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Thread: The short-term future of the St. Louis Cardinals

  1. #1
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    The short-term future of the St. Louis Cardinals

    Still recovering from watching the Cardinals blow a 3-1 series lead for the third time in my lifetime, I started to think about what is around the corner for the Cardinals...

    Going into next season, the Cardinals can chose from Carpenter, Wainwright, Westbrook, Lynn, Garcia, Kelly, Rosenthal, and Miller to be the top 5 starters. IF any of these guys struggle with health or development, the Cardinals are almost guaranteed 5 solid starters. Whoever doesn't make the team can go into the bullpen. If Kelly, Rosenthal, and Miller go to the pen, the Cardinals could have 5 right-handed relievers with decent control and 95+ MPH pitches. This doesn't even count Martinez or Tyrell Jenkins who could be up in 2014.

    Tavaras and Wong will be up in the next few years and both look to be huge impact players. Matt Adams will make some great trade bait. The core of Tavaras, Wong, Freese, Craig, Molina, Holliday, and Jay are as good as a young group of players that the Cardinals have had in ages.

    With the contracts of Berkman, Loshe, Carpenter, Furcal, Westbrook, and Beltran ($70 mill.) coming off the books over the next two years, the Cardinals will have tons of cheap, young, talents and millions to work with.

    The future looks very bright in St. Louis. I have seen many publications rank the Cardinal system in the top 3.
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  2. #2
    when are the Cards going to get some LH pitching?
    1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
    when are the Cards going to get some LH pitching?
    A healthy Garcia is a solid starter and Scrabble has been okay in his career so far, even though he had a very rough start to this season. That is probably their biggest free-agent signing issue this Winter. Of course signing a lefty reliever who only has to get out lefties is not a particularly expensive proposition.

    If your teams biggest ??? going forward is your lefty specialist...that is very, very good news.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  4. #4
    the whole pitching staff (well the starters anyway) are question marks due to health and other issues

    this reminds of the line John Madden had in 1993 when the Detroit Lions boasted 3 quarterbacks - "if you have 3 quarterbacks, you don't have any quarterback"

    carpenter garcia wainwright westbrook etc are all health question marks

    the other guys are young untested question marks

    loshe is gone

    trouble city

    solid pitching is the backbone and lends stability to the team

    outslugging teams 11-3 then losing 4-2 games is not a recipe for success that was the 2012 cards in a microcosm

    and the cards were lucky to even be in the nlcs (admit it) if they can rally to win a game (down 6-0 early and by 2 runs LATE) , another team can rally to win 3 games (and outscore you 20-1!)

    and strasburg did not even pitch

    you cant fall into the old dallas cowboy syndrome "they were lucky, but we were good"
    Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 10-30-2012 at 06:51 PM.
    1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
    2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://somgamersparadiseforum.smfforfree4.com/index.php

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
    and the cards were lucky to even be in the nlcs (admit it) if they can rally to win a game (down 6-0 early and by 2 runs LATE) , another team can rally to win 3 games (and outscore you 20-1!)
    You don't win without some luck. The SF Giants are happy to have some too.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by DerekD View Post
    You don't win without some luck. The SF Giants are happy to have some too.
    No doubt

    The Tigers were Coco Crisp catching a fly ball from being eliminated in 4 games in the first round
    1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
    2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://somgamersparadiseforum.smfforfree4.com/index.php

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
    the whole pitching staff (well the starters anyway) are question marks due to health and other issues

    this reminds of the line John Madden had in 1993 when the Detroit Lions boasted 3 quarterbacks - "if you have 3 quarterbacks, you don't have any quarterback"

    carpenter garcia wainwright westbrook etc are all health question marks

    the other guys are young untested question marks

    loshe is gone

    trouble city

    solid pitching is the backbone and lends stability to the team

    outslugging teams 11-3 then losing 4-2 games is not a recipe for success that was the 2012 cards in a microcosm

    and the cards were lucky to even be in the nlcs (admit it) if they can rally to win a game (down 6-0 early and by 2 runs LATE) , another team can rally to win 3 games (and outscore you 20-1!)

    and strasburg did not even pitch

    you cant fall into the old dallas cowboy syndrome "they were lucky, but we were good"
    Don't forget, the Giants were a blooper here and a seeing-eye single away from being swept in the NLDS by Cincinatti in that 2-1 extra inning game 3. Maybe the Ginats get swept if Arias doesn't make it on due to the error by Rolen. Anybody can play that game.

    Anyway, the Cardinals have tons of great arm/big prospect guys. Not just Rosental and Miller, but Kelly and Martinez too. If any of the guys have health problems, they have very good arms to fill in. There will be 8 capable starters fighting for 5 spots. There is a reason the Cards system is ranked top 3 in many publications. Even if half of them are busts, they will still put out 5 good starters next year. Not only that, but every team has 2-3 guys in their rotation that have injury histories or question marks.

    Plus, I was talking about "short term" outlook, not "2013" outlook, necessarily. Like I said, Westbrook and Carp will be gone after 2013, and they will be left with tons of great prospects and a whole lot of money.

    Loshe is playing with house money - everybody is glad to see his big salary and impending implosion come off the books.

    Bottom line: the future looks promising. Not that I am guaranteeing greatness, but a lot to look forward to.

    The Giants, Cardinals, Braves, Nats, and Reds all have good young teams that will be the class of the league for a awhile. The Phillies are the team that seems to be slipping and the Dodgers will be the MLB version of the Eagles...everybody but us will be shocked when they are not too good.
    Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 10-30-2012 at 10:14 PM.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  8. #8
    ...everybody but us will be shocked when they are not too good

    I like that ...
    1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
    2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://somgamersparadiseforum.smfforfree4.com/index.php

  9. #9
    what they need next year is a real ace. loshe was very good but he is not the CY candidate type of ace despite his stats. he just doesn't have that lights out stuff.

    Wainwright and Carp have the capability to be that ace but we will see if they are healthy enough to do that. If carp and wainwright are healthy and in top form all season the cards could very well be the best team in the NL but if both are not on top of their game or injured that cards staff is very mediocre despite the "depth" they have (it's nice to have 7 guys competing but if 5 of those are mediocre that doesn't help).

    really everything rises and falls with the health of carp and wainwright. they need at least one of them if not both.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

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