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Thread: So what exactly are the Mets doing, and what is being accomplished?

  1. #1
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    So what exactly are the Mets doing, and what is being accomplished?

    I know this probably belongs in the “offseason” thread, but this situation is sort of unique so I feel it deserves its own space…so here goes….

    Does anyone remember during the season when Wright and Dickey seemed to be on the same page as far as where the team is going, and that they seemed to have a united front regarding what they were going to do? Well what happened?

    Wright gets signed to a great contract, but now they are out there trying to trade RA. So what is being accomplished here? They lock up one guy with enough money that he can turn a blind eye to the actual state of the team. I am not blaming Wright because that kind of money is hard to say no to, but from a fans perspective the Mets can be potentially much worse in 2013 than in 2012 with the trading of RA.

    My view point was you either keep both OR trade both. This one foot in the water and one out mentality is going to go nowhere very quickly. Either you rebuild from scratch or piece it together now. I understand piecing together now is going to take some financial commitment. Under the Wilscum regime I know that’s probably not going to happen.

    So by keeping Wright and trading RA they are sort of rebuilding, like being a little pregnant. This “rebuild” will take several years, and at that point Wright is 32-33, maybe 34-35. Which means he wasted nearly his whole career here.

    The real problem here is that pom-pom fans are still puffing their chest that the Mets locked up Wright. To them that’s a huge move, shows that the team is serious, they locked up a “Home Grown Met”, and the face of the franchise. I say to all of that…WHAT GARBAGE. All that was, was a way to shut you up and keep you coming to Citi.

    The funny thing is if they end up not trading RA we will here “Well we never really wanted to trade him to begin with, he is a big part of this franchise…blah blah blah”. More propaganda for the pom-pom’ers. The point is as of today they rather trade him then keep which tells me they are looking well beyond 2013 to put any kind of team on the field.

    Every time you think this team hit an all time low in disregard for its fans or stupidity they come up with something that really takes it to a whole new level.

    Trading them both or signing them both were they only two options in my opinion.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 12-05-2012 at 10:19 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    I know this probably belongs in the “offseason” thread, but this situation is sort of unique so I feel it deserves its own space…so here goes….

    Does anyone remember during the season when Wright and Dickey seemed to be on the same page as far as where the team is going, and that they seemed to have a united front regarding what they were going to do? Well what happened?

    Wright gets signed to a great contract, but now they are out there trying to trade RA. So what is being accomplished here? They lock up one guy with enough money that he can turn a blind eye to the actual state of the team. I am not blaming Wright because that kind of money is hard to say no to, but from a fans perspective the Mets can be potentially much worse in 2013 than in 2012 with the trading of RA.

    My view point was you either keep both OR trade both. This one foot in the water and one out mentality is going to go nowhere very quickly. Either you rebuild from scratch or piece it together now. I understand piecing together now is going to take some financial commitment. Under the Wilscum regime I know that’s probably not going to happen.

    So by keeping Wright and trading RA they are sort of rebuilding, like being a little pregnant. This “rebuild” will take several years, and at that point Wright is 32-33, maybe 34-35. Which means he wasted nearly his whole career here.

    The real problem here is that pom-pom fans are still puffing their chest that the Mets locked up Wright. To them that’s a huge move, shows that the team is serious, they locked up a “Home Grown Met”, and the face of the franchise. I say to all of that…WHAT GARBAGE. All that was, was a way to shut you up and keep you coming to Citi.

    The funny thing is if they end up not trading RA we will here “Well we never really wanted to trade him to begin with, he is a big part of this franchise…blah blah blah”. More propaganda for the pom-pom’ers. The point is as of today they rather trade him then keep which tells me they are looking well beyond 2013 to put any kind of team on the field.

    Every time you think this team hit an all time low in disregard for its fans or stupidity they come up with something that really takes it to a whole new level.

    Trading them both or signing them both were they only two options in my opinion.
    The Wilpons are looking ahead to 2016, when they open the giant shopping complex on the rest of the eastern parking lots and whatever land they can forcibly confiscate across the street. They'll probably do a 2005 style quick fix around 2015. They don't really care much about being good until then. They needed to keep Wright or risk losing hard core laundry fans, also he'll still probably be effective in three or four seasons.

    Until they need fans to show up and buy things at the new complex they probably see little need to improve the team, as the current arrangement is comfortably profitable. The big profits from SNY won't do much to make them money at all the new stores, though. They'll need people to show up.

    I've been pretty good at predicting these things in the past. This is my best guess of how the next few years will work. Bear in mind they haven't spent a cent yet, and probably won't for at least another year. Just know ahead in advance why it's all happening when it happens. They won't changing their ways. They'll still be just as cheap, cynical and Met/Met-fan hating as ever. Accordingly expect them to cut corners and put out flawed, incomplete teams. Notice they're still cheap in signing draftees and prospects. When they sign a few free agents, they'll likely be sprinkled over an inadequate foundation, like in the 2005-2009 period. Expect them to charge obscene prices when they take advantage of fans' false hope a champion is being built. Expect certain posters to reappear and argue the Wilpons aren't cheap, vile and Mets hating. Of course they'll be wrong.

    But don't expect much the next year or maybe two. Timing also depends on legal challenges from the Willets Point business owners.

    In my opinion that's what the Mets are doing and that's what's being accomplished.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  3. #3
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    Pretty good piece on SI about what return R.A. might bring if dealt. It's realistic about the possible trade partners and which prospects might be on the table.

    http://mlb.si.com/2012/12/04/r-a-dic...1_a0&eref=sihp

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIBaseball View Post
    Pretty good piece on SI about what return R.A. might bring if dealt. It's realistic about the possible trade partners and which prospects might be on the table.

    http://mlb.si.com/2012/12/04/r-a-dic...1_a0&eref=sihp
    Any prospective trades should be filed under the WFAN "Hey, Mike...first time/long time ...this is Joey from Brooklyn and I think the Mets should trade Ollie and Castillo to St Louis for Pujols".

    The Mets are not known for outsmarting everyone else. They won the Beltran-Wheeler trade only because the Giants wanted a piece for a 3 peat.

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    I think that R. A. Dickey represents the kind of individual whom the Mets should keep if for no other reason than to create a clubhouse atmosphere that might help a great many young players. I would expect that he could be at least as effective on and off the field as was Tim Wakefield with Boston. Wakefield is one of Dickey's fans, of course.

    I can't imagine Dickey on the current Red Sox, who seem to have more than the average number of sociopaths still there, but it may happen. I know the 1986 Mets had lots of sociopaths too, but these are different times, at least in MLB.

    So, I hope the Mets keep Dickey.
    Last edited by Joe Barrie; 12-05-2012 at 06:32 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Barrie View Post
    I think that R. A. Dickey represents the kind of individual whom the Mets should keep if for no other reason than to create a clubhouse atmosphere that might help a great many young players. I would expect that he could be at least as effective on and off the field as was Tim Wakefield with Boston. Wakefield is one of Dickey's fans, of course.

    I can't imagine Dickey on the current Red Sox, who seem to have more than the average number of sociopaths still there, but it may happen. I know the 1986 Mets had lots of sociopaths too, but these are different times, at least in MLB.

    So, I hope the Mets keep Dickey.
    If the Mets want to get near 70 wins they better keep Dickey. Now that Wright has been signed it only makes sense to me to sign Dickey.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    If the Mets want to get near 70 wins they better keep Dickey. Now that Wright has been signed it only makes sense to me to sign Dickey.
    I agree - it completely asinine to sign Wright long-term for big bucks and then move Dickey for the equivalent of a Lotto ticket on talent. Signing Wright means "win in next 5 years." That's it. Complete change of direction for this front office, too.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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    I think the Dickey to Texas for Mike Olt rumors that were bouncing around are quite interesting. If they do lose out on Greinke and turn to Dickey, it'd be hard for Alderson not to make that move.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post
    I think the Dickey to Texas for Mike Olt rumors that were bouncing around are quite interesting. If they do lose out on Greinke and turn to Dickey, it'd be hard for Alderson not to make that move.
    To trade the Cy Young winner for an unproven third-baseman just after you've signed one to a 7-year extension? Makes zero sense at all.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    To trade the Cy Young winner for an unproven third-baseman just after you've signed one to a 7-year extension? Makes zero sense at all.
    Strawman

    We both know (along with a few others) that if the Mets traded away RA Dickey for even someone like K-Rod, there would be a few members here saying what a brilliant move it is; how this proves the Mets are on the right path; and the R A bashing would be incredible.

    The man won a CY Young. Only the 3rd Met to ever do this. SIGN HIM. Not one single person on here is going to see the price of their tickets decrease if they don't sign Dickey. Just sign him; if a team blows you away with a trade offer AFTER he signs an extension, that is another matter.

    Just sign Dickey to an extension.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    Strawman

    We both know (along with a few others) that if the Mets traded away RA Dickey for even someone like K-Rod, there would be a few members here saying what a brilliant move it is; how this proves the Mets are on the right path; and the R A bashing would be incredible.

    The man won a CY Young. Only the 3rd Met to ever do this. SIGN HIM. Not one single person on here is going to see the price of their tickets decrease if they don't sign Dickey. Just sign him; if a team blows you away with a trade offer AFTER he signs an extension, that is another matter.

    Just sign Dickey to an extension.
    Couldn't agree more. His arm is fine, he's a workhorse, and he competes every single game he starts. His prime is likely to last into his early 40s. You just signed a 30-year-old 3B to an 8-year deal. The play is no longer "rebuild" - it's win ASAP or the Wright signing is stupid. This talk of trading Dickey for a minor leaguer from Texas who has played 5 - count' em! - 5 games in the outfield is basically insane. If Texas pulls off that robbery from Alderson and Co. they deserve to go to the World Series again.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Couldn't agree more. His arm is fine, he's a workhorse, and he competes every single game he starts. His prime is likely to last into his early 40s. You just signed a 30-year-old 3B to an 8-year deal. The play is no longer "rebuild" - it's win ASAP or the Wright signing is stupid. This talk of trading Dickey for a minor leaguer from Texas who has played 5 - count' em! - 5 games in the outfield is basically insane. If Texas pulls off that robbery from Alderson and Co. they deserve to go to the World Series again.
    Locking up your cornerstone is not considered a "win ASAP" move...

  13. #13
    Well they signed Wright... And... Umm... Well... Uh.... Isn't it obvious? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING would be the answer. Sandy Alderson must have given David Wright the BS story of the millennium in order to get him to sign again. And David obviously has to be super naive to believe in what he had to say to him on that golf course. Perhaps the sun was beating down hard on both of them and they were delirious.

    I'm not saying do what we've done in years past but... At least DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!

    A message to Sandy... A note to the Wilpons... IT'S JUST TIME TO GET OUT. Mets fans are just not interested in the product you will be putting on that field for '13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Couldn't agree more. His arm is fine, he's a workhorse, and he competes every single game he starts. His prime is likely to last into his early 40s. You just signed a 30-year-old 3B to an 8-year deal. The play is no longer "rebuild" - it's win ASAP or the Wright signing is stupid. This talk of trading Dickey for a minor leaguer from Texas who has played 5 - count' em! - 5 games in the outfield is basically insane. If Texas pulls off that robbery from Alderson and Co. they deserve to go to the World Series again.
    Quote Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow View Post
    Locking up your cornerstone is not considered a "win ASAP" move...
    I dont see signing Wright as a win ASAP move. I think anyone involved knows that them winning anytime soon is a long shot at the very best.

    What I see the Wright signing as is "ok we signed your face of the franchise, your homegrown player, now shut up and buy tickets".

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    I dont see signing Wright as a win ASAP move. I think anyone involved knows that them winning anytime soon is a long shot at the very best.

    What I see the Wright signing as is "ok we signed your face of the franchise, your homegrown player, now shut up and buy tickets".
    That may be right. That may be the Aldersonian-Wilponsian reason. But from a baseball strategy standpoint, if you make that move, now you have to go out and load up for 14-15-16 and fast. You don't trade your ace, you sign guys, you bulk up, you make that run. Otherwise, you should have traded the 30-year-old 3B. Makes no baseball sense at all.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    That may be right. That may be the Aldersonian-Wilponsian reason. But from a baseball strategy standpoint, if you make that move, now you have to go out and load up for 14-15-16 and fast. You don't trade your ace, you sign guys, you bulk up, you make that run. Otherwise, you should have traded the 30-year-old 3B. Makes no baseball sense at all.
    No it doesnt make baseball sense. As I have been saying...you sign both or you sign neither, but right now under Wilscum Wright was signed not as a "baseball move", but a "shut the fans up" move. My opinion, but also very obvious.

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    The Mets should sign him and give him the $26 million two year addition. Obviously, he pitched well last year AND the two years before. He is steady, likes NYC, performs well here and is well liked on the team.

    2010 he was 11-9, 2.84 era, 1.18 WHIP team won 79 games
    2011 he was 8-13, 3.28 era, 1.22 WHIP team won 77 games
    2012 he was 20-6, 2.73 era, 1.05 WHIP Cy Young team won 74 games

    So as an NL pitcher the last 3 years, with his knuckler under control, he is 39-28, 2.95 era and a 1.15 WHIP.

    Given what other pitchers with worse numbers get, he is being VERY reasonable. The Mets should pay him not just piss him off.

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    I'd like it noted just for the record that I've left this thread alone, despite Pauly's inaugural acknowledgement and the fact that the various posts could be relocated to several different Met threads.

    Put it in the books.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    If the Mets want to get near 70 wins they better keep Dickey. Now that Wright has been signed it only makes sense to me to sign Dickey.
    74 wins without Dickey.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    I agree - it completely asinine to sign Wright long-term for big bucks and then move Dickey for the equivalent of a Lotto ticket on talent. Signing Wright means "win in next 5 years." That's it. Complete change of direction for this front office, too.
    The Dickey trade for d'Arnaud, Syndergaard and Buck hopefully, along with Wheeler, may be what Alderson is remembered for, not Cowgill. Particularly since Syndergaard was just ranked the no. 3 MLB pitching prospect.
    Last edited by LI METS FAN; 10-03-2013 at 01:47 PM.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    The Dickey trade for d'Arnaud, Syndergaard and Buck hopefully, along with Wheeler, may be what Alderson is remembered for, not Cowgill. Particularly since Syndergaard was just ranked the no. 3 MLB pitching prospect.
    Ranking = nothing at all. Bupkis. We've had tons of ranked, listed players. Let's see what he does at the top level.

    D'Arnaud is a bust and Buck is gone, so that trade hinges on Syndergaard now...
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Ranking = nothing at all. Bupkis. We've had tons of ranked, listed players. Let's see what he does at the top level.

    D'Arnaud is a bust and Buck is gone, so that trade hinges on Syndergaard now...

    D'Arnaud is a bust? You are ready to make that decison so quickly? Statements like that are why I will trust the guys who get paid to rank talent over emotional fans. They may not be right all the time but at least there opinions are based on facts and not emotions. You may be right, but no way can you make that decision after such a small sample size. Just like the team could not have the worst outfield ever based on April stats and it could not be determined that Wheeler had no heart after 4 starts. There are plenty of things to focus negativity on, but in no way what so ever can anyone make an intelligent decision about D'Arnaud based on the less than 2 months he played in 2013.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    D'Arnaud is a bust? You are ready to make that decison so quickly? Statements like that are why I will trust the guys who get paid to rank talent over emotional fans. They may not be right all the time but at least there opinions are based on facts and not emotions. You may be right, but no way can you make that decision after such a small sample size. Just like the team could not have the worst outfield ever based on April stats and it could not be determined that Wheeler had no heart after 4 starts. There are plenty of things to focus negativity on, but in no way what so ever can anyone make an intelligent decision about D'Arnaud based on the less than 2 months he played in 2013.
    1. D'Arnaud is a bust ... so far. Haven't liked what I've seen, especially at the plate and with the arm. Not as advertised, not yet anyway. He's been hurt. Next year, Johnny Bench?

    2. Wheeler was very good, I give him credit - but I don't think he's going to be a number one on a very good team. And some in the FO still have some doubts on make-up (not saying he "has no heart"):

    Plus, those who had concerns about his personality fitting the New York market have not changed their minds after observing Wheeler during his rookie season. If anything, those concerns have grown.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/bas...g-zack-wheeler

    3. That outfield was horrible to start the year - hideous. A pathetic joke. That was pre-Young and Lagares.

    I'm just saying these minor league rankings and lists are just so much noise. Who even knows if Synergaard (No. 3!) is better than Montero (only No. 50) - heck his actual performance wasn't. So it's all guesswork.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Ranking = nothing at all. Bupkis. We've had tons of ranked, listed players. Let's see what he does at the top level.

    D'Arnaud is a bust and Buck is gone, so that trade hinges on Syndergaard now...
    There is no way one can tell that d'Arnaud is a bust. You can hope he is a bust but the ML at bats aren't enough to tell. He appears to be a fine young man. And Buck became Vic Black who is promising.

  25. #25
    Also a catcher who isn't an immortal one of a kind player like Bench isn't a bust. He is merely not Bench. One was 14 for 86 in his first yr and one was 20 for 99 in his first yr. Means nothing as far as a comparison.
    Last edited by LI METS FAN; 10-03-2013 at 09:07 PM.

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