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Thread: 2012/2013 New York Yankees Off-Season Thread

  1. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    I think we should take a look at Manny. We need a right-handed DH.
    Can't find anyone more useless or older?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

  2. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Can't find anyone more useless or older?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
    Ibanez is a year older and will be more expensive, and I think Manny can do better. Or not. He is a question mark, but invite him this Spring.
    Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

  3. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    Ibanez is a year older and will be more expensive, and I think Manny can do better. Or not. He is a question mark, but invite him this Spring.
    Manny won't cut his dreads....
    Man, do I *HATE* the Yankees!!!!!!

  4. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    DeWayne Wise?

    Chris Dickerson?
    I like DeWayne Wise...he's an underrated player. He's also a White Sox so the Yankees can't sign him.
    Dickerson is a Yankee, so the Yanks, technically, can't sign him either.

    Now, support your assertion that these players are Ichiro's equals

  5. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
    What would "prove" it short of a declarative statement, which I doubt he would make? I don't think he was miserable. I do think he wanted to play for a contender, and the change of scenery helped him. That's not a big stretch of imagination. Regardless of lack of qualifiable or quanitifiable evidence (same goes with the misery here) change of scenery can be good for hitting in more ways than one. It doesn't always work out that way, of course.
    This comes up a lot. So and so is going to perform better because he's happy, in the right-situation, whatever.

    Now, I certainly believe that a player can play worse because he's unhappy. Baseball players are humans with emotions, not robots, but it seems to usually turn out like this.

    Rod Barajas was traded from the Mets to the Dodgers late in 2010. With the Mets he had hit .263/.414. In line with his career norm of .284/.407. With the Dodgers he hit .361/.578.

    The narrative was that since he was born in California and grew up in California he was happy to be home. The Dodgers signed him for 2011. He responded to the happiness by hitting .287/.430. Right at his career norms.

    I think Ichiro is better than he showed his last 2 years in Seattle. I don't think he's as good as his half season with the Yankees. Figure him for something in between.

  6. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    I like DeWayne Wise...he's an underrated player. He's also a White Sox so the Yankees can't sign him.
    Dickerson is a Yankee, so the Yanks, technically, can't sign him either.

    Now, support your assertion that these players are Ichiro's equals
    Check Wise's stats versus Suzuki last year.

    Dickerson was not given a shot. But he did very well in AAA.

    And both are quality defenders who can play all 3 of positions well not just fake cf.

    Suzuki has been the 7th worst player in baseball over the last couple of years.

    Neither of them are on that list.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

  7. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Check Wise's stats versus Suzuki last year.
    You think I didn't? What am I looking for, specifically?

  8. #333
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  9. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by raysnbran View Post
    Woo Hoo!!!!

  10. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    You think I didn't? What am I looking for, specifically?
    Suzuki wRC+ 90
    Wise wRC+ 90

    Suzuki played far more so counting stats give him an edge but he did not earn that playing time.

    And before you start. I am not saying Wise is a great or even good player. He is terrible. So is Suzuki.

  11. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Suzuki wRC+ 90
    Wise wRC+ 90
    Well...yeah.

    The best 239 plate appearances of Wise's career were equal to the worst season of Ichiro's career.

    Wise's career wRC+ = 65
    Ichiro's career wRC+ = 110

    Bill James' projections, which aren't a forward-looking-crystal-ball of exactitude but do give us a starting point give us the following for 2013:
    Wise .284/.394 (OBP/SLG) which is a .293 wOBA
    Ichiro .331/.370 (OBP/SLG) which is a .304 wOBA

    Actually pretty close. Closer than I would have thought.

    One thing to consider though. Wise gets his playing time leveraged so that he avoids batting against left-handed pitchers.
    In Wise's career, he's only faced lefties 17% of the time (176 of 1023 career plate appearances). The reason, his career wRC+ vs lefties is 40.
    Ichiro, and every day player, faces lefties a bit more than 1/3 of the time. His career wRC+ vs lefties is 115

    Now you still haven't shown that his base running and defense are equal to Ichiro's.
    Ichiro has 133.1 fielding runs saved and 68.3 baserunning runs in 8723 PA's. For a total of 201 runs.
    Wise has 18.8 fielding runs saved and 1.1 baserunning runs in 1118 PA's

    Given an equal number of PA's to Ichiro Wise would have 147 fielding runs and 8.6 baserunning runs. A total of 155 runs.

    So, Ichiro comes out on top there.

    Of course, Ichiro has declined since his heyday, so we can't expect those numbers to continue but Wise still has some ground to make up.


    It's closer than I thought. Still think it is obvious that Ichiro is the better player though.

    Now, would trading for Wise, and having a right-handed platoon partner, and using Ichiro's money to re-sign Russ Martin have put the Yankees, in a better spot? Maybe.

  12. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by raysnbran View Post
    Wish him the best and it's a good fit for him (and a nice raise). I thought Brian could sign him and he did better than I expected (love that one game with 2 HRs). A bargain last year at 1.1M. I would like to give a young OFer a chance as back up rather than a older part time player. I was a Wise guy in the beginning but Ichiro prove me wrong. I agree with filihok (??).

  13. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by clipper View Post
    Wish him the best and it's a good fit for him (and a nice raise).
    It's a bad fit for him.

    Safeco is notably death for left-handed hitters. Though they are moving the fences, so that should help some.
    He's also a DH. Seattle has about 5 DH's right now, so not sure how much playing time Ibanez will get.

  14. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    Well...yeah.

    The best 239 plate appearances of Wise's career were equal to the worst season of Ichiro's career.

    Wise's career wRC+ = 65
    Ichiro's career wRC+ = 110

    Bill James' projections, which aren't a forward-looking-crystal-ball of exactitude but do give us a starting point give us the following for 2013:
    Wise .284/.394 (OBP/SLG) which is a .293 wOBA
    Ichiro .331/.370 (OBP/SLG) which is a .304 wOBA

    Actually pretty close. Closer than I would have thought.

    One thing to consider though. Wise gets his playing time leveraged so that he avoids batting against left-handed pitchers.
    In Wise's career, he's only faced lefties 17% of the time (176 of 1023 career plate appearances). The reason, his career wRC+ vs lefties is 40.
    Ichiro, and every day player, faces lefties a bit more than 1/3 of the time. His career wRC+ vs lefties is 115

    Now you still haven't shown that his base running and defense are equal to Ichiro's.
    Ichiro has 133.1 fielding runs saved and 68.3 baserunning runs in 8723 PA's. For a total of 201 runs.
    Wise has 18.8 fielding runs saved and 1.1 baserunning runs in 1118 PA's

    Given an equal number of PA's to Ichiro Wise would have 147 fielding runs and 8.6 baserunning runs. A total of 155 runs.

    So, Ichiro comes out on top there.

    Of course, Ichiro has declined since his heyday, so we can't expect those numbers to continue but Wise still has some ground to make up.


    It's closer than I thought. Still think it is obvious that Ichiro is the better player though.

    Now, would trading for Wise, and having a right-handed platoon partner, and using Ichiro's money to re-sign Russ Martin have put the Yankees, in a better spot? Maybe.
    You are comparing Suzuki's career. Not what he is now. He is no longer a full time player, showing significant splits. Wise is no prospect but closer to his prime. If you can call it a prime. Suzuki has been in severe decline over the past few years. I am not saying that Wise had the better career. That is a joke. But he is probably the better player now. Or at least comparable.

    And yes, the team would be better with Wise or Dickerson in RF and Martin at catcher, than Suzuki in RF and Stewart at C.

  15. #340
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    A year ago, all you did was bash Jeter and how he has declined so much and should just retire. Glad you have moved on to someone else.
    Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

  16. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    A year ago, all you did was bash Jeter and how he has declined so much and should just retire. Glad you have moved on to someone else.
    Jeter had a great dead cat bounce. Don't keep expecting it.

  17. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Jeter had a great dead cat bounce. Don't keep expecting it.
    Come on, his 2012 surprised you and not me, admit it.
    Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

  18. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    Come on, his 2012 surprised you and not me, admit it.
    It unquestionably surprised me. He had a tremendous offensive season at a point in his career where you cannot expect that.

    He also was downright horrific in the field, even by his standards. And managed to hurt himself while doing it.

    Plus he did almost all of his damage against lefties, registering a 157 wRC+ but only 99 against righties. That 99 is not bad for a SS, but calling Jeter a SS is a stretch.

    All that said, I do not think you can expect him to come close to those numbers in 2013.

  19. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    You are comparing Suzuki's career. Not what he is now.
    I clearly indicated that above, but thanks for rehashing.

    He is no longer a full time player, showing significant splits.
    Which split?

  20. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    This comes up a lot. So and so is going to perform better because he's happy, in the right-situation, whatever.

    Now, I certainly believe that a player can play worse because he's unhappy. Baseball players are humans with emotions, not robots, but it seems to usually turn out like this.

    Rod Barajas was traded from the Mets to the Dodgers late in 2010. With the Mets he had hit .263/.414. In line with his career norm of .284/.407. With the Dodgers he hit .361/.578.

    The narrative was that since he was born in California and grew up in California he was happy to be home. The Dodgers signed him for 2011. He responded to the happiness by hitting .287/.430. Right at his career norms.

    I think Ichiro is better than he showed his last 2 years in Seattle. I don't think he's as good as his half season with the Yankees. Figure him for something in between.
    What does Rod Barajas have to do with Ichiro? I think the change of scenery helped Ichiro. Not that a change of scenery always helps. or lack thereof harms. In this case, just this one case, it well might have. Is it the sole reason? of course not, but who said that? He probably is better than what he did in Seattle the last two years and not as good as he finished in New York. I won't argue with that.
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  21. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
    What does Rod Barajas have to do with Ichiro?
    Because it's the exact same situation.

    Player joins new team late in the season. Performs much better than he was expected. People say it's because he's much happier on the new team and expect his performance to continue the next season.

    With Barajas, it certainly didn't.

    Of course, one instance doesn't prove anything.

  22. #347
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    Just because something can't be quantified doesn't mean it's nonexistent.

  23. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    I clearly indicated that above, but thanks for rehashing.


    Which split?
    You indicated it but ignored it and pretended that the ghost of Suzuki was the one time MVP.

    I stand corrected on the splits. I had read how they got much worse. Really not that bad. 80 wRC+ vs. 97 wRC+. He is pretty equal opportunity garbage.

  24. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    You indicated it but ignored it and pretended that the ghost of Suzuki was the one time MVP.

    I stand corrected on the splits. I had read how they got much worse. Really not that bad. 80 wRC+ vs. 97 wRC+. He is pretty equal opportunity garbage.
    Assuming he plays 150+ games next year, can I have your predictions on stats?
    Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

  25. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    Assuming he plays 150+ games next year, can I have your predictions on stats?
    Ooh, lemme try:

    Assuming 600 AB

    .266/.302/.358, 160 hits, 6 HR, 22 doubles, 5 triples, 74 runs scored, 37 RBI, 25 stolen bases, 8 caught stealing.

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