First woman MLB player - when?

[toomanyhatz]

OK, I confess my wife- who is not enough of a baseball fan to ever post here- has put me up to this. But it does interest me.

While certainly it's important to acknowledge that there are physical differences between men and women, and upper body strength is one of them, I don't buy there are no women whatsoever skilled enough to play professionally. I know a few have (mostly pitchers, it seems), but they've faced enormous prejudice.

So what do you think? Is it possible? Will it happen in our lifetimes? And do you think, as I do, that the first (if it happens) will likely be a pitcher?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I say it will never happen. The gap in physical attributes is just too large IMO. If it were to happen I think it will be a slap hitting second baseman that can really run, someone with Jessica Ennis athletic ability.

[Nimrod]

If it did ever happen it wouldn`t be front page news because the front page headlines would read:HELL FREEZES OVER.

[toomanyhatz]

That would have to be one...how to put this diplomatically...freakishly large woman to sustain a 2nd-base collision. But pitching only (in the AL, therefore not hitting) seems in the realm of possibility. That's what Ila Borders did (OK, not that successfully) in the independant leagues. She had zero at bats. On the positive side, she only made one error.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

How big is Jose Altuve? He's done ok at second base so far, no? How about a woman playing first base?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

This got me thinking. I wanted to compare Jose Altuve to the reigning women's Olympic heptathlon champion Jessica Ennis. Both are listed at 5'5". Altuve has various weights listed for him.

ESPN- 155 lbs
Yahoo!- 168 lbs
Astros website- 170 lbs
BBR- 170 lbs

Jessica Ennis is listed between 125-130 lbs. It would be interesting to test the both of them in terms of speed, strength, dexterity, general hand-eye coordination, agility, power, etc. I suspect Altuve is way stronger but Ennis is way faster and more explosive. I guess the question is can a woman with Jessica Ennis level athleticism who has actual baseball skills be good enough to play major league baseball?

Jose Altuve 2.jpg

Jessica-Ennis.jpg

[NJYankeeFan]

I read a story of girl who was entertaining offers to either play in the minors, an indy league or Korea at something like 17. Possibly has the talent. Can't find the article.

But I think it could happen. A pitcher. Maybe a knuckleballer. Maybe a lefty submarines loowy? ,)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[Honus Wagner Rules]

You are probably referring to Japanese knuckleball pitcher Eri Yoshida.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=yoshid001eri

She's pitched in the North American League. In 78 IP she has 17 K's and 57 BB's with a 7.62 ERA.

yoshida-chico-seals.jpg

628x471.jpg

sb20100304a2a.jpg

Eri Yoshida 1.jpg

[Jntg4]

Doubt it will ever happen, but maybe Miami would do it as a publicity stunt like what they did for Adam Greenberg.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Doubt it will ever happen, but maybe Miami would do it as a publicity stunt like what they did for Adam Greenberg.

And that is a problem. If any woman attempted to play pro ball, especially in the major leagues, it will quickly become a circus, side-show, carnival with all the press everywhere. Though, I would love to see Jessica Ennis in a baseball uniform.

[clayadams]

This topic has been discussed in depth in the coaching 101 forum. It always seems to get rather heated. There are a lot of factors at play here. Number one, in my opinion, is that "Girls play softball, boys play baseball." Girls, from the start, are pretty much pushed into softball. The culture of this country doesn't even give a girl much of a chance. Second, is the obvious, girls aren't physically as strong as guys. However, this is one where I sit back and think. Baseball players don't do much "training" when it comes to peak athleticism. You have a handful of guys that could be olympic sprint runners, but that's the smallest of the smallest minority. I'd be willing to bet I can squat and curl more than 90% of all baseball players, and run with at least half of them. I don't think I could outrun ANY pro football player. Baseball is a lot more about skill and finesse than power. Power does play a role, but not like any other sport. So, I do believe there are woman, that if they were dedicated enough, could do it. That can be argued till the cows come home as it's a matter of opinion.

My thought on it happening... it would have to be a pitcher. There was a girl in Atlanta on her high school team that was clocked at 85mph. With proper training I'd bet that could easily turn into upper 80's. Imagine if she could hit every corner, ala Greg Maddux. Then had a wicked changeup, slider and curve? EVEN BETTER... imagine if she could throw a knuckleball like R.A. You all should google Chelsea Baker. She's currently 15, plays travel baseball in Fl, and I believe made her JV team. She's a knuckleball pitcher that was trained by Joe Niekro when she was a little one. She's made the Team USA Women's National team... at 15. She's also been offered a full contract to move to Japan and play for the women's pro league. (I don't know anything about the women's pro league in Japan, but I believe the Japanese are far more "pro girl" than we are in the states.) So, IMO, there is nothing a knuckleball pitcher can do that a woman isn't capable of. That's how it can happen. Again, all opinion and speculation. As long as guys like "tradosaurus" don't enter the conversation, then I assume it can be fairly civil.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

girls aren't physically as strong as guys.

No disrespect, but isn't that a bit sexist to say something like that?

There are strong girls and guys both.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

No disrespect, but isn't that a bit sexist to say something like that?

There are strong girls and guys both.

In general men are stronger than women. The strongest men are far stronger than the strongest women. Is there any doubt about this?

[toomanyhatz]

In general men are stronger than women. The strongest men are far stronger than the strongest women. Is there any doubt about this?

There shouldn't be. It's physically measureable and even the most radical feminists I know acknowledge that it's so.

Were it used as a reason to keep a qualified woman from playing, that would be sexism. Acknowledging physical differences is rational.

[ipitch]

I'd be willing to bet I can squat and curl more than 90% of all baseball players, and run with at least half of them. I don't think I could outrun ANY pro football player.

If you're as fast as 50% of baseball players, then I'm darn sure that you could outrun many offensive lineman.

[clayadams]

If you're as fast as 50% of baseball players, then I'm darn sure that you could outrun many offensive lineman.

DOH... good point. You can tell I don't follow football.

Laser Beam, the other guys made my point for me. The strongest men will always be stronger than the strongest women, at least until we start messing with DNA. I simply think that the strongest and fastest men aren't usually in baseball. Therefore, one of the strongest and fastest women could possibly make it and be on par with the average men. Then, it would come down to skill. All of this is truly hypothetical as there simply aren't but a handful of girls that continue with baseball past 8/9yo... heck t-ball.

[NJYankeeFan]

You are probably referring to Japanese knuckleball pitcher Eri Yoshida.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=yoshid001eri

She's pitched in the North American League. In 78 IP she has 17 K's and 57 BB's with a 7.62 ERA.

yoshida-chico-seals.jpg

628x471.jpg

sb20100304a2a.jpg

Eri Yoshida 1.jpg

No. She was an American.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Double Post

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Double Post

[Honus Wagner Rules]

This topic has been discussed in depth in the coaching 101 forum. It always seems to get rather heated. There are a lot of factors at play here. Number one, in my opinion, is that "Girls play softball, boys play baseball." Girls, from the start, are pretty much pushed into softball. The culture of this country doesn't even give a girl much of a chance. Second, is the obvious, girls aren't physically as strong as guys. However, this is one where I sit back and think. Baseball players don't do much "training" when it comes to peak athleticism. You have a handful of guys that could be olympic sprint runners, but that's the smallest of the smallest minority. I'd be willing to bet I can squat and curl more than 90% of all baseball players, and run with at least half of them. I don't think I could outrun ANY pro football player. Baseball is a lot more about skill and finesse than power. Power does play a role, but not like any other sport. So, I do believe there are woman, that if they were dedicated enough, could do it. That can be argued till the cows come home as it's a matter of opinion.

Granted, baseball doesn't require as pure athleticism as football and basketball. But it does require a certain level of athleticism that does separate men from women. Bill James once said that baseball is more akin to golf than a decathlon. So lets look at golf. How much athleticism does playing golf require? On the surface it seems is mostly a game of skill. Yet the best LPGA players cannot compete with the best male golfers on the PGA Tour. Annika Sörenstam is one of the LPGA's greatest players ever. She's won more tournaments and more money on the LPGA Tour than another woman in LPGA Tour history. In 2003 she was invited to play in the Bank of America Colonial in Fort Worth, Texas, a PGA event. Sörenstam became the first woman to play in a PGA Tour event since 1945. Mind you Sörenstam was invited, she didn't qualify for this tournamant which miffed some male PGA pros. Sörenstam played and she got crushed. She missed the cut and finished tied for 96th out of 111 golfers. Sörenstam was at the height of her career (only 32 years old), one the LPGA's greatest players, and she simply couldn't compete against the top men. Part of the reason is that her drives were well short of the male golfers. And this is tied to physical strength which part of athleticism. And this was after Sörenstam had lifted weights for a several years to increase her drives.

Back in 2000, Sorenstam started a serious weight-training program. Her trainer, Kai Fusser, focused on upper body and core strength, and lengthened her drives. This prompted her competitors to hit the weight room just to stay in contention.

SOURCE

Why would a golfer light weights if golf is simply a game of skill? Why has Tiger Woods lifted some much weights that he looks like an NFL defensive back? It seems pro golfers believe lifting weights will make them better golfers.

tiger-woods.jpg


Getting back to baseball, ther athleticism required to play baseball is what separates men from women. Only a great female athlete could have the requiste base athleticism to play baseball with the men IMO. I still believe a female slap hitting second baseman than can really run would have the best chance. Some girl with Jesica Ennis athletic ability and off the charts baseball skills is still my chioce. A woman can't compete with the men in terms of strength. A woman is more likely to compete with men in terms of speed and explosiveness, hence the slap hitter with speed. Ennis is an explosive athlete. She's high jumped 6'5" which is a foot above he head. She's the British national record holder in the high jump. She's got world class sprinter speed and she is the British national record holder in the women's 100 meter hurdles as well. At only 5'5" Ennis would have a tiny strike zone like Jose Altuve does.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

double post

[clayadams]

Honus, one thing that differs from baseball to golf is that hitting a "home run" isn't expected of every player. You simply have to get the ball in play. There will be no girls the equal of Albert. I don't even know if a girl can hit well enough to get the ball in play such as a slap hitter. I do believe there are girls out there, alive, with the genetics capable. I just don't think we'll see them on the field... because "Girls play softball." As well, a girl would have to be unbelievable determined to put in so much more training than any man does.

Again, my #1 thought of a girl making it lies with a knuckleball pitcher. Hitting not required, and top tier athleticism of any kind not required. Wakefield did it throwing an avg in the 60's. There are TONS of girls that do that. I don't think we'll ever see it. I simply choose to believe there are girls out there in the world "capable".

[Capital City Goofball]

Women playing baseball professionally has absolutely nothing to do with the physical attributes they possess. I work for a women's professional softball team and as I watch these ladies play, I honestly believe, if you can teach them to hit a breaking ball and allow them to find their throwing range on a baseball field, then any one of these ballplayers could hold their own against men. Most of these ladies started out playing baseball but had to switch over to softball because there were no opportunities for growth. If women are to be given a chance to play, you need to change the biased that currently exists against them playing. If you honestly believe it comes down to physical strength, here is an example against that perception. Dorothy “Boots” Klupping (later Ortman), a member of the Illinois ASA Hall of Fame, who played one season in the All American Girls Professional Baseball League for the Racine Belles, once hit a 306' 4” homerun out of Soldier Field during the World's Softball Tournament in Chicago. To my knowledge, that is still the longest home run ever hit in softball. Klupping is not large, in fact she was very small and petite. Take into consideration the fact that the 12-inch softball they used was much heavier than the current ball, that is still a remarkable feat of “strength” from such a petite young woman... So basically, the reason ladies aren't playing professional baseball is because they aren't given an opportunity to develop their skills on a baseball field. If you create academies and programs to allow the superior female athletes to continue to develop their skills (instead of forcing them to switch over to softball), then we will see a realistic chance for a lady to play Major League ball...

[clayadams]

I honestly hope you're right Goofball.

[ipitch]

Women playing baseball professionally has absolutely nothing to do with the physical attributes they possess. I work for a women's professional softball team and as I watch these ladies play, I honestly believe, if you can teach them to hit a breaking ball and allow them to find their throwing range on a baseball field, then any one of these ballplayers could hold their own against men.

Any one of them? Being that you work for a women's professional softball team, I think you might be a little biased. A lot, actually. Have you ever seen the times for men/women in the 100m dash?

2012 Olympics 100m sprint - 1st place woman - 10.75.
2012 Olympics 100m sprint - 7th place man - 9.98.

Yes, track is not baseball, but if there were baseball throwing and hitting competitions between men and women, the men would dominate the women in that too.

How about golf, bowling, basketball, and weightlifting? Same thing. Do you see a pattern here?

If you honestly believe it comes down to physical strength, here is an example against that perception. Dorothy “Boots” Klupping (later Ortman), a member of the Illinois ASA Hall of Fame, who played one season in the All American Girls Professional Baseball League for the Racine Belles, once hit a 306' 4” homerun out of Soldier Field during the World's Softball Tournament in Chicago. To my knowledge, that is still the longest home run ever hit in softball. Klupping is not large, in fact she was very small and petite. Take into consideration the fact that the 12-inch softball they used was much heavier than the current ball, that is still a remarkable feat of “strength” from such a petite young woman.

If a petite woman hit a ball 306', I'm quite sure a male could have hit the same ball at least 350' back then. FWIW, men routinely hit 450'+ HRs these days, albeit with better bats/balls.