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Thread: 2017 World Baseball Classic

  1. #1
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    2017 World Baseball Classic

    I understand that the 2013 WBC hasn't started yet, but there are some of us that cannot wait to start discussing the 2017 WBC and its 2016 Qualifiers. Let's try keeping the 2013 WBC thread clear of any 2017 WBC talk, and discuss them on this thread instead. Obviously, at this moment this thread will be speculative, and over time it will evolve into something like the 2013 WBC thread.

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    Here are my preliminary picks for relegation, 2016 Qualifier Groups and hosts:

    2013 Relegated teams: China, Australia, Spain & Italy

    Asia Group: China, Israel, Philippines, Thailand
    Host: Guangdong Sports Center- Guongzhou, China



    Latin American Group: Panama, Colombia, Nicaragua, Spain
    Host: Estadio Rod Carew- Panama City, Panama



    European Group: Italy, Germany, Great Britain, France
    Host: Stadio Steno Borghese- Nettuno, Italy



    Wildcard Group: Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Czech Republic
    Host: Blue Sox Stadium- Sydney, Australia


    Here is the reasoning behind my Grouping:

    Asia Latin America Europe Africa/Europe/Oceania
    2013 Relegated Teams China Spain Italy Australia
    2012 WBCQ 2nd Place Israel Panama Germany New Zealand
    012 WBCQ 3rd Place Philippines Colombia Great Britain South Africa
    012 WBCQ 4th Place Thailand Nicaragua France Czech Republic
    Last edited by NewEnglandAmazins; 01-29-2013 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Replacing wildcard w/ AEO

  3. #3
    Occurred to me that the WBC could opt to go with 5-team first round pools in '17 and have no relegation this time. That way the they could guarantee that Australia, China, Italy and Brazil--all major development countries--can get automatic berths. And that way, they can expand the qualifiers by four teams (like Sweden, Russia, Argentina, and Pakistan or Indonesia.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    Occurred to me that the WBC could opt to go with 5-team first round pools in '17 and have no relegation this time. That way the they could guarantee that Australia, China, Italy and Brazil--all major development countries--can get automatic berths. And that way, they can expand the qualifiers by four teams (like Sweden, Russia, Argentina, and Pakistan or Indonesia.)
    It would be great if that happened, but you know that the WBCI's M.O. is to make gradual changes between tournaments. It can happen, if the 2013 WBC far exceeds their projections and hopefully it will.

  5. #5
    That's probably right.

    Oh, and I think your relegation prediction is probably right too. I'd put Great Britain instead of Czech into the Sydney pool. (They're all longtime archrivals in rugby and cricket with the shared imperial history. Plus, Germany and Czech Republic have something of a baseball rivalry.)

    Also, I know nothing about Guangdong's ability to host a baseball tournament. I'd almost prefer to see the Philippines get its act together, get some resources, and bring its Rizal Memorial Stadium in Manila into the 21st century.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    That's probably right.

    Oh, and I think your relegation prediction is probably right too. I'd put Great Britain instead of Czech into the Sydney pool. (They're all longtime archrivals in rugby and cricket with the shared imperial history. Plus, Germany and Czech Republic have something of a baseball rivalry.)

    Also, I know nothing about Guangdong's ability to host a baseball tournament. I'd almost prefer to see the Philippines get its act together, get some resources, and bring its Rizal Memorial Stadium in Manila into the 21st century.
    The Guongdong Complex was used to host the Asia Games baseball tournament in 2010. I am not sure if it's still standing, some the surrounding structures have been removed. Here is the latest Google maps image:

    Guangdong Complex.png

    btw, A former British Empire group would be interesting.

  7. #7
    I'm sure the Chinese authorities could build whatever they need to build in whatever time they need to build it in order to host a tournament. So it could be anywhere in the country. I'm just not sure the games would attract much attention. It would really put MLB's China experiment to the test.
    Last edited by Rally Monkey; 01-27-2013 at 04:56 PM.

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    You're right and MLB can't just pick any stadium to host a WBCQ. Putting the China experiment to the test may be a good thing, because MLB would then have to increase their promotional effort there.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnglandAmazins View Post
    You're right and MLB can't just pick any stadium to host a WBCQ. Putting the China experiment to the test may be a good thing, because MLB would then have to increase their promotional effort there.
    Or give up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    Or give up.
    I don't expect that to happen for at least another ten years.

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    I'm thinking of a 5 team double elimination,
    http://khsaa.org/forms/br205s.pdf
    that'll include 4 more teams in the qualifier, and it will give an advantage to the relegated teams.
    Relegated team: China, Italy, Spain, Australia

    Asian Round:
    1. China
    2. Israel
    3. Philippines
    4. Pakistan
    5. Bahamas(remember they had a deal with WBC inc)

    Wild Card Round
    1. Australia
    2. New Zealand
    3. South Africa
    4. Czech Republic
    5. Sweden

    Latin America
    1. Spain (poor espanas)
    2. Panama
    3. Colombia
    4. Nicaragua
    5. Argentina

    Europe
    1. Italy
    2. Germany
    3. Great Britain
    4. France
    5. Russia(MLB's ambition to spread the market)

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    I really like this format I. Slugger, but I don't think the Bahamas will be getting the nod; especially in the Asia region. What do you think of Sri Lanka? They just opened a baseball facility in December and it was funded by the Japanese government. The Japanese and Sri Lankan governments apparently have a good relationship, if the Japanese decide to send coaches to help reinforce a Sri Lanka baseball program it could help them surpass Pakistan, Indonesia and Thailand in terms of quality. There may be some raw baseball talent in Sri Lanka, they are a Cricket power, currently ranked 1 by ICC for T20.

    Source: http://www.ibaf.org/en/news/2012/12/...e-95d3032b854a
    Last edited by NewEnglandAmazins; 01-27-2013 at 08:22 PM.

  13. #13
    I've never seen a 5-team double elimination bracket before. I like it a lot—especially the fact that it only plays 8 games instead of the 10 games a 5-team round robin calls for.

    A few thoughts: I don't think the Bahamas ever had a "deal" with WBC. As I recall, there were some reports that Bahamian baseball officials were told they'd get a spot in the next WBC qualifiers, but who knows what was really said. At most, I'd expect that the Bahamas is on WBC's radar for possible expansion. But at the expense of another, larger market? I dunno.

    And if the Bahamas were included, it would be bizarre to put it in an Asia qualifier. It belongs in the Americas or Europe pools.

    Also, I'm not sure what this "wild card" business is. It’s the place we dump teams that don't fit into any other geographic pools? How about we call it the "Africa-Europe-Oceania" pool instead, and put Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Israel, and another African country in it. Like Uganda.

    Russia can be slotted into Asia if it needs to be. Or it can be left off, with Indonesia getting the nod instead.

    Here's what I mean:

    Asia
    1. China
    2. Philippines
    3. Thailand
    4. Pakistan
    5. Russia/Indonesia/Sri Lanka

    A-E-O
    1. Australia
    2. Israel
    3. New Zealand
    4. South Africa
    5. Uganda

    Americas
    1. Spain
    2. Panama
    3. Colombia
    4. Nicaragua
    5. Bahamas/Argentina

    Europe
    1. Italy
    2. Germany
    3. Czech Republic
    4. France
    5. Sweden

  14. #14
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    Rally, where is Great Britain? Also, Uganda may be too young to be ready for 2017, anyway it would be interesting to see them represented.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnglandAmazins View Post
    Rally, where is Great Britain? Also, Uganda may be too young to be ready for 2017, anyway it would be interesting to see them represented.
    Ah, I knew I was forgetting one. Swap Uganda out for Great Britain. But I do think MLB will put another African team in the qualifiers before too long. It'd be good for the gospel of the game--and an easy way to piggyback on all of the attention the Ugandan Little League program's been getting.

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    I can definitely see Uganda getting the nod for the 2020 Qualifiers, it's great to see how the game is growing there.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnglandAmazins View Post
    Here are my preliminary picks for relegation, 2016 Qualifier Groups and hosts:

    2013 Relegated teams: China, Australia, Spain & Italy

    Asia Group: China, Israel, Philippines, Thailand
    Host: Guangdong Sports Center- Guongzhou, China



    Latin American Group: Panama, Colombia, Nicaragua, Spain
    Host: Estadio Rod Carew- Panama City, Panama



    European Group: Italy, Germany, Great Britain, France
    Host: Stadio Steno Borghese- Nettuno, Italy



    Wildcard Group: Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Czech Republic
    Host: Blue Sox Stadium- Sydney, Australia


    Here is the reasoning behind my Grouping:

    Asia Latin America Europe Africa/Europe/Oceania
    2013 Relegated Teams China Spain Italy Australia
    2012 WBCQ 2nd Place Israel Panama Germany New Zealand
    012 WBCQ 3rd Place Philippines Colombia Great Britain South Africa
    012 WBCQ 4th Place Thailand Nicaragua France Czech Republic
    Agree with all you state, but I'd send Britain to Australia and the Czechs to Italy. Then you have a group in Australia that wouldn't be out of place in a cricket tournament.

    Israel's going to be an odd one placing.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cincy Fan View Post
    Israel's going to be an odd one placing.

    That's right. Israel is a member of the Confederation of European Baseball (CEB), so--strictly speaking--they should play against other European teams in any WBC qualifier. But, as we all know, the roster of Team Israel is almost entirely American. ("Team Israel" is the team that plays in the WBC, and shouldn't be confused with the "National Team", which is mostly Israeli citizens. For what it's worth.) So it's not farfetched to include Israel in an Americas grouping. And, given the country's location, it also makes sense to put them in an Asian and African group.

    So there's a lot of opportunity to be creative there. The problem comes, I think, from the fact that the team has the potential to be really, really good. And so WBC organizers would want to be careful not to put Israel in a pool where it could block a country that MLB is cultivating--like Australia, China, or South Africa. It's a bit of a challenge.

    Personally, I'd put them in a group featuring Australia because (1) it would encourage Australia to field the best qualifying team it can, (2) I think the talent of Australia and Israel's passport players probably compete at about the same level, and (3) an Israeli team playing in Australia would be more likely to get some local attention and support if the games are played in Australia (there are about 120,000 Jews living in Oz).

    Putting Israel in an Asian qualifier doesn't make as much sense to me.
    Last edited by Rally Monkey; 01-30-2013 at 10:08 AM.

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    Israel will be tough to place in that relegation scenario, and it makes sense to place them in Australia to provide more competition for the Aussies. But which team would be removed from the "cricket group"? It wouldn't be New Zealand, because that would break up the the Oceanic rivalry. South Africa would make more sense to join China, Philippines & Thailand in an Afro-Asian group. Would the WBCI want to secure a return to the main event for China or South Africa; or would they want to pave the way for Israel and Australia in separate groups?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    That's right. Israel is a member of the Confederation of European Baseball (CEB), so--strictly speaking--they should play against other European teams in any WBC qualifier. But, as we all know, the roster of Team Israel is almost entirely American.
    To be fair, the Brits were all Americans, the Italians are half American, the Spanish are Cubans/Dominicans/Venezuelans, and the Germans were a good number of Americans. The Israelis fit in well with Europe.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnglandAmazins View Post
    Israel will be tough to place in that relegation scenario, and it makes sense to place them in Australia to provide more competition for the Aussies. But which team would be removed from the "cricket group"? It wouldn't be New Zealand, because that would break up the the Oceanic rivalry. South Africa would make more sense to join China, Philippines & Thailand in an Afro-Asian group. Would the WBCI want to secure a return to the main event for China or South Africa; or would they want to pave the way for Israel and Australia in separate groups?
    South Africa has a good rivalry with Australia in all the "British sports".

    I think they'd definitely want to see China back if they went 0-3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cincy Fan View Post
    South Africa has a good rivalry with Australia in all the "British sports".

    I think they'd definitely want to see China back if they went 0-3.
    I like the idea of a "British Sports" or "cricket" group. Which team has a better chance of ending up in the China hosted Asia group?

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    You do mean the Opening Round of 2017 featuring four pools of five teams and round-robin play?

    I actually like the way the 2013 WBC is setup. First Round is Round Robin, Second Round is MDE, Semi-Finals and Finals are Single-Elimination, although I would make a few changes for 2017:

    Qualifiers become complete double elimination. No 2-1 team should be eliminated....two losses here.

    Qualifiers: Double Elimination
    First Round: Round Robin
    Second Round: Modified Double Elimination
    Semi-Finals and Final: Single Elimination.

    Hopefully at some point, it could go from 32 to 16 to 4, or 24 to 16 to 4.

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    I think to balance out the competitiveness, WBC should base the pool arrangement according to the result of the previous qualis(2012)
    Asia
    1. China
    2. Philippines
    3. Thailand
    4. Pakistan
    5. Russia/Indonesia/Sri Lanka

    A-E-O
    1. Australia
    2. Israel
    3. New Zealand
    4. South Africa
    5. Uganda

    Americas
    1. Spain
    2. Panama
    3. Colombia
    4. Nicaragua
    5. Bahamas/Argentina

    Europe
    1. Italy
    2. Germany
    3. Czech Republic
    4. France
    5. Sweden
    What I mean is in AEO pool there's two second place (Israel and NZ), and two third place team(GB and SA). The balance of the pool is pretty unequal...
    But at the same time, it's true that putting Israel in the Asian pool makes no sense in a regional perspective. Well let's see if these teams, Aus ITa SPA and Chi will be winless.

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    Sri Lanka will be a great fit! The opening of a baseball facility is a great step for Sri Lankan baseball but even before this, Japan was putting so much effort in its baseball program. They're almost there; they're clearly better than other west asian countries except for Pakistan, and the final score of West asia baseball cup was Pakistan 4-1 Sri Lanka.

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