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Thread: Boston Red Sox offseason thread

  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDL View Post
    Well we HAD LaRoche briefly in 2009.....
    We need Napoli. LaRoche is not a fit, for different reasons.
    I know you're watching, Si. Bu.

  2. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by SwissRedSoxFan View Post
    We need Napoli. LaRoche is not a fit, for different reasons.
    Those reasons being...

  3. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    Those reasons being...
    Age and pushing for three years, draft pick compensation, lefthanded, one position only.

    Thought this was obvious.
    I know you're watching, Si. Bu.

  4. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by SwissRedSoxFan View Post
    Age and pushing for three years, draft pick compensation, lefthanded, one position only.

    Thought this was obvious.
    Lots of things seem obvious, but hardly anyone knows them. Better to be safe.

  5. #530
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    Sox watched Bobby Abreu take grouders at 1b today...the off season gets stranger and stranger each day. Maybe he can come off the bench...

    i wonder if the Sox will offer him 3/$39 lol

  6. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    Sox watched Bobby Abreu take grouders at 1b today...the off season gets stranger and stranger each day.
    My first thought on hearing they worked out Abreu at 1st was that it was nuts. Abreu will be 39 in March and doesn’t appear to have much left, plus he’s never played 1st base.

    This could just be a negotiation tactic to get Napoli to sign, but it could also be that the Red Sox are concerned about Napoli’s health. If Napoli’s hip (the assumed health issue) is bad and he has stretch to dig out throws from Middlebrooks and Drew, it could put a strain on the hip causing further health issues, as would squatting in the catchers position.

    Though he didn’t hit for much power, looking at Abreu’s 2012 stats, he did have a pretty good OBP at .350 which would rank 6th amongst all MLB 1st basemen in 2012, however he accomplished this in only 257 PA’s which doesn’t really qualify.

    So if the Sox FO really isn’t willing to give up a draft pick and the slot money that goes with it for LaRoche, perhaps looking at Abreu to play 1st could be outside the box thinking out of concern for Napoli’s health.

    They could platoon Abreu who had an OBP of .353 against RHP with Gomez. And if Bill James projection for Gomez in 2013 is close to accurate where he projects BA .280 OBP .335 SLG .469 WOBA .348 maybe it has a chance to work. But I definitely wouldn’t be too thrilled about an Abreu/Gomez platoon.

  7. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogdaze View Post
    My first thought on hearing they worked out Abreu at 1st was that it was nuts. Abreu will be 39 in March and doesn’t appear to have much left, plus he’s never played 1st base.

    This could just be a negotiation tactic to get Napoli to sign, but it could also be that the Red Sox are concerned about Napoli’s health. If Napoli’s hip (the assumed health issue) is bad and he has stretch to dig out throws from Middlebrooks and Drew, it could put a strain on the hip causing further health issues, as would squatting in the catchers position.

    Though he didn’t hit for much power, looking at Abreu’s 2012 stats, he did have a pretty good OBP at .350 which would rank 6th amongst all MLB 1st basemen in 2012, however he accomplished this in only 257 PA’s which doesn’t really qualify.

    So if the Sox FO really isn’t willing to give up a draft pick and the slot money that goes with it for LaRoche, perhaps looking at Abreu to play 1st could be outside the box thinking out of concern for Napoli’s health.

    They could platoon Abreu who had an OBP of .353 against RHP with Gomez. And if Bill James projection for Gomez in 2013 is close to accurate where he projects BA .280 OBP .335 SLG .469 WOBA .348 maybe it has a chance to work. But I definitely wouldn’t be too thrilled about an Abreu/Gomez platoon.
    I think people read way too much into this Bobby Abreu thing. Currently Mauro Gomez is the only 1B above AA under contract. Abreu could provide some depth. That's all.
    Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 01-01-2013 at 11:37 AM.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  8. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    I think people read way too much into this Bobby Abreu thing. Currently Mauro Gomez is the only 1B above AA under contract. Abreu could provide some depth. That's all.
    he has never played 1b in his life as far as i know. Maybe they just happened to be in town and took a look at him...I dont think he adds anything to this sox team. I assume that Napoli will sign for 2 years. I also think they need a back up to Napoli especially if he has a bad hip.

  9. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    I don't see how Hanrahan is definitively better than Melancon.
    Bill James projections for 2013:
    Hanrahan: 57 IP, 9.16 K/9, 4.11 BB/9, 3.63 ERA, 3.61 FIP
    Melancon: 57 IP, 8.53 K/9, 2.68 BB/9, 3.47 ERA, 3.33 FIP

    Holt looks ok.
    As I follow the Dodgers closely, I'm familiar with DeJesus and Sands. Neither are likely MLB starters but DeJesus can hit some (a leg injury wrecked his defense and speed) and Sands could be 4th/5th OFer.
    Melancon's 2012 projected stats:

    3-5, 75 IP, 31 BB, 71 SO, 3.84 ERA, 13 saves

  10. #535
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    someone wake me when ST starts.

  11. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    someone wake me when ST starts.
    This.

    You know the offseason is going slow when you read about Javier Vazquez hitting 93 on a a skewed radar gun at some field in puerto rico...
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  12. #537
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    looks like the Sox are offering a 1 year deal to Napoli??? time to move on boys

  13. #538
    http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...d_sox_num.html

    Jose Iglesias: 10 (was 58)
    Will Middlebrooks: 16 (was 64)
    Ryan Lavarnway 20 (was 60)
    Pedro Ciriaco: 23 (was 77)
    Daniel Nava: 29 (was 66)
    Felix Doubront 35 (was 61)
    Junichi Tazawa: 36 (was 63)

    As for the new veteran players:

    David Ross: 3 (formerly Mike Aviles)
    Jonny Gomes: 5 (formerly Nick Punto)
    Stephen Drew: 7 (formerly Cody Ross)
    Shane Victorino: 18 (formerly Daisuke Matsuzaka)
    Koji Uehara: 19 (formerly Josh Beckett)
    Brock Holt: 26 (formerly Scott Podsednik)
    Ryan Dempster: 46 (formerly Franklin Morales, now 56)
    Joel Hanrahan: 52

    Dempster has worn 46 for much of his career. Bet there's a story behind that. Hanrahan had 52 with the Pirates.

    (No, 26 is not retired by the Red Sox. That seems like a crime.)

    New manager John Farrell has 53. Here are his coaches:

    Brian Butterfield: 13
    Torey Lovullo: 22
    Greg Colbrunn: 28
    Arnie Beyeler: 43
    Juan Nieves: 47
    Gary Tuck: 57
    Victor Rodriguez: 58

    Colbrunn had 28 for much of the time he played in the majors. Adrian Gonzalez had it last year. Lovullo never had 22 in the majors.

  14. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky5 View Post
    http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...d_sox_num.html

    Jose Iglesias: 10 (was 58)
    Will Middlebrooks: 16 (was 64)
    Ryan Lavarnway 20 (was 60)
    Pedro Ciriaco: 23 (was 77)
    Daniel Nava: 29 (was 66)
    Felix Doubront 35 (was 61)
    Junichi Tazawa: 36 (was 63)

    As for the new veteran players:

    David Ross: 3 (formerly Mike Aviles)
    Jonny Gomes: 5 (formerly Nick Punto)
    Stephen Drew: 7 (formerly Cody Ross)
    Shane Victorino: 18 (formerly Daisuke Matsuzaka)
    Koji Uehara: 19 (formerly Josh Beckett)
    Brock Holt: 26 (formerly Scott Podsednik)
    Ryan Dempster: 46 (formerly Franklin Morales, now 56)
    Joel Hanrahan: 52

    Dempster has worn 46 for much of his career. Bet there's a story behind that. Hanrahan had 52 with the Pirates.

    (No, 26 is not retired by the Red Sox. That seems like a crime.)

    New manager John Farrell has 53. Here are his coaches:

    Brian Butterfield: 13
    Torey Lovullo: 22
    Greg Colbrunn: 28
    Arnie Beyeler: 43
    Juan Nieves: 47
    Gary Tuck: 57
    Victor Rodriguez: 58

    Colbrunn had 28 for much of the time he played in the majors. Adrian Gonzalez had it last year. Lovullo never had 22 in the majors.

    The instant Boggs went to NY, he lost the right to have #26 retired as far as I am concerned. Good for the Sox for not retiring it. If he had gone to the Rays at the end of his career from us, then I would say retire #26. Also. give out #21. To hell with Clemens. If #21 is retired, I'd consider it a tribute to Ray Culp who never complained and who never threw his teammates under a bus.

    If anything, the Sox need to retire #3 for Jimmie Foxx, #7 for Dom DiMaggio and #43 for the Eck. He pitched 5 1/2 seasons for us and was technically employed by the Sawx when he was elected to the HOF (as was Fisk when he was elected). If Nomar ever gets in the HOF, #5 goes up in RF as well. He technically retired as a member of the Sox (1 day contract)

    Above all, retire #25 for Tony C!
    Last edited by SDL; 01-12-2013 at 12:25 AM.
    Man, do I *HATE* the Yankees!!!!!!

  15. #540
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    I think the biggest news about the Red Sox is the new book by Terry Francona and Dan Shaughnessy. The owners are characterized as men who like, but don't love, baseball and it was evidently their doing that involved not re-signing Beltre and Victor Gonzales and forcing the signing of Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford. They wanted a more "exciting" ballclub because they thought that would improve their TV ratings(!)

  16. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Barrie View Post
    I think the biggest news about the Red Sox is the new book by Terry Francona and Dan Shaughnessy. The owners are characterized as men who like, but don't love, baseball and it was evidently their doing that involved not re-signing Beltre and Victor Gonzales and forcing the signing of Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford. They wanted a more "exciting" ballclub because they thought that would improve their TV ratings(!)
    There is a couple of things that one should be aware of when reading the excerpt published:

    - It's an excerpt with no additional context that has been chosen to create controversy and thus media coverage and thus interest in the book and thus sales.
    - The book is (co-)written by a "journalist" who has been among the most vocal opponents of the Henry group when the Sox were for sale and ever since.

    The fact that he/they abuse a loose correlation between the signing/trade for Crawford and Gonzalez to suggest some causality is just yellow press style journalism.

    - At the time it was widely portrayed that Crawford was an Epstein pinkie and that Henry had to be convinced by the FO to open the check book.
    - Adrian Gonzalez was also someone long coveted by the FO as well as by any other team and/or fan. To suggest that they made that move because he had star power that Beltre somehow lacked is beyond comical.

    Remember, the book was written so as to sell. And hitting on a already over-emotionalized points like the ownership's commitment will help do so.

    Now, as the regulars here can tell you, I love Tito dearly and have been critical about ownership on more than a few occasions, but realistically speaking, isn't it assuming to expect that someone who made a fortune in a business other than baseball will have the same "love" for baseball than someone who's been involved in baseball to the extent that he became a major leaguer and after his active career even a coach and manager? Can we really call out ownership for wanting to generate some revenue?

    And as a final note, whoever hired the marketing geniuses who couldn't come up with anything better than "you don't have enough marketable players" should be out of a job as should these marketing geniuses. I have serious trouble believing that a bunch of very successful and intelligent people would anything but laugh at such a report.

    I don't think I agree much with Werner, but the focus is the 2013 Red Sox and beyond. The rest is history.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  17. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    There is a couple of things that one should be aware of when reading the excerpt published:

    - It's an excerpt with no additional context that has been chosen to create controversy and thus media coverage and thus interest in the book and thus sales.
    - The book is (co-)written by a "journalist" who has been among the most vocal opponents of the Henry group when the Sox were for sale and ever since.

    The fact that he/they abuse a loose correlation between the signing/trade for Crawford and Gonzalez to suggest some causality is just yellow press style journalism.

    - At the time it was widely portrayed that Crawford was an Epstein pinkie and that Henry had to be convinced by the FO to open the check book.
    - Adrian Gonzalez was also someone long coveted by the FO as well as by any other team and/or fan. To suggest that they made that move because he had star power that Beltre somehow lacked is beyond comical.

    Remember, the book was written so as to sell. And hitting on a already over-emotionalized points like the ownership's commitment will help do so.

    Now, as the regulars here can tell you, I love Tito dearly and have been critical about ownership on more than a few occasions, but realistically speaking, isn't it assuming to expect that someone who made a fortune in a business other than baseball will have the same "love" for baseball than someone who's been involved in baseball to the extent that he became a major leaguer and after his active career even a coach and manager? Can we really call out ownership for wanting to generate some revenue?

    And as a final note, whoever hired the marketing geniuses who couldn't come up with anything better than "you don't have enough marketable players" should be out of a job as should these marketing geniuses. I have serious trouble believing that a bunch of very successful and intelligent people would anything but laugh at such a report.

    I don't think I agree much with Werner, but the focus is the 2013 Red Sox and beyond. The rest is history.
    I am not a fan of Shaughnessy either. Werner's comment about looking to the future was the kind of diplomatic statement that smacks of a P.R. flack's contribution. Werner's best known contribution to baseball was having the crotch-scratching Roseanne Barr sing the National Anthem before a game in San Diego.

    Henry's investment company is likely out of existence. Lucchino is referred to as the instigator of deals for which Epstein was blamed. They are all involved in a company which deals also with English football and auto racing.

    I think it is likely that Francona is being truthful, and he points out that he has many positive things to say about the owners too.

    Of course they hope to sell books, but what's to criticize about that? Perhaps waiting for the book to come out before evaluating it is in order. As I see it the Red Sox behavior in the deal market seems more understandable, and I note that most writers peg them for last or next to last in their division for 2013.

  18. #543
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    Napoli has a 1 year deal for $5m per @bradfo!

    That really has me worried. In my book Napoli (or rather my expectations regarding his offense) was a major part of the offseason. But that he now agreed to reduce the original 3/39 to 1/5 says a ton about his hip condition (Still not sure whether that represents the risk that his hip "breaks down" and he spends major time on the DL or that his hip is affecting his play even when he's playing). The Sox better find a serious backup option now!

    Update: Incentives can boost deal up to $13m...
    Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 01-17-2013 at 07:40 AM.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  19. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    Napoli has a 1 year deal for $5m per @bradfo!

    That really has me worried. In my book Napoli (or rather my expectations regarding his offense) was a major part of the offseason. But that he now agreed to reduce the original 3/39 to 1/5 says a ton about his hip condition (Still not sure whether that represents the risk that his hip "breaks down" and he spends major time on the DL or that his hip is affecting his play even when he's playing). The Sox better find a serious backup option now!

    Update: Incentives can boost deal up to $13m...
    Good, I like incentive-laden contracts. I'm guessing the extra money he makes will hinge on his health and productivity, as it should be for anyone.

  20. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9&10 View Post
    Good, I like incentive-laden contracts. I'm guessing the extra money he makes will hinge on his health and productivity, as it should be for anyone.
    I would assume the incentives are based on PAs (or days not spent on DL). Though that's just an assumption at this point. I like incentive-laden deals too. However, I expected Napoli to be a big part of the offense. Now that deal really has me worried that a) the injury might be bad enough that both his swing and his range will be affected and b) that he eventually inevitably will land on the DL. So I would really like them to have a good backup plan.

    Of course, if Napoli turns out not to be too greatly affected by his hip and holds up for the entire season, this may turn out to be the steal of a century.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  21. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    Of course, if Napoli turns out not to be too greatly affected by his hip and holds up for the entire season, this may turn out to be the steal of a century.
    That'd have to be a century without a lot of great steals in it

  22. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    That'd have to be a century without a lot of great steals in it
    Well, crime rates have been down...but in all seriousness, if you get .250 .350 .500 at $5m a year (3 WAR), that would be a pretty good deal, wouldn't it. Although if he puts that up over the entire season his contract would be worth $13m. Anyway, if Napoli turns out to be healthy for most of the season, this will be a great deal, if the hip affects his power, he will be a .250 hitter who won't get walked a lot with limited range.
    Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 01-17-2013 at 11:12 AM.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  23. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    I would assume the incentives are based on PAs (or days not spent on DL). Though that's just an assumption at this point. I like incentive-laden deals too. However, I expected Napoli to be a big part of the offense. Now that deal really has me worried that a) the injury might be bad enough that both his swing and his range will be affected and b) that he eventually inevitably will land on the DL. So I would really like them to have a good backup plan.

    Of course, if Napoli turns out not to be too greatly affected by his hip and holds up for the entire season, this may turn out to be the steal of a century.
    I'm glad to see this contract finally get done and I also like incentive deals. Hopefully Napoli will be healthy and hit well. But I'm not too worried about it if Napoli goes on the DL, I think Gomez would be adequate and maybe even better. I'd be more concerned if I felt this team was a legitimate contender, but since I don't see the Red Sox as they are currently assembled making the playoffs, I'm fine with giving Gomez a chance if Napoli gets injured.

  24. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    That'd have to be a century without a lot of great steals in it
    Or a century where you don't count the next 88 years.
    "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
    "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

  25. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Barrie View Post
    I am not a fan of Shaughnessy either. Werner's comment about looking to the future was the kind of diplomatic statement that smacks of a P.R. flack's contribution. Werner's best known contribution to baseball was having the crotch-scratching Roseanne Barr sing the National Anthem before a game in San Diego.

    Henry's investment company is likely out of existence. Lucchino is referred to as the instigator of deals for which Epstein was blamed. They are all involved in a company which deals also with English football and auto racing.

    I think it is likely that Francona is being truthful, and he points out that he has many positive things to say about the owners too.

    Of course they hope to sell books, but what's to criticize about that? Perhaps waiting for the book to come out before evaluating it is in order. As I see it the Red Sox behavior in the deal market seems more understandable, and I note that most writers peg them for last or next to last in their division for 2013.
    If there were any questions that the Shaughnessy twisted and turned any quote from anyone made so as to fit the narrative the Shaughnessy wanted, I guess it should be clear now: http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-s...medium=twitter
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

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