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Thread: First woman MLB player - when?

  1. #76
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    Jen Finch topped out in low 70s. She wouldn't throw a baseball much faster. I played major division softball, I threw as hard as Finch, and I was never higher than 3rd in the rotation. Why? Because I didn't throw fast enough. While Finch was impressive in the lower-caliber womens game, she would be pus in the top mens division. Two women chucking in mid 60s is a pitching duel. Two men chucking in low 70s is a slugfest. That's just the way it is. The top men threw 20-25 MPH faster than Finch. Besides, put Finch at 60'6" and her speed would drop considerably.

  2. #77
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    Macker,

    You seem to have extensive softball experience and knowledge. Did you ever see Eddie Feigner pitch in person? How good was he?
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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  3. #78
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    I saw Feigner a few times. Earliest was in the early 70s. I also saw him near the end a couple of times, and his schtick was old and boring. I finally told his agent to stop calling me, because our league had no interest in having him back. The last time we had him, they were grooming Craig Estrada, son of former MLB pitcher Chuck Estrada, to take over as pitcher. I also saw Feigner get lit up against a group who just prior to the game said they weren't going along with the show. They played on a field with a fence, and they hit bomb after bomb off him.

    He threw hard, and had other pitches besides the fastball. The thing is, though, he was no faster than other pitchers I faced. Even in the 70s, he had some years on him, so I can believe he was lights out in his younger years, but when I saw him, he was more entertaining than great.

    As far as female pitchers, I would rather have Cat Osterman over Finch. Osterman doesn't throw as hard, but I think she's a better pitcher, better breaking balls, change, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    I read a story of girl who was entertaining offers to either play in the minors, an indy league or Korea at something like 17. Possibly has the talent. Can't find the article.

    But I think it could happen. A pitcher. Maybe a knuckleballer. Maybe a lefty submarines loowy? ,)

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    Indy teams will do gimmicky things for publicity. Since they aren't part of a MLB franchise they can't sell "the stars of tomorrow."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ipitch View Post
    The top female sprinter not only didn't beat the 7th best male, she wasn't even in the same zip code as him. She probably couldn't even beat the 1,000th fastest male sprinter. That's is how much better males are.



    They do, but they don't do it nearly as well. They hit with less power, their throws are slower, they run slower, and they don't jump as high. That's the point. Plus, those women are playing against other women, right? Just because a woman hits a 250' line-drive, it doesn't mean she could do the same vs. a male pitcher.

    Your "any one of these (women) ballplayers could hold their own against men" statement is ridiculous. They can't do it in other sports, so what makes you think they could do it in baseball? Yes, women don't play much baseball, but they do play a lot of basketball, track, hockey, etc. and the best women aren't even close to being good enough to compete with the men.
    I was an all-state basketball player in high school. I played playground games after college (played baseball). When I was about 23 I played a one on one game with a WBL (preceeded the WBA) player. I was a former high school player. She was a current professional. I killed her every game we played. The only thing she could do better than me was shoot when I left her open since she practiced shooting every day. When I got in her face she couldn't do a thing. I was too strong and too quick.

  6. #81
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    Playing second has the shortest throw

    This statement alone tells me the poster doesn't know the game of baseball. A MLB second baseman better have a gun for an arm for turning two. It's not Little League.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Laser Beam View Post
    ^ Uh huh. So if a woman tried out for a MLB team right now, do you think anyone would let her?
    There would be nothing stopping a woman from attending a MLB free agent tryout camp.

  8. #83
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    Here's a good example of the difference between male and female athletes. Mia Hamm was arguably the best female soccer player in the word in her prime. When asked if she planned to tryout for a MLS team she laughed. Then she defined the difference between male and female athletes. She said her world champion American Gold Cup team struggled against the top U19 American boys teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clayadams View Post
    I'm not trying to be a grammar nazi, but your triple negative sentence has kinda thrown me off. Are you saying it's sexist to say women aren't as strong as men?

    Let me start off by saying (if it's not already clear) that I'm all for a female reaching the MLB. I think it's theoretically possible. I have a preteen daughter that plays baseball and loves it with every bone in her body. She wants nothing to do with softball. With that said, it's simple fact to say that women aren't as strong as men. Sure, there are SOME women that are stronger than SOME men. However, in general, men have that whole testosterone advantage. That's why a male gorilla can rip a man, literally, limb from limb. Everything he eats turns into pure testosterone. Men produce, on average 10x more testosterone than women. Therefore, we'll be stronger. Stating fact isn't sexist. The reason I think a woman CAN make it to the pros someday, is because baseball doesn't require the biggest, fastest, and strongest. That all helps, but it's not a requirement to be good at the game.
    The player in the minors, who never make the majors are among the most fastest, strongest and most talented players in the game. There isn't even a woman capable of playing major conference college baseball. And only 10% of college baseball players are even drafted to be given a 1% shot at MLB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Why does she believe this? I can see if a female player was just used as a side show then the male ballplayers would probably not give the female much respect. As I mentioned before when Annika Sörenstam played a PGA Tour event she was invited, she didn't qualify. This annoyed some male pros. If she had gone to qualifying school and earned her PGA Tour card I doubt any male pros would objected much. If she qualifies then she's qualifies. I think we laid out the difficulties of a woman ballplayer playing in the majors and being a productive player. Now if Jessica Ennis could hit and field she's could help my SF Giants in the outfield. In the end I think the creation of a WMLB would be a more interesting development. I'd go see a women's major league game if they played some good ball. I'm not sure how many other people would though. The WNBA has been around since 1996 yet six teams have folded.
    If the WNBA wasn't financially subsidized by the NBA it would be long gone.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg643 View Post
    Playing second has the shortest throw

    This statement alone tells me the poster doesn't know the game of baseball. A MLB second baseman better have a gun for an arm for turning two. It's not Little League.
    Your statement in no way contradicts what I said. Do second baseman not have the shortest throw to first base? On most plays the second baseman has a throw 60-80 ft.
    Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 01-25-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Your statement in no way contradicts what I said. Do second baseman not have the shortest throw to first base? On most plays the second baseman has a throw 60-80 ft.
    I stand on "you don't know the game." Playing second base has nothing to do with the shortest throw. They throw just as hard as the shortstop and third baseman.

    There's a filter in the game where the talent funnel gets smaller and smaller. Outside of pitchers and catchers, colleges recruit mostly the stud shortstops and center fielders. They get disbursed around the field in college. The same mostly occurs in pro ball in relation to college players. A MLB second basemen was almost surely a stud shortstop in high school. There's a very good chance he was a college shortstop. It's not like LL where someone plays second because it's the shortest throw.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg643 View Post
    I stand on "you don't know the game." Playing second base has nothing to do with the shortest throw. They throw just as hard as the shortstop and third baseman.
    And of course you "know that game"? Right. Is the throw from second shorter than the throw from shortstop and third base? Yes or no? Go bother someone's threads with your useless posts.

    There's a filter in the game where the talent funnel gets smaller and smaller. Outside of pitchers and catchers, colleges recruit mostly the stud shortstops and center fielders. They get disbursed around the field in college. The same mostly occurs in pro ball in relation to college players. A MLB second basemen was almost surely a stud shortstop in high school. There's a very good chance he was a college shortstop. It's not like LL where someone plays second because it's the shortest throw.
    "Stud high shortstops" and "college shortstops" are a dime a dozen. It's meaningless. Buster Posey played shortstop in college. Could he play shortstop in the majors? I thought you "know the game"? Apparently, not.
    Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 01-28-2013 at 08:01 PM.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    And of course you "know that game"? Right. Is the throw from second shorter than the throw from shortstop and third base? Yes or no? Go bother someone's threads with your useless posts.


    "Stud high shortstops" and "college shortstops" are a dime a dozen. It's meaningless. Buster Posey played shortstop in college. Could he play shortstop in the majors? I thought you "know the game"? Apparently, not.
    This is a senseless response. Actually trying to validate a woman being capable of playing MLB baseball is senseless and a joke. The best female athletes in the world are on par with the best male high school athletes.

    Yes, I know the game. I played major conference D1 baseball. I coached college/pro showcase prospect ball. My son plays major conference D1 baseball. For what it's worth my daughter played major conference D1 softball.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg643 View Post
    This is a senseless response.
    It's only senseless because you can't understand it. And you didn't answer my question about Buster Posey.

    Actually trying to validate a woman being capable of playing MLB baseball is senseless and a joke.
    Why is it senseless and a joke? This is a baseball forum we we spitball all sorts of baseball ideas. Someone asked a question about a woman playing major league ball. If you think it's senseless and a joke then why did you bother to post in this thread? Why waste out time other than to tell us how smart you think you are? Most of us posting in this thread have said it's quite unlikely that a woman could play in the majors. I don't think anyone has stated they thought it was likely or probable. If it were remotely possible some said it would be a pitcher. Others said a middle infielder. We are just throwing out ideas here.

    Yes, I know the game. I played major conference D1 baseball. I coached college/pro showcase prospect ball. My son plays major conference D1 baseball. For what it's worth my daughter played major conference D1 softball.
    Well good for you, assuming your are telling truth. Over the Internet there is no way of knowing. So stop being so snooty about how you "know the game" and and anyone that disagrees with you "doesn't know the game".
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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  16. #91
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    Second base has the shortest throws among the infielders. That's indisputable. (Not counting first basemen, who don't make many throws.) I don't think anyone is implying that since secondbasemen have the shortest throws, then women should be able to play it in MLB. It's more of a statement that due to the secondbasemen having the shortest throws, that excludes women from playing shortstop or third base in the major leagues. In other words, second base is the only non-pitching position that a women could hope to complete in MLB.

    We all know there is more to it, though. While there may be women who could be as good with their hands and speed and make all of the routine plays as well as the best men, not all plays are routine. How many women can make a stop behind second base and fire to first for the out? How many can avoid a sliding runner and still get a strong peg to first base for a double play? How many women can take a cutoff from an outfielder and peg out a runner at third or home? Even if there is a strong-armed woman who could do those things in the field, how many would also be able to hit for power?

  17. #92
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    "Stud high shortstops" and "college shortstops" are a dime a dozen. It's meaningless. Buster Posey played shortstop in college. Could he play shortstop in the majors? I thought you "know the game"? Apparently, not.

    Once again, you don't get it. Other than the specialty positions of pitcher and catcher who do you think high schools and pro teams recruit/draft more than any other players? What is your point about Buster Posey? What does it have to do with my statement outside pitchers and catchers most position players that go to the next level are stud shortstops and center fielders? He was a catcher. I have that covered. He was a shortstop. I have that covered. Because he was a stud shortstop is why he had the athletic skills to be converted to a catcher. I would be surprised if you know the entire story of why he was converted to catcher. Maybe you can find it if you search hard enough online.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macker View Post
    Second base has the shortest throws among the infielders. That's indisputable. (Not counting first basemen, who don't make many throws.) I don't think anyone is implying that since secondbasemen have the shortest throws, then women should be able to play it in MLB. It's more of a statement that due to the secondbasemen having the shortest throws, that excludes women from playing shortstop or third base in the major leagues. In other words, second base is the only non-pitching position that a women could hope to complete in MLB.

    We all know there is more to it, though. While there may be women who could be as good with their hands and speed and make all of the routine plays as well as the best men, not all plays are routine. How many women can make a stop behind second base and fire to first for the out? How many can avoid a sliding runner and still get a strong peg to first base for a double play? How many women can take a cutoff from an outfielder and peg out a runner at third or home? Even if there is a strong-armed woman who could do those things in the field, how many would also be able to hit for power?
    The entire "a woman can play MLB ball" conversation is quite ludicrous in itself. There has yet to be a top female athlete in any sport who could compete with the best men. There are physical differences that hold women back. They will never be as fast and strong as the men who compete for MLB roster spots.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg643 View Post
    "Stud high shortstops" and "college shortstops" are a dime a dozen. It's meaningless. Buster Posey played shortstop in college. Could he play shortstop in the majors? I thought you "know the game"? Apparently, not.

    Once again, you don't get it. Other than the specialty positions of pitcher and catcher who do you think high schools and pro teams recruit/draft more than any other players? What is your point about Buster Posey? What does it have to do with my statement outside pitchers and catchers most position players that go to the next level are stud shortstops and center fielders? He was a catcher. I have that covered. He was a shortstop. I have that covered. Because he was a stud shortstop is why he had the athletic skills to be converted to a catcher. I would be surprised if you know the entire story of why he was converted to catcher. Maybe you can find it if you search hard enough online.
    What is your point in this thread? Just to whine about others not agreeing with you? Seriously, take a chill pill. This is a Baseball Fever. We are all here just to have some fun from real life. But it seems you are taking this thread way too seriously. The topic at hand is women playing in the majors. Pretty much everyone in this thread had stated it's most likely impossible for a female to play in the majors because women lack the athletic ability or size to play in the majors. Then we started talking about if it were possible what kind of woman could do it? That's where the whole Jessica Ennis vs female pitcher discussion came from. I even mentioned Jose Altuve and Freddie Patek, two major leaguers who are the same height as Jessica Ennis. Then you just come in at the end of this thread screaming "Women can't play in the majors! It's stupid just to talk about it!" Who made you the Forum Nazi™ telling people what to discuss on this thread? If you don't like the tpoic, then don't post in this thread! We were all having a fine discussion before you came along with your sour attitude.

    As for Buster Posey I was following Posey while Posey was still at Florida State. I was stunned Posey was still available with the #5 pick and most happy the Giants drafted him (been a Giants fan since 1976). I know his story from college. I'm thrilled that he has led my beloved S.F. Giants to two World Series titles after I had been waiting for 34 years for a World Series title.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg643 View Post
    There has yet to be a top female athlete in any sport who could compete with the best men.
    Except for bowling, perhaps. Kelly Kulick won a PBA title.

    No bowling jokes, please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    What is your point in this thread? Just to whine about others not agreeing with you? Seriously, take a chill pill. This is a Baseball Fever. We are all here just to have some fun from real life. But it seems you are taking this thread way too seriously. The topic at hand is women playing in the majors. Pretty much everyone in this thread had stated it's most likely impossible for a female to play in the majors because women lack the athletic ability or size to play in the majors. Then we started talking about if it were possible what kind of woman could do it? That's where the whole Jessica Ennis vs female pitcher discussion came from. I even mentioned Jose Altuve and Freddie Patek, two major leaguers who are the same height as Jessica Ennis. Then you just come in at the end of this thread screaming "Women can't play in the majors! It's stupid just to talk about it!" Who made you the Forum Nazi™ telling people what to discuss on this thread? If you don't like the tpoic, then don't post in this thread! We were all having a fine discussion before you came along with your sour attitude.

    As for Buster Posey I was following Posey while Posey was still at Florida State. I was stunned Posey was still available with the #5 pick and most happy the Giants drafted him (been a Giants fan since 1976). I know his story from college. I'm thrilled that he has led my beloved S.F. Giants to two World Series titles after I had been waiting for 34 years for a World Series title.
    It's not possible for a women to play MLB baseball. But let's discuss how it would be possible. "If I had balls I could be king," said the queen.

    I'll bet you don't know the entire story behind Posey's move from short to catcher. It's not a big deal that you don't. It's just that since you're shooting off your mouth (via text) I was curious to see if you really know.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg643 View Post
    It's not possible for a women to play MLB baseball. But let's discuss how it would be possible. "If I had balls I could be king," said the queen.
    If you don't like this thread then why are posting in it?

    I'll bet you don't know the entire story behind Posey's move from short to catcher.
    And I bet you think you do, huh? Who cares? You seem just itching to prove how smart you think you are.

    It's not a big deal that you don't. It's just that since you're shooting off your mouth (via text) I was curious to see if you really know.
    That's rich coming for you guy who jumps in at the end of a thread and whines and shoots off his mouth. Go bother some other folks with your childish whining.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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  23. #98
    TG, serious question, Why aren't women capable of doing what Wakefield did? 65mph knuckleball specialist? It's been said that women might even have a higher "precision" skill than men. So what's to stop a woman from doing exactly what Wakefield, and even Dickey (throwing a KB in the 70's) can do? You keep talking about speed and strength, and on that I agree. A knuckleball pitcher requires neither, only precision.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    If you don't like this thread then why are posting in it?


    And I bet you think you do, huh? Who cares? You seem just itching to prove how smart you think you are.


    That's rich coming for you guy who jumps in at the end of a thread and whines and shoots off his mouth. Go bother some other folks with your childish whining.
    I can see it really ticks you off you weren't born with one. even though you were spouting off I figured you didn't know the entire Posey story.
    Last edited by tg643; 01-30-2013 at 03:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clayadams View Post
    TG, serious question, Why aren't women capable of doing what Wakefield did? 65mph knuckleball specialist? It's been said that women might even have a higher "precision" skill than men. So what's to stop a woman from doing exactly what Wakefield, and even Dickey (throwing a KB in the 70's) can do? You keep talking about speed and strength, and on that I agree. A knuckleball pitcher requires neither, only precision.
    How many knuckle ball prospects do you see coming up through the minors? None. If it was a third pitch for someone that's not a knuckle ball prospect. With the miniscule number of knuckle ball successes in the majors over the years it's not worth the time of the MLB franchises to develop them. Another thing could be just the physical stamina required of the season. Wakefield worked very hard to keep his legs strong. A women probably couldn't get their legs as strong as any minor leaguer.
    Last edited by tg643; 01-30-2013 at 03:18 PM.

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