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Thread: The death of the walker

  1. #1
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    The death of the walker

    What's up with this? There was only one player in all of MLB with over 100 walks, and that was Adam Dunn who barely made it with 105. When was the last time this happened? Will we ever see a 150 walk player again? We always talk about the death of the base stealer, and how we might not see 100 again. Well, under the radar is the walker!
    Last edited by White Knight; 12-06-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    What's up with this? There was only one player in all of MLB with over 100 walks, and that was Adam Dunn who barely made it with 105. When was the last time this happened? Will we ever see a 150 walk player again? We always talk about the death of the base stealer, and how we might not see 100 again. Well, under the radar is the walker!
    In a non strike year....1986, Wade Boggs at 105.

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    Strikeout rates are at an all-time high, while walk rates are the lowest since 1968.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ipitch View Post
    Strikeout rates are at an all-time high, while walk rates are the lowest since 1968.
    While the team I root for is probably the least patient in the entire sport. The Pirates have set the franchise record for getting fanned four years in a row. The Buccos could surely use a healthy jolt of patience.

    2.70 BB per vs 8.36 SO per

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    Double Post

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    So why do you guys think players are walking less? Is it because pitchers have less fear in going after the hitter, strike zone changes, or less patient/less good-eye hitters?
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    So why do you guys think players are walking less? Is it because pitchers have less fear in going after the hitter, strike zone changes, or less patient/less good-eye hitters?
    Mainly this.

    When HR rates were at all-time highs during the steroid era, pitchers needed to be much more careful.

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    That is strange, I would have never thought only one player had 100 walks. With the way saber stats have taken over I would feel players would be taking more walks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
    That is strange, I would have never thought only one player had 100 walks. With the way saber stats have taken over I would feel players would be taking more walks.
    Well the pitchers are all focused on having lower WHIPs and FIPs :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    So why do you guys think players are walking less? Is it because pitchers have less fear in going after the hitter, strike zone changes, or less patient/less good-eye hitters?
    Reasoning i have heard before - latin players are taught to be free swingers (sosa, starlin castro, vlad guerrero), which in the end would mean less walks plus higher k's

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap78 View Post
    Reasoning i have heard before - latin players are taught to be free swingers (sosa, starlin castro, vlad guerrero), which in the end would mean less walks plus higher k's
    But a lot of hitters that have high K's, they walk a lot like Dunn and Abreu (in his prime). David Ortiz doesn't fall into that stereotype of Dominican players who are free swingers. But I agree, most of them are free swingers with low OBP (by low OBP I mean the gap between their OBP and average is less than .050).

    Anyway, I think one of the reasons why batters walk less nowadays is because pitchers are more aggressive now. They want to throw more strikes. In 2000, 36 pitchers had 80 or more walks (7 in the 100s). Compare that to 2012. Only 11 pitchers had 80 or more walks (2 in the 100s).
    Using a stolen chant from Boston Celtics fans whenever an L.A. team is playing up there just reeks of inferiority complex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnderPressure View Post
    But a lot of hitters that have high K's, they walk a lot like Dunn and Abreu (in his prime). David Ortiz doesn't fall into that stereotype of Dominican players who are free swingers. But I agree, most of them are free swingers with low OBP (by low OBP I mean the gap between their OBP and average is less than .050).

    Anyway, I think one of the reasons why batters walk less nowadays is because pitchers are more aggressive now. They want to throw more strikes. In 2000, 36 pitchers had 80 or more walks (7 in the 100s). Compare that to 2012. Only 11 pitchers had 80 or more walks (2 in the 100s).
    Once Moneyball became the mainstream strategy it became less effective as the strategic field slowly leveled. Pitchers are now throwing more 1st. strike straight fastballs than 5 or so years ago. While many folks, among them BBF posters; regard the low scoring of the past 2 years as a result of steroid testing, the Social Darwinism aspect of competition is ever present.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    So why do you guys think players are walking less? Is it because pitchers have less fear in going after the hitter, strike zone changes, or less patient/less good-eye hitters?
    Pitchers era. also it seems to me like the strike zone has become a little larger but I cannot prove it.

    walks seem to correlate with runs, when runs are down pitchers are less afraid to throw strikes. league walks are lowest since 1988:
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/bat.shtml
    Last edited by dominik; 12-07-2012 at 12:53 AM.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    Well the pitchers are all focused on having lower WHIPs and FIPs :-)
    Warren Spahn was heard to lament on his deathbed; "My only regret is that I didn't have a higher ERA+. I'm so overrated! My 363 wins are meaningless!" It was very sad.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    Well the pitchers are all focused on having lower WHIPs and FIPs :-)
    that is a good point. as a reaction to the patient "drive the pitch count up" approach that hitters used (especially red sox and yankee teams of the 00s were famous for that approach-sometimes in the first innings it looked like the prefered striking out on 5 pitches than getting a hit on the first) pitchers were really drilled to "get ahead early" in the count (throw first and second pitch strikes) and avoid walks. walks were considered as the pitchers death (not wrongly) and so pitchers do anything to avoid them and keep their BB/9 down.

    pounding the zone is en vogue now and pitchers like halladay made a living out of pounding the zone against the uber patient AL east hitters. the decreases walks a lot.

    on top of that some teams (especially in the NL) start to counter that pitchers approach with more free swinging. the 10 and 12 champion giants have no patience at all and that certainly limited their offense somewhat but in the post season against the best pitchers that really pound the zone that can actually be an advantage. that developement further decreases the walks.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  16. #16
    The medical care for pitchers is better, and there usually isn't that Mark Prior or Kerry Wood level of abuse. They recognize the need to minimize pitches/out, so they throw strikes. And there aren't as many 35+ HR hitters.
    (fantasy football)
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    JM: I don't know where Lou is right now. He's probably fleeing the authorities [laughs].

  17. #17
    Does anyone know if hit and run's have surged lately?

    Walks and taking pitches have been high over-valued for the last ten years so I'm glad they're going down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    So why do you guys think players are walking less? Is it because pitchers have less fear in going after the hitter, strike zone changes, or less patient/less good-eye hitters?
    Yes. Pitchers are throwing harder and using more moving fastballs (cutter, two-seamer) as their primary pitch. They have realized that hitters not using steroids are much less intimidating

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz View Post
    Does anyone know if hit and run's have surged lately?

    Walks and taking pitches have been high over-valued for the last ten years so I'm glad they're going down.

    Jeff Francouer is that you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    Well the pitchers are all focused on having lower WHIPs and FIPs :-)
    I was blown away a few years ago when Zack Grienke said the most important stat for him was FIP!

    http://sabr.org/content/zack-greinke
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by m8644 View Post
    Jeff Francouer is that you?

    Nope, just a baseball fan with common sense.

  22. #22
    maybe players need to learn how to take a walk:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMxMnSd9rhY
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz View Post
    Does anyone know if hit and run's have surged lately?

    Walks and taking pitches have been high over-valued for the last ten years so I'm glad they're going down.
    Disagree big time. Almost nothing is more exciting than watching a .450+ OBP guy. Baseball severely needs his return.
    Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz View Post
    Nope, just a baseball fan with common sense.

    common sense would say that players who make less outs are usually better than players who make more outs......as would research from baseball history as to which type of teams score more runs over the course of a season.
    "all the mets road wins against the dodgers this year have occured at Dodger Stadium"---Ralph Kiner

    "Blind people came to the park just to listen to him pitch"---Reggie Jackson, talking about Tom Seaver

  25. #25
    of course walks are good. getting on base is always good. however when scoring drops everything is going down and not just walks. hits, XBH and HRs also decline as walks do.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

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