player? Cmon sometimes we need to think it through.
    I think the based on 700 plate appearances is misleading when comparing a regular player to a reserve. No way will a Catcher be able to perform at the same level for a full season or 700 ABs (still too high a # for a year average in my opinion but I didn't come up with the stat). Kotteras is a decent backup catcher on a team that has a legit starting righthanded catch on its roster but no way can you compare a guy who averages 200 to 300 hand picked at bats per season to a guy who plays everyday against any pitcher the other team throws. I still like the original stats BA, SLG and total bases and most important longevity to determine the quality of a players performance.

  7. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    I think the based on 700 plate appearances is misleading when comparing a regular player to a reserve. No way will a Catcher be able to perform at the same level for a full season or 700 ABs (still too high a # for a year average in my opinion but I didn't come up with the stat). Kotteras is a decent backup catcher on a team that has a legit starting righthanded catch on its roster but no way can you compare a guy who averages 200 to 300 hand picked at bats per season to a guy who plays everyday against any pitcher the other team throws.
    Fair points.
    If you don't like 700 PA's you can easily adjust it to whatever number of PA's you want.

    I still like the original stats BA, SLG and total bases and most important longevity to determine the quality of a players performance.
    Really?
    Consider an exactly league average team. Every player at every position is exactly average in everything they do.
    Which of these players would help the team win more games
    A poor fielding SS who hits .293 AVG, .390 SLG with 236 total bases

    or

    an average fielding 1Bman who hits .270 AVG, .501 SLG with 258 total bases

    or

    an average fielding catcher who hits .252 AVG, .420 SLG with 213 total bases?

  8. #283
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    The problem with Kottaras is his pricetag. The Mets already have $6M in John Buck. Ideally, Buck does well and can be traded at the deadline after d'Arnaud comes up. Travis playing 80% with Powell as his backup isn't too terrible. IIRC Kottaras was DFA'd, so I believe to acquire him, it would cost a player to be moved via trade. Sure, it'll be a meaningless player moved, but are the Mets in a position to move players from their system while adding some payroll simply for a part timer? They need to think 3-4 years down the road.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  9. #284
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    The Mets announced that they have signed Pedro Feliciano to a minor league deal. The deal includes an invite to major league spring training.
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

  10. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    The Mets announced that they have signed Pedro Feliciano to a minor league deal. The deal includes an invite to major league spring training.
    How many million from the Yanks and he never threw a pitch! If he is healthy he is a good pickup.

  11. #286
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    Repost from tickets and concession thread:

    Banner Day fan vote

    Banner Day is currently scheduled for Sunday, May 26. However, after our promotion schedule was released ESPN selected that date for a Sunday Night game. Some of you are very passionate about having Banner Day on a day game. Others feel because Monday, May 27 is the Memorial Day Holiday, the original date still works.

    We'd like to hear from more of our fans to help decide which date is best. Vote for when Banner Day should take place this season: the current date of Sunday, May 26 (versus Atlanta) or one of two potential alternate dates: Saturday, May 11 (versus Pirates) or Saturday, June 8 (versus Marlins).

    Voting ends Friday, January 25, at 11:59 p.m
    http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/nym/tick...r_day_poll.jsp
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

  12. #287
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    Supposedly Friday will be the day we know what happens with Upton. I think we can wind up with three logical potential scenerios

    1. Mets do not get Upton or Bourn, resign Hairston (most likely). This solidifies that 2013 is a rebuilding year and they will find out what, if any outfielders can help long term and sets it up for the same search for an entire outfield next year, with more money to spend?

    2. Mets trade for Upton (not very likely) They trade Niese, Familia, Flores and maybe low level pitching prospect (not Syndegard). This sures up rightfield for the next 5 to 8 years with a very good all around player but weakens the current starting rotation and future pieces for other trades. Team still cannot expect to heavily compete with the Nats or Braves in the near future and puts more pressure on Harvey, Wheeler to be front of the rotation guys with Niese gone.

    3. Everything in #2 plus signing Bourn to 4 year 50 million dollar contract and trading a couple of young pitchers Mejia, Edgin? for Chris Capuano. (even less likely) Team should be 500 or maybe a little better but still not match up well with Nats or Braves.

    I honestly cannot come up with which scenerio I would be totally happy with. It may sound strange but I almost want to say I would not mind number one and hoping they can form a dominant starting rotation Wheeler, Harvey, Niese, Syndegard and Gee. Have the good but lesser pitching prospects become quality relievers and maybe make one trade for a good outfielder and pick up 2 via free agency in the next couple of years. I think there best chance for a long term contending team is #1 but it really is throwing in the towel for this year and probably next. Not pretty but realistic.

  13. #288
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    I am opposed to signing Bourn. Andy McCullough at the Newark Star-Ledger best summarized it in this article:
    http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/201...free-agen.html

    Bourn himself isn’t all that appealing as a long-term solution. He turned 30 last month. His game is predicated on his legs. As he ages, his speed is expected to decline. He’s a below-average hitter (his .320 wOBA ranks 20th among qualified center fielders since 2010). And he won’t come cheap. His agent is Scott Boras...

    For the Mets, signing Bourn would mean forfeiting the No. 11 pick and the money allotted to them ($2.625 million in 2012). The Mets can’t just spend that money on later picks. That money disappears from their pool.
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

  14. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    I am opposed to signing Bourn. Andy McCullough at the Newark Star-Ledger best summarized it in this article:
    http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/201...free-agen.html
    Yeah I agree - bad signing. Kinda like the Frank Francisco signing, only for the outfield.

    Lame.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  15. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    I am opposed to signing Bourn. Andy McCullough at the Newark Star-Ledger best summarized it in this article:
    http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/201...free-agen.html
    Signing Bourn would be a huge mistake. The fans in NY are (at least in my opinion) too smart to realize that his presence there maybe wins an extra game or two. But the long-term effects hurt more than the short-term fix. To punt the draft pick while paying him would not be smart at all IMO. Take a good hard look as to what you've got in the system, and try to fill holes that might be there in 2014/2015. Francisco likely will get the early push at closer to justify the money spent. Hopefully, for you guys, he does well enough to gain much interest at the trade deadline. Purnell should be a fixture in that spot, and moving FF would be imperative - and to get the best value, he needs to establish his numbers this season.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  16. #291
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    The Mets have agreed to sign free agent right-handed pitcher Shaun Marcum.
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

  17. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    The Mets have agreed to sign free agent right-handed pitcher Shaun Marcum.
    Good signing. Marcum has pitched well for the last few years, I hope he is healthy. I wonder if this gives them a little more flexibility in trading a pitcher for a outfielder? I still cannot give up Harvey or Wheeler for Upton, but will Syndergaard, Flores and Familia get it done? I doubt it!

  18. #293
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    I agree that Marcum is a good signing.Marcum had an E.RA of 3.70 or lower for four straight years and has a lifetime E.RA
    of 3.76.Marcum has had five straight winning seasons and has a lifetime record of 21 games over .500.Marcum also has a
    good hits to innings pitched and walks to innings pitched ratio in his career.I am pleasantly surprised someone with this
    track record was available for the Mets to get in late January.He will definitely help in the back end of the rotation.
    Btw,Justin Upton was traded from the Diamondbacks to the Braves in a multiplayer trade.Justin Upton joins his brother
    B.J.Upton who signed as a free agent with the Braves.
    "You don't give up any runs,we'll guarantee you
    at least a tie." ~ Grote to Koosman

  19. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    Good signing. Marcum has pitched well for the last few years, I hope he is healthy. I wonder if this gives them a little more flexibility in trading a pitcher for a outfielder? I still cannot give up Harvey or Wheeler for Upton, but will Syndergaard, Flores and Familia get it done? I doubt it!
    No need to worry about that anymore. A REAL team traded for Upton.

    Does Marcum play the OF?
    Last edited by Paulypal; 01-24-2013 at 11:55 AM.

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    No need to worry about that anymore. A REAL team traded for Upton.

    Does Marcum play the OF?
    I would have liked Upton also. I would like to know what the Mets offered and what the Diamondbacks wanted. But a healthy Marcum will be a good addition to the starting staff. Now we will see what happens with Bourn. Even with Bourn, I see a 500 team at best, but you did not have to give up high prospects to get him or Marcum.

  21. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    But a healthy Marcum will be a good addition to the starting staff.
    Marcum had a 2.21 road ERA in 2011, and a 3.26 road ERA in 2012. Citi Field could benefit the guy's pitching and help rebuild his value as a trade chip before the trade deadline or draft pick bait. Also, he throws a nice curveball and fields his position well. I'll take Marcum over Chris Young any day.
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

  22. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    a healthy Marcum will be a good addition to the starting staff.
    Marcum doesn't seem healthy. Get bet on a full season from him

    you did not have to give up high prospects to get him or Marcum.
    Mets will have to give up their 1st round draft pic if they sign Bourn (though they are asking to give up their second instead)

  23. #298
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    filihok, where can I learn more about ZIPS projections? I don't know anything about ZIPS and one thing I read had Marcum at a projected 3 WAR with ZIPS.
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

  24. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    filihok, where can I learn more about ZIPS projections? I don't know anything about ZIPS and one thing I read had Marcum at a projected 3 WAR with ZIPS.
    Follow Dan Szymborski on Twitter. He created ZiPS. He's also pretty responsive to questions.

    ZiPS are being released on FanGraphs this year. Here's a link to today's release - the Detroit Tigers. There's some info and links there.

  25. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    Marcum doesn't seem healthy. Get bet on a full season from him


    Mets will have to give up their 1st round draft pic if they sign Bourn (though they are asking to give up their second instead)
    High meaning prospects they currently own, Wheeler, Flores, Syndegaard,Mejia,Edgin. Sorry I didn't make myself clear. The point was they can improve there current roster without cleaning out the farm.

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