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Thread: First woman MLB player - when?

  1. #251
    Kelsie coached my kid, and also made the Team USA WNT roster which brought home the gold in the Pan Am games. She's very good. I know nothing about the other girl. I don't expect her to make the majors by any means, but she's not a hack. She's a damn good ball player.

  2. #252
    It was really sad to see that the USA is the only 2-1 team playing in the Consolation Round. Australia beat them out on Run Differential. We beat Taiwan 2-1, which also had a 2-1 record.

    SEPTEMBER 2-10, 2016 WOMEN’S WORLD CUP
    AT GIJANG-HYUNDAI DREAM BALLPARK (CAPACITY 28,000) IN GIJANG, SOUTH KOREA

    September 2
    Netherlands 9 India 2 before 150 fans at Dream Park 2
    USA 9 Hong Kong 1 before 50 fans at Dream Park 3
    South Korea 10 Pakistan 0 in 6 innings before 800 fans at
    Dream Main Park
    Venezuela 12 Cuba 0 in 5 innings before 100 fans at Dream
    Park 2
    Taiwan 12 Australia 4 before 250 fans at Dream Park 3
    Madonna Japan 8 Canada 2 before 800 fans at Dream Main Park

    September 3
    Venezuela 18 Pakistan 1 before 65 fans at Dream Park 2
    USA 2 Taiwan 1 before 700 fans at Dream Park 3
    Madonna Japan 12 Netherlands 0 before 700 fans at Dream Main
    Park
    Canada 18 India 4 before 50 fans at Dream Park 2
    Australia 13 Hong Kong 0 before 150 fans at Dream Park 3
    South Korea 4 Cuba 3 before 850 fans at Dream Main Park

    September 4
    Cuba 15 Pakistan 0 before 200 fans at Dream Park 2
    Australia 10 USA 2 before 800 fans at Dream Park 3
    Madonna Japan 18 India 0 before 550 fans at Dream Main
    Park
    Canada 7 Netherlands 1 before 50 fans at Dream Park 2
    Taiwan 13 Hong Kong 3 before 200 fans at Dream Park 3
    Venezuela 12 South Korea 1 before 1000 fans at Dream Main
    Park

    September 7
    Taiwan 11 South Korea 1 before 950 fans at Dream Main Park
    Venezuela vs. Japan at Dream Main Park
    Australia vs. Canada at Dream Main Park
    Cuba vs. Netherlands at Dream Park 2
    Hong Kong vs. India at Dream Park 3
    USA vs. Pakistan at Dream Park 2

    September 8
    South Korea vs. Australia at Dream Main Park
    Venezuela vs. Canada at Dream Main Park
    Japan vs. Taiwan at Dream Main Park
    Cuba vs. India at Dream Park 2
    Pakistan vs. Hong Kong at Dream Park 3
    Netherlands vs. USA at Dream Park 2

    September 9
    Canada vs. South Korea at Dream Main Park
    Taiwan vs. Venezuela at Dream Main Park
    Japan vs. Australia at Dream Main Park
    India vs. Pakistan at Dream Park 2
    USA vs. Cuba at Dream Park 3
    Netherlands vs. Hong Kong at Dream Park 2

    September 10
    Taiwan vs. Canada at Dream Main Park
    Japan vs. South Korea at Dream Main Park
    Venezuela vs. Australia at Dream Main Park
    USA vs. India at Dream Park 2
    Cuba vs. Hong Kong at Dream Park 3
    Netherlands vs. Pakistan at Dream Park 2

    Bronze Medal Game

    Gold Medal Game

    Final Standings
    Japan 3-0 /
    Venezuela 3-0 /
    Australia 2-1 /
    Canada 2-1 /
    South Korea 2-1 / 0-1 //
    Taiwan 2-1 / 1-0 //

    USA 2-1 /
    Cuba 1-2 /
    Netherlands 1-2 /
    Hong Kong 0-3 /
    India 0-3 /
    Pakistan 0-3 /

  3. #253
    I think that the biggest surprise at the Women's World Cup in
    Gijang City, South Korea is the Venezuelan team, winning the
    Bronze Medal with a 6-2 record. I remember sitting amidst their
    Women's Team at the July 2015 Pan Am Games in Ajax, Canada,
    and, with a dismal 2-3 record, they were a dis-spirited group.
    Things have sure changed for the better for their team.

  4. #254
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    Anyone else see the promo for this yesterday during football on Fox?

    "Pitch", in association with MLB, about the first woman in the majors...touted as a "story on the verge of happening."

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5500158/?ref_=nv_sr_3

  5. #255
    In theory a woman could become a MLB pitcher. there are women who would be capable to throw 85-86 with the right Training and there are MLB pitcher who succeeded with that.

    the Problem is that those mid 80s for a woman is in the upper 0.1%, basically like a 100 mph with men. to succeed with mid 80s like buehrle in his 30s you Need to be basically top notch in everything else. top command, great pitcher D, good running came Controlling, of course secondary pitches.

    So what is the Chance that a starter throws 100 (or 85 with a woman) AND is also fantastic at the other stuff? That guy (100 mph plus great at everything else) has never been there and if he was he would be clearly the best pitcher ever (and likely most valuable Player ever even exceeding Ruth if he would do that for 15 years).

    If there was a woman throwing 86 just by Chance it is more likely that her other skills (BB, defense, Holding runners) is more like Randy Johnson in his prime.

    And a pitcher throwing 86 with Randy Johnsons "secondary skills" is not going to survive. that means for a woman to do as well as buehrle she literally Needs to be the most talented Baseball Player ever. of course buehrle is not the worst Player (109 ERA+ from 11-15 when his Velo was that low) but he also depressed an average FIP by historic run game Controlling and pitcher D. there is a Little leeway down from buehrle but only a tiny hair.
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    In theory a woman could become a MLB pitcher. there are women who would be capable to throw 85-86 with the right Training and there are MLB pitcher who succeeded with that.

    the Problem is that those mid 80s for a woman is in the upper 0.1%, basically like a 100 mph with men. to succeed with mid 80s like buehrle in his 30s you Need to be basically top notch in everything else. top command, great pitcher D, good running came Controlling, of course secondary pitches.

    So what is the Chance that a starter throws 100 (or 85 with a woman) AND is also fantastic at the other stuff? That guy (100 mph plus great at everything else) has never been there and if he was he would be clearly the best pitcher ever (and likely most valuable Player ever even exceeding Ruth if he would do that for 15 years).

    If there was a woman throwing 86 just by Chance it is more likely that her other skills (BB, defense, Holding runners) is more like Randy Johnson in his prime.

    And a pitcher throwing 86 with Randy Johnsons "secondary skills" is not going to survive. that means for a woman to do as well as buehrle she literally Needs to be the most talented Baseball Player ever. of course buehrle is not the worst Player (109 ERA+ from 11-15 when his Velo was that low) but he also depressed an average FIP by historic run game Controlling and pitcher D. there is a Little leeway down from buehrle but only a tiny hair.
    Good post. This makes sense. Greg Maddux could throw 93, but had to sacrifice control. The Maddux we watched often threw 87-88 mph fastballs, which allowed him be be that perfect pitcher.

    Pete Alexander was also known to throw a medium fastball as well. But he, like Maddux, had nearly perfect control, and wide variety of pitches(Honus Wagner said he wrote them down and there were 9), and great pitching chops to boot.

  7. #257
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    If women can't compete with men in pro golf I can't see how a woman can hold her own in the majors.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    If women can't compete with men in pro golf I can't see how a woman can hold her own in the majors.
    Well, Annika Sorenstam did better than 11 men when she played in a 2003 PGA tournament.

  9. #259
    There are many milestones on the inevitable path to seeing the first female
    Major League Baseball player, and the latest happened this past week at the World Baseball Classic Qualifier in Brooklyn, New York:

    FIRST FEMALES IN THE NEGRO LEAGUES - three women players in the 1950's

    FIRST FEMALE MINOR LEAGUE PITCHER - Ila Borders from 1997-2000, I saw her pitch

    FIRST MINOR LEAGUE TEAM TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE FEMALES ON THE ROSTER - Kelsie Whitmore, Stacy Piagno - Sonoma Stompers

    FIRST FEMALE TO PITCH BATTING PRACTICE FOR AN MLB TEAM - JUSTINE SIEGAL

    FIRST FEMALE TO BE A MINOR LEAGUE COACH - JUSTINE SIEGAL

    FIRST FEMALE IN UNIFORM (# 15) AS A COACH ON A WORLD BASEBALL CLASSIC TEAM (ISRAEL) - JUSTINE SIEGAL

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipitch View Post
    Well, Annika Sorenstam did better than 11 men when she played in a 2003 PGA tournament.
    Yes, and got beat by about 100 other men and she didn't make the cut. And Annika Sorenstam, considerd by many the greatest female golfer ever, was at her absolute peak at that time. And she got crushed in that PGA event.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  11. #261
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    Kent Hrbek is easily the most talented player in history. Unfortunately, his daughter Heidi took up figure-skating.

    Wait. She's in her early 20s, if I remember correctly. Any daughter of Hrbek is good enough to make MLB with only 2 years of experience in baseball.

    So I'm saying there's a chance.

  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Yes, and got beat by about 100 other men and she didn't make the cut. And Annika Sorenstam, considerd by many the greatest female golfer ever, was at her absolute peak at that time. And she got crushed in that PGA event.
    You're telling me nothing that I didn't already know.

    Beating 11 men means she was competing. And the pressure on her was huge. I believe she could have made some cuts had she played every tournament. Someone is always going to finish in last place (even Tiger Woods has), so, what's the problem? Had a man played instead of her, someone would have finished in the same position that she did, and you wouldn't have had a problem with him.

    Everyone knows that the average man is greater than the average woman in baseball/golf, etc. It's not like a woman in MLB needs to be great a MLB player, she really just needs to be about as good as the worst MLB player, and that could certainly happen some day.
    Last edited by ipitch; 09-29-2016 at 02:14 PM.

  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipitch View Post
    You're telling me nothing that I didn't already know.
    Ok.

    Beating 11 men means she was competing. And the pressure on her was huge. I believe she could have made some cuts had she played every tournament.
    The men she beat were not top tier PGA players.

    Someone is always going to finish in last place (even Tiger Woods has), so, what's the problem? Had a man played instead of her, someone would have finished in the same position that she did, and you wouldn't have had a problem with him.
    Who said I have a problem with Annika Sorenstam? I'm simply stating my opinion that the best LPGA players are not good enough to play on the PGA Tour. Also, Annika Sorenstam did not qualify for that PGA Event. She was given a sponsor's exemption. When Michelle Wie was a teenager I thought she could be the first female to hang in the PGA. She missed the cut of a PGA event my one stroke one time. I thought for sure with her height and power she could at least make the cut of some PGA event. But she never did. She never tried to go qualifying school either as far as I know.

    Everyone knows that the average man is greater than the average woman in baseball/golf, etc. It's not like a woman in MLB needs to be great a MLB player, she really just needs to be about as good as the worst MLB player, and that could certainly happen some day.
    I doubt that will ever happen.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipitch View Post
    You're telling me nothing that I didn't already know.

    Beating 11 men means she was competing. And the pressure on her was huge. I believe she could have made some cuts had she played every tournament. Someone is always going to finish in last place (even Tiger Woods has), so, what's the problem? Had a man played instead of her, someone would have finished in the same position that she did, and you wouldn't have had a problem with him.

    Everyone knows that the average man is greater than the average woman in baseball/golf, etc. It's not like a woman in MLB needs to be great a MLB player, she really just needs to be about as good as the worst MLB player, and that could certainly happen some day.
    Yeah, this is kind of my take. Jackie Robinson had to have the proper temperament AND top-line ability AND dispel the notion that blacks were physically inferior to whites. All the first woman would have to do is be competitive. As mentioned earlier in this thread, there ARE quantifiable physical differences between men and women. It would take a truly freakishly talented female to be a power hitter in the MLB, but with pitching you can get by on an unusual delivery or arm angle or changing speeds. If men of almost 50 with 80 mph fastballs can do it (Orosco, Wilhelm, Moyer, etc.), I would think SOME younger woman in great physical condition could manage some day.
    Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

    1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    The men she beat were not top tier PGA players.
    Top tier PGA players? Your original quote was "if women can't compete with men in pro golf I can't see how a woman can hold her own in the majors." You just said women and men, you didn't say anything about top tier.

    What does "hold her own" mean?

    Like I said before, someone is always going to be the worst player in any league. I think it's pretty safe to say that Annika would not have been the best player nor the worst player on the PGA tour had she played full time on that tour. Likely a lot closer to the worst, but that would be good enough to belong.

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipitch View Post
    Top tier PGA players? Your original quote was "if women can't compete with men in pro golf I can't see how a woman can hold her own in the majors." You just said women and men, you didn't say anything about top tier.
    Ummm...the major leagues are the top tier.

    What does "hold her own" mean?
    It means to be competitive as in compete for PGA Tour victories.

    Like I said before, someone is always going to be the worst player in any league. I think it's pretty safe to say that Annika would not have been the best player nor the worst player on the PGA tour had she played full time on that tour. Likely a lot closer to the worst, but that would be good enough to belong.
    This is where I have a different perspective. Annika is pehaps the greatest female golfer of all time. She dominated the LPGA. She was one of the first women golfers to lift weights to get stronger. She would either be among the worst PGA players if she even could have qualify for the PGA Tour. Now think of the gap between Annika and the rest of her female peers. They are a fair a mount behind her. They would have no chance on the PGA Tour. And also a difference between golf and baseball is that women have been playing pro golf for years. Relatively few women even have the opportunity to play pro baseball so it's even less likely that there is some woman out there with major league potential. Look how people make fun of Tim Tebow and his chances of making the major leagues. And he's an elite male athlete. So most people think that Tebow has zero chance of making the majors but they think a woman can play in the majors?
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  17. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by toomanyhatz View Post
    Yeah, this is kind of my take. Jackie Robinson had to have the proper temperament AND top-line ability AND dispel the notion that blacks were physically inferior to whites.
    Yes, but black male athletes had dominated other sports for years before 1947; Major Taylor, Jack Johnson, Paul Robeson, Oscar Charleston, Jesse Owens, just to name a few.

    All the first woman would have to do is be competitive. As mentioned earlier in this thread, there ARE quantifiable physical differences between men and women. It would take a truly freakishly talented female to be a power hitter in the MLB, but with pitching you can get by on an unusual delivery or arm angle or changing speeds. If men of almost 50 with 80 mph fastballs can do it (Orosco, Wilhelm, Moyer, etc.), I would think SOME younger woman in great physical condition could manage some day.
    And those quantifiable physical differences are MASSIVE. Japanese knuckleball pitcher Eri Yoshida pitched for several years in indy ball. In 78 pro innings she had 17 K and 57 walks with a 7.62 ERA. Her knuckleball was just as fast as Tim Wakefield's yet that wasn't enough.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  18. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Ummm...the major leagues are the top tier.
    You weren't talking about the best leagues, you were talking about top tier players. Top tier PGA players are players like Rory, Spieth, Day, and DJ. Top tier MLB'ers are Trout, Donaldson, etc.

    Annika:
    1. Would not have been a top tier PGA player.
    2. Would not have been the worst player on the PGA tour.

    Do you agree with both 1 and 2?

  19. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Yes, but black male athletes had dominated other sports for years before 1947; Major Taylor, Jack Johnson, Paul Robeson, Oscar Charleston, Jesse Owens, just to name a few.


    And those quantifiable physical differences are MASSIVE. Japanese knuckleball pitcher Eri Yoshida pitched for several years in indy ball. In 78 pro innings she had 17 K and 57 walks with a 7.62 ERA. Her knuckleball was just as fast as Tim Wakefield's yet that wasn't enough.

    Yes, all those are very good reasons why baseball's 'ruling class' (of the time) was threatened by black players being signed and today's would NOT be threatened by the first woman, who, if successful, would be an anomaly. Not to say she would face NO prejudice, but it would be easier. ALL it would take would be ability, which was my point. I wasn't saying it would be easy to FIND that person, just that she'd have a few less things working against her.
    Last edited by toomanyhatz; 10-05-2016 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Clarity.
    Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

    1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

  20. #270
    There are dozens of obstacles to surmount before there is a Women's Major League Baseball (WMLB), building on the success of the Women's National Basketball Association (WNBA).

    One of the most important obstacles was passed last week in Brooklyn, New York during the World Classic's fourth and final Qualifier, as Justine Siegal was officially on the roster and in uniform (as # 15)
    as a Coach for the Israeli National Team, which went 3-0 to sweep the Qualifier.

    I think this is more important that getting one female player a spot on an MLB roster, because it would provide baseball player jobs to roughly 25 players per team times 8 teams =
    200 players.

  21. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLowry View Post
    There are dozens of obstacles to surmount before there is a Women's Major League Baseball (WMLB), building on the success of the Women's National Basketball Association (WNBA).

    One of the most important obstacles was passed last week in Brooklyn, New York during the World Classic's fourth and final Qualifier, as Justine Siegal was officially on the roster and in uniform (as # 15)
    as a Coach for the Israeli National Team, which went 3-0 to sweep the Qualifier.

    I think this is more important that getting one female player a spot on an MLB roster, because it would provide baseball player jobs to roughly 25 players per team times 8 teams =
    200 players.
    I agree with this 100%. Why is there this obsession with getting a woman into the majors? I'd rather see a women's MLB to see quality women's baseball.
    Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 10-07-2016 at 11:00 AM.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  22. #272
    One more obstacle to professional major league baseball has crumbled.

    The National Women's Hockey League (NWHL) began play today with
    four team - Boston Pride, Buffalo Beauts, Connecticut Whale, and New York
    Riveters.

    The Women's National Basketball Association (WNBA) started in 1996.

    The National Women's Soccer League (NWSL) began in 2012, preceded by
    Women's Professional Soccer in 2007.

    So only football and baseball remain without a women's league.

  23. #273
    FWIW: The Solheim Cup is a biennial golf tournament for professional women golfers contested by teams representing Europe and the United States. It is named after the Norwegian-American golf club manufacturer Karsten Solheim, who was a driving force behind its creation.

    The inaugural Cup was held in 1990, and the event was staged in even number years until 2002, alternating years with the Ryder Cup (the equivalent men's event). As part of the general reshuffling of team golf events after the one-year postponement of the 2001 Ryder Cup following the September 11 attacks, the Solheim Cup switched to odd numbered years beginning in 2003.

    The current holders are the U.S. who won at Golf Club St. Leon-Rot in Baden-Württemberg, Germany in 2015. The next contest will be at the Des Moines Golf and Country Club in West Des Moines, Iowa from 18 to 20 August 2017.

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