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Thread: Boston Red Sox offseason thread

  1. #226
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  2. #227
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    Red Sox sign David Ross! Nice! What about Salty now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwissRedSoxFan View Post
    Red Sox sign David Ross! Nice! What about Salty now?
    LOve it. Was hoping they would sign Ross as a backup with a strong role! Great player. I wonder if it's a precursor to dealing Saltalamacchia. Go with Lavarnway and Ross and trade Salty (to the Mets?) is one of the moves I advocated a couple of weeks back. Not much has append yet, but I'm starting to feel very good about Sox and their offseason.
    Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 11-10-2012 at 07:12 AM.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwissRedSoxFan View Post
    Martin? No thanks.

    Napoli, i would be all in. 3/30.

    Hunter I would love to see alongside David Ortiz. 2/22 should do it.

    Olmsted is a bummer. I cannot imagine, that he would be worse than Vicente Padilla. Olmsted is 6'6 and throws 97. He was injured for about three years and is completely dominating the minors. Since his comeback he has a whip under 1.000 and insane K-rates. Now we must hope, that the Red Sox did not make a mistake...

    Lavarnway is done in the minors. Nothing to prove there. He should be at least a good backup and he is cheap. He belongs on the 40-man-roster.
    Wouldn't Napoli be the ideal candidate for a Beltre-type 1 year deal? Reestablish those power numbers at Fenway, play 1b.
    I agree on Olmstead. No idea what would possibly make Padilla anymore valuble than him.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    the Sox should go hard after Kuroda and Sanchez. Lester, Buch, Sanchez, Kuroda, Lackey, Duobront, Morales and some solid arms waiting in the minors. looks pretty stout to me
    I like Kuroda and argued for the Sox to sign him last offseaon. Couldn't understand the world when they let the Yanks sign him away on a cheap 1-year deal. BUT: The mfy's made a qualifying offer to Kuroda, which means signing him would cost us our 2nd round pick. While it's not a firstrounder and the draft class is fairly bad, I'd still not be really happy to give away the 7th pick in round 2 for a 1year deal, not when your chances to compete in that year aren't significantly higher!
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Barrie View Post
    Is anybody concerned that John Henry is closing his investment firm because of serious financial reverses? Whereas not that many years ago it controlled over $2 billion, it is now down to perhaps less than $100 million.

    I know that sounds like big money anyway, but I doubt it's enough to keep running the Red Sox and Liverpool for all that long. The latter team is having as poor a season as did the Sox this year.

    Today's Wall Street Journal has some details of this situation.
    I'm a little concerned, but reportedly Henry's wealth mostly in his sports teams.

    There was speculation in September that Henry’s investment firm’s struggles might mean he would lack the resources to support the Sox and another team he owns, the Liverpool Football Club in England. But people close to Henry said most of his wealth is now in his sports teams, not in the Florida firm.
    http://bostonglobe.com/business/2012...hAL/story.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwissRedSoxFan View Post
    Red Sox sign David Ross! Nice! What about Salty now?
    I like this signing, welcome back David Ross.

    They could platoon Salty and Ross, having Ross play against lefties.

    Ross hit .260/.341/.479 against RHP in 2012 and .241/.307/.405 against lefties in 2012.


    Salty hit .230/.299/.480 against RHP including 24 of his 25 HR’s against righties while only hitting .170/.211/.283 against lefties in 2012.

    Or as Therwil suggested maybe trade Salty and go with Ross and Lavarnway.

    I wonder if the Mets would consider Salty plus a prospect for Ike Davis?

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    LOve it. Was hoping they would sign Ross as a backup with a strong role! Great player. I wonder if it's a precursor to dealing Saltalamacchia. Go with Lavarnway and Ross and trade Salty (to the Mets?) is one of the moves I advocated a couple of weeks back. Not much has append yet, but I'm starting to feel very good about Sox and their offseason.
    I love this pick up. it is not a good move, it is a great move! I would move Salty in a trade while his value is high. not sure the Sox think the same because they had been trying to traqde and aquire Salty for years before they actually got him. One of the catchers will be moved for sure imo

  9. #234
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    Double post.
    Last edited by Dogdaze; 11-10-2012 at 09:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogdaze View Post
    I wonder if the Mets would consider Salty plus a prospect for Ike Davis?
    I just read the Lucas Duda, the Mets backup plan at 1st base had wrist surgery which pretty much wipes out trading Davis.

    So Maybe LaRoche or possibly Napoli, though I like him, I'm not big on Napoli's offense if he strickly plays 1st base.

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogdaze View Post
    I'm a little concerned, but reportedly Henry's wealth mostly in his sports teams.



    http://bostonglobe.com/business/2012...hAL/story.html
    Bucs fans have suffered for years with the Glazers as owners of Manchester United and their massive debt which has shortchanged the payroll for the Bucs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raysnbran View Post
    Bucs fans have suffered for years with the Glazers as owners of Manchester United and their massive debt which has shortchanged the payroll for the Bucs.
    I'm not sure where Henry's at finacially, hopefully he doesn't accumulate massive debt and shortchange the Red Sox.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogdaze View Post
    Napoli, though I like him, I'm not big on Napoli's offense if he strickly plays 1st base.
    Thinking about our options at 1st base for 2013, my initial thought was that if the Red Sox are not in serious contention in 2013 to try out Gomez at 1st base and see if he develops into a decent hitter. I thought maybe he’s a late bloomer and maybe can develop into a keeper or perhaps a decent trade chip. He’s been a career minor leaguer and got his first opportunity to play in majors in 2012 at age 27, turning 28 in Sept while hitting decently at .275/.324/.422 in 37 games, and hit very well in AAA at .310/.371/.589 also winning the MVP award. I still believe he can be a decent 1st baseman though perhaps not as good as some who are available via FA.

    I do like Therwil’s idea of trading for 1st base prospect Matt Adams, but the cost would probably expensive in prospects, though depending on which prospects might be worth it, though it may take him a year or two to develop into a good hitting MLB 1st baseman, but he does look like a stud so I'd trade for him if the cost is reasonable.

    But it appears the Sox FO believe they can be serious contenders this year and according to what I’ve read are apparently looking for an experienced MLB player at 1st base.

    The best two are LaRoche, a natural 1st baseman and Napoli a catcher that has played some games at 1st.

    At first glance I thought Napoli doesn’t have enough offense compared to others such as LaRoche at 1st base, but taking a closer look I think he’s pretty good. And as Therwil suggests could be a Beltre type FA looking to establish his offense.

    Here’s how Napoli ranked offensively compared to all MLB 1st basemen in 2012.

    BA .227 ranks tied at 17th
    OBP .343 ranks tied at 10th
    SLG .469 ranks 13th
    WOBA .349 ranks 12th
    OPS .812 ranks 10th
    HR’s 24 ranks tied at 9th
    fWAR 2.0 ranks 10th (though a portion of his war was playing defense at catcher)

    I also believe playing half his games at Fenway, his offense will be even better.

    Defensively Napoli’s not good at 1st base, in a small sample his career UZR at 1st is -2.6 and UZR/150 -3.4 while in 2012 was -3.0 and -20.8, but as I said it’s a small sample, too small imo to make a very fair judgement as he only played 28 games at 1st in 2012 and 133in his career. And I do believe he’d improve defensively if he plays there regularly.

    Because Napoli can play catcher as well as 1st base and is 2 years younger then LaRoche, not to mention he won’t cost a draft pick to sign, he’s my 1st choice among FA’s if the price of his contract isn’t too expensive.
    Last edited by Dogdaze; 11-11-2012 at 09:56 AM.

  14. #239
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    Thoughts

    I would like to give Gomez a real shot at starting 1b. The guy can hit, without a doubt, and his defense is not bad.

    Read today that Napoli wants to catch and not interested in playing 1b full time. I dont think he is our guy. and if the Sox are looking for an experienced guy, LaRoche would be a good pickup.

    I would hate to deal with Theo, but also in the paper today was maybe Salty for Garza. Dont know if it would be straight up or not, but worth exploring. Garza would be a solid addition to the rotation, and Salty has been Theos prize for some time now (finally got him in Boston after several years trying).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    Go with Lavarnway and Ross and trade Salty (to the Mets?)
    I'm looking at Salty's stats. I have several issues.

    1. What happened in the second half?

    First half: .239/.289/.517/.807
    Second half: .200/.286/.371/.658

    Particularly notable:
    May: .308/.345/.628/.973
    August: .205/.263/.329/.591

    2. I think Salty would be a useful offensive upgrade if he were a catcher for the Mets. He has good numbers against the Cubs, Phillies and Marlins in small samples.

    Take a look at the OPS of Mets catchers in 2012:

    2012 Mets catchers by OPS and games caught:
    Josh Thole: .584, 90 games
    Rob Johnson: .587, 15 games
    Mike Nickeas: .471, 35 games
    Kelly Shoppach: .618, 22 games (Mets)
    Salty (Red Sox): .742

    3. The Mets faced a bunch of teams with players who stole bases: Michael Bourn, Shane Victorino, Jimmy Rollins and Jose Reyes, who was 4th in the NL in stolen bases. Hell, Bryce Harper had 18 stolen bases.

    Salty only had an 18% caught stealing whereas Thole had a 23% CS rate and Shoppach had a 32% rate. I also have doubts about Salty catching a knuckleball as he had 23 passed balls in 2012; Thole had 18. Can Salty stop the opposing running game and catch a knuckleball effectively?
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    I'm looking at Salty's stats. I have several issues.

    1. What happened in the second half?
    There was a lot less protection in the lineup?
    "I believe in the Church of Baseball. I tried all the major religions and most of the minor ones. I've worshipped Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms and Isadora Duncan. I know things. For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance." ~Ron Shelton, from Bull Durham

  17. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    I also have doubts about Salty catching a knuckleball as he had 23 passed balls in 2012; Thole had 18. Can Salty stop the opposing running game and catch a knuckleball effectively?
    Uggh, the idea of Salty catching a knuckleballer, it's like watching Many Ramirez play the outfield.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  18. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximum jack View Post
    There was a lot less protection in the lineup?
    Or opposing pitchers got the report that he chases everything no matter how far outside the strike zone...
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  19. #244
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    Reports are that the Sox are beyond kicking the tires on Napoli and looks like they are going hard after him. He is a favorite of John Henry and they have fallen in love with him. Could be interesting...gives the Sox a 1b, C, DH that can protect David Ortiz in the lineup

  20. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    Reports are that the Sox are beyond kicking the tires on Napoli and looks like they are going hard after him. He is a favorite of John Henry and they have fallen in love with him. Could be interesting...gives the Sox a 1b, C, DH that can protect David Ortiz in the lineup
    Like I said before. Napoli is interesting, but it depends on the contract. We will see.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    He is a favorite of John Henry and they have fallen in love with him.
    If this team wants to return to juggernaut status, it needs to stop doing this. No more falling in love. No more infatuations.

    Numbers. Scouting. Cool, calm, calculated moves.
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  22. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    I would like to give Gomez a real shot at starting 1b. The guy can hit, without a doubt, and his defense is not bad.
    I agree that Gomez should be given a chance, I think he might be a hidden gem. It wasn’t so long ago they had Carlos Pena for a short time but let him walk not believing he’d be anything special, only to see him put up some excellent numbers with the Rays. Now I’m not saying Gomez will hit like Pena, but I am saying he has some pretty good potential.

    However, having said that, I’d go with Gomez only if the Red Sox aren’t going to contend for the WS in 2013 since if he doesn’t work out well, we are no worse off not contending anyway but if he does do well, he could be a keeper or a decent trade chip. But at this point depending on the moves made there is a possibility the Sox can contend.

    But I think the primary reason the Sox FO wants a proven offensive minded 1st baseman is because I believe they plan to use Iglesias at SS and thus will need as much offense as possible since Iglesias can’t hit well and has very little power.

    With so many holes to fill in the lineup, general manager Ben Cherington said Thursday that shortstop was a “back-burner” issue. Iglesias, 22, has no guarantees. But it’s clear the hope is for him to earn the job in spring training.

    “I think we’re going to see where we are,” said Cherington. “We think Jose is ready to help the major league team, depending on what the rest of the team looks like. If we feel like we need to build some protection in that area, as the offseason goes on, we’ll consider that.

    “Nobody is going to be given anything. If he’s given an opportunity to win the job in spring training, then he’ll have to win the job.”
    http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...nZO/story.html

    Though it’s possible they go with Ciriaco who probably is a better option but probably not by much, I think the Sox FO believe Iglesias will improve his hitting, well see. It’s also possible there just aren’t any other good options available in trade or at least to the Red Sox liking at this time. Drew might be the best FA SS but imo isn’t much better then Aviles and may want a multi year contract for more money then we’d want to pay.

    There's also a slim outside chance Bogaerts gets a shot, though thats a very long shot to start the season imo, but possibly mid season if he does well in the minors.

    The one trade many of us hope for is Ellsbury plus for Andrus. But it appears the Rangers want to hold on to Andrus and Profar at this point, or perhaps they might trade one but are asking too much in trade or have another team in mind to trade with.

    Anyway it’s still early in the offseason so well see what moves are made, and who knows maybe they’ll give Gomez a shot, though I tend to doubt it.
    Last edited by Dogdaze; 11-12-2012 at 04:31 PM.

  23. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D. View Post
    If this team wants to return to juggernaut status, it needs to stop doing this. No more falling in love. No more infatuations.

    Numbers. Scouting. Cool, calm, calculated moves.
    Good points. But sometimes imo you do have to gamble a little and sometimes you need to go with your gut, however there should be some good research and scouting done first, meaning it should be an educated gamble/gut feeling.

    And I don't have a problem with infatuations, but just make sure there's good numbers/scouting to back it up before you sign someone. And please don't fall in love with a player and pay him big bucks just because he killed us in the past.

    I think of Carl Crawford in this regard, though I will say I do believe they had numbers/scouting and did a lot of research on him prior to signing him, so sometimes things just don't work out.

    But having said that, I agree with your points, lets hope they do some good research and scouting.
    Last edited by Dogdaze; 11-12-2012 at 05:10 PM.

  24. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogdaze View Post
    Though it’s possible they go with Ciriaco who probably is a better option but probably not by much, I think the Sox FO believe Iglesias will improve his hitting, well see. It’s also possible there just aren’t any other good options available in trade or at least to the Red Sox liking at this time. Drew might be the best FA SS but imo isn’t much better then Aviles and may want a multi year contract for more money then we’d want to pay.
    The one trade many of us hope for is Ellsbury plus for Andrus. But it appears the Rangers want to hold on to Andrus and Profar at this point, or perhaps they might trade one but are asking too much in trade or have another team in mind to trade with.
    I think people should get over the idea that Ciriaco is anything more than a fringe roster filler. There is nothing that should make one expect him to be more valuable than Iglesias. I am hoping for a trade here.

    Also Andrus is a pipe dream at this point. The Rangers tried hard to acquire Simmons from to Braves to flip him to AZ in a trade for Upton. Apparetly they were willing to include Olt in a deal for Simmons. This pretty much tells you they are not ready to move Andrus just yet.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  25. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    I think people should get over the idea that Ciriaco is anything more than a fringe roster filler. There is nothing that should make one expect him to be more valuable than Iglesias. I am hoping for a trade here.
    I don't agree. I'm not big on Ciriaco but think he's slightly better all around then Iglesias at this time. We know Ciriaco hits much better then Iggy, can steal some bases and plays decent defense in several positions which imo makes him slightly better.

    To me both players are role players. Iglesias has a great glove but thats about it. However I do think Iglesias has much more potential being as young as he is and should improve offensively, but to me at this time I see Iggy as nothing more then a defensive replacement, a Pokey Reese type, actually his hitting is insulting to Pokey.

    But having said that, I'll enjoy Iggy's defense and believe he'll save us a lot of runs compared to most any other SS which does have a lot of value, perhaps more value then Ciriacos offense and all around play, but well see. And I'll root hard for Iglesias to succeed, but honestly I'm cynical that he'll hit much above the Mendoza line and without many extra base hits, though I really hope I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    Also Andrus is a pipe dream at this point. The Rangers tried hard to acquire Simmons from to Braves to flip him to AZ in a trade for Upton. Apparetly they were willing to include Olt in a deal for Simmons. This pretty much tells you they are not ready to move Andrus just yet.
    Yup I agree and I did read about that failed trade with the Braves. Though I'd never say never for a trade for Andrus, thus my hope statement. I think any player can be traded depending on the price, but hope aside, at this time I don't see Andrus being traded.
    Last edited by Dogdaze; 11-12-2012 at 06:48 PM. Reason: typos

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