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Thread: Chris Carpenter

  1. #1
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    Chris Carpenter

    Well, I haven't seen anything about this on the site yet. Chris Carpenter may not pitch this year. What do you guys think? I know we have a ton of young arms to cover down, along with Waino and Jaime. Is this the end for our Ace? If so, where do you place him among all the great Cardinals pitchers?

    I really hope this isn't the end, but it is getting a little ridiculous with all this complete or near complete seasons this guy has had to sit out due to injury. Personally, I am more upset about Carp going down than when Albert signed with the Angels. Carp is one of my absolute all time favorite players, period.

    Interested in hearing what you all have to say about him, the other young guys, our season, etc. Another big loss before the year even kicks off! Go Redbirds in 2013!
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

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  2. #2
    If any team can afford to lose an ace quality pitcher, it's the Cardinals.

    They've got:
    Wainwright
    Garcia
    Westbrook

    Then
    Lynn
    Miller
    Rosenthal
    Garcia

    who are all projected by ZiPS to be right around average or better.


    Carp was an excellent pitcher.

    Had a bit of a reputation as a jerk though.

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    Yeah, we do have a group of potential young starters, and don't forget Joe Kelly. He did real well for a while last summer, but didn't get a lot of run support when he first went into the rotation. I don't have a problem with any of these guys stepping up and contributing, obviously, but they will have some pretty big shoes to fill. Carpenter wasn't just an ace quality pitcher, he was also a huge team leader. If this is truly the end, his massive clubhouse presence will surely be missed as well.

    I appreciate the ZiPS projections you posted earlier, filihok. I do hope they are a little off, though! I hope these guys all end up being MUCH better than average! Lots of talented young arms to go with that corps of veteran pitchers. Certainly losing Carpenter for 2013 isn't the end for the Cardinals. As a big fan of his bulldog attitude and abilities, I would just hate to see it be the end of Chris Carpenter.
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    If any team can afford to lose an ace quality pitcher, it's the Cardinals.

    They've got:
    Wainwright
    Garcia
    Westbrook

    Then
    Lynn
    Miller
    Rosenthal
    Garcia

    who are all projected by ZiPS to be right around average or better.


    Carp was an excellent pitcher.

    Had a bit of a reputation as a jerk though.
    their rotation is deep but I think they lack an ace a bit. Wainwright and carp were both CY candidates (in 09 the finshed 2 and 3 in the CY voting), but last year wainwright only posted a pedestrian 3.9 ERA and carp did not pitch at all.

    the cards rotation is not bad and their offense will compensate for a lot but I feel better if I have 1 or 2 top pitchers that can post an ERA of about 3 or even under. hopefully one of the young guys can become such an ace, I'm not sure if WW ever gets back to this after his injury.

    Carps career has been really frustrating. when he is healthy he was nearly always a CY candidate but he was not healthy a lot of the time. the good thing about carp is that he doesn't seem to take a lot of time to come back after injuries (no wonder with all the training in comebacks). so he might be out till august and then still be a factor in the PS.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

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    I am just wondering if anyone who is far more versed in the methods of creating possible statistics (for future predictions, or in this case for lost seasons), than I am has figured out where Carp might be if he hadn't lost 2003, 2007, 2008, and almost all of 2012 to injury? I know he pitched Opening Day in '07, and came back for a few starts and relief appearances before being shut down after the ASG in '08, but essentially he lost a solid 4 seasons (without this one added to the list just yet) and half of 2002 as well. Anyone care to project what type of numbers the big guy could have, and where that may put him in the Hall of Fame discussion?

    I am an extremely biased Carpenter fan, just wanted to get that out there. However, I know he wouldn't be anywhere near closing in on 300 wins, or even 240 really. I think, conservatively, he lost at least 56 wins from his total which would put him at 200 right now. How much longer could he go, I don't know. We all know that the win total is a big number when the voters are considering a guy's Hall potential as a starter, and it seems (conservatively) Chris would be below many other guys with over 200 wins for their careers. However, I have faith that his quality of pitching after coming over and working with Dave Duncan, along with his amazing postseason success, and his CYA and 2 WS rings just may have swayed enough voters over time. Just my VERY biased opinion.

    Anyone else care to reckon where Carp would have been at this point in his career? I know I have seen filihok do this with hitters, and the math really impressed me. Matthew C. is also very good with the metrics side of the house, and I would be interested in his opinion as well. I know it is a moot point, here he is gone for the year with a 144-96 record at 37, and that clearly isn't going to get him any votes at all. Still, I am just interested in seeing what you guys think could have been. Thanks!
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

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    I read a couple days ago that it appears that Carp may come back this season. Sounds like he may work out of the bullpen, though. What do you guys think about a return for the one time ace as a reliever? Will he contribute anything as a long man or innings eater? Surely Matheny won't try and make him into a closer, like Eck or Smoltz did successfully. Any thoughts?
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

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    Well, doesn't seem like anyone cares about Carp trying to make another comeback. I guess that's because we have been through this so many times (2004, 2008, 2009, 2012, and now 2013). Too bad. This cat had Hall of Fame written all over him. Anyway, I just read the other day on ESPN fantasy baseball that Carp had some issues after throwing. I think he is doing simulated games or something like that, and pitching at least 4 innings a go. That sounds to me like he may be trying to get his old job back, and not just be stuck out in the 'pen. Either way, I hope it works and he is successful. I hate to see truly talented stars try a comeback and not really have anything left in the tank. If he were to retire, I would be fine with that, even though I may be one of his biggest fans. I just don't want to see him come back and not get it done. He has been a true ace and warrior out there for us. If I gotta paint a #29 on the wall myself, it will get there!

    Go get 'em Carp!
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

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    I don't think Carp will come back of he is a mop up bullpen guy, or even a 7th or 8th inning guy. Despite what appear to be some rather pedestrian career numbers when taken strictly at face value/one paper.. he has a lot of pride and significant postseason success that 98% of pitchers would love to have...

    I'd love to see him come back and spot start, even of that means 4-2 with a 4 ERA. Let the fans salute him properly... I'd buy a ticket to see him.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

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    Granted I haven't done much digging beyond the occasional STL Post Dispatch article on my phone... Last I knew he was "throwing" which is pretty amazing.

    Now it's multiple innings? And some minor problems? Kinda sad to be honest. Got any links for a lazy bum?
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

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    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Granted I haven't done much digging beyond the occasional STL Post Dispatch article on my phone... Last I knew he was "throwing" which is pretty amazing.

    Now it's multiple innings? And some minor problems? Kinda sad to be honest. Got any links for a lazy bum?
    You can find quick blurbs here Chris Carpenter @ Rotoworld
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

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    Here's some stuff from Rotowire that has little blurbs for the players on ESPN fantasy baseball:

    May 4,
    Carpenter (shoulder) could return in a relief role in late June or early July, The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports. SPIN: Carpenter was initially pessimistic about his chances of playing again, but now it sound like he could work out of the Cardinals bullpen by the end of the season. Given that he is unlikely to start or close, he probably will not have value in many fantasy leagues.

    May 10,

    Carpenter (shoulder) completed a 70-pitch session Friday, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports. SPIN: Although his career looked dead in the water when he suffered a shoulder setback in spring training, it appears Carpenter is now angling to return to the team in a relief capacity sometime by midseason. He'll likely be relegated to middle or long relief and doesn't figure to be in the mix for either wins or saves, diminishing his fantasy value.

    May 13,
    Carpenter (shoulder) threw another bullpen session Monday, the Associated Press reports. SPIN: Carpenter still has no timetable for his return, but it looks like he has more life left in his career, as he hopes to return to the Cardinals in the bullpen at some point this season.

    May 15,
    Carpenter (shoulder) will throw Saturday then complete a side session Monday, Brian Stull of 101 ESPN St. Louis reports. SPIN: With multiple sessions already under his belt, Carpenter appears primed to head out on a rehab assignment soon, perhaps as early as next week. He'll probably require a longer stint than normal since the Cardinals don't expect him to join the team until June or July, at that point he will assume a low level bullpen role.

    May 16,
    Carpenter may be conditioning himself to be a starter, the St. Louis Post Dispatch reports. SPIN: Carpenter has been following a rehab plan similar to that of a starting pitcher. Carpenter plans to sit down three times during his session on Saturday to simulate the break between innings. A once dominant starter, Carpenter could make for an interesting second half stash for fantasy owners.

    May 22,
    The Cardinals are hopeful that Carpenter (shoulder) will rejoin the rotation in late June or early July, CBS Sports' Scott Miller reports. SPIN: It was initially believed that Carpenter's best case scenario was to return in a late season relief role, but he has been stretching out as a starter in his throwing sessions, moving up to about 80 pitches in his workouts. With the recent news that Jaime Garcia could face season-ending shoulder surgery, Carpenter would provide a natural replacement and wouldn't force the team to call up one of its high profile prospects and allow his arbitration clock to start ticking. Carpenter is expected to begin facing hitters next week if he checks out OK following an extended bullpen session Thursday.

    May 24,
    Carpenter (shoulder) completed a bullpen session without any issues Friday, Mlb.com's Jenifer Langosch reports. SPIN: The Cardinals haven't determined the next course of action for Carpenter, but it could be facing live hitters in batting practice. As the days pass, he's looking increasingly likely to return to the big club at some point in June, with all indications that it will be as a member of the rotation.

    May 25,
    Carpenter (shoulder) will not face hitters Tuesday as planned, and instead will be "backing off" after not feeling as good following his last bullpen session, Jenifer Langosch of Mlb.com reports. SPIN: While no issues were initially reported after Friday's bullpen session, it sounds like Carpenter didn't respond well overnight. The right-hander appeared on pace for activation at some point in June, and though he plans to continue with long toss and bullpen sessions for now, Carpenter's status for a return is now up in the air at this point.

    May 30,
    Carpenter resumed throwing from the mound on Wednesday and felt good after throwing 25-30 pitches, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports. SPIN: Carpenter had decided to slow down his recovery schedule after experiencing right-shoulder fatigue last week. The Cardinal's starting rotation has been decimated with injuries, and Carpenter could work his way into the rotation by midseason.


    So I guess it wasn't game action, just live BP and simulated inning breaks. Either way, it could be very exciting if he comes back and can still handle the load of a starter for the rest of the year. I have always been a huge fan of the big ace and I hope he does well not only for the team but also for himself.
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

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    Here's the latest I got off ESPN regarding Carp:

    June 5,
    Carpenter will pitch his second round of live batting practice Thursday, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports. SPIN: The Cardinals will make a decision on Carpenter's next step following Thursday's outing, but if all goes well, it's possible he could head out on a rehab assignment.
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

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    I don't know if he has been shut down for good now or not. Maybe one of you guys have better intel on his situation now. I saw on his player card in my ESPN fantasy league a couple weeks ago that he had some issue with his back I think, maybe his troublesome shoulder, don't quite remember now, and they said he was being scratched on that possible rehab assignment. No news since then, but I haven't been looking in other areas either. Just wondering what you guys have heard about him?

    I wasn't expecting the Carp of old, but I would like to see him have one last decent outing in a Cardinals uniform before he hangs 'em up. Hard to watch that 2011 World Series DVD now, knowing that that was it for him, except for the decent starts he had at the end of the season last year, and the 1 last W he picked up in the postseason.
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr28 View Post
    I don't know if he has been shut down for good now or not. Maybe one of you guys have better intel on his situation now. I saw on his player card in my ESPN fantasy league a couple weeks ago that he had some issue with his back I think, maybe his troublesome shoulder, don't quite remember now, and they said he was being scratched on that possible rehab assignment. No news since then, but I haven't been looking in other areas either. Just wondering what you guys have heard about him?

    I wasn't expecting the Carp of old, but I would like to see him have one last decent outing in a Cardinals uniform before he hangs 'em up. Hard to watch that 2011 World Series DVD now, knowing that that was it for him, except for the decent starts he had at the end of the season last year, and the 1 last W he picked up in the postseason.
    Mo said back issue isn't a big deal and Carp is due to restart rehab soon. Of course medical spin-doctoring is a po-sports specialty.
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  15. #15
    carp had a very bad outing in AAA but his FB was said to be clocked in the mid 90s. I think that is a good sign, if he stays healthy he could help the cards at the end of the season and especially in the POs.

    not sure whether it will be as a starter or in the pen though. would be cool to have him as the 4th guy in the PS but only if he is near 100%.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    carp had a very bad outing in AAA but his FB was said to be clocked in the mid 90s. I think that is a good sign, if he stays healthy he could help the cards at the end of the season and especially in the POs.

    not sure whether it will be as a starter or in the pen though. would be cool to have him as the 4th guy in the PS but only if he is near 100%.
    Yeah he was tagged yesterday allowing 11 base runners in just 3-1/3 along with 74 pitches. But it's likely he's simply being stretched out where results don't really matter. But he'd have to show he can go a bit deeper during his next outing if he's considered to be brought up fairly quick.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

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    Cards have one starter right now who I have any confidence in each time out. Carp or not, somebody needs to step up if we want to avoid the first round knockout game.
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    Ugh. I haven't been tracking things lately. I wish he would retire if he can't make it back.
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

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    Have been seeing a lot of Chris Carpenter standing around and being a cheerleader in the Cardinals dugout the past couple weeks. Looks like he is resuming his role in the clubhouse as a leader, and is finished with his role as pitcher. That's OK. I'm glad he is there with his teammates, and maybe he can help out behind the scenes. It was pretty clear his career as a starter was probably over anyway.
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

  20. #20
    Well it's sad that he didn't pitch this year as I have him as the 3rd best Cardinal pitcher of all time behind Dean and Gibson who are 1 and 2 in any order really. Don't think it would be smart for the Cardinals to resign him in anyway as a player as it would just be a bad investment from a health stand point because we have so many young arms right now who are capable of filling his role.

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    Here is a neat video I found of Chris Carpenter pitching throughout the 2011 season. Good stuff. I could do without the music, and I wish the person that put it together could have added more of his World Series pitching - maybe ended it with Carp and Co. hoisting the trophy... Oh well, still neat. I love Chris Carpenter, a true bulldog ace of this team, and even if he isn't pitching (which has been the case FAR too often in his time here)! I'd love to see #29 go up on the wall with 17 and 45, one of the greatest pitchers, especially in the postseason, in Cardinal history!

    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

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    Chris Carpenter pitching live BP (2011 or so)

    This is pretty neat, the camera angle is right in the netting around home. Carp pitches to Pujols, Rasmus and Holliday before it cuts out. Damn those pitches get there fast! You can hear the catcher (Laird maybe?) calling balls and strikes to the hitters. Good stuff!

    EDIT: Never mind, that is Jason LaRue behind the plate - so this is obviously before he was viciously assaulted by that coward Cueto in 2010.

    Last edited by Herr28; 10-05-2013 at 08:44 AM.
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

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    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

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    Cardinals Ace and Postseason Hero - Chris Carpenter #29

    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

  25. #25
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    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "The last guy who ran as badly as Bill Buckner was Long John Silver." Mark Heisler, sportswriter

    "I'm getting by on three pitches now - a curve, a change-up, and whatever you want to call that thing that used to be a fastball." Frank Tanana

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