First woman MLB player - when?

[tg643]

I agree for the most part. At the same time though, I don't think Ennis trains for upper body strength, so it's not a full apples to apples. I don't know that there will be a true apples to apples until girls start playing baseball with the boys and taking it even more seriously than they do.

Using my own kid as an example, I just don't see girls taking this sport as seriously as boys do. (Forgive me if I've already said this, I'm not going back to read everything again.) At an early age, I think girls are simply treated differently. While I know pre-teen athleticism doesn't mean much, I've just been floored at the difference that's recently come to my knowledge. Until this season, my daughter had only played baseball with the boys. She bats, runs, throws, spits, grunts (ok, maybe that's an exaggeration)...everything, like the boys do. Then, this season, she finally agreed to play some softball with her friend. Now, my girl is 9. The rec league softball team is 12u. I was floored. It was almost like stepping back to t-ball. Ok, so there are some girls that have never played before. But, there are girls out there that have been doing this since they were 5. All I can say is, girls just seem to be coddled to me. I know there are tough travel teams, but as a whole, girls simply aren't taught like the boys are. My daughter is having fun playing with her friends, but it's just fun. I'm even happy to say that the 14u team coach has also asked me if she can be a fill in player for his team. I give some of her talent to God given genes, but the rest is simply because she's been playing at the boys' level from the start. I hope she'll be able to keep playing as long as she wants to.

My point is much along the lines of what chasfh said. Girls will have to play with the boys from the start and be better than them. It's so unlikely though because, from the start, girls just aren't taught to be as competitive as the boys are. If it's going to happen, I think this will only happen as a pitcher. Whether conventional or knuckleball, you don't have to have blazing speed to be a damn good pitcher. You've just gotta have command of several pitches. I do believe that's possible for a girl to do. Until things change at the lowest levels though, I don't think we'll see too many girls giving it a shot.

I definitely enjoy the discussion though.

My daughter played college softball. They train hard all fall on upper body strength. My daughter had swimming every morning and weightlifting and agility training six days a week. Women just don't have the same physical potential as men.

She started playing 12U travel softball at age eleven. It was as competitive as any level of boys baseball I've seen. She played 16U at fourteen and 18U at fifteen. At the level she played (ASA Gold) I never saw a girl shrug off losing.

[tg643]

Not many prospects have command of several pitches. You need a blazing fastball. Guys who have been successful in the majors despite lacking a blazing fastball, such as Bob Tewksbury, had a blazing fastball at the time anyone took them seriously as a prospect.

Pro prospects have to throw at least 90 going in. I've seen people post about Greg Maddux's lack of velocity. He threw 90+ for a good portion of his career. As he got older he was a smarter, experienced pitcher who could get hitters out throwing in the 80s.

[clayadams]

My daughter played college softball. They train hard all fall on upper body strength. My daughter had swimming every morning and weightlifting and agility training six days a week. Women just don't have the same physical potential as men.

She started playing 12U travel softball at age eleven. It was as competitive as any level of boys baseball I've seen. She played 16U at fourteen and 18U at fifteen. At the level she played (ASA Gold) I never saw a girl shrug off losing.

And I did point out that I've seen some girls at the travel level that are pretty tough. My daughter practiced last year, as an 8yo, with one of the top A level 10u teams in the state. My point was that it is rare, while the boys are just FAR more aggressive from the start, even in rec league. All girls have to play like that from the start.

I think we agree, for the most part TG. It is HIGHLY unlikely that a girl could ever make it. However, the point we disagree on is that I believe there are female "specimens" out there that could do it. Rare as they are, I think there are diamonds yet to be found. Since girls are taught differently from the start, even the diamond won't shine though.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/5/1...-in-the-majors

[clayadams]

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/5/1...-in-the-majors

Great thoughts there. Most of it said what I've said here too. I don't really think the last opinion about women in soccer vs men should be a consideration though. Baseball is one of the few sports where pure athleticism isn't the end all be all of considerations. Soccer, football, basketball, I agree... never happen.

I'll say it a thousand times, it's VERY possible that a knuckleballer could do it. My friend, now playing AA ball for the Oriole's org (and doing well) proves that there are teams looking to develop knucklers. All it took was one phone call to the Oriole's GM from a friend of said GM, and he was being looked at the next day. The Orioles org now have 3 knucklers in AA. He's a big powerful guy, but his fastest fastball is low to mid 80's. His knuckle is friggin' awesome though.

[Zito75]

I just don't see it happening ever, simply because scouts are spending their time watching "the other" games. As I recall, that Japanese girl got lit up in the Golden League a couple years ago. Granted, that was more of a publicity stunt - still - we're talking apples and oranges here.

[wes_kahn]

There was a 13-year old knuckleballer who learned from Joe Niekro before he passed away. She pitched two perfect games in Little League, one of which came in all-star competition. She had a 65-mph fastball at 13, and she hit over .600 in her league. I cannot remember anything else about her, except that her uniform was sent to the Baseball HOF. Not that she has a chance of making it to pro ball, and even if she is playing high school ball, but she was the best pitcher in all of Little League at 13.

There was a female pitcher in Chattanooga in the early 1930's. She had learned to pitch from Dazzy Vance. Joe Engel signed her to pitch for the Chattanooga Lookouts in an exhibition game against the Yankees. She struck out Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig. Of course, the Yankees were too scared. Yosemite Sam was there warning that if any of the Yankees came out of the dugout, he would blow their heads off.

[ipitch]

I just don't see it happening ever, simply because scouts are spending their time watching "the other" games.

What about the open tryouts? There must be some players that have made it to MLB even though they were never scouted.

[clayadams]

There was a 13-year old knuckleballer who learned from Joe Niekro before he passed away. She pitched two perfect games in Little League, one of which came in all-star competition. She had a 65-mph fastball at 13, and she hit over .600 in her league. I cannot remember anything else about her, except that her uniform was sent to the Baseball HOF. Not that she has a chance of making it to pro ball, and even if she is playing high school ball, but she was the best pitcher in all of Little League at 13.

Chelsea Baker. Still pitching. She was featured in "The Next Knuckler" that the MLB did.

[tg643]

At thirteen many of the girls are bigger than the boys. So it's always possible a thirteen year old girl could excel in LL. but over the next three years the boys hit puberty and shoot past the girls in physical capability.

For as much as a girl might physically develop in the future, boys will develop even more. And for the poster who compared 10U travel to college ball, don't. There's nothing about playing travel ball that compares with college ball, including 18U Gold. College ball is a thirty hour per week job on top of attending classes and homework.

[clayadams]

At thirteen many of the girls are bigger than the boys. So it's always possible a thirteen year old girl could excel in LL. but over the next three years the boys hit puberty and shoot past the girls in physical capability.

For as much as a girl might physically develop in the future, boys will develop even more. And for the poster who compared 10U travel to college ball, don't. There's nothing about playing travel ball that compares with college ball, including 18U Gold. College ball is a thirty hour per week job on top of attending classes and homework.

FYI, she's 16 now. Still playing high level travel ball in Florida. I haven't followed her twitter in a while, but pretty sure she made the high school roster. Not saying she'll make college ball, but she's the real deal with a knuckleball. A 75mph fastball and 65mph knuckle is all you need if you can make the ball dance at all times. I still don't understand what about that is impossible for a girl.

I don't know if you were talking about me when talking about pre-teen travel ball, but I specifically said that has nothing to do with post pubescent ball. I was simply talking about how differently boys and girls are treated from the start after my experiences with softball vs baseball.

[Zito75]

What about the open tryouts? There must be some players that have made it to MLB even though they were never scouted.

There will always be guys that are better - sorry to sound sexist or whatever. I'll bow out now, LOL.

[Death to Crawling Things]

There was a 13-year old knuckleballer who learned from Joe Niekro before he passed away. She pitched two perfect games in Little League, one of which came in all-star competition. She had a 65-mph fastball at 13, and she hit over .600 in her league. I cannot remember anything else about her, except that her uniform was sent to the Baseball HOF. Not that she has a chance of making it to pro ball, and even if she is playing high school ball, but she was the best pitcher in all of Little League at 13.

There was a female pitcher in Chattanooga in the early 1930's. She had learned to pitch from Dazzy Vance. Joe Engel signed her to pitch for the Chattanooga Lookouts in an exhibition game against the Yankees. She struck out Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig. Of course, the Yankees were too scared. Yosemite Sam was there warning that if any of the Yankees came out of the dugout, he would blow their heads off.

1930s? That might be a Jackie Mitchell.