Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 101 to 124 of 124

Thread: ESPN's Top 100 MLB Players of All Time

  1. #101
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Northern plains
    Posts
    3,160
    Quote Originally Posted by fenrir View Post
    Actually, yes. I suspect if they weren't, Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan would have made the top 25.
    .
    You know that, or did they just vote for the top 100?

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    5,180
    Quote Originally Posted by fenrir View Post
    Actually, yes. I suspect if they weren't, Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan would have made the top 25.
    .
    Without a doubt.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    795
    I heard a podcast w/ David Schoenfield, and basically he heavily favored the moderns ala Bonds, Rocket, etc. I don't fault the thinking, though it seems odd to me, he and the host diss Black Jack Morris as a Hof, but then in the next breath are pushing Kenny Lofton(?!)....uhh okay guys. I heard Willie Wilson was up too--

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    5,180
    Quote Originally Posted by TomBodet View Post
    I heard a podcast w/ David Schoenfield, and basically he heavily favored the moderns ala Bonds, Rocket, etc. I don't fault the thinking, though it seems odd to me, he and the host diss Black Jack Morris as a Hof, but then in the next breath are pushing Kenny Lofton(?!)....uhh okay guys. I heard Willie Wilson was up too--
    Yeah these voters are not good usually. I wish they would have credited historians vote these guys in.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Lima, Ohio
    Posts
    5,732
    Quote Originally Posted by The Commissioner View Post
    I wouldn't even rate Jordan as the best basketball player. I would have had both Chamberlain and Robertson ahead of him.

    As far as best athlete, it depends on whether they meant the best individual athlete or most dominant athlete in their sport? They never made that clear, which may account for some of the wacky voting. Either way, it still wouldn't be Jordan. If they were going for best individual athlete it should have been Jim Thorpe. If they were going for most dominant than it should have easily been Gretzky.
    I've always said that the best basketball player in my lifetime was Magic Johnson. Granted Wilt the stilt and the Big O were before my time. Most underated basketball player of all time...Tom Chambers.
    Quote
    "A ballplayer has to just go out and be mean. You can't play half-heartedly. If you do, there's someone right over your shoulder that'll take your job away. If you don't do your job, what they're paying you for, why should they pay you? You just can't put in eight hours, that's what a lot of people don't realize about athletes. Very few people realize the pressure." Dave Kingman

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Florissant, Mo.
    Posts
    16,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye View Post
    Most underated basketball player of all time...Tom Chambers.
    Akin to Arky Vaughan, I'd pick an all-timer that nobody outside of hardcore fans has ever heard of: Bob Pettit.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew C. View Post
    Akin to Arky Vaughan, I'd pick an all-timer that nobody outside of hardcore fans has ever heard of: Bob Pettit.
    To me, Pettit is like Tris Speaker. He was a big time superstar when he played, but 50 years ago may as well be 100 in the NBA.

    Did you know Neil Armstrong delivered the eulogy at Jack Twyman's funeral? Considering how much pop culture plays into these sort of things, how's that for something you'd figure ESPN would have talked about.

    We've never taken these lists seriously here. But they're good discussion starters.
    Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Alex Sparky
    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
    Gates Philip John Warrior JEDI

  8. #108
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Rockland County, NY
    Posts
    11,419
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye View Post
    Most underated basketball player of all time...Tom Chambers.
    I'd vote Clyde Drexler. Better player than Kobe Bryant without the hype.
    Last edited by GiambiJuice; 12-17-2012 at 12:05 PM.
    RIP Bill Burgess - a gentleman and a scholar - Baseball-Fever will never be the same without you.

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Florissant, Mo.
    Posts
    16,817
    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    I'd vote Clyde Drexler.
    Esp. if you asked Clyde Drexler.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Florissant, Mo.
    Posts
    16,817
    My non-HOF nominee would be Kevin Johnson.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  11. #111
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Rockland County, NY
    Posts
    11,419
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew C. View Post
    My non-HOF nominee would be Kevin Johnson.
    Just looked up his stats and I never would have guessed his FG% was that high. .493 is very impressive for a guard.
    RIP Bill Burgess - a gentleman and a scholar - Baseball-Fever will never be the same without you.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    Just looked up his stats and I never would have guessed his FG% was that high. .493 is very impressive for a guard.
    So if Bob Pettit is Arky Vaughn or Tris Speaker, even, who is Kevin Johnson? Certainly not a player on ESPN's radar for the list. Kenny Lofton?
    Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Alex Sparky
    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
    Gates Philip John Warrior JEDI

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Florissant, Mo.
    Posts
    16,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
    So if Bob Pettit is Arky Vaughn or Tris Speaker, even, who is Kevin Johnson? Certainly not a player on ESPN's radar for the list. Kenny Lofton?
    Good comp. Speedy. CF and PG being key positions. No championships despite being on a lot of good teams. Very underrated. Championed by sabermetrics, etc.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    6,505
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
    So if Bob Pettit is Arky Vaughn or Tris Speaker, even, who is Kevin Johnson? Certainly not a player on ESPN's radar for the list. Kenny Lofton?
    Interesting. Wasn't Lofton Arizona's sixth man while KJ was starring in Phoenix?

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    6,505
    Blog Entries
    4
    deleted double post
    Last edited by PVNICK; 12-18-2012 at 06:41 AM.

  16. #116
    Can we get back to hockey now?

  17. #117
    From your keyboard to . . .

    I think the fans did a fine job, overall.
    Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Alex Sparky
    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
    Gates Philip John Warrior JEDI

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    593
    Quote Originally Posted by BigRon View Post
    I'm looking for really wacko ratings- not ones that most would say are +/- 10 or 15 spos tof where they should be.

    Already mentioned- Mize at 107. Without any war credit I see him as a 50-60 position player, which would put him in the top 75-85 when pitchers are counted. With war cedit I see him as a top 35 position player, which would put him around top 50 overall.

    Nichols- if he's a top 15 alltime pitcher, as many here seem to feel, he's in the top 50 overall- pretty far above number 82.

    Vaughan- even if he's overrated a bit on some sites, he's still a top 3-4 alltime SS, which certainly puts him in/around top 50 position players, and no lower than 70-75 overall.

    Without seeing the entire list we can't do some meaningful comparisons yet, but I think there will be a few headscratchers in there.

    Overall, better than the team of the century voting.
    They must have had their football & basketball pundits voting for the top hundred baseball players. Big John Mize 107 & Arky Vaughn 124 as you mentioned received terrible treatment by ESPN. Bill James a top baseball historian has Vaughn #2 shortstop and this list has 10 shortstops ahead
    of him, ridiculous assessment. James has Mize as the #3 1B of all time & I agree with him. In this poll 7 1B were put ahead of Mize.

    I'd put Mize easily in the top 40 & Vaughn from 40-60 would be fair. Other rating that disgusted me were Foxx at 28 top 20 easily, Simmons 99 top
    60 easily, Lefty Grove #47 to 30 easily, and Bob Feller should be rated much higher. Derek Jeter #38 really maybe 138 would be more fair!

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Middle-of-Nowhere, VA
    Posts
    1,281
    Blog Entries
    1
    Being ESPN, I figured Michael Jordan would be # 1.

    I wish that was more sarcastic than it is.

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    me
    Posts
    4,647
    frank thomas 69????? he should be top 30


    and stan musial shouldn't be in the top dozen

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by brett View Post
    The competition and depth was much deeper when Jordan played, and deeper still today. Chamberlain was going up against "top" centers who were about the same size as Jordan. Dolph Schayes was 6-7 195. Jordan was 6-6 210. Jordan lead his league in win shares in 9 straight seasons in which he began on the team's roster. He won 6 championships in leagues with an average of 250% as many teams as Russell had to beat to win 12 IOW his teams surpassed approximately 150 other teams in winning those championships, versus fewer than 100 teams that Russell's Celts surpassed in winning 12.
    Haven't looked at this thread in a while. Besides seeing a few more awful rankings, I've got to ask- Brett- where did you get the idea that Chamberlain was playing against little guys. here's a list of centers Chamberlain played against:

    Abdul- Jabbar- 7'2"
    Nate Thurmond- 6'11'
    Bob Lanier- 6'11"
    Walt Bellamy- 6'11"
    Willis Reed- 6'10"
    Bill Russell- 6'10"

    In fact, there were more accomplished big men in the NBA in the 60s and 70s than today, despite the league consisting of 1/3 to 1/2 as many teams.

    Chamberlain did play against several smaller centers, but included in that group are outstanding players like Dave Cowens, Zelmo Beatty, and Wes Unseld. Chamberlain faced more high level competition in the post than what is available in the NBA today.

  22. #122
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Northern plains
    Posts
    3,160
    Quote Originally Posted by BigRon View Post
    Haven't looked at this thread in a while. Besides seeing a few more awful rankings, I've got to ask- Brett- where did you get the idea that Chamberlain was playing against little guys. here's a list of centers Chamberlain played against:

    Abdul- Jabbar- 7'2"
    Nate Thurmond- 6'11'
    Bob Lanier- 6'11"
    Walt Bellamy- 6'11"
    Willis Reed- 6'10"
    Bill Russell- 6'10"

    In fact, there were more accomplished big men in the NBA in the 60s and 70s than today, despite the league consisting of 1/3 to 1/2 as many teams.

    Chamberlain did play against several smaller centers, but included in that group are outstanding players like Dave Cowens, Zelmo Beatty, and Wes Unseld. Chamberlain faced more high level competition in the post than what is available in the NBA today.
    Chamberlin is overrated. Russell surely should have a much higher standing...... and before I hear the bogus "Russell had better teammates" argument, remember that in Russell's last 2 years, Wilt had better teammates, Wilt had the home court, and Russell's team won both years. OOPS!

  23. #123
    The basketball discussion was so four months ago. Move it along about baseball, please.

    Musial shouldn't be top 12, he should at least be top 10.
    Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Alex Sparky
    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
    Gates Philip John Warrior JEDI

  24. #124
    Not a bad list at all considering the source...
    They got a lot right. My biggest quibble would be that if Clemens is the top pitcher, then they are clearly using league-quality arguments to put him over Johnson, Young, Alexander, etc.
    But if their LQ adjustments are that large, then they probably should have pushed Bonds to the top over Ruth. What I am saying is I think Bonds has a better argument as top player ever than Clemens does as top pitcher.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •