Hey BBF experts, here's 25 more players to rank!

[JR Hart]

Here you have it, more perspective HOFers to rate. Thanks for all the parcipitation. I just posted the rankings of the first 175. As usual the scale is:

5-Why is he not in? (if he was eligible)
4- Has a good case
3- marginal, has some merit
2-comes up short
1-are you kidding me?

Here are the players. As always, I really like when posters add comments to their rankings.

Juan Pierre
Juan Gonzalez
Ken Griffey Jr
Lance Berkman
Larry Jackson
Luis Gonzalez
Matt Williams
Miguel Tejada
Mike Garcia
Mike Piazza
Randy Myers
Reggie Smith
Riggs Stephenson
Rob Nen
Robin Ventura
Rocky Colavito
Ron Cey
Steve Finley
Thurman Munson
Tommy Bridges
Tony Fernandez
Trevor Hoffman
Troy Percival
Wes Ferrell
Wilbur Wood

[Bothrops Atrox]

Juan Pierre - 1 (is O) an option?
Juan Gonzalez -2
Ken Griffey Jr - 5
Lance Berkman - 3
Larry Jackson -2
Luis Gonzalez -2
Matt Williams -2
Miguel Tejada -2
Mike Garcia -1
Mike Piazza -5
Randy Myers -1
Reggie Smith -3
Riggs Stephenson -1
Rob Nen -1
Robin Ventura -3
Rocky Colavito -2
Ron Cey -2
Steve Finley -2
Thurman Munson -3
Tommy Bridges -2 (maybe 3 - I might change this)
Tony Fernandez -2
Trevor Hoffman -3
Troy Percival -1
Wes Ferrell -4 (unimaginably underrated - massive 7-8 year pitching/hitting peak)
Wilbur Wood -2

[leecemark]

Juan Pierre - 1
Juan Gonzalez -2
Ken Griffey Jr -5
Lance Berkman - 2
Larry Jackson - 2
Luis Gonzalez - 2
Matt Williams - 2
Miguel Tejada - 2
Mike Garcia - 1
Mike Piazza - 5
Randy Myers - 1
Reggie Smith - 3
Riggs Stephenson - 1
Rob Nen - 1
Robin Ventura - 2
Rocky Colavito - 2
Ron Cey - 2
Steve Finley - 2
Thurman Munson - 3
Tommy Bridges - 3 (deserves some WWII credit)
Tony Fernandez - 2
Trevor Hoffman - 3
Troy Percival - 1
Wes Ferrell - 4
Wilbur Wood - 2

[NJRob65]

Juan Pierre- 1
Juan Gonzalez- 2
Ken Griffey Jr.- 5
Lance Berkman- 3
Larry Jackson- 3
Luis Gonzalez- 2
Matt Williams- 2
Miguel Tejada- 2
Mike Garcia- 1
Mike Piazza- 5
Randy Myers- 1
Reggie Smith- 4 (tremendously underrated)
Riggs Stephenson- 2
Robb Nen- 1
Robin Ventura- 3
Rocky Colavito- 2
Ron Cey- 3
Steve Finley- 2
Thurman Munson- 3
Tommy Bridges- 3
Tony Fernandez- 2
Trevor Hoffman- 3
Troy Percival- 1
Wes Ferrell- 4 (his hitting raises him from a 3 to a 4)
Wilbur Wood- 3

[toomanyhatz]

Juan Pierre - 1 - Speed and a games streak that never should have happened is not enough. A very average player or less otherwise.
Juan Gonzalez 3 - I value the RBI more than some, clearly. Still, short peak and PEDs tempt me to lower it.
Ken Griffey Jr - 5 - No-brainer unless any new doubts arise.
Lance Berkman - 3 - The very definition of borderline? Counting stats not impressive, everything else is. A better hitter than Gil Hodges, as much as I hate to admit it.
Larry Jackson - 1 - A workhorse, but not much else. Really just a one-year peak.
Luis Gonzalez -2 - Other than that one season for which doubts will always follow him, he's solid and unspectacular. I liked him as a player despite his Dodger-killing ways, but he falls short of the, say, Chet Lemon benchmark, let alone the HoF one.
Matt Williams -2 - Good run-producer and underrated for other parts of his game besides the obvious. Still Hall of the Very Good.
Miguel Tejada -2 - Quick fizzle. Still, nobody would have put him ahead of Nomar when they started, so something to be said for him.
Mike Garcia - 2 - Far too much 'what if' to seriously consider, but made the most of what little time he had.
Mike Piazza -5 - Unless the doubts amount to more than they have so far.
Randy Myers -2 - Couldn't stay healthy long enough to meet the increased benchmarks for counting stats, but as good as Lee Smith most of the time.
Reggie Smith -3 - Loved him as a Dodger, if he'd had a more easygoing personality he might've ended up managing them.
Riggs Stephenson -3 - Late start and early end is all that keeps him out.
Rob Nen -1 - Add him to the growing list of closers that couldn't keep it up for a full decade. Anything more than 5 years is impressive, but in no way hall-worthy.
Robin Ventura -2 - Slightly below Ron Cey.:hyper: The Torre/Hodges benchmark doesn't bode well for managing to help his case, even if he succeeds as well as I think he might.
Rocky Colavito -2 - If ever a player could've benefitted from PEDs.
Ron Cey - 2 - 2+, really, but still not enough ultimately.
Steve Finley - 1 - Nice peak, not enough of it.
Thurman Munson - 2 - If he'd only been a bit nicer to writers, might have gotten the Clemente treatment...
Tommy Bridges -2 - Slightly better than Dave McNally or Dave Stewart, since he was better than average outside of it, but peak still too short.
Tony Fernandez -1 - Played in the wrong era.
Trevor Hoffman - 5 - You either put closers in or you don't. I say you do.
Troy Percival -1 - But quick burnouts are far too common for anything less than a decade to impress. See also Nen, Robb.
Wes Ferrell - 3 - Better than many pitchers in there, of course. And a throwback to an era when pitchers could help their own cause with the bat.
Wilbur Wood -2 - Amazing peak, but not enough of it ultimately. Maybe if he could've held on longer.

[dgarza]

Juan Pierre - 1
Juan Gonzalez - 2
Ken Griffey Jr -5
Lance Berkman - 4
Larry Jackson - 1
Luis Gonzalez - 2
Matt Williams - 2
Miguel Tejada - 4
Mike Garcia - 1
Mike Piazza - 5
Randy Myers - 2
Reggie Smith - 3
Riggs Stephenson - 1
Rob Nen - 2
Robin Ventura - 1
Rocky Colavito - 3
Ron Cey - 2
Steve Finley - 1
Thurman Munson - 1
Tommy Bridges - 2
Tony Fernandez - 2
Trevor Hoffman - 5
Troy Percival - 2
Wes Ferrell - 2
Wilbur Wood - 2

[Zito75]

Juan Pierre 1
Juan Gonzalez 1
Ken Griffey Jr 5
Lance Berkman 3
Larry Jackson 1
Luis Gonzalez 2
Matt Williams 2
Miguel Tejada 2
Mike Garcia 1
Mike Piazza 5
Randy Myers 2
Reggie Smith 1
Riggs Stephenson 1
Rob Nen 1
Robin Ventura 2
Rocky Colavito 2
Ron Cey 2
Steve Finley 1
Thurman Munson 3
Tommy Bridges 4
Tony Fernandez 2
Trevor Hoffman 4
Troy Percival 1
Wes Ferrell 4
Wilbur Wood 2

[Francoeurstein]

Juan Pierre 1
Juan Gonzalez 2
Ken Griffey Jr 5
Lance Berkman 3
Larry Jackson 2
Luis Gonzalez 2
Matt Williams 1
Miguel Tejada 2
Mike Garcia 1
Mike Piazza 5
Randy Myers 1
Reggie Smith 3
Riggs Stephenson 1
Robb Nen 1
Robin Ventura 2
Rocky Colavito 2
Ron Cey 2
Steve Finley 2
Thurman Munson 2
Tommy Bridges 2
Tony Fernandez 1
Trevor Hoffman 4
Troy Percival 1
Wes Ferrell 3
Wilbur Wood 2

[henrich]

Juan Pierre 1 i like him more as a roto/fantasy player than i do as a hall candidate.
Juan Gonzalez 2 borderline candidate, steroids rules him on the wrong side.
Ken Griffey Jr 5 his star faded fast after his first year in cincinnati. I'm not sure if the centerfielder we traded didn't have a better finish (cameron) than he did, however his work in the 90s (all century player honors, clean image) first or second ballot
Lance Berkman 3 He needs to finish strong to earn this 3. He just signed with the rangers and i think he can turn it on again. He seemed lost without passion last year, so he will need to recharge rededicate to get there
Larry Jackson 1
Luis Gonzalez 3 he had some unbelievable seasons coupled with a good career. he's a head scratcher, not sure if he compares to vern stephens albeit it at a different position
Matt Williams 3 I can't believe he was one and done in balloting-that was way too harsh.
Miguel Tejada 2 one of the big 4 with nomar, arod and jeter. I think he falls short of 2 of the 3
Mike Garcia 1
Mike Piazza 5 one of the most prolific hitting catchers of his era. his defense was awful, but i'm not sure the voters care.
Randy Myers 3 i think myers has a very strong case and i was tempted to put 4, but i checked my personal feelings
Reggie Smith 2 he's good, belongs in the very good hall of fame
Riggs Stephenson 1
Rob Nen 1 had serious talent, not enough longevity for me in his role
Robin Ventura 3 had hof potential, but didn't quite get there for me, perhaps near ron cey
Rocky Colavito 3 had hof potential
Ron Cey 3 great threat posted earlier between cey and garvey which made me rethink cey a bit, but i still take garvey over cey's case. it wouldn't offend me if he was selected.
Steve Finley 4 I may be overrating him a bit, but he scores very well in the system that i use and he was a ball player with speed and a power combination that played for a number of winning ball clubs.
Thurman Munson 3 i'm not an advocate for him, but i can see where he was a legitimate talent, his untimely death was unfortunate.
Tommy Bridges 1
Tony Fernandez 2
Trevor Hoffman 5 one of the best closers ever
Troy Percival 2
Wes Ferrell 1
Wilbur Wood 2

[Bothrops Atrox]

Randy Myers 3
Steve Finley 4
Tommy Bridges 1
Wes Ferrell 1

Always interesting at the ol' BBF.

[henrich]

if we all had the same opinions it wouldn't be as interesting i don't count pitchers hitting nor do i count hitters pitching-if that helps explain ferrell for you.

[Sockeye]

Juan Pierre - 2
Juan Gonzalez - 5
Ken Griffey Jr - 5
Lance Berkman - 3
Larry Jackson - 1
Luis Gonzalez - 2
Matt Williams - 2
Miguel Tejada - 2
Mike Garcia - 1
Mike Piazza - 5
Randy Myers - 1
Reggie Smith - 2
Riggs Stephenson - 1
Rob Nen - 1
Robin Ventura - 2
Rocky Colavito - 2
Ron Cey - 2
Steve Finley - 2
Thurman Munson - 1
Tommy Bridges - 1
Tony Fernandez - 1
Trevor Hoffman - 3
Troy Percival - 2
Wes Ferrell - 1
Wilbur Wood - 1

[Bothrops Atrox]

if we all had the same opinions it wouldn't be as interesting i don't count pitchers hitting nor do i count hitters pitching-if that helps explain ferrell for you.

How can you pretend all of those hits and RBIs and contributions to his team winning never happened? In his prime, Wes Ferrell allowed his teams to be the only team to have a DH every 4th game. Incredibly real and incredibly valuable. So when Rick Ferrell gets a big hit we credit him, but when Wes does the same thing we pretend it didn't happen. Difference of opinion for sure. I couldn't possibly disagree more with a philosophy that this one.

[PVNICK]

Juan Pierre - 1
Juan Gonzalez - 2 sorry but I am biased against PED users
Ken Griffey Jr - 5
Lance Berkman - 4 a classic rate stat hero, counting stat zero - well not quite but by rate stats he is a top 15-20 or so LF
Larry Jackson - 2
Luis Gonzalez - 1 one dubious season and career spike
Matt Williams - 4 he really just faded fast or so it seemed, arguably a top 15-20 3B
Miguel Tejada - 2, see Gonzalez, Juan
Mike Garcia - 1 really good and undernoted but career too short
Mike Piazza - 5 he was way better than Juan or Tejada should the whispers be true (and I dodn't knwo that that makes sense)
Randy Myers - 2 only because I liked him I 'm not a one inning closer guy
Reggie Smith - 4
Riggs Stephenson - 1 high BA in a high BA era with little else
Rob Nen - 1 pfft to the one inning closer
Robin Ventura - 3 maybe a 4 but he seems to get more credit for defense than a glance at the raw data woudl have you think, at any rate along with Cey and Wiliams top 15-25 is #B deserves at least a thought
Rocky Colavito - 3 I think he was overshadowed and has a legendary arm
Ron Cey - 3 see Ventura
Steve Finley - 2 compiler with a spike in ability during a dubious
Thurman Munson - 3
Tommy Bridges - 3
Tony Fernandez - 3 he was here and there the best SS in the AL during the mid 80s
Trevor Hoffman - 3 I'm not crazy about this but he is at the top of the heap of one inning closers (Mariano is in a category of his own)
Troy Percival - 1
Wes Ferrell - 4 high peak, good bat, limited IP
Wilbur Wood - 3 some of those early 70s seasons were out of this world. near 400 IP sub 2.00 ERA IIRC. Perception suffers from being a knuckleballer and BMI challenged

[dgarza]

In his prime, Wes Ferrell allowed his teams to be the only team to have a DH every 4th game.

Well, let's not pretend that Ferrell was the only one out there doing this. There were several other teams that had, in their prime, similar hitting pitchers. Red Ruffing, Red Lucas, George Uhle, Jack Scott, Walter Johnson, etc.

I don't mean to dismiss his offensive value, for he was likely the best hitting pitcher of his time, but let's give credit were credit is due to these other pitchers.