View Poll Results: Which player would you start your team with?

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  • Tony Perez

    3 20.00%
  • Fred McGriff

    12 80.00%
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Tony Perez vs Fred McGriff

  1. #1
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    Tony Perez vs Fred McGriff

    I'm going to run a series of polls with the winner advancing each time to face another opponent. Will leave each poll up for a week. I'll try to provide as much statistical information as possible. Hopefully we can get some lively insightful debates going and bring to light some overlooked players from yesteryear.
    If you could pick between these two players to start your franchise with which would you pick? Please consider all relavent information. Their careers as a whole, peak performance, hitting, fielding, baserunning, positional value, league quality, etc.

    Tony Perez

    2777 games
    10861 plate appearances
    9778 at-bats
    1272 runs
    2732 hits
    505 doubles
    79 triples
    379 home runs
    1652 RBI
    49 stolen bases
    33 caught stealing
    925 walks
    1867 strikeouts
    .279 AVG
    .341 OBP
    .463 SLG
    .804 OPS
    122 OPS+
    4532 total bases
    1524 runs created
    5.5 RC/G
    96 AIR
    .619 OW%
    .751 Total Average
    .280 Secondary Average
    347.2 Win Shares
    149.8 WSAB
    50.1 rWAR
    67.8 fWAR
    50.4 sWAR

    Fred McGriff

    2460 games
    10174 plate appearances
    8757 at-bats
    1349 runs
    2490 hits
    441 doubles
    24 triples
    493 home runs
    1550 RBI
    72 stolen bases
    38 caught stealing
    1305 walks
    1882 strikeouts
    .284 AVG
    .377 OBP
    .509 SLG
    .886 OPS
    134 OPS+
    4458 total bases
    1704 runs created
    6.9 RC/G
    105 AIR
    .662 OW%
    .894 Total Average
    .378 Secondary Average
    348.7 Win Shares
    176.3 WSAB
    48.2 rWAR
    61.0 fWAR
    48.1 sWAR

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    Quote
    "A ballplayer has to just go out and be mean. You can't play half-heartedly. If you do, there's someone right over your shoulder that'll take your job away. If you don't do your job, what they're paying you for, why should they pay you? You just can't put in eight hours, that's what a lot of people don't realize about athletes. Very few people realize the pressure." Dave Kingman

  2. #2
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    I know I've asked you before but what are the three WAR totals?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    I know I've asked you before but what are the three WAR totals?
    rWAR = baseball reference
    fWAR = fan graphs
    sWAR = seamheads
    Quote
    "A ballplayer has to just go out and be mean. You can't play half-heartedly. If you do, there's someone right over your shoulder that'll take your job away. If you don't do your job, what they're paying you for, why should they pay you? You just can't put in eight hours, that's what a lot of people don't realize about athletes. Very few people realize the pressure." Dave Kingman

  4. #4
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    I would take Perez. Playing thirdbase and leadership takes it.

    I think this is the first time where I picked against the majority.
    Last edited by chicagowhitesox1173; 02-11-2013 at 03:56 PM.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
    I would take Perez. Playing thirdbase and leadership takes it.

    I think this is the first time where I picked against the majority.
    Not a Perez fan, but I agree with ya.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

  6. #6
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    Went with Fred, ask me another time it's just as likely Perez.

  7. #7
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    Close to the same, in my mind. I gave mcGriff a tiny edge to to vastly superior postseason numbers, but a case could be made for either. Both fall into my "I probably wouldn't put them into the HOF if I had a vote, but certainly wouldn't shed any tears or waste any ink complaining if they did" group.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

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    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew C. View Post
    Close to the same, in my mind. I gave mcGriff a tiny edge to to vastly superior postseason numbers, but a case could be made for either. Both fall into my "I probably wouldn't put them into the HOF if I had a vote, but certainly wouldn't shed any tears or waste any ink complaining if they did" group.
    Your IPWPTITHoFIIHAVBCWSATOWAICITD group. They'd fall into mine too.
    "I go all out, and I'm going to bring that to the table everyday. In good times and in bad times." - Eric Byrnes
    "As long as I have fun playing, the stats will take care of themselves." - Ken Griffey Jr.
    "I saw Nolan Ryan throw 212 pitches in 11 innings one day. It messed him up so bad, he had to retire 16 years later at 46." - Reggie Jackson
    "The value of a stat is directly proportional to how good it makes Steve Garvey look." - Nerdlinger

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky5 View Post
    Your IPWPTITHoFIIHAVBCWSATOWAICITD group. They'd fall into mine too.
    I have actually designated 36 players into that group.

    That is opposed to 41 players who are in my "I probably would put them into the HOF if I had a vote, but certainly wouldn't shed any tears or waste any ink complaining if they weren't (better grammar, I guess)" group.
    Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 02-11-2013 at 06:05 PM.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew C. View Post
    I have actually designated 36 players into that group.

    That is opposed to 41 players who are in my "I probably would put them into the HOF if I had a vote, but certainly wouldn't shed any tears or waste any ink complaining if they weren't (better grammar, I guess)" group.
    I wasn't mocking your grammar. I was just amused by the extensive name of the group so I made the equally extensive abbreviation. Not that I could think of a better one, lol. Just clowning around.

    I really do agree with ya on the players. Although I do support McGriff a lot. He'd fall in between my IPWPTITHoFIIHAVBCWSATOWAICITD group and my IPWPTITHoFIIHAVBCWSATOWAICITW group.
    "I go all out, and I'm going to bring that to the table everyday. In good times and in bad times." - Eric Byrnes
    "As long as I have fun playing, the stats will take care of themselves." - Ken Griffey Jr.
    "I saw Nolan Ryan throw 212 pitches in 11 innings one day. It messed him up so bad, he had to retire 16 years later at 46." - Reggie Jackson
    "The value of a stat is directly proportional to how good it makes Steve Garvey look." - Nerdlinger

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky5 View Post
    I wasn't mocking your grammar. I was just amused by the extensive name of the group so I made the equally extensive abbreviation. Not that I could think of a better one, lol. Just clowning around.

    I really do agree with ya on the players. Although I do support McGriff a lot. He'd fall in between my IPWPTITHoFIIHAVBCWSATOWAICITD group and my IPWPTITHoFIIHAVBCWSATOWAICITW group.
    Actually, I was talking about my own grammar - I should have used "were" instead of "did" in the first post and corrected it in the second. I like the acronym, personally.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye View Post
    rWAR = baseball reference
    fWAR = fan graphs
    sWAR = seamheads
    thanks.
    I went with McGriff. Perez was very good and part of the Big Red Machine, but not really among the very best in his league other than probably 68, 69 (or 69,70 I didn't back check). McGriff was closer to the top of the league from @88-93.

  13. #13
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    McGriff. Only because the aforementioned 88'-94' period. We forget this now, but McGriff was baseball's home run leader in the five year period before steroids took off:

    1. Fred Mcriff: 171
    2. Mark McGwire: 169
    3. Jose Canseco: 156
    4. Joe Carter: 153
    5. Ryne Sandberg: 142
    6. Cecil Fielder: 139
    7. Darryl Strawberry: 138
    8. Kevin Mitchell: 137
    9. Barry Bonds: 135
    10. Howard Johnson: 128
    "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
    George Brett

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