Mike Piazza

[Paulypal]

I don't see how anyone can claim Biggio isn't a HOFer...

There aren't many magical numbers left in baseball, but surely 3,000 is still one of them.

The only reason he's "suspected" of steroids is the era he played, which is an unfair supposition and lumping in, I agree with our old friend, good ol' Al Leiter...

If a player's had actual evidence against them--ie, tested positive, shown up on a report, etc.--then I think it's fair to hold steroids against them in the voting...
EVEN if you argue that steroid users should be allowed in, and that happened, I'd argue the steroid use should be held against them in judgement...
As such, if you wanted to argue that Clemens and Bonds were SO great that even taking steroids into account/pre-steroids they were/are HOFers, I'll listen...
If it's someone like Sammy Sosa, who went from 10-15 HRs to 30-40 HRs and then 66 while suddenly adding 40 lbs. or something, and they're proven cheaters, I say no way.

But if it's a Piazza, a Biggio, a Bagwell...or a Maddux or Glavine next year...

And the ONLY argument you have against them is that they happened to play during the steroid era, and have no actual evidence against them...

Then it's innocent before proven guilty, and any sportswriter who takes it upon themselves to let suspicion without evidence influence their judgment is not only logically impaired but, I would argue, an example of the sort of hand-wringing, self-important, self-indulgent, conceited histrionics present in today's society and culture that is disgusting and disgustingly-stupid--

And not only does baseball deserve better, but people in general deserve better than such an insipid attitude promulgated by they types who could never have hit a ball as far as a Piazza pop up, but will take THIS opportunity to act in an unfounded, vindictive manner.

(But how do I REALLY feel?)

You keep talking about Biggio and PED's. Biggio did not get elected because of suspicion. Biggio didnt get elected because he isnt a first ballot HOF'er ----- if he is a HOF'er at all.

Many, many players didnt get elected on the first ballot...why should Biggio be any different as he wasnt NEARLY a great player...not nearly.

Joe Dimaggio, Bill Terry, Al Simmons, Hank Greeenberg, Yogi Berra to name a few. If you dont know the names you should look it up. Then compare their numbers with Biggo....then tell me how upset you are that Biggio didnt make it in the first ballot.

Piazza will get in eventually.

[Shea Knight]

You keep talking about Biggio and PED's. Biggio did not get elected because of suspicion. Biggio didnt get elected because he isnt a first ballot HOF'er ----- if he is a HOF'er at all.

1. That "IF he's a HOFer" keeps coming up...I have to ask again how he CAN'T be thought a HOFer with 3,000 hits?

2. Given how few people reach that milestone and the questionable nature of this class...I'd have had him first ballot...

[Strawman]

There are a lot of interesting stories in Piazza's book from what I've read, but this is perhaps the strangest part:

Mike Piazza thinks Hispanic ballplayers need to learn English. “I certainly don’t dispute that Latin players are entitled to the same dreams and opportunities that I had, but I’m sorry: when they arrive on U.S. soil, the onus isn’t on the American players to learn Spanish,” he writes in his memoir. “It’s on the Latin players to learn English.”

Tensions between Piazza and Latin ballplayers simmered more than once during his 16-year career. Piazza describes “some kind of weird Hispanic conspiracy against me, almost like a secret brotherhood, a Latin mafia-type of thing.”

Piazza comes across as paranoid and intolerant. I liked the guy as a player, but this is loonville.

[Ben Grimm]

There are a lot of interesting stories in Piazza's book from what I've read, but this is perhaps the strangest part:



Piazza comes across as paranoid and intolerant. I liked the guy as a player, but this is loonville.

Mike was on one of the national morning news programs today. It was interesting to hear how much credit he gives Reggie Smith in making him a hitter. He mentioned Ted Williams, of course, who was with him as a kid. They asked if he was disappointed in not making into the HoF, and he said he felt great to get nearly 59% of the votes considering the names on the ballot. Didn't come off as sounding upset, and using a NY reference, mentioned it took Joe DiMaggio a few years to gain enshrinement. He said he likes the direction MLB is taking towards PEDs and such - he also was emphatic about not using, once again referring back to Williams/Reggie help with his approach. Then again, I'd expect anybody to deny (whether they did or didn't use) until proven otherwise. He looks alot different without the 'stache too.

[bluesky5]

There are a lot of interesting stories in Piazza's book from what I've read, but this is perhaps the strangest part:

Mike Piazza thinks Hispanic ballplayers need to learn English. “I certainly don’t dispute that Latin players are entitled to the same dreams and opportunities that I had, but I’m sorry: when they arrive on U.S. soil, the onus isn’t on the American players to learn Spanish,” he writes in his memoir. “It’s on the Latin players to learn English.”

Tensions between Piazza and Latin ballplayers simmered more than once during his 16-year career. Piazza describes “some kind of weird Hispanic conspiracy against me, almost like a secret brotherhood, a Latin mafia-type of thing.”

Piazza comes across as paranoid and intolerant. I liked the guy as a player, but this is loonville.

The freemasons are keeping Piazza out of the HoF. Its part of their secret doctrine. Why they put the Latin American lodges on it, I don't know.

[filihok]

Biggio didnt get elected because he isnt a first ballot HOF'er ----- if he is a HOF'er at all.

What's the difference between a first ballot hall of famer and anyone else? You're a hall of famer or you're not. Who cares how many times you've been on the ballot?

[Ben Grimm]

What's the difference between a first ballot hall of famer and anyone else? You're a hall of famer or you're not. Who cares how many times you've been on the ballot?

You and I would assume so. But pro players have massive egos. They measure each other by contracts, records broken and HoF consideration. It's just how their minds work.

[filihok]

You and I would assume so. But pro players have massive egos. They measure each other by contracts, records broken and HoF consideration. It's just how their minds work.

That's fine.

But what goes on in the heads of the HoF voters (LOL)? "Player isn't a hall of famer this year, but he will be next year" SMH

[Ben Grimm]

That's fine.

But what goes on in the heads of the HoF voters (LOL)? "Player isn't a hall of famer this year, but he will be next year" SMH

LOL. Half the voters are off their rockers IMO. Too many old-school thinkers who 1) over prioritize baseball card stats (RBI, Runs, Wins, etc) and 2) want to keep their legends (myths?) in tact - meaning nobody can get in first ballot because it would raise questions about the ghosts of the past. Baseball's very backwards.

[Jackaroo Dave]

That's fine.

But what goes on in the heads of the HoF voters (LOL)? "Player isn't a hall of famer this year, but he will be next year" SMH

As Ben said, I think it's pretty much common knowledge that some writers distinguish between first-ballot and run-of-the-mill HOFers.

The way the process has worked up until now, that attitude jibes with the gradual consensus-seeking process implied by the high percentage necessary for enshrinement and the large number of opportunities for a player who musters enough support to stay on the ballot.

"I am not sure, myself. I will wait a while and consider the judgments of my learned colleagues" is a respectable position. I doubt it is the one held by most first-ballot deniers, but up until recently, it fit in pretty well.

Now, voters may be more polarized and less apt to consult their peers' opinions if different. (c/o Nate Silver)

[Strawman]

The freemasons are keeping Piazza out of the HoF. Its part of their secret doctrine. Why they put the Latin American lodges on it, I don't know.

That's pretty funny.

[Shea Knight]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...pR5RYA.EHQtDMD

"A biography of Mike Piazza comes out Tuesday, and he reportedly addresses everything you'd want a Mike Piazza bio to address. Did he do steroids? ("No.") Should he be in the Hall of Fame? ("Yes.") What was up with that "I'm not gay" press conference? (???) And does he still hold a grudge against Roger Clemens?

During the 2000 regular season, Clemens struck Piazza in the helmet with a pitch, giving everyone a juicy subtext for the next time they met — later that season in the World Series. The New York Post (spolier alert!) has read the book for Piazza's recollection:

Piazza tells how he mapped out a plan for revenge — taking karate lessons and visualizing the next time they would go at it.

I would approach with my fist pulled back. I figured he’d throw his glove out for protection. I’d parry the glove and then get after it,” Piazza writes.
He would get his chance in October — when the upstart Mets met their crosstown rivals in the World Series. The coming confrontation between the Mets’ 12-time All-Star catcher and the Bombers’ hard-case hurler was the talk of the city."

Wow Mike, lol...happy you didn't fight in the end, but wow...nobody messes with Mike Piazza--

He might not be able to throw to 2nd base without bouncing it, but he can blast one out of the stadium or karate chop a runner coming home! xD

STILL my favorite player ever!

[redban]

Love Mike Piazza - I'll be reading his book soon.

I'm glad he didn't fight Clemens.

[Paulypal]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...pR5RYA.EHQtDMD

"A biography of Mike Piazza comes out Tuesday, and he reportedly addresses everything you'd want a Mike Piazza bio to address. Did he do steroids? ("No.") Should he be in the Hall of Fame? ("Yes.") What was up with that "I'm not gay" press conference? (???) And does he still hold a grudge against Roger Clemens?

During the 2000 regular season, Clemens struck Piazza in the helmet with a pitch, giving everyone a juicy subtext for the next time they met — later that season in the World Series. The New York Post (spolier alert!) has read the book for Piazza's recollection:

Piazza tells how he mapped out a plan for revenge — taking karate lessons and visualizing the next time they would go at it.

I would approach with my fist pulled back. I figured he’d throw his glove out for protection. I’d parry the glove and then get after it,” Piazza writes.
He would get his chance in October — when the upstart Mets met their crosstown rivals in the World Series. The coming confrontation between the Mets’ 12-time All-Star catcher and the Bombers’ hard-case hurler was the talk of the city."

Wow Mike, lol...happy you didn't fight in the end, but wow...nobody messes with Mike Piazza--

He might not be able to throw to 2nd base without bouncing it, but he can blast one out of the stadium or karate chop a runner coming home! xD

STILL my favorite player ever!

I was disappointed that he didnt go after Clemens. I still am. Obviously so was Piazza.

[Mongoose]

I was disappointed that he didnt go after Clemens. I still am. Obviously so was Piazza.

It's a question of team culture. The 1986 Mets would have gang tackled Clemens. One of Fred Wilpon's main priorities when he hijacked the team after 1986 was to neuter it. Trading Kevin Mitchell for Kevin McReynolds was the first and clearest example of the brain transplant which would occur.

Piazza might not have been a fighter, but I guarantee if he'd been there in 1986 he'd never have tolerated that. The whole environment was different. I believe the rest of the team would have been in the infield before Piazza had reached the mound. I consider Piazza's reaction a symptom of the generally dispassionate, dismal atmosphere that's hung over the team since Wilpon actively remade its image.

This incident encapsulates why I found the mid-80s teams so satisfying and subsequent teams so dissatisfying.

[Paulypal]

It's a question of team culture. The 1986 Mets would have gang tackled Clemens. One of Fred Wilpon's main priorities when he hijacked the team after 1986 was to neuter it. Trading Kevin Mitchell for Kevin McReynolds was the first and clearest example of the brain transplant which would occur.

Piazza might not have been a fighter, but I guarantee if he'd been there in 1986 he'd never have tolerated that. The whole environment was different. I believe the rest of the team would have been in the infield before Piazza had reached the mound. I consider Piazza's reaction a symptom of the generally dispassionate, dismal atmosphere that's hung over the team since Wilpon actively remade its image.

This incident encapsulates why I found the mid-80s teams so satisfying and subsequent teams so dissatisfying.

Couldn't agree more. Most people on this board disagree with our opinion. They say the team needed him and charging the mound wouldn't prove anything except to lose our best player.

I say it may have sacrificed that game, but they lost anyway. To me it would have showed we don't take that $@&t. Especially after Piazza was put in the hospital by the same douche bag. Mike Hampton said "we were all on the top step waiting to go, but Mike didn't so we didn't"

Obviously Piazza felt he should have done more hence the karate lessons. I always liked Piazza, but I wanted him to go after Clemens. Either the dugout would have emptied right there or Jeter would have had needed surgery to remove the ball from his temple

The mid 80's team would have settled this the day Clemens put Piazza on his back. They wouldnt have waited until October.

More embarrassing was Shawn Estes' feeble pitch behind Clemens the next season.

[theAmazingMet]

I bet alot of people wish they could throw at Clemens head. Shame that we had to rely on Shawn Estes for revenge. Coulda used a Maracial, or Gibson there.