Mets 2012/2013 Off-Season Thread

[Paulypal]

Arod with the Mets would have been a disaster. The Rangers were very lucky to get out of that ridiculous contract and it will be interesting to see how the yanks will dump him. No one else was willing to take a chance on Vlad. Maybe there cheapness helped them by not signing Manny and Zito, they could have overpaid for them also. I do think the only way they have a chance without the Madoff money and continued low attendance is to follow the dreaded plan.

Disaster??? Please don't confuse Arod's 2nd contract with his first. At the time he signed his first he was THEE best player in the game, and I believe the Mets would have acquired him for much less than Texas did as Texas was bidding against no one. Arod being a Met at that time would have been a great pickup.

Well someone took a shot at Vlad...I would say it worked out pretty good.

[rjsallstars]

Disaster??? Please don't confuse Arod's 2nd contract with his first. At the time he signed his first he was THEE best player in the game, and I believe the Mets would have acquired him for much less than Texas did as Texas was bidding against no one. Arod being a Met at that time would have been a great pickup.

Well someone took a shot at Vlad...I would say it worked out pretty good.

In my opinion, Arod was the best thing that never happened to the Mets. The Rangers were finished after they signed him and the Yankees are lucky to have Jeter to keep him in line. Anyway, I would like to hear what you have in mind as far as moves they can make this offseason that will make them better while still being semi-fiscally responsible?

[Paulypal]

Yankees are lucky to have Jeter to keep him in line.

Really?????

[Mongoose]

In my opinion, Arod was the best thing that never happened to the Mets. The Rangers were finished after they signed him and the Yankees are lucky to have Jeter to keep him in line. Anyway, I would like to hear what you have in mind as far as moves they can make this offseason that will make them better while still being semi-fiscally responsible?

The Mets, in the years around 2006, with their own regional sports network, drawing around 4 million a year had to be making a mint. The Wilpons should have an enormous surplus from these years to work with. I did a rough calculation of the Mets/SNY's revenue in the Ownership/Management thread. With a small market payroll the team/T.V. rights must still be wildly profitable.

The Wilpons flat out own 65% of their regional sports network. The Steinbrenners, as I recall, only own 70% of the Yankees. With Goldman Sachs and other partners splitting equity they own a considerably lesser percentage of the YES network. It's likely the Wilpons make more money from the Mets/T.V. than the Steinbrenners do from the Yankees. The Wilpons still plead poverty while stuffing a fortune in their pockets.

They've set spending parameters for the draft and free agents that make it impossible to field a solid contender. It never fails to astound me that fans still exist who've brainwashed themselves into defending, even praising every cheap, horrible move the Mets make. Signing A-Rod was the best move the Mets never made? He was 72.6 Wins Above Replacement over the life of that original ten year contract. At $4 million per WAR he was worth $290,400,000. He was a bargain even at what the Rangers signed him for. At 20.9 WAR over the life of his contract with the Angels, Vlad earned his money, too. Meanwhile the Mets had Richard Hidalgo, Victor Diaz, Xavier Nady, Shawn Green, Lastings Milledge, and Jeff Francoeur in right field. Guerrero would likely have made the difference in 2007 and 2008.

You engage in self-deception in order to keep giving this organization your money. You justify every unjustifiable move or non-move. The Wilpons return the favor by treating their paying supporters like marks. Wake up and smell the coffee.

You want to hear "moves they can make this offseason that will make them better while still being semi-fiscally responsible?" By the definition the Wilpons have set and you accept there really are none. They have little coming from the minors and refuse to increase payroll. I fully expect them to stick the $15 million they saved on Bay this year into their pockets. Trying to figure out which marginal players are marginally better than the current marginal players isn't a fun way to pass the time.

[Paulypal]

The Mets, in the years around 2006, with their own regional sports network, drawing around 4 million a year had to be making a mint. The Wilpons should have an enormous surplus from these years to work with. I did a rough calculation of the Mets/SNY's revenue in the Ownership/Management thread. With a small market payroll the team/T.V. rights must still be wildly profitable.

The Wilpons flat out own 65% of their regional sports network. The Steinbrenners, as I recall, only own 70% of the Yankees. With Goldman Sachs and other partners splitting equity they own a considerably lesser percentage of the YES network. It's likely the Wilpons make more money from the Mets/T.V. than the Steinbrenners do from the Yankees. The Wilpons still plead poverty while stuffing a fortune in their pockets.

They've set spending parameters for the draft and free agents that make it impossible to field a solid contender. It never fails to astound me that fans still exist who've brainwashed themselves into defending, even praising every cheap, horrible move the Mets make. Signing A-Rod was the best move the Mets never made? He was 72.6 Wins Above Replacement over the life of that original ten year contract. At $4 million per WAR he was worth $290,400,000. He was a bargain even at what the Rangers signed him for. At 20.9 WAR over the life of his contract with the Angels, Vlad earned his money, too. Meanwhile the Mets had Richard Hidalgo, Victor Diaz, Xavier Nady, Shawn Green, Lastings Milledge, and Jeff Francoeur in right field. Guerrero would likely have made the difference in 2007 and 2008.

You engage in self-deception in order to keep giving this organization your money. You justify every unjustifiable move or non-move. The Wilpons return the favor by treating their paying supporters like marks. Wake up and smell the coffee.

You want to hear "moves they can make this offseason that will make them better while still being semi-fiscally responsible?" By the definition the Wilpons have set and you accept there really are none. They have little coming from the minors and refuse to increase payroll. I fully expect them to stick the $15 million they saved on Bay this year into their pockets. Trying to figure out which marginal players are marginally better than the current marginal players isn't a fun way to pass the time.

When I hear the term "fiscally responsible" I think of it as an anti-Yankee term, and or an excuse from a team that is not going to spend money.

Its amazing how some Met fans (or fans in general) fall for the propaganda fed to them. I remember when ARod was a FA and Steve Phillips went public with Boras' contract demands in an effort to turn the Mets off to ARod and Boras. In many cases it worked. ARod publicly said he would like to come to NY..meaning the Mets, but Wilpon never made an offer. Now I am not saying you offer him 250m, but you offer him 17m a year and see what happens. The Mets took the low road - of course- they started a smear campaign in order not to offer him anything and save face with their fans.

One day fans will see that the Wilpons having winning somewhere on the back page on their priority list.

[rjsallstars]

Really?????

You think Arod was going to go to any team for a discount? come on!! The Met put a smear campaign on him? Do you think agents use the press to put pressure on teams to sign players at inflated prices? Arod fit in with the Yankees because Jeter is the big dog. Jeter took pressure off of Arod and I think he showed him to a certain extent how to be a professional. Is Arod a great player? Yes. Is he a leader and someone who can lead teams to championships? IMO, no. Was Vladimer a mistake, definately. But at the time it was not a no brainer signing. Now back to the 2012/2013 Mets. Use any term you want to say "not just throw money around" if fiscally responsible turns you off and tell us what 7-8 things the Mets can do to make them compete next year? I think that is what this thread is for, but it seems like bashing anyone who still likes to "root for the Mets" is what many of these discussions revolve around. However, I do believe the bashers will be more than willing to spend there money if and when the Mets start to win again. In my opinion, thats frontrunning and being a fair-weather fan. It also takes away a lot of the credibility of things that are said.

[Cowtipper]

The Mets re-signed Tim Byrdak.

[milladrive]

One day fans will see that the Wilpons having winning somewhere on the back page on their priority list.

Somehow, I view the terms "winning" and "page on their priority list" to be a Wilpon contradiction in terms. A "Wilcontradiction" if you will. I simply love playing with their name.

P.S. Let's try to keep the topic, folks. Several recent posts have been moved to the Citi Field Concessions thread in the Ballparks forum.

[Paulypal]

You think Arod was going to go to any team for a discount? come on!! The Met put a smear campaign on him? Do you think agents use the press to put pressure on teams to sign players at inflated prices? Arod fit in with the Yankees because Jeter is the big dog. Jeter took pressure off of Arod and I think he showed him to a certain extent how to be a professional. Is Arod a great player? Yes. Is he a leader and someone who can lead teams to championships? IMO, no. Was Vladimer a mistake, definately. But at the time it was not a no brainer signing. Now back to the 2012/2013 Mets. Use any term you want to say "not just throw money around" if fiscally responsible turns you off and tell us what 7-8 things the Mets can do to make them compete next year? I think that is what this thread is for, but it seems like bashing anyone who still likes to "root for the Mets" is what many of these discussions revolve around. However, I do believe the bashers will be more than willing to spend there money if and when the Mets start to win again. In my opinion, thats frontrunning and being a fair-weather fan. It also takes away a lot of the credibility of things that are said.

Oh my God. You believe all the crap you read dont you?

Jeter took pressure off of ARod...are you asleep. Jeter single handidly made ARods life hell here early on. When the fan and Media were all over ARod...Jeter the CAPTAIN did nothing to take anything off of ARod. It would have taken one interview with a one paragraph for the fans to back off and Jeter did NOTHING.

Jeter showed ARod how to be a pro? Ok now your getting scary. ARod was an all time great, a two time MVP and probalby the best player in the game - at least in the AL. Jeter showed ARod nothing. Jeter couldnt carry ARod's jock back in the day. Lets get real. ARod moved over to 3rd to be a Yankee while being the far superior shortstop. So ARod showed Jeter about being a team player.

Lead a team to championships? You really are a propaganda junkie arent you? You believe Jeter led his teams to championships? The Yankees had superior pitching, a great lineup, and a superior bullpen...thats why the Yankees won championships.

Let me ask you something Mr Jeters agent....if Jeter played his whole career on the Royals...how many championships would the supremely professional, and leader of champions have......times up....ZERO...theres your number. Put Nomar, ARod, Vizquel on the Yankees and they still have 5 since the mid 90's. Maybe more.

Nobody is bashing you for liking the Mets...we all the like them here. We all just have our own angle on how to deal with the worst organization pound for pound in pro sports. Hands down.

You opt to walk around with pom-poms out. I am very much in wait and see mode because I will not be taken anymore.

[Paulypal]

You think Arod was going to go to any team for a discount? come on!! The Met put a smear campaign on him?

Maybe not but the Mets took the low road instead of making an offer. Which is nothing new with the Mets. Only thing back then it was Steve Phillips that was the bullet proof vest for Wilscum.

Remember Phillips telling all the propaganda hungry fans about ARod wanting a tent at the ST facility, and wanting a luxury box...etc etc. Those things were nothing new or extraordinary in negotiations, but Phillips under the umbrella of Wilscum went to the press with the details. Very classy move by the way.

The Mets - who Arod I believe was his first choice...never even made an offer of any kind. Yes he got 25 million a year, but maybe the Mets should have offered 17 million a year just to make an offer and see what happens. Do you know why Wilscum didnt? I will tell you why... Wilscum feared that if he made ARod an offer that ARod would have accepted the offer...then what? Then Wilscum would have to pay. He didnt want that.

I mean after all...what major market team needs and can afford a shortstop that hits 40 homers and plays a GG caliber short. Nah....not for us. We needed Rey Ordonez......who needed ARod. Good grief

[Strawman]

Maybe not but the Mets took the low road instead of making an offer. Which is nothing new with the Mets. Only thing back then it was Steve Phillips that was the bullet proof vest for Wilscum.

Remember Phillips telling all the propaganda hungry fans about ARod wanting a tent at the ST facility, and wanting a luxury box...etc etc. Those things were nothing new or extraordinary in negotiations, but Phillips under the umbrella of Wilscum went to the press with the details. Very classy move by the way.

The Mets - who Arod I believe was his first choice...never even made an offer of any kind. Yes he got 25 million a year, but maybe the Mets should have offered 17 million a year just to make an offer and see what happens. Do you know why Wilscum didnt? I will tell you why... Wilscum feared that if he made ARod an offer that ARod would have accepted the offer...then what? Then Wilscum would have to pay. He didnt want that.

I mean after all...what major market team needs and can afford a shortstop that hits 40 homers and plays a GG caliber short. Nah....not for us. We needed Rey Ordonez......who needed ARod. Good grief

"24 +1" was the back page of the Daily News, fed by the Wilpon smear machine as I recall....

Long history of pretending to pursue players, then running them down. We saw the most recent case last year. And if Wright decides to seek his fortune (and a ring) elsewhere, we'll hear how he's not such a great guy after all.

[rjsallstars]

Oh my God. You believe all the crap you read dont you?

Jeter took pressure off of ARod...are you asleep. Jeter single handidly made ARods life hell here early on. When the fan and Media were all over ARod...Jeter the CAPTAIN did nothing to take anything off of ARod. It would have taken one interview with a one paragraph for the fans to back off and Jeter did NOTHING.

Jeter showed ARod how to be a pro? Ok now your getting scary. ARod was an all time great, a two time MVP and probalby the best player in the game - at least in the AL. Jeter showed ARod nothing. Jeter couldnt carry ARod's jock back in the day. Lets get real. ARod moved over to 3rd to be a Yankee while being the far superior shortstop. So ARod showed Jeter about being a team player.

Lead a team to championships? You really are a propaganda junkie arent you? You believe Jeter led his teams to championships? The Yankees had superior pitching, a great lineup, and a superior bullpen...thats why the Yankees won championships.

Let me ask you something Mr Jeters agent....if Jeter played his whole career on the Royals...how many championships would the supremely professional, and leader of champions have......times up....ZERO...theres your number. Put Nomar, ARod, Vizquel on the Yankees and they still have 5 since the mid 90's. Maybe more.

Nobody is bashing you for liking the Mets...we all the like them here. We all just have our own angle on how to deal with the worst organization pound for pound in pro sports. Hands down.

You opt to walk around with pom-poms out. I am very much in wait and see mode because I will not be taken anymore.

And how many rings would Arod have with the Royals? Enough with Arod, I really must have touched a nerve on that one, sorry. I think we started this thing with your quote about knowing 7-8 things the Mets could do to be able to contend next year. I am much more interested in that and I would hope the few who still monitor this thread would be also. Lets Go Mets (or is that a dirty word around here?)

[rjsallstars]

Oh my God. You believe all the crap you read dont you?

Jeter took pressure off of ARod...are you asleep. Jeter single handidly made ARods life hell here early on. When the fan and Media were all over ARod...Jeter the CAPTAIN did nothing to take anything off of ARod. It would have taken one interview with a one paragraph for the fans to back off and Jeter did NOTHING.

Jeter showed ARod how to be a pro? Ok now your getting scary. ARod was an all time great, a two time MVP and probalby the best player in the game - at least in the AL. Jeter showed ARod nothing. Jeter couldnt carry ARod's jock back in the day. Lets get real. ARod moved over to 3rd to be a Yankee while being the far superior shortstop. So ARod showed Jeter about being a team player.

Lead a team to championships? You really are a propaganda junkie arent you? You believe Jeter led his teams to championships? The Yankees had superior pitching, a great lineup, and a superior bullpen...thats why the Yankees won championships.

Let me ask you something Mr Jeters agent....if Jeter played his whole career on the Royals...how many championships would the supremely professional, and leader of champions have......times up....ZERO...theres your number. Put Nomar, ARod, Vizquel on the Yankees and they still have 5 since the mid 90's. Maybe more.

Nobody is bashing you for liking the Mets...we all the like them here. We all just have our own angle on how to deal with the worst organization pound for pound in pro sports. Hands down.

You opt to walk around with pom-poms out. I am very much in wait and see mode because I will not be taken anymore.

you want propaganda, I"ll give you propaganda . http://youtu.be/g3dn2RanPQg

[rjsallstars]

Maybe not but the Mets took the low road instead of making an offer. Which is nothing new with the Mets. Only thing back then it was Steve Phillips that was the bullet proof vest for Wilscum.

Remember Phillips telling all the propaganda hungry fans about ARod wanting a tent at the ST facility, and wanting a luxury box...etc etc. Those things were nothing new or extraordinary in negotiations, but Phillips under the umbrella of Wilscum went to the press with the details. Very classy move by the way.

The Mets - who Arod I believe was his first choice...never even made an offer of any kind. Yes he got 25 million a year, but maybe the Mets should have offered 17 million a year just to make an offer and see what happens. Do you know why Wilscum didnt? I will tell you why... Wilscum feared that if he made ARod an offer that ARod would have accepted the offer...then what? Then Wilscum would have to pay. He didnt want that.

I mean after all...what major market team needs and can afford a shortstop that hits 40 homers and plays a GG caliber short. Nah....not for us. We needed Rey Ordonez......who needed ARod. Good grief

My new favorite player, Arod!!! http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.1208274

[Paulypal]

And how many rings would Arod have with the Royals? Enough with Arod, I really must have touched a nerve on that one, sorry. I think we started this thing with your quote about knowing 7-8 things the Mets could do to be able to contend next year. I am much more interested in that and I would hope the few who still monitor this thread would be also. Lets Go Mets (or is that a dirty word around here?)

ARod would have zero rings with the Royals, but then again I dont walk around calling ARod (or anyone else) a championship player. I understand that baseball is a team game.

Honestly I hold no ill will, nor was a nerve hit. I just was pointing out the history of Wilscum...even with great players. His interest in winning is next to zero. To believe otherwise is just not very smart.