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Thread: 2012-2013 Phillies Offseason Thread

  1. #76
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    Coming out now that stiffs like Marco Scutaro are getting offers of 3/$24M.... at 36 or 37 years old. Are you kidding me? What are thse GMs thinking?!?!
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  2. #77
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    Somebody from ESPN ran thru twitter that a Cliff Lee - Justin Upton deal was on the table. It was quickly shot down by others in the media and by Ruben Amaro as well.

    IF there is a deal for an outfielder, I think we'll hear more and more of a possible Ellsbury - Halladay deal with Boston or Ellsbury - Worley plus a prospect.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post
    Coming out now that stiffs like Marco Scutaro are getting offers of 3/$24M.... at 36 or 37 years old. Are you kidding me? What are thse GMs thinking?!?!
    I haven't played since high school but I'm hoping to get a multi-year deal myself.
    "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing." - Warren Spahn

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    I haven't played since high school but I'm hoping to get a multi-year deal myself.
    I'm a bit passed the 37 year old window, but I don't need three years. At 45, I'd happily settle for 1-2
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  5. #80
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    Speaking of 37 year olds, the Phillies close to deal for Michael Young of the Rangers:
    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...michael-young/
    "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing." - Warren Spahn

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post
    I have absolutely no problem with it actually. One of my main issues with Amaro is that he sets the market instead of waiting things out. Now that he doesn't have an empty checkbook like in the past - along with multiple holes to fill - he's being more patient. He's signed too many players early on with too much money and/or years attached to their deals. I like that he's stepping back a bit and trying to really get a feel of the overall situation for this year as well as 3+ years down the road. Now that I say that, he could go tonight and get Hamilton for 7 years and trade the system away for Justin Upton. We'll see

    FWIW, I think we'll see a moderate signing as well as a moderate trade to fill out the roster. I don't see the Phils being in on Hamilton or Bourn and they don't have what Arizona needs for an Upton deal.
    If Bourn is who they really wanted, they've got an unusual advantage in dealing with Scott Boras: Boras doesn't have as many options of people willing to come close to his asking price. The Phils might be the only one standing now, which certainly gives them some leverage if they want to use it. And the Phils could still trade or go with Hamilton, which means they have options at least now, and could afford to walk away.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    Speaking of 37 year olds, the Phillies close to deal for Michael Young of the Rangers:
    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...michael-young/
    We'll see how this plays out. Seems that the hiccup is Young dropping his NTC. One year at $8M I have no problem with. His last three seasons are .299/.341/.430, 13 HR on average and that's much better than what's been here at 3B lately. However, was last year simply an "off" season for him, or has he hit the wall? A year or two the Phils were considering him (or at least he was brought up on message boards and local media) but would come at the cost of better prospects sent as well as coving 100% of the contract. This hopefully is a good buy-low option.

    The Phils only need a 1-year stopgap to get a better look at what Asch & Franco do at the next level in the minors, and with very few options he may be the best one available.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    If Bourn is who they really wanted, they've got an unusual advantage in dealing with Scott Boras: Boras doesn't have as many options of people willing to come close to his asking price. The Phils might be the only one standing now, which certainly gives them some leverage if they want to use it. And the Phils could still trade or go with Hamilton, which means they have options at least now, and could afford to walk away.
    Boras is amazing. Todd Zolecki (local beat writer) mentioned he saw Boras early this morning in the hotel lobby or something like that talking to some GMs about how incredible Bourn's defensive ability is. Something tells me this guy doesn't sleep the entire week.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  9. #84
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    FWIW, Youkilis now has a one-year $12M offer on the table from the Yankees. There are still a couple other teams that are looking for a 3B upgrade/replacement, so this could go up in value or topped with an extra year added on.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  10. #85
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    Rule V draft is today. Phillies selections:

    1st Round - CF Ender Inciarte from the Arizona organization.

    Fast on his feet (had 46 SB last year) and slight of frame. No real power to speak of but is still young (about 21 or 22).

    Minor League Round - LHP Brendan Lafferty from the Kansas City organization.

    Decent strikeout rates but allows way too many baserunners. 26 year old who never got above AA ball.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  11. #86
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    Amaro & Gillick met with Twins GM Terry Ryan this morning. Twins mentioned Willingham and/or Revere could be moved a few days ago for the right price.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  12. #87
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    Here's a quick report I found on Inciarte...

    Ender Inciarte, CF, L/L, 511", 160 lbs, DOB 10/29/90

    Ender David Montiel Inciarte provides an opportunity to contemplate the eternal question for young players coming off an unexpectedly strong season: breakout or bust? In his case, Im going to lean toward breakout. Inciarte is a speedy young centerfielder, an above-average runner with plus range and a plus arm. As a left-handed hitter, he gets out of the box quickly, and hes an aggressive baserunner whos making good progress at learning how to convert his speed into steals, posting a 46/12 SB/CS rate last year in a season split fairly evenly between A and A+. Inciarte is a good contact hitter who uses the whole field, and last year he started adding a few doubles and triples into the mix. His size and build mean that he probably wont ever hit for much over-the-fence power, but he looks like he might hit enough line drives to keep pitchers honest as he moves through the minors.

    The rub is that Inciarte pretty clearly isnt ready to hit in the majors at this point. His raw stat line looks a little more impressive than it is, since the first half came as a level repeater and the second was in the hitter-happy California League. Hes playing in the VWL right now, and while hes shown flashes of promise, his overall stat line is fairly poor. Inciarte brings enough speed and defense to the table to be a realistic option as a bench player, but a team selecting him would need to believe that a year spent getting the bat knocked out of his hands wouldnt do irreparable damage to his psyche and skill set. Still, his potential to grow into a Michael Bourn-like player may be to tempting to resist.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  13. #88
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    Zolecki reporting that the Phillies acquired Ben Revere from the Twins. No word yet as to who is sent to Minnesota, but pitching is most likely.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  14. #89
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    Vance Worley and Trevor May were sent to Minnesota for Ben Revere. Phils find their CFer who adds both speed and solid defense.

    I never was a big fan of Worley so I have no problem with him moving and May - even though I love high-K arms - wasn't able to take that next step last year and has lost some of his polish.

    This move adds zero power to the lineup, but that can be addressed in one of the corner OF positions as the options for 3B are slim to none.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  15. #90
    Looks like the Ben Revere Trade for Vance Worley and Trevor May trade is official.
    Hopefully Amaro is correct in his perception that the Phillies minor league pitching depth is so strong that he can afford to give up the top-rated pitching prospect of the farm system in trades to other teams each year (Jarred Cosart- 2011 and Trevor May - 2012.
    On the good news front: The Phillies picked up OF - Ender Inciarte from Arizona (major league phase) and LHP- Brendan Lafferty from Kansas City (AAA phase) in today's Rule 5 draft while losing no unprotected prospects to other teams.

  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post

    This move adds zero power to the lineup, but that can be addressed in one of the corner OF positions as the options for 3B are slim to none.
    Michael Young is probably their man for 3B.

  17. #92
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    I can't help but think this is one more step in the downfall. Worley for Ben Revere. I hope it sounds better in a couple years than it does now.
    "I go all out, and I'm going to bring that to the table everyday. In good times and in bad times." - Eric Byrnes
    "As long as I have fun playing, the stats will take care of themselves." - Ken Griffey Jr.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky5 View Post
    I can't help but think this is one more step in the downfall. Worley for Ben Revere. I hope it sounds better in a couple years than it does now.
    Actually, I'd rather have seen the Phils hang onto May over Worley. I think Vance is nothing more than a #4 in most rotations whereas May has the stuff to be a #2 - if he learns control. But we'll have to see how this all goes. Revere & possibly Mike Young isn't that impressive and doesn't fill the needs this team has. However, if teh money saved by not spending much on CF & 3B (about $7M total as it stands right now), and that extra money allows Ruben to acquire Hamilton, I think most people would say it was a major success of an offseason.

    There's a chance that Revere produces 80% of what Bourn does this season at only 5% of the price - that would be outstanding value. And I'd much rather see Revere, Young & Hamilton over say Bourn, Young & Cody Ross on this team.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  19. #94
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    Amaro on WIP live this morning talking about the Revere trade, offer with Texas for Young, etc.

    - Says he wanted Revere because he gives financial flexibility not only for now but for years down the road.

    - Knows this team still lacks a bit of power, but the FA market offered little (Upton & Hamilton) and teams pay a high premium on that (I think speed is also over-valued which is why Victorino got such a large deal and why Revere may be looked at as an overpay).

    - This is the first offseason where he had to fill multiple needs so had to be a bit more judicious about his spending.

    - Rumors about moving Halladay or Lee were false. Only way this team wins WS in 2013 is if all three (Hamels of course) take the hill.

    - (I'll believe this when I see it) Says he wants to eliminate long-term contracts, especially when paying those years past players' primes.

    - Wouldn't discuss strategies, but you can tell by his response he still likes Hamilton alot.

    - Says some rumors about the Young trade are true and some are false (I assume that's about the players being given up and/or waiting for his approval).
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post
    Actually, I'd rather have seen the Phils hang onto May over Worley. I think Vance is nothing more than a #4 in most rotations whereas May has the stuff to be a #2 - if he learns control. But we'll have to see how this all goes. Revere & possibly Mike Young isn't that impressive and doesn't fill the needs this team has. However, if teh money saved by not spending much on CF & 3B (about $7M total as it stands right now), and that extra money allows Ruben to acquire Hamilton, I think most people would say it was a major success of an offseason.

    There's a chance that Revere produces 80% of what Bourn does this season at only 5% of the price - that would be outstanding value. And I'd much rather see Revere, Young & Hamilton over say Bourn, Young & Cody Ross on this team.
    I've evened out on the deal. My first thought was: Why trade young pitchers when they could have just signed a FA? But the free'd up cash by not signing a FA CF who would essentially be a glorified Ben Revere [who thought we'd ever hear that said] is an excellent idea. As long as the pitchers don't pan out too well... and Ben does.
    "I go all out, and I'm going to bring that to the table everyday. In good times and in bad times." - Eric Byrnes
    "As long as I have fun playing, the stats will take care of themselves." - Ken Griffey Jr.

  21. #96
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    What do you guys think about signing Hamilton?
    "I go all out, and I'm going to bring that to the table everyday. In good times and in bad times." - Eric Byrnes
    "As long as I have fun playing, the stats will take care of themselves." - Ken Griffey Jr.

  22. #97
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    This team was best balanced in my opinion back in 2009 - when they had decent starting pitching and very good hitting and speed.

    Now that they're top-heavy in regards to pitching with many dollars invested, there simply isn't enough money (or farm system from past trades) to add significant value to the lineup without being creative. Offensively, this team did best when it combined power (3-4 20+ HR guys) and speed (110+ SBs). The power remains to be seen, but prior to Revere, this team had a pace of 60 SBs this season with only Rollins projecting over 20.

    There are still alot of IFs on this team. But IF Ryan can stay healthy for 80% of the season, Chase can stay relatively healthy and perform at 75% of what he was, and Jimmy takes his hacks for the fences as usual, that could be 3 20+ HR guys there. Add in either a FA corner OFer with power or a Brown/Ruf platoon, and maybe you can get your 4th position producing that many.

    One fallacy I keep hearing (and this was in response to BJ Upton's signing) is radio hosts and such saying this team needs to reduce strikeouts - not add them. If they took the time to look, they'd see the 2012 Phillies had the FEWEST strikeouts in the NL. When this offense was just getting into a groove back in 2007, they had the 3rd MOST strikeouts in the NL.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky5 View Post
    What do you guys think about signing Hamilton?
    Personally, I'm not all that big on 3 LHers in a row (Utley, Howard, Hamilton) as we saw how pitchers lined up when Ibanez was hitting 5th. That's one of the main reasons I wanted Upton (or to a lesser point - Swisher) here because they can hit RHed in that spot. But that was also under the assumption that Hamiton would get 6-7 years carrying baggage and soon to enter his downside seasons. BUT, now that 3-4 years is in play, my thoughts have changed. In a 7-year deal, he'd need to be highly productive for four of those seasons to make the investment worthwhile. But at 4 years, he only needs to be at the top of his game for two of them. Much safer IMO.

    I still think either another team comes in late (it could even be the Phillies now) like the Angels did with Pujols last year and possibly lay 5 years on the table.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  24. #99
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    @Trevmay54

    Was an honor to be a part of Phillies organization for the past 5 years. I am truly grateful up for everything they have done for me.

    @VANIMAL_49

    Hey #Philly loved playing for you guys. I am grateful for the opportunity the @Phillies gave me. Thank you.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post
    @Trevmay54

    Was an honor to be a part of Phillies organization for the past 5 years. I am truly grateful up for everything they have done for me.

    @VANIMAL_49

    Hey #Philly loved playing for you guys. I am grateful for the opportunity the @Phillies gave me. Thank you.
    What's sad is that Worley was working out at Citizens Bank Park when he received the news of the trade.
    Worley held a small place in Phillies franchise history. According to one writer's reckoning, when he debuted for the team on July 24, 2010, Worley was the 1,000th Phillie of the
    Post-World War Two Era (1946 to present)

    This may not be the end of their time in the Phillies organization. Particularly if the Phillies get a new GM in the next few years. Worley will be a Free Agent after the 2016 season. If May reaches the majors in the next two years he'll be a free agent sometime between 2019 & 2021. In this day of Free Agency returning to a team that has dealt you away is always possible. It's always best for a player not to "Burn His Bridges" in these situations.

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