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Thread: Progressing Toward Better Stats Thread

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Progressing Toward Better Stats Thread

    Code:
                                                                      ROAD RELATIVE OPS+
                                                                                                                                                        (rrOPS+)            actual OPS+ in ( )
                               HOME/ROAD   LG SPECIFIC  (ROAD SA ÷ LG ROAD SA)            ...HOME/ROAD    LG SPECIFIC  .(ROAD OBP ÷ LG ROAD OBP)        ..(HOME PARK AS ROAD)         (rrOPS++)
                     .RAW SA     SA   SA     .ROAD SA         ROAD REL SA       RAW OBP    OBP  OBP      ROAD OBP         ROAD REL OBP      LG OPS+  (PITCHERS REMOVED)  (WEIGHTED FOR PLAYING TIME)
    Code:
    
    Ruth              .690     .698 /.682     .3695             1.845           .474     .483 /.466       .3335              1.397          94.00         209.5               216.3 (206)
    
    TWilliams         .634     .652 /.615     .3758             1.636           .482     .496 /.467       .3305              1.413          93.57         191.2               189.2 (190)
    
    Gehrig            .632     .620 /.644     .3929             1.639           .447     .436 /.458       .3429              1.335          93.76         183.5               180.6 (179)
    
    BaBonds           .607     .618 /.597     .3960             1.507           .444     .449 /.440       .3219              1.366          93.95         177.4               197.5 (182)
    
    Hornsby	          .577     .589 /.565     .3734             1.513           .434     .437 /.431       .3280              1.314          93.73         172.1               168.3 (175)
    
    Mantle	          .557     .569 /.545     .3716             1.466           .420     .428 /.413       .3167              1.304          93.38         166.9               166.2 (172)
    
    Cobb('14-'28)     .512     .503 /.516     .3602             1.432           .441     .437 /.445       .3327              1.337          94.06         166.7               154.9 (168)
    
    JJackson('14-'20) .491     .484 /.497     .3282             1.514           .405     .400 /.410       .3194              1.283          94.00         166.1               124.1 (158)
    
    JDiMaggio         .579     .546 /.610     .3817             1.598           .398     .391 /.405       .3392              1.193          93.46         164.2               149.2 (155)
    
    Pujols            .588     .587 /.590     .4028             1.464           .403     .412 /.395       .3212              1.229          95.42         161.6               156.9 (162)
    
    McGwire           .588     .591 /.586     .4055             1.445           .394     .402 /.386       .3286              1.174          98.37         160.1               146.0 (163)
    
    MRamirez          .585     .591 /.580     .4176             1.388           .411     .413 /.409       .3308              1.236          99.26         159.3               157.9 (154)
    
    Musial            .559     .582 /.537     .3755             1.430           .417     .427 /.407       .3199              1.272          93.13         158.6               174.5 (159)
    
    Foxx              .609     .663 /.561     .3870             1.449           .429     .453 /.405       .3384              1.196          93.60         156.1               154.2 (163)
    
    Mays	          .557     .567 /.549     .3755             1.462           .384     .387 /.382       .3137              1.217          92.90         155.9               169.8 (156)
    
    Aaron	          .555     .557 /.552     .3738             1.476           .374     .379 /.369       .3136              1.176          93.56         154.5               176.1 (155)
    
    DAllen            .534     .548 /.519     .3633             1.428           .378     .384 /.372       .3101              1.199          94.40         154.1               138.8 (156)
    
    CKeller           .518     .525 /.510     .3672             1.388           .410     .406 /.414       .3317              1.248          93.69         152.9               124.3 (152)
    
    MCabrera          .564     .579 /.550     .4050             1.358           .396     .406 /.388       .3217              1.206          97.50         152.8               141.2 (154)
    
    Mize	          .562     .598 /.527     .3685             1.430           .397     .406 /.389       .3275              1.187          93.46         152.8               139.6 (158)
    
    Ott	          .533     .558 /.510     .3712             1.373           .415     .422 /.408       .3258              1.252          93.45         152.6               159.6 (155)
    
    FThomas           .555     .599 /.511     .4154             1.230           .419     .424 /.414       .3313              1.249          99.89         149.7               150.0 (156)
    
    FRobinson         .537     .573 /.504     .3702             1.361           .389     .403 /.376       .3119              1.205          94.19         149.1               157.6 (154)
    
    Heilmann          .520     .527 /.515     .3706             1.389           .410     .417 /.402       .3344              1.202          93.94         149.0               143.9 (148)
    
    Piazza	          .545     .515 /.572     .4055             1.410           .377     .364 /.388       .3257              1.191          94.50         148.9               138.0 (142) - C
    
    EMartinez         .515     .517 /.514     .4117             1.248           .418     .423 /.412       .3303              1.247          99.88         148.7               142.2 (147)
    
    EMathews          .509     .488 /.529     .3788             1.396           .376     .370 /.382       .3130              1.220          92.88         148.2               148.6 (143)
    
    Thome             .554     .579 /.529     .4122             1.283           .402     .406 /.398       .3290              1.209          98.90         147.4               148.7 (147)
    
    Schmidt	          .527     .540 /.515     .3661             1.406           .380     .393 /.368       .3145              1.170          93.61         147.3               147.5 (147)
    
    Speaker('14-'28)  .504     .545 /.464     .3602             1.288           .434     .455 /.414       .3327              1.244          94.06         146.5               140.7 (154)
    
    McCovey           .515     .527 /.504     .3683             1.368           .374     .377 /.372       .3123              1.191          93.27         145.8               144.3 (147)
    
    Bagwell           .540     .560 /.521     .4013             1.298           .408     .417 /.398       .3243              1.227          94.13         144.8               142.2 (149)
    
    BTerry            .507     .487 /.525     .3855             1.361           .393     .382 /.403       .3308              1.218          93.57         144.7               131.7 (136)
    
    Greenberg         .605     .681 /.529     .3867             1.367           .412     .440 /.382       .3379              1.130          93.46         144.4               127.0 (158)
    
    Killebrew         .509     .519 /.498     .3683             1.352           .376     .379 /.372       .3140              1.184          94.13         144.1               143.3 (143)
    
    Stargell          .529     .543 /.515     .3647             1.412           .360     .371 /.350       .3118              1.122          93.28         144.0               139.7 (147)
    
    BHerman           .532     .532 /.532     .3825             1.390           .383     .384 /.382       .3306              1.155          93.46         143.4               127.0 (141)
    
    ABelle	          .564     .580 /.549     .4103             1.338           .369     .375 /.364       .3320              1.096          99.91         143.4               128.9 (144)
    
    RJackson          .490     .481 /.499     .3751             1.330           .356     .349 /.362       .3165              1.143          98.00         142.9               148.9 (139)
    
    McGriff           .509     .508 /.510     .4018             1.269           .377     .377 /.376       .3080              1.220          97.00         141.8               142.5 (134)
    
    ARodriguez        .550     .564 /.536     .4169             1.285           .380     .385 /.375       .3280              1.143          99.81         141.8               151.0 (140)   
    
    Kiner	          .548     .593 /.503     .3790             1.329           .398     .414 /.381       .3270              1.165          93.10         141.5               125.9 (149)
    
    VGuerrero         .553     .568 /.536     .4110             1.304           .379     .381 /.376       .3269              1.150          97.12         140.9               137.0 (140)
    
    HWilson           .545     .572 /.517     .3867             1.336           .395     .408 /.382       .3316              1.151          93.58         140.3               122.3 (144)
    
    Snider            .540     .569 /.511     .3838             1.331           .380     .390 /.369       .3200              1.153          92.88         138.3               131.5 (140)
    
    Sheffield         .514     .527 /.501     .4025             1.244           .393     .402 /.384       .3255              1.179          96.54         137.9               141.4 (140)
    
    ECollins('14-'30) .425     .418 /.430     .3652             1.177           .429     .426 /.431       .3335              1.292          94.11         137.6               131.6 (136)
    
    Cravath('14-'20)  .477     .568 /.394     .3235             1.217           .380     .400 /.361       .3041              1.187          94.14         137.5               111.7 (154)
    
    FHoward           .499     .507 /.491     .3668             1.338           .474     .361 /.344       .3093              1.112          93.25         136.9               127.1 (142)
    
    Mauer             .459     .444 /.469     .4080             1.149           .401     .398 /.400       .3230              1.238          99.90         136.8               121.2 (133) - C
    
    CJones            .529     .558 /.501     .4045             1.238           .401     .413 /.389       .3242              1.199          94.21         136.7               138.9 (141)
    
    Vaughan           .453     .460 /.448     .3672             1.220           .406     .410 /.402       .3222              1.247          93.28         136.6               128.2 (136)
    
    Cash              .488     .515 /.463     .3657             1.266           .374     .383 /.366       .3101              1.180          94.00         136.6               128.9 (139)
    
    KMitchell         .520     .528 /.511     .3874             1.319           .360     .370 /.350       .3202              1.093          95.38         136.4               117.0 (142)
    
    Tenace            .429     .415 /.441     .3641             1.211           .388     .392 /.384       .3147              1.220          95.20         136.1               119.9 (136) - C
    
    BGiles            .502     .500 /.505     .4161             1.213           .400     .404 /.396       .3302              1.199          95.80         135.4               127.7 (136)
    
    Berger            .522     .535 /.509     .3780             1.346           .359     .362 /.357       .3257              1.096          93.27         135.3               119.9 (138)
    
    Colavito          .488     .487 /.489     .3714             1.316           .359     .361 /.358       .3130              1.143          93.28         135.0               126.4 (132)
    
    JGonzalez         .561     .565 /.557     .4134             1.347           .343     .354 /.333       .3308              1.006          99.88         134.3               124.5 (132)
    
    JRobinson         .474     .491 /.456     .3842             1.186           .409     .410 /.408       .3249              1.255          93.10         133.5               119.4 (132)
    
    BJohnson          .506     .540 /.475     .3771             1.259           .393     .402 /.385       .3346              1.150          93.46         133.4               126.8 (139)
    
    LWalker           .565     .637 /.495     .3975             1.245           .400     .431 /.370       .3228              1.146          94.11         133.4               126.8 (141)
    
    Goslin	          .500     .484 /.514     .3920             1.311           .387     .388 /.386       .3426              1.126          93.88         133.1               132.5 (128)
    
    Kaline            .480     .501 /.458     .3687             1.242           .376     .383 /.369       .3144              1.173          93.86         133.1               138.3 (134)
    
    Palmeiro          .515     .527 /.502     .4074             1.232           .371     .375 /.366       .3281              1.115          98.85         132.8               139.5 (132)
    
    Winfield          .475     .463 /.485     .3841             1.262           .353     .349 /.356       .3213              1.107          97.72         132.7               135.9 (130)
    
    Carew             .429     .434 /.425     .3716             1.143           .393     .401 /.385       .3156              1.219          97.78         132.5               134.2 (131)
    
    Brett             .487     .506 /.469     .3853             1.217           .369     .383 /.356       .3218              1.106          100.0         132.3               137.5 (135)
    
    Canseco           .515     .511 /.518     .4083             1.268           .353     .358 /.348       .3295              1.056          99.94         132.2               126.1 (132)
    
    Edmonds           .527     .536 /.518     .4153             1.247           .376     .381 /.371       .3302              1.123          96.52         132.1               125.6 (132)
    
    ASimmons          .535     .560 /.511     .3855             1.325           .380     .397 /.364       .3381              1.076          93.70         131.6               130.0 (133)
    
    PWaner            .473     .505 /.442     .3701             1.194           .404     .417 /.391       .3250              1.203          93.50         131.4               133.8 (134)
    
    BNicholson        .465     .458 /.473     .3686             1.283           .365     .366 /.365       .3249              1.123          93.31         131.3               120.0 (132)
    
    Sisler            .468     .505 /.432     .3420             1.263           .379     .397 /.361       .3126              1.154          94.03         131.1               128.0 (125)
    
    BoBonds           .471     .478 /.464     .3667             1.265           .353     .356 /.351       .3157              1.111          95.71         130.9               124.9 (129)
    
    Cochrane          .478     .485 /.472     .3930             1.201           .419     .429 /.410       .3416              1.200          93.76         130.7               119.0 (129) - C
    
    Kruk              .446     .456 /.436     .3801             1.147           .397     .405 /.389       .3166              1.228          94.30         130.7               114.1 (134)
    
    Strawberry        .505     .529 /.484     .3899             1.241           .357     .361 /.353       .3214              1.098          95.47         130.3               119.1 (138)
    
    KWilliams         .531     .601 /.459     .3702             1.239           .394     .414 /.374       .3342              1.119          94.00         130.2               116.9 (138)
    
    Griffey Jr        .538     .573 /.505     .4097             1.232           .370     .385 /.355       .3288              1.079          97.70         130.0               133.9 (136)
    
    KHernandez        .436     .440 /.433     .3672             1.179           .384     .388 /.381       .3147              1.210          94.05         129.9               125.5 (128)
    
    RHenderson        .419     .404 /.432     .4007             1.078           .401     .398 /.404       .3258              1.240          98.88         129.4               139.2 (127)
    
    Gwynn             .459     .466 /.451     .3861             1.168           .388     .393 /.384       .3192              1.203          93.85         129.4               130.0 (132)
    
    EMurray           .476     .470 /.482     .3923             1.228           .359     .364 /.356       .3267              1.089          98.42         129.4               137.7 (129)
    
    BiWilliams        .492     .525 /.459     .3683             1.246           .361     .374 /.349       .3118              1.119          93.66         129.1               130.6 (133)
    
    Medwick           .505     .541 /.470     .3645             1.289           .362     .378 /.347       .3222              1.076          93.41         129.1               123.6 (134)
    
    Gehringer         .480     .482 /.479     .3908             1.225           .404     .410 /.399       .3410              1.170          93.63         128.9               129.6 (124)
    
    Morgan            .427     .434 /.420     .3650             1.150           .392     .405 /.380       .3120              1.217          93.59         128.9               132.7 (132)
    
    Helton            .539     .607 /.469     .4048             1.158           .414     .441 /.386       .3236              1.192          94.23         128.6               127.0 (133)
    
    MVaughn           .523     .550 /.496     .4145             1.196           .383     .402 /.363       .3325              1.091          99.00         128.5               118.2 (132)
    
    Veach('14-'25)    .449     .462 /.437     .3543             1.233           .371     .377 /.368       .3305              1.113          94.16         127.2               118.8 (129)
    
    JGordon           .466     .447 /.482     .3738             1.289           .357     .345 /.367       .3354              1.094          93.45         126.9               117.5 (120)
    
    DwEvans	          .470     .505 /.437     .3821             1.143           .370     .379 /.361       .3200              1.128          99.65         126.7               128.2 (127)
    
    Dickey            .486     .505 /.468     .3858             1.213           .382     .380 /.384       .3369              1.139          93.52         126.5               118.7 (127) - C
    
    Clemente          .475     .488 /.463     .3746             1.235           .359     .372 /.347       .3115              1.113          92.88         126.4               126.9 (130)
    
    Sosa              .534     .555 /.513     .4016             1.277           .344     .350 /.337       .3251              1.036          95.77         126.2               125.9 (128)
    
    Bench             .476     .486 /.466     .3630             1.283           .342     .348 /.335       .3135              1.068          93.47         126.1               122.6 (126) - C
    
    Staub             .431     .430 /.431     .3635             1.185           .362     .360 /.365       .3101              1.177          93.19         126.1               129.3 (124)
    
    Klein             .543     .618 /.466     .3729             1.249           .379     .410 /.346       .3255              1.062          93.35         125.9               118.5 (137)
    
    KGibson           .463     .462 /.464     .3939             1.177           .352     .351 /.353       .3241              1.089          100.0         125.7               117.1 (123)
    
    Grich	          .424     .421 /.426     .3777             1.127           .371     .375 /.366       .3187              1.148          98.76         125.6               121.0 (125)
    
    BAbreu            .475     .494 /.456     .4062             1.122           .395     .412 /.379       .3242              1.169          96.11         125.0               125.2 (128)
    
    Yastrzemski       .462     .503 /.422     .3706             1.138           .379     .402 /.357       .3136              1.138          96.34         124.6               134.4 (130)
    
    Averill           .534     .588 /.478     .3930             1.216           .395     .421 /.368       .3396              1.083          93.61         124.3               117.5 (133)
    
    Boudreau          .415     .387 /.439     .3672             1.195           .380     .380 /.381       .3318              1.148          93.66         124.2               116.9 (120)
    
    Hartnett          .489     .512 /.466     .3814             1.221           .370     .380 /.360       .3296              1.092          93.50         123.5               117.1 (126) - C
    
    JRice	          .502     .546 /.459     .3856             1.190           .352     .374 /.330       .3211              1.027          100.0         123.2               121.0 (128)
    
    Lazzeri           .467     .468 /.465     .3889             1.195           .380     .380 /.381       .3383              1.126          93.64         122.9               116.7 (121)
    
    Rolen             .490     .497 /.484     .4058             1.192           .364     .372 /.357       .3243              1.100          94.70         122.2               118.9 (122)
    
    Hodges            .487     .510 /.465     .3820             1.217           .359     .364 /.354       .3206              1.104          93.00         122.1               117.9 (120)
    
    FLynn             .484     .533 /.437     .3853             1.134           .360     .378 /.343       .3209              1.068          99.64         122.0               117.4 (129)
    
    Slaughter         .453     .477 /.429     .3727             1.151           .381     .395 /.368       .3236              1.137          93.21         121.0               119.0 (124)
    
    Dawson            .482     .481 /.483     .3743             1.290           .323     .330 /.316       .3162              .9993          94.33         120.9               122.5 (119)
    
    Berra             .482     .505 /.461     .3751             1.229           .348     .354 /.341       .3258              1.046          93.57         120.7               117.3 (125) - C
    
    Garciaparra       .521     .543 /.497     .4213             1.179           .361     .378 /.345       .3314              1.041          98.00         120.6               112.5 (124)
    
    Beltre            .479     .465 /.492     .4090             1.202           .337     .333 /.341       .3247              1.050          97.58         120.5               120.5 (116)
    
    HJohnson          .446     .432 /.459     .3805             1.206           .340     .340 /.339       .3163              1.071          95.07         120.5               111.7 (118)
    
    Raines	          .425     .432 /.419     .3906             1.072           .385     .394 /.378       .3224              1.172          96.21         120.4               121.1 (123)
    
    Molitor           .448     .462 /.434     .3976             1.091           .369     .378 /.360       .3256              1.105          100.0         120.2               124.5 (122)
    
    Boggs	          .443     .491 /.395     .4032             .9796           .415     .443 /.387       .3273              1.182          99.94         119.7               121.1 (131)
    
    DaEvans	          .431     .442 /.420     .3727             1.126           .361     .365 /.357       .3167              1.127          95.09         119.0               120.4 (119)
    
    DParker           .471     .497 /.446     .3709             1.202           .339     .350 /.329       .3170              1.037          95.00         118.5               118.8 (121)
    
    Fisk              .457     .469 /.444     .3808             1.165           .341     .350 /.331       .3199              1.034          99.12         118.3               118.0 (117) - C
    
    CFielder          .482     .501 /.463     .4053             1.142           .345     .351 /.340       .3284              1.035          100.0         118.0               110.6 (119)
    
    Cronin            .468     .502 /.436     .3804             1.146           .390     .409 /.371       .3343              1.109          93.70         117.8               115.7 (119)
    
    KBoyer            .462     .480 /.443     .3756             1.179           .348     .357 /.340       .3107              1.094          92.86         117.6               114.5 (116)
    
    Rose	          .409     .427 /.393     .3644             1.078           .375     .384 /.366       .3118              1.173          93.33         117.0               127.0 (118)
    
    AnJones           .486     .475 /.496     .4084             1.214           .337     .340 /.335       .3250              1.030          95.58         116.9               114.6 (111)
    
    Ripken Jr         .447     .435 /.459     .4040             1.136           .340     .336 /.344       .3276              1.050          99.95         116.8               121.6 (112)
    
    Kingman           .478     .478 /.478     .3704             1.290           .302     .304 /.299       .3164              .9450          95.00         116.7               112.4 (115)
    
    DMurphy           .469     .499 /.440     .3687             1.193           .346     .368 /.324       .3138              1.032          93.72         116.3               112.9 (121)
    
    Jeter             .440     .448 /.431     .4161             1.035           .377     .384 /.370       .3283              1.127          99.85         115.7               119.7 (115)
    
    Santo             .464     .522 /.406     .3680             1.103           .362     .383 /.342       .3101              1.102          93.33         115.5               114.5 (125)
    
    Galarraga         .499     .535 /.464     .3912             1.186           .347     .368 /.327       .3200              1.021          94.36         115.1               113.4 (119)
    
    Yount             .430     .435 /.425     .3858             1.101           .342     .347 /.338       .3217              1.050          100.0         115.0               118.3 (115)
    
    Banks             .500     .537 /.462     .3781             1.221           .330     .348 /.311       .3133              .9926          92.89         115.0               115.5 (122)
    
    Campanella        .500     .559 /.446     .3853             1.157           .360     .383 /.339       .3235              1.047          93.10         114.7               107.0 (123) - C
    
    RAlomar           .443     .454 /.432     .4072             1.060           .371     .379 /.363       .3282              1.106          98.11         114.7               115.2 (116)
    
    MWilliams         .489     .486 /.491     .3935             1.247           .317     .318 /.315       .3213              .9803          94.00         114.7               111.1 (113)
    
    EChavez           .475     .489 /.463     .4123             1.122           .342     .348 /.337       .3259              1.034          99.17         114.7               109.1 (115)
    
    Larkin            .444     .456 /.433     .3934             1.100           .371     .383 /.358       .3212              1.114          93.94         114.5               113.1 (116)
    
    Whitaker          .426     .448 /.405     .3927             1.031           .363     .370 /.357       .3237              1.102          100.0         114.2               114.1 (117)
    
    Puckett           .477     .521 /.430     .3958             1.086           .360     .388 /.331       .3248              1.019          100.0         113.8               110.8 (124)
    
    TWalker('14-'23)  .348     .460 /.416     .3459             1.202           .342     .356 /.323       .3264              .9895          94.10         113.8               106.9 (119)
    
    JLopez            .491     .503 /.480     .4073             1.178           .337     .342 /.333       .3262              1.020          95.33         113.6               107.8 (112) - C
    
    Appling           .398     .405 /.392     .3797             1.032           .399     .403 /.397       .3362              1.180          93.65         113.3               113.6 (113)
    
    Tettleton         .449     .487 /.411     .4009             1.025           .369     .385 /.352       .3269              1.076          100.0         113.0               107.4 (122) - C
    
    GCarter           .439     .447 /.430     .3663             1.173           .335     .348 /.322       .3141              1.025          93.73         112.9               111.6 (115) - C
    
    EHoward           .427     .406 /.446     .3714             1.200           .322     .327 /.318       .3128              1.016          93.28         112.0               107.0 (108) - C
    
    Kuhel             .406     .382 /.429     .3777             1.135           .359     .356 /.361       .3335              1.082          93.61         111.4               110.3 (104)
    
    SRice	          .426     .442 /.412     .3719             1.107           .374     .392 /.357       .3352              1.065          94.10         110.6               110.8 (112)
    
    Trammell          .415     .423 /.408     .3952             1.032           .352     .362 /.341       .3248              1.049          100.0         108.5               107.9 (110)
    
    Sandberg          .452     .491 /.412     .3751             1.098           .344     .361 /.326       .3153              1.033          93.75         108.0               107.4 (115)
    
    Frisch            .432     .447 /.417     .3884             1.073           .369     .373 /.365       .3412              1.069          93.94         107.9               107.9 (110)
    
    Posada            .474     .504 /.447     .4198             1.064           .335     .348 /.322       .3310              .9728          99.88         107.8               105.5 (121) - C
    
    Traynor           .435     .457 /.415     .3834             1.082           .362     .377 /.349       .3304              1.056          93.64         106.6               105.4 (107)
    
    IRodriguez        .464     .482 /.447     .4138             1.080           .334     .345 /.322       .3299              .9760          99.23         105.0               105.1 (106) - C
    
    JCarter           .464     .478 /.451     .3996             1.128           .306     .310 /.302       .3263              .9255          99.37         104.7               104.3 (105)
    
    GNettles          .420     .455 /.388     .3696             1.049           .329     .345 /.315       .3146              1.001          96.59         103.5               103.5 (110)
    
    BRobinson         .401     .410 /.392     .3688             1.062           .322     .329 /.316       .3139              1.006          94.69         101.8               102.1 (104)
    
    Bichette          .499     .573 /.424     .3992             1.062           .336     .365 /.306       .3256              .9398          96.85          99.5                68.2 (107)
    
    Gaetti            .434     .448 /.420     .3979             1.055           .308     .316 /.300       .3251              .9227          98.85          96.7                96.5  (97)
    
    TPendleton        .391     .414 /.369     .3826             .9644           .316     .322 /.309       .3176              .9729          94.20          89.1                86.5  (92)
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    MAlou             .516     .556 /.479     .4161             1.035           .369     .384 /.356       .3283              1.127          99.85         115.7               119.7 (128)
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    *Players below under construction*
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Caminiti      .447     .449	.444	  .4528
    Tettleton
    Trammel
    
    Gant
    Mitchell
    Raines
    Dykstra
    Van Slyke
    Bonilla
    HJohnson
    Powell
    EDavis
    Horner
    ESmith
    Pipp
    Ward
    Kelly
    CWilliams
    Felsch
    Hooper
    Meusel
    
    
    Trosky
    
    
    York  
    Pafko
    Dropo
    Sauer
    Ennis
    Rosen
    Colbert
    
    Berkman
    Horner
    DBaker
    JMayberry
    GThomas
    JLemon  
    Tperez
    Conigliaro
    Armas
    Oglivie
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......rrOPS+
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......STEP 1...(ROAD REL SA + ROAD REL OBP) - 1) * ( LEAGUE OPS+ / 100) * 100
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......STEP 2...(ROAD REL OPS+ * 3) + (RAW OPS+) / 4 (normalized to eight team league)

    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......rrOPS++ = (HOME AS ROAD - 100) * (PA / 10,000) + 100




    Code:
                                             ROAD RELATIVE ERA+
    
                                                                                                       
    Relievers in Black                                                                          PARK ADJ ERA+     WEIGHTED BY 3600 IP                                       
    *Denotes Lefty                    ..HOME/ROAD      LG SPECIFIC  (LG ROAD ERA ÷ ROAD ERA)     raw ERA+ in ( )         OVERALL                      
                     ..RAW ERA       ERA  .ERA    .  ROAD ERA       ROAD REL ERA+           HOME AS ROAD       FULLY ADJ ERA+
    Code:
    MRivera             2.21        2.46/1.94         4.671            240.7                231.7 (205)           146.9
    
    BWagner*            2.31        2.57/2.01         4.532            225.4                215.8 (187)           129.0
    
    Grove*              3.06        3.08/3.03         4.705            155.2                153.4 (148)           158.4
    
    PMartinez           2.93        2.76/3.08         4.545            147.5                149.1 (154)           138.5
    
    Clemens             3.12        3.11/3.14         4.566            145.4                144.8 (143)           161.1
    
    Sutter              2.83        3.07/2.59         3.818            147.4                144.5 (136)           112.8
    
    LSmith              3.03        3.15/2.89         4.131            142.9                140.1 (132)           114.3
    
    Brecheen*           2.92        2.97/2.83         4.009            141.6                139.4 (133)           120.8
    
    Santana*            3.20        3.04/3.39         4.605            135.8                135.8 (136)           120.1
    
    BGibson             2.91        3.08/2.76         3.801            137.7                135.0 (127)           137.7
    
    Hubbell*            2.98        2.91/3.04         4.143            136.2                134.6 (130)           134.5
    
    Ford*               2.75        2.58/2.94         3.960            134.6                134.2 (133)           130.1
    
    Seaver              2.86        2.90/2.83         3.860            136.3                133.9 (127)           145.0
    
    SCoveleski          2.89        2.83/2.94         3.973            135.1                133.0 (127)           128.2
    
    Koufax*             2.76        2.48/3.04         3.975            130.7                130.7 (131)           119.8
    
    Rijo                3.24        3.36/3.11         4.164            133.8                130.6 (121)           115.9
    
    DiDean              3.02        2.90/3.17         4.135            130.4                130.5 (131)           116.6
    
    Newhouser*          3.06        2.96/3.16         4.124            130.5                130.3 (130)           125.1
    
    RJohnson*           3.29        3.10/3.52         4.523            128.4                130.0 (135)           134.4
    
    Halladay            3.38        3.22/3.56         4.590            128.9                129.4 (131)           122.4
    
    GrMaddux            3.16        2.96/3.36         4.320            128.5                129.3 (132)           140.7
    
    Stieb               3.44        3.60/3.28         4.295            130.9                128.6 (122)           123.0
    
    DVance              3.24        3.24/3.24         4.158            128.3                127.4 (125)           122.5
    
    Smoltz              3.33        3.29/3.37         4.322            128.2                127.4 (125)           126.4
    
    Schilling           3.46        3.43/3.49         4.408            126.3                126.4 (127)           123.9
    
    JPalmer             2.86        2.59/3.13         3.912            124.9                124.9 (125)           127.2
    
    Mussina             3.68        3.59/3.78         4.723            124.9                124.4 (123)           124.1
    
    Marichal            2.89        2.74/3.03         3.773            124.5                124.1 (123)           123.4
    
    Warneke             3.20        3.15/3.26         4.081            125.1                123.5 (119)           118.1
    
    Eckersley           3.50        3.59/3.42         4.265            124.7                122.5 (116)           120.5
    
    Gomez*              3.35        2.90/3.88         4.658            120.0                121.2 (125)           114.7
    
    Oswalt              3.36        3.04/3.69         4.391            118.9                120.9 (127)           113.0
    
    Faber               3.15        2.94/3.36         4.071            121.1                120.5 (119)           123.2
    
    Glavine*            3.54        3.46/3.61         4.336            120.1                119.5 (118)           123.9
    
    Niekro              3.35        3.51/3.20         3.866            120.8                119.3 (115)           128.9
    
    Feller              3.25        2.85/3.70         4.378            118.3                119.2 (122)           120.4
    
    KBrown              3.28        2.74/3.86         4.500            116.5                119.1 (127)           117.2
    
    Spahn*              3.10        2.74/3.49         4.053            116.1                116.8 (119)           124.4
    
    Tiant               3.30        3.23/3.28         3.821            116.4                115.8 (114)           115.3
    
    FJenkins            3.34        3.34/3.33         3.835            115.1                115.0 (115)           118.7
    
    Drysdale            2.95        2.53/3.41         3.839            112.5                114.6 (121)           113.9
    
    Harder              3.80        3.68/3.92         4.450            113.5                113.3 (113)           112.6
    
    Carlton*            3.22        3.05/3.39         3.835            113.1                113.5 (115)           119.5
    
    Gooden              3.51        3.24/3.81         4.238            111.2                111.1 (111)           108.6
    
    Roberts             3.41        3.06/3.79         4.086            107.8                109.1 (113)           111.8
    
    JMorris             3.90        3.90/3.90         4.296            110.1                108.8 (105)           109.3
    
    NRyan               3.19        2.77/3.73         3.907            104.7                106.5 (112)           109.7
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Gossage               3.01      2.79/3.22      3.126     3.853     123.2        126+          37.8
    
    Quisenberry           2.76      2.74/2.78      2.699     3.984     147.6        146+          37.3
    
    
    Hoffman               2.87      2.66/3.13      3.038     4.275     140.7        141+          35.0
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Sain                  3.51      3.25/3.77      3.660     3.844     105.0        107+          11.2
    
    Hershiser             3.48      3.17/3.81      3.924     4.025     102.5        112+          8.48
    
    Wells*                4.13      3.75/4.54      4.407     4.420     100.2        108+          0.76
    
    Rowe                  3.87      3.50/4.33      4.203     4.211     100.1        110+          0.24
    
    DStewart              3.95      3.46/4.49      4.359     4.024     92.31        100+          ????
    
    
    
    
    Hoffman             2.87        2.66/3.13        2.995        4.275         142.7             142.2             112.7 (141)
    
    
    
    Wilhelm               2.52      2.41/2.63      2.553     3.687    144.4 (147)              
    
    
    
    
    WJohnson  ('14-'27)   2.47      2.12/2.87      2.786     3.570    128.1 (137)           93.7
    
    WJohnson                P R O J E C T E D - F U L L - C A R E E R      137.4 (147)          
    
    Alexander ('14-'30)   2.52      2.29/2.80      2.718     3.591    132.1 (138)          113.5
    HOME AS ROAD (PARK ADJ ERA+) = (ROAD REL ERA+ * 3) + RAW ERA+) ÷ 4

    WEIGHTED BY 3600 IP (FULLY ADJ ERA+) = PARK ADJ ERA- 100 * IP / 3600 + 100......example using Grove....153.4 HOME AS ROAD minus 100 = 53.4. His IP is 3940.7 / 3600 = 1.094. So 53.4 x 1.094 = 58.4 + 100 = 158.4

























    DNRA++ -- Meaning defense neutralized RA+, and the extra plus because it actually is seeing how many innings a pitcher pitched against EACH TEAM and each park to get a total adjustment of what the league would have done, and it also counts an adjustment for unearned runs allowed, which the pitcher still would be partly responsible for once his defensive support is neutralized.



    Code:
              (RA9opp - RA9def) * (PPFp / RA9)   1 - (100/DNRA++) * (IP/18)   WAA + (IP/18)       
                       ..DNRA++                .WAA          .NRS WINS
    Code:
    Young               129.80               93.83          502.50
    WJohnson            141.93               97.09          425.67
    Alexander           133.91               73.03          361.37
    Clemens             141.34               79.90          353.05
    Niekro              116.75               43.08          343.30
    Nichols
    Perry
    Spahn
    Maddux
    Ryan
    Seaver
    Keefe
    Blyleven
    Sutton
    RRoberts
    Jenkins
    Grove
    Rjohnson
    Radbourn
    Glavine
    Rixey
    Wynn
    Gibson
    Lyons
    Faber
    Kaat
    Feller
    Tanana
    Grimes
    Hubbell
    Mussina
    Bunning
    Moyer
    DMartinez
    Smoltz
    Hoyt
    Schilling
    Marichal
    Tiant
    Drysdale
    Hough
    KBrown
    Morris
    PMartinez
    MBrown
    Pennock
    Coveleski
    Ford
    Cicotte
    Walsh
    Vance
    Whitehill
    Waddell
    Hershiser
    Cone
    Root
    Uhle
    CMays
    Zachary
    Bender
    White
    Gooden
    Warneke
    JBush
    Gomez
    Walberg
    Koufax
    Sherdel
    Oswalt
    Drabek
    Rowe
    FGarcia
    DizzyD
    Sain
    Rijo
    Nomo
    Earnshaw
    Ruth
    LWilliams
    Darling
    
    
    Blue
    Marquard
    Krogers
    Mcginnity
    DLeonard
    Finley
    Shawkey
    Palmer
    Quinn
    Zito
    Saberhagen
    Key
    Shocker
    KWood
    Lemon
    Caruthers
    Ehmke
    JSchmidt
























    Code:
            
                              ROAD RELATIVE SLUGGING EFFICIENCY                     
                
                   .TB ÷ (AB - H)  ...HOME     .ROAD    LG SPECIFIC  (ROAD SLGeff ÷ LG ROAD SLGeff)
                       SLGeff     SLGeff   -.SLGeff    ROAD SLGeff         ROAD REL SLGeff          LG OPS+         (HOME AS ROAD)
    Code:
    Ruth               1.048     1.068     1.029      .5058               2.034               94.00
    
    Gehrig             .9583     .9236     .9921      .5424               1.829               93.76
    
    TWilliams          .9667     1.020     .9143      .5018               1.822               93.57     
    
    JDiMaggio          .8569     .7983     .9154      .5131               1.784               93.46
    
    Hornsby            .8987     .9193     .8790      .5130               1.713               93.73
    
    Cobb ('14-'28)     .8123     .7821     .8221      .4923               1.669               94.06
    
    Aaron              .7978     .7993     .7964      .4995               1.594               93.56
    
    BaBonds            .8645     .8833     .8471      .5323               1.591               93.95
    
    Musial             .8354     .8770     .7967      .5035               1.582               93.13
    
    Mantle             .7932     .8191     .7690      .4900               1.569               93.38
    
    WMays              .7983     .8120     .7856      .5015               1.566               92.90
    
    Foxx               .9030     1.011     .8091      .5238               1.544               93.60
    
    Piazza             .7876     .7297     .8419      .5468               1.539               94.50 - C
    
    Mize               .8170     .8795     .7576      .4972               1.523               93.46
    
    Heilmann           .7905     .8071     .7751      .5093               1.521               93.94
    
    BTerry             .7678     .7265     .8097      .5334               1.517               93.57
    
    Ott                .7661     .7938     .7398      .5066               1.460               93.45
    
    Stargell           .7357     .7643     .7093      .4864               1.458               93.28
    
    McGwire            .7978     .8004     .7953      .5489               1.448               98.37
    
    EMathews           .6989     .6634     .7321      .5060               1.446               92.88
    
    Simmons            .8033     .8560     .7548      .5255               1.436               93.70
    
    Schmidt            .7198     .7419     .6995      .4888               1.431               93.61
    
    FRobinson          .7607     .8248     .7039      .4928               1.428               94.19
    
    MRamirez           .8511     .8569     .8455      .5955               1.419               99.26
    
    Greenberg          .8813     1.028     .7443      .5272               1.411               93.46
    
    McCovey            .7048     .7221     .6890      .4915               1.401               93.27
    
    VGuerrero          .8097     .8392     .7795      .5566               1.400               97.12
    
    Speaker ('14-'28)  .7706     .8608     .6897      .4923               1.400               94.06
    
    Goslin             .7304     .7008     .7580      .5417               1.399               93.88
    
    JGonzalez          .7956     .8090     .7833      .5621               1.393               99.88
    
    Snider             .7661     .8167     .7168      .5151               1.391               92.88
    
    ABelle             .7996     .8302     .7710      .5582               1.381               99.91
    
    Medwick            .7459     .8175     .6812      .4935               1.380               93.41
    
    Colavito           .6656     .6595     .6710      .4874               1.376               93.28
    
    HWilson            .7859     .8365     .7363      .5358               1.374               93.58
    
    FHoward            .6862     .7052     .6679      .4865               1.372               93.25
    
    Bagwell            .7683     .8040     .7345      .5404               1.359               94.13
    
    RJackson           .6640     .6459     .6814      .5021               1.357               98.00
    
    Kiner              .7597     .8333     .6888      .5096               1.351               93.10
    
    ARodriguez         .7966     .8287     .7660      .5685               1.347               99.90
    
    Wheat ('14-'27)    .6795     .7088     .6511      .4838               1.345               94.07
    
    Maris              .6432     .6341     .6514      .4848               1.343               93.25
    
    Dawson             .6692     .6686     .6697      .5011               1.336               94.33
    
    EMartinez          .7486     .7500     .7474      .5593               1.336               99.88
    
    Clemente           .6960     .7279     .6664      .4999               1.333               92.88
    
    McGriff            .7113     .7058     .7165      .5428               1.320               97.00
    
    Winfield           .6614     .6395     .6820      .5172               1.318               97.72
    
    Cash               .6702     .7115     .6308      .4796               1.315               94.00
    
    Delgado            .7580     .7681     .7482      .5697               1.313               98.17
    
    Gwynn              .6928     .7092     .6773      .5179               1.307               93.85
    
    Thome              .7658     .8001     .7318      .5598               1.307               98.90
    
    Bench              .6495     .6672     .6322      .4844               1.305               93.47 - C
    
    CJones             .7598     .8130     .7091      .5443               1.302               94.21
    
    Sosa               .7344     .7670     .7031      .5417               1.297               95.77
    
    Lombardi           .6626     .6861     .6398      .4931               1.297               93.41 - C
    
    BiWilliams         .6927     .7519     .6354      .4912               1.293               93.66
    
    Sheffield          .7256     .7485     .7038      .5444               1.292               96.54
    
    KWilliams          .7791     .9070     .6571      .5086               1.291               94.00
    
    Berra              .6740     .7071     .6434      .4985               1.290               93.57 - C
    
    FThomas            .7939     .8621     .7270      .5661               1.284               99.89
    
    Edmonds            .7364     .7514     .7215      .5625               1.282               96.52
    
    LWalker            .8224     .9767     .6849      .5346               1.281               94.11
    
    Klein              .7986     .9553     .6528      .5097               1.280               93.35
    
    EMurray            .6678     .6601     .6751      .5294               1.275               98.42
    
    Brett              .7010     .7431     .6614      .5196               1.272               100.0
    
    Canseco            .7009     .6962     .7052      .5543               1.272               99.94
    
    Carew              .6384     .6504     .6272      .4969               1.262               97.78
    
    Kingman            .6254     .6264     .6244      .4960               1.258               95.00
    
    EDavis             .6597     .6593     .6600      .5245               1.258               95.11
    
    Hodges             .6697     .6992     .6421      .5128               1.252               93.00
    
    Sisler             .7096     .7848     .6381      .5104               1.250               94.03
    
    Griffey Jr         .7508     .8136     .6941      .5552               1.250               97.70
    
    Averill            .7821     .8950     .6744      .5396               1.249               93.61
    
    KHernandez         .6195     .6269     .6126      .4906               1.248               94.05
    
    Garvey             .6319     .6528     .6118      .4911               1.245               93.52
    
    DParker            .6628     .7125     .6183      .4968               1.244               95.00
    
    Banks              .6882     .7566     .6226      .5056               1.231               92.89
    
    KBoyer             .6481     .6835     .6136      .5010               1.224               92.86
    
    JRice              .7152     .8022     .6349      .5201               1.220               100.0
    
    Buhner             .6614     .6466     .6762      .5565               1.215               99.93
    
    JLopez             .6888     .7117     .6673      .5504               1.212               95.33 - C
    
    Helton             .7885     .9273     .6573      .5442               1.207               94.23
    
    Tenace             .5651     .5447     .5839      .4858               1.201               95.20 - C
    
    DMurphy            .6382     .6938     .5864      .4925               1.190               93.72
    
    GCarter            .5948     .6107     .5799      .4891               1.185               93.73 - C
    
    Fisk               .6248     .6462     .6042      .5121               1.179               99.12 - C
    
    Ripken Jr          .6176     .5934     .6406      .5478               1.169               99.95
    
    Yastrzemski        .6463     .7249     .5734      .4906               1.168               96.34
    
    Larkin             .6301     .6481     .6121      .5283               1.158               93.94
    
    Campanella         .6902     .7992     .5973      .5174               1.154               93.10 - C
    
    Caminiti           .6135     .6198     .6073      .5269               1.152               94.13
    
    Rose               .5871     .6181     .5581      .4859               1.148               93.33
    
    Greenwell          .6642     .7121     .6189      .5417               1.142               100.0
    
    Sandberg           .6312     .7017     .5635      .5016               1.123               93.75
    
    JCarter            .6268     .6472     .6067      .5406               1.122               99.37
    
    Santo              .6417     .7422     .5461      .4903               1.113               93.33
    
    IRodriguez         .6596     .6961     .6250      .5628               1.110               99.23 - C
    
    Boggs              .6586     .7593     .5654      .5465               1.034               99.94


    Code:
                                      ROAD RELATIVE AB/RBI                     
                
                   AB / RBI    AB / RBI    AB / RBI   LG SPECIFIC    (LG AB / RBI ÷ ROAD AB / RBI)*100)
                   OVERALL     HOME    -.ROAD   ROAD AB / RBI         ROAD REL AB / RBI           LG OPS+         (HOME AS ROAD)
    Code:
    Ruth            3.793      3.799      3.794     10.131                 267.0                 94.00
    
    Gehrig          4.010      4.059      3.956      7.715                 195.0                 93.76
    
    TWilliams       4.190      4.027      4.369      8.414                 192.5                 93.57
    
    JDiMaggio       4.437      4.666      4.236      8.053                 190.1                 93.46
    
    Stargell        5.147      4.927      5.374      9.447                 175.7                 93.28
    
    McCovey         5.271      5.047      5.485      9.347                 170.4                 93.27
    
    Aaron           5.382      5.342      5.420      9.183                 169.4                 93.56
    
    BaBonds         4.933      4.854      5.009      8.422                 168.1                 93.95
    
    Hornsby         5.585      5.406      5.771      9.607                 166.4                 93.73
    
    Mantle          5.369      5.336      5.400      8.952                 165.7                 93.38
    
    Schmidt         5.236      4.872      5.625      9.318                 165.6                 93.61
    
    Bench           5.565      5.330      5.818      9.455                 162.5                 93.47 -C
    
    Mathews         5.875      6.138      5.645      9.048                 160.2                 92.88
    
    Piazza          5.176      5.263      5.101      8.141                 159.5                 94.50 -C
    
    Mize            4.818      4.286      5.492      8.664                 157.7                 93.46
    
    Mays            5.717      5.638      5.793      9.113                 157.3                 92.90
    
    RJackson        5.795      5.809      5.781      9.021                 156.0                 98.00
    
    Bagwell         5.099      4.916      5.289      8.236                 155.7                 94.13
    
    Berra           5.283      5.015      5.551      8.580                 154.5                 93.57 -C
    
    Greenberg       4.069      3.536      4.800      7.410                 154.3                 93.46
    
    FThomas         4.811      4.592      5.050      7.724                 152.9                 99.89
    
    Snider          5.372      5.068      5.713      8.677                 151.8                 92.88
    
    ASimmons        4.791      4.326      5.288      8.021                 151.6                 93.70
    
    Hodges          5.518      5.262      5.781      8.700                 150.4                 93.00
    
    Goslin          5.376      5.472      5.236      7.803                 149.0                 93.88
    
    FRobinson       5.522      4.926      6.207      9.244                 148.9                 94.19
    
    Thome           4.957      4.548      5.440      7.872                 144.7                 98.90
    
    McGriff         5.649      5.456      5.844      8.391                 143.5                 97.00
    
    Tenace          6.513      6.259      6.764      9.358                 138.3                 95.20 -C
    
    KHernandez      6.881      7.000      6.774      9.271                 136.8                 94.05
    
    JRice           5.668      5.081      6.394      8.621                 134.8                 100.0
    
    VGuerrero       5.451      5.027      5.973      7.963                 133.3                 97.12
    
    CJones          5.535      5.011      6.168      8.180                 132.6                 94.21
    
    Clemente        7.244      7.027      7.465      9.210                 123.3                 92.88
    
    Yastrzemski     6.501      5.595      7.733      9.182                 118.7                 96.34
    
    Boggs           9.053      8.627      9.542      8.050                 84.36                 99.94
    Code:
                                      ROAD RELATIVE BATTING AVG
                        
                                                (PITCHERS REMOVED)                                           (PITCHERS REMOVED)
                      BA        BA         BA     LG SPECIFIC    (LG BA ÷ ROAD BA)*100)                         rrBA+                   
                   OVERALL     HOME    -.ROAD      ROAD BA         ROAD REL BA           LG OPS+         (HOME AS ROAD)
    Code:
    Cobb ('14-'28)  .365       .357       .372       .2741              135.7              94.06             134.3
    
    Gwynn           .338       .343       .334       .2622              127.3              93.85             127.7
    
    Hornsby         .358       .359       .358       .2795              128.0              93.73             127.7
    
    TWilliams       .344       .361       .328       .2652              123.6              93.57             123.7
    
    Musial          .331       .336       .326       .2631              123.9              93.13             123.3
    
    Gehrig          .340       .329       .351       .2843              123.4              93.76             122.2
    
    Ruth            .342       .346       .338       .2761              122.4              94.00             121.8
    
    JDiMaggio       .325       .315       .333       .2725              122.2              93.46             121.0
    
    Piazza          .308       .294       .320       .2659              120.3              94.50             119.3 - C
    
    VGuerrero       .318       .323       .312       .2639              118.2              97.12             118.0
    
    Aaron           .305       .303       .306       .2595              117.9              93.56             117.6
    
    Boggs           .328       .354       .302       .2618              115.3              99.94             117.0
    
    WMays           .302       .302       .301       .2603              115.6              92.90             115.2
    
    ASimmons        .334       .346       .323       .2797              115.4              93.70             115.2
    
    BTerry          .341       .330       .352       .3079              114.3              93.57             115.2
    
    KHernandez      .296       .299       .293       .2592              113.0              94.05             112.8
    
    BaBonds         .298       .301       .296       .2635              112.3              93.95             112.5
    
    Gehringer       .320       .323       .318       .2819              112.8              93.63             112.0
    
    Goslin          .316       .310       .321       .2849              112.6              93.88             111.6
    
    Foxx            .325       .345       .307       .2797              109.7              93.60             110.4
    
    RHenderson      .279       .274       .284       .2618              108.4              98.88             108.1
    
    Ripken Jr       .276       .267       .283       .2621              107.9              99.95             107.0
    
    LWalker         .313       .348       .278       .2638              105.3              94.11             106.7
    
    Stargell        .282       .290       .274       .2587              105.9              93.28             106.4
    
    EMathews        .271       .264       .277       .2600              106.5              92.88             105.9
    
    Greenberg       .313       .338       .289       .2770              104.3              93.46             105.5
    
    Thome           .276       .276       .277       .2636              105.0              98.90             104.2
    
    Sandberg        .285       .300       .269       .2601              103.4              93.75             104.1
    
    Schmidt         .267       .272       .263       .2591              101.5              93.61             101.1
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    BaBonds         .8645     .8833     .8471      .5323               1.591               93.95
    
    Mantle          .7932     .8191     .7690      .4900               1.569               93.38
    
    Mize            .8170     .8795     .7576      .4972               1.523               93.46
    
    Heilmann        .7905     .8071     .7751      .5093               1.521               93.94
    
    Ott             .7661     .7938     .7398      .5066               1.460               93.45
    
    
    
    McGwire         .7978     .8004     .7953      .5489               1.448               98.37
    
    
    
    FRobinson       .7607     .8248     .7039      .4928               1.428               94.19
    
    MRamirez        .8511     .8569     .8455      .5955               1.419               99.26
    
    
    
    McCovey         .7048     .7221     .6890      .4915               1.401               93.27
    
    JGonzalez       .7956     .8090     .7833      .5621               1.393               99.88
    
    Snider          .7661     .8167     .7168      .5151               1.391               92.88
    
    ABelle          .7996     .8302     .7710      .5582               1.381               99.91
    
    Medwick         .7459     .8175     .6812      .4935               1.380               93.41
    
    Colavito        .6656     .6595     .6710      .4874               1.376               93.28
    
    HWilson         .7859     .8365     .7363      .5358               1.374               93.58
    
    FHoward         .6862     .7052     .6679      .4865               1.372               93.25
    
    Bagwell         .7683     .8040     .7345      .5404               1.359               94.13
    
    RJackson        .6640     .6459     .6814      .5021               1.357               98.00
    
    Kiner           .7597     .8333     .6888      .5096               1.351               93.10
    
    ARodriguez      .7966     .8287     .7660      .5685               1.347               99.90
    
    Wheat ('14-'27) .6795     .7088     .6511      .4838               1.345               94.07
    
    Maris           .6432     .6341     .6514      .4848               1.343               93.25
    
    Dawson          .6692     .6686     .6697      .5011               1.336               94.33
    
    EMartinez       .7486     .7500     .7474      .5593               1.336               99.88
    
    Clemente        .6960     .7279     .6664      .4999               1.333               92.88
    
    McGriff         .7113     .7058     .7165      .5428               1.320               97.00
    
    Winfield        .6614     .6395     .6820      .5172               1.318               97.72
    
    Cash            .6702     .7115     .6308      .4796               1.315               94.00
    
    Delgado         .7580     .7681     .7482      .5697               1.313               98.17
    
    
    
    
    
    Bench           .6495     .6672     .6322      .4844               1.305               93.47 - C
    
    CJones          .7598     .8130     .7091      .5443               1.302               94.21
    
    Sosa            .7344     .7670     .7031      .5417               1.297               95.77
    
    Lombardi        .6626     .6861     .6398      .4931               1.297               93.41 - C
    
    BiWilliams      .6927     .7519     .6354      .4912               1.293               93.66
    
    Sheffield       .7256     .7485     .7038      .5444               1.292               96.54
    
    KWilliams       .7791     .9070     .6571      .5086               1.291               94.00
    
    Berra           .6740     .7071     .6434      .4985               1.290               93.57 - C
    
    FThomas         .7939     .8621     .7270      .5661               1.284               99.89
    
    Edmonds         .7364     .7514     .7215      .5625               1.282               96.52
    
    
    
    Klein           .7986     .9553     .6528      .5097               1.280               93.35
    
    EMurray         .6678     .6601     .6751      .5294               1.275               98.42
    
    Brett           .7010     .7431     .6614      .5196               1.272               100.0
    
    Canseco         .7009     .6962     .7052      .5543               1.272               99.94
    
    Carew           .6384     .6504     .6272      .4969               1.262               97.78
    
    Kingman         .6254     .6264     .6244      .4960               1.258               95.00
    
    EDavis          .6597     .6593     .6600      .5245               1.258               95.11
    
    Hodges          .6697     .6992     .6421      .5128               1.252               93.00
    
    Sisler          .7096     .7848     .6381      .5104               1.250               94.03
    
    Griffey Jr      .7508     .8136     .6941      .5552               1.250               97.70
    
    Averill         .7821     .8950     .6744      .5396               1.249               93.61
    
    Garvey          .6319     .6528     .6118      .4911               1.245               93.52
    
    DParker         .6628     .7125     .6183      .4968               1.244               95.00
    
    Banks           .6882     .7566     .6226      .5056               1.231               92.89
    
    KBoyer          .6481     .6835     .6136      .5010               1.224               92.86
    
    JRice           .7152     .8022     .6349      .5201               1.220               100.0
    
    Buhner          .6614     .6466     .6762      .5565               1.215               99.93
    
    JLopez          .6888     .7117     .6673      .5504               1.212               95.33 - C
    
    Helton          .7885     .9273     .6573      .5442               1.207               94.23
    
    Tenace          .5651     .5447     .5839      .4858               1.201               95.20 - C
    
    DMurphy         .6382     .6938     .5864      .4925               1.190               93.72
    
    GCarter         .5948     .6107     .5799      .4891               1.185               93.73 - C
    
    Fisk            .6248     .6462     .6042      .5121               1.179               99.12 - C
    
    
    
    Yastrzemski     .6463     .7249     .5734      .4906               1.168               96.34
    
    Larkin          .6301     .6481     .6121      .5283               1.158               93.94
    
    Campanella      .6902     .7992     .5973      .5174               1.154               93.10 - C
    
    Caminiti        .6135     .6198     .6073      .5269               1.152               94.13
    
    Rose            .5871     .6181     .5581      .4859               1.148               93.33
    
    Greenwell       .6642     .7121     .6189      .5417               1.142               100.0
    
    
    
    JCarter         .6268     .6472     .6067      .5406               1.122               99.37
    
    Santo           .6417     .7422     .5461      .4903               1.113               93.33
    
    IRodriguez      .6596     .6961     .6250      .5628               1.110               99.23 - C
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 02-26-2017 at 04:38 PM.

  2. #2
    So the first question I will ask for stats people is how is Rbat calculated?
    Is it based on some kind of linear weights of events?
    I know that it is supposed to be batting runs above average.

    It looks like from my previous investigations that within a given season a run is standardized to a standard ballpark, but this is not true from season to season. So in other words, for a player to get an Rbat in Coors he actually has to do more than he would have to do to get an Rbat in a different home park. His Rbat are adjusted down to a standard park in that year. However, a player who produces an Rbat in 1936 AL does not get his Rbat standardized to the level of an average season, just an average park in 1936.

    This would mean that Rbat should eventually be adjusted for the run environment of the league (which happens when it is changed into WAR, but WAR does not just include batting value).

    Another thing. If we know the league runs per game, say 4.5, then we know that a full time player should be producing about 81 runs in a season. 4.5/9 x 162.

    So lets take the example of Babe Ruth 1921:
    Ruth 1921 produced 116 Rbat (ABOVE AVERAGE) in 693 PAs (already standardized to park)

    The league as a whole had 6296 runs in 48698 PAs. So an average guy would have netted 89.6 runs in 693 PAs.

    Taking (116 + 89.6)/89.6 we get 2.29, basically and Rbat version of OPS+ (Ruth 1921: Rbat+=229) without all of the errors that OPS+ gets at high levels.

    This DOES neutralize the league run environment and give you an OPS+ like score based on Rbat, which is a) much more inherently meaningful than the way OPS+ is arrived at and 2) more accurate as it accounts for more things like the specific value of events.

    Sultan, this does interest me, basically working on Rbat+ because it saves us having to do anything with the run environment from season to season, but we do have to add up league runs per plate appearance.

    There are two minor flaws and they occur with any stat. One is that a player who makes fewer outs will actually get more PAs than average because he is saving himself some PAs so if you replace a Ruth 1921 with 693 PAS, the average guy probably loses 15-20 PAs because his higher out total will cost him some PAs. This could also be fixed but takes about twice as long as the work to get Rbat+ as I presented it above.

    The second issue or problem is whether to use runs, or earned runs, but I don't think Rbat cares how a player nets a run, whether it is form an error or not. Let's ignore this one for now.

  3. #3
    I realized that I can compare the players' outs to the league rate of outs to figure out how many extra plate appearances a player like Ruth "earned for himself". Rbat already has a cost value of making outs. What I want to account for is that the low out producer is getting some of his extra plate appearances because he is saving outs.

    So let's work through the math for Babe Ruth 1921, which I chose simply because it is the highest Rbat total in history at 116.

    Rbat: 116 (above average)
    PAs: 693
    Batting outs: 336 (I will not look at Sacs or GIDPs at this point as they may be situational and also were not always official or kept stats. So I just take AB-H)

    League runs: 6296
    League PAs: 48698
    League outs: 30280

    The next part I am going to have to figure out how to put in into an algebraic equation later, but using plugging and checking I got that Ruth's 693 PAs were 103% higher because he made few outs. The average player would have gotten just 675.

    (Basically and to within about 1 PA, The average player got 1.61 PAs per out. Multiplying by 336 outs that Ruth made, they would have gotten 540 PAs in the same number of outs that he got 693, however, only 1/9 of his 153 extra PAs would have gone to himself, so an average player in Ruth's spot would have only gotten 674-675 PAs while he got 693).

    In 675 PAs the average player produced 87.3 Rbat.

    Ruth had 116.

    (116+87.3)/87.3= 2.33, or 233%, strikingly similar to his OPS+ of 238

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    16,509
    [
    Quote Originally Posted by brett View Post
    I realized that I can compare the players' outs to the league rate of outs to figure out how many extra plate appearances a player like Ruth "earned for himself". Rbat already has a cost value of making outs. What I want to account for is that the low out producer is getting some of his extra plate appearances because he is saving outs.

    So let's work through the math for Babe Ruth 1921, which I chose simply because it is the highest Rbat total in history at 116.

    Rbat: 116 (above average)
    PAs: 693
    Batting outs: 336 (I will not look at Sacs or GIDPs at this point as they may be situational and also were not always official or kept stats. So I just take AB-H)

    League runs: 6296
    League PAs: 48698
    League outs: 30280

    The next part I am going to have to figure out how to put in into an algebraic equation later, but using plugging and checking I got that Ruth's 693 PAs were 103% higher because he made few outs. The average player would have gotten just 675.

    (Basically and to within about 1 PA, The average player got 1.61 PAs per out. Multiplying by 336 outs that Ruth made, they would have gotten 540 PAs in the same number of outs that he got 693, however, only 1/9 of his 153 extra PAs would have gone to himself, so an average player in Ruth's spot would have only gotten 674-675 PAs while he got 693).

    In 675 PAs the average player produced 87.3 Rbat.

    Ruth had 116.

    (116+87.3)/87.3= 2.33, or 233%, strikingly similar to his OPS+ of 238
    good stuff. We could be getting somewhere. Hopefully some others will chime in.

    on a side note...a few questions

    Guess I just don't understand what you're doing with the walk thing. Are you punishing guys who walk more? To take two extreme examples Bonds and Ichiro, Bonds is creating more appearances for himself and his teammates. That's a good thing.

    Why wouldn't you eliminatethe error issue all together and use only earned runs?

    How are you going to adjust for the DH issue?

    After the final numbers, would it be necessary to make some kind of standard deviation adjustments for League quality or is that overkill?
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 02-12-2014 at 11:20 AM.
    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

  5. #5
    As for earned runs, Rbat actually estimates a players runs created whether they are earned or unearned so I believe it is more accurate.

    As for the walk thing, its minor. Origially I was looking at how many runs Ruth produced above average (116) and what the average player did in the same number of plate appearances (693 which would be 89 runs) but I realized that Ruth's low outs meant that he GOT 693 PAS, but an average hitter would only have gotten about 675, so I'm actually giving Ruth more credit for making fewer outs. Ruth produced over 693 PAs but an average guy should only count his rate of production through 675 because Ruth effectively created 18 more plate appearances for himself.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    16,509
    What does it show for DiMaggio, Mays, and Cobb? You're using overall career numbers, not just single seasons, correct?

    I'll get any info you need, just need to know what.

    ---------------

    Just to kick this off, I will recap some back and forth with Brett. My initial thought was to incorporate runs created with PA and outs made, to get some sort of RC EFFICIENCY stat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    I know what these numbers tell us individually, but is there any way to combine them to tell us more? A higher number is better on top and lower number is better on bottom. Does the difference between them mean anything?

    A couple random guys....

    Mantle

    PA/OUTS - 1.679
    OUTS/RC - 2.894

    Mays

    PA/OUTS - 1.551
    OUTS/RC - 3.402
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett
    RC is a pretty good stat for getting a player's raw net production. Outs and PA both have problems being on the bottom. If we look at RC per out, well, a player who makes one less out is not actually getting to use that out himself to produce more, he's just saving it for somebody else on his team, or an average guy if you will. If we use PA we have the problem that two guys can have say 2 RC in 4 PAs, but if one of them is making 2 outs, and one is making 3 outs, the guy making 3 is costing his team one extra chance to produce.

    So here's what I would do, If you like RC, take RC, subtract outs times some value lost for the out, and divide the total by PA.

    An out should simply cost however many runs are scored in the league divided by the total number of outs produced by the league. Let's say that the league produces 4.0 runs per game, well, take 4.0/27 and we see that the cost of an out is about -0.148 runs.

    So take a players RC minus (outs x 0.148) all divided by plate appearances. What is interesting with this approach is that an average player should end up with a total of ZERO RC - runs cost per PA.

    Now technically I think that the average team gets 26.25 outs per game, (half the time both teams get 27, and half the time one gets 24) so we should divide the runs per game by 25.25, but its still neat that the average player would come out to zero. What For good players you basically would end up with how many net runs they gain above average per plate appearance for their team.
    Before I received this response, I jumped the gun and began looking at some players, their difference between those two numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    So I looked up Mays year by year league R/G


    4.5
    4.2
    4.6
    4.5
    4.2
    4.4
    4.4
    4.4
    4.2
    4.5
    4.5
    3.8
    4.0
    4.0
    4.1
    3.8
    3.4
    4.0
    4.5
    3.9
    3.9
    4.1

    4.17

    Anyway, I looked up some player just using the raw difference from PA/OUT and OUT/RC....here are the results

    Attachment 135691
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett
    It's 26.25, so the last step is to take 4.17/26.25 which would be 0.159. That's how many runs were produced per out.

    So you take May's runs created. Then take 0.159 x his outs. Subtract that from RC and divide the total by his PAs.

    If you do it, send me his RC and PAs and outs and I'll tell you his score.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    OH SNAP!!!

    I got it right?

    Problem is, it took awhile to get his avg league R/G, and I have to do that for every player!
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett
    I was thinking about that. There are two things. One is that RC is not really adjusted to the run environment anyway, so you are going to get only slight issues if you just use a standard of say 0.15 runs per out for everyone. There may be another way to get the same result though. Do you know what formula is used to get the version of RC that you are using?

    The simplest way to get something like this would be to go to BBRef, and go to player value. Then take Rbat divided by plate appearances. Rbat is more accurate than RC and you don't have to calculate any league averages. Mays comes out to 0.068 for example and Ruth to 0.126. That is batting runs above average per plate appearance. From there you could multiply it by say 650 to see what they did per season. Ruth would be 81.6 batting runs above average per 650 PAs while Mays would be 44.2 batting runs above average. Personally I would rather see players listed by that value if I were going to invest the time because Rbat uses the most accurate version of runs created, and already adjusts them to the run environment. Ted Williams is 70.9, Gehrig is 65.2 (all per 650 PAs).

    In fact, Rbat alone is set "above average" and career Rbat is a great way to rate hitters. Here are a few players career Rbat totals:

    Ruth: 1334
    Bonds: 1127
    Williams: 1068
    Cobb: 995
    Gehrig: 969
    Musial: 884
    Aaron: 870
    Hornsby: 860
    Mays: 805
    Mantle: 802
    Foxx: 758

    One nice thing about this is that a player can not rack up a lot just by hanging around. If they put up average level of hitting they don't gain anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    That sounds like the way to go then. Would save a lot of time. I would still like to include out made because I think that shows efficiency as it relates to their production.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett
    Rbat is already subtracting the cost of outs from the runs created.
    ...........Actually while this gives runs above average, a run is worth more in a 4 rpg setting than a 5 rpg setting, so technically the runs should be weighted by the run environment to figure out how truly valuable it was. There is a way to do it, but its complicated..
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    It seems this Rbat takes into account a lot of things. So many things that it's hard to believe, actually. But I trust your word. It does beg the question though.....

    How come nobody ever references it in discussions. It's always OPS+ and WAR.

    Scroll to the bottom of this page. http://www.baseball-reference.com/ab...ned_wraa.shtml It has R/OUT and R/PA for every league, every year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett
    Maybe we should start a thread on stats about Rbat. It DOES account for runs based on the run environment, for example a single is worth appoximately a certain number of runs in a given environment. It also does ballpark adjustments which you may or may not like. What I am saying is that it does not account for the fact that 10 runs is worth more wins in a league that averages 4 runs per game than one that averages 5 runs per game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    I am committed to coming up with a better, or I guess, more accumulative stat than OPS+ or WAR. Of course no stat is perfect, but if this Rbat on its own, does what you say it does, it's the best place to start imo.
    So that's where we are. I don't have much to offer in the calculations of advanced stuff but will put in the time to help accumulate data.

    Any thoughts on this Rbat stat? Why is never mentioned? It already incorporates runs created and outs made in terms of efficiency, along with ballpark factors and some type of run scoring environment. Seems it tells quite a bit.

    avg number of dongs hit by a mlb team


    red = 161 - 200
    blue = 121 - 160
    green = 81 - 120
    orange = 41 - 80
    black = 1 - 40


    year - hr

    2013 - 155
    2012 - 164
    2011 - 152

    2010 - 154----------------------------
    2009 - 168
    2008 - 163
    2007 - 165
    2006 - 179
    2005 – 167........170.3 avg
    2004 – 182
    2003 – 174
    2002 – 169
    2001 – 182----------------------------

    2000 – 190----------------------------
    1999 – 184
    1998 – 169
    1997 – 166
    1996 – 177
    1995 – 164........160.9 avg
    1994 – 168
    1993 – 144
    1992 – 117
    1991 – 130----------------------------

    1990 – 128----------------------------
    1989 – 119
    1988 – 122
    1987 – 171
    1986 – 147
    1985 – 139........127.7 avg
    1984 – 125
    1983 – 127
    1982 – 130
    1981 – 69----------------------------

    1980 – 118----------------------------
    1979 – 132
    1978 – 114
    1977 – 140
    1976 – 93
    1975 – 112........117.3 avg
    1974 – 110
    1973 – 129
    1972 – 106
    1971 – 119----------------------------

    1970 – 143----------------------------
    1969 – 130
    1968 – 100
    1967 – 115
    1966 – 137
    1965 – 134........133.3 avg
    1964 – 138
    1963 – 135
    1962 – 150
    1961 – 151----------------------------

    1960 – 133----------------------------
    1959 – 140
    1958 – 140
    1957 – 138
    1956 – 143
    1955 – 139........130.6 avg
    1954 – 121
    1953 – 130
    1952 – 106
    1951 – 116----------------------------

    1950 – 130----------------------------
    1949 – 107
    1948 – 97
    1947 – 98
    1946 – 76
    1945 – 63........71.2 avg
    1944 – 65
    1943 – 56
    1942 – 67
    1941 – 83----------------------------

    1940 – 98----------------------------
    1939 – 90
    1938 – 92
    1937 – 89
    1936 – 85
    1935 – 83........84.0 avg
    1934 – 84
    1933 – 67
    1932 – 85
    1931 – 67----------------------------

    1930 – 98----------------------------
    1929 – 84
    1928 – 68
    1927 – 58
    1926 – 54
    1925 – 73........67.6 avg
    1924 – 56
    1923 – 61
    1922 – 66
    1921 – 58----------------------------

    1920 – 39----------------------------
    1919 – 28
    1918 – 15
    1917 – 21
    1916 – 24
    1915 – 24........26.6 avg
    1914 – 26
    1913 – 29
    1912 – 28
    1911 – 32----------------------------

    1910 – 22----------------------------
    1909 – 16
    1908 – 17
    1907 – 15
    1906 – 16
    1905 – 21........19.9 avg
    1904 – 21
    1903 – 21
    1902 – 22
    1901 – 28----------------------------
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 01-09-2015 at 10:53 PM.
    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

  7. #7
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    Your Second Base Coach
    Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey started 833 times and the Dodgers went 498-335, for a .598 winning percentage. That’s equal to a team going 97-65 over a season. On those occasions when at least one of them missed his start, the Dodgers were 306-267-1, which is a .534 clip. That works out to a team going 87-75. So having all four of them added 10 wins to the Dodgers per year.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hCIvMule0

  8. #8
    Total average has the precise problem of dividing by player outs. Players don't get outs, and they don't really get plate appearances either. They get plate appearances plus or minus extra PAs created or lost by their rate of making outs.

    If Rbat (for war) is really a good weighted measure of run production above average, then Rbat divided by the league average run production for the same number of plate appearances plus or minus those created or lost for oneself would basically be an OPS+ like stat but that is actually meaningful and accurate throughout the entire range of player productivity. But because of some of the issues with coming up with the career-long run environment and league OB% for a player, maybe it would be better to just convert Rbat into batting wins above average. This would account for run environement and general park effects and weigh everything right.

    Babe Ruth has 1334 Rbat (above average)
    We can see that war shows that 1717 RAR converts to 163.2 WAR which means that 10.52 runs equals one win.
    So 1334/10.52= 126.8 career games won above average by hitting for Ruth.

    That is a darn good estimate of his career greatness as a hitter, and pretty simple to come up with. While there are a few flaws with the next step, on the order of tenths of wins, that also can be shown as a rate, 8.21 batting wins per 162 games.
    Ruth: +126.8/8.21
    Bonds: +111.9/6.07
    Williams: +106.0/7.49
    Cobb: +105.4/5.63
    Gehrig: +89.7/6.72
    Hornsby: +86.3/6.19
    Pujols: +65.3/5.40


    Also assuming 4.5 batting wins per full time player per 162 (which may be a little high because baserunning is not net zero) we would also come up with OPS+ like scores of the following:

    Ruth: 282
    Williams: 266
    Bonds: 235
    Cobb: 225
    Gehrig: 249
    Hornsby: 238
    Pujols: 220

    Which tend to support that OPS+ fails to stay proportional at very high levels, and so may underrate the best hitters. Remember though that this includes pitchers in the league totals. Still all of these guys would be over 200 relative rate of production even with pitchers taken out of the equation.

  9. #9
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    =======================

    DeanAvatar.gif
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 01-01-2015 at 01:24 PM.
    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

  10. #10
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    Ok, Brett or anyone else with ideas....

    I know we have slugging average. Instead of using just total bases/AB, I thought maybe looking at TB/OUTS would show something.

    Here are the top 20, sorted by actual slugging average first, and then sorted by this new number, perhaps Slugging Efficiency.

    Ruth --------1.006
    Williams ----.923
    Gehrig -----.922
    Foxx -------.869
    Bonds ------.817
    Greenberg -.851
    Pujols ------.815
    McGwire ---.758
    MRamirez --.799
    DiMaggio ---.829
    Hornsby ----.852
    MCabrera ---.782
    LWalker ----.773
    Belle -------.742
    Mize -------.795
    Braun ------.774
    JGonzalez -.749
    Musial -----.796
    ARodriguez .749
    WMays ----.752

    RED (moved up)
    BLUE (moved down)
    BLACK (stayed same)

    Ruth --------1.006
    Williams ----.923
    Gehrig -----.922
    Foxx -------.869
    Hornsby ---.852
    Greenberg -.851
    DiMaggio ---.829
    Bonds ------.817
    Pujols ------.815
    MRamirez --.799
    Musial ------.796
    Mize -------.795
    MCabrera --.782
    Braun ------.774
    LWalker ----.773
    McGwire ---.758
    WMays -----.752
    JGonzalez -.7497
    ARodriguez .7494
    Belle -------.742



    Obviously it would be nice to have home/road OUTS MADE numbers, but I don't see them on bb-ref. That would dramatically impact the list.

    So my questions are these....

    1. Would adding (SB - CS) to total bases be a fair thing? Should that be counted as a total base? I know certain eras ran more than others, and running isn't hitting, but just thought I'd ask.

    2. Whether we do #1 or not, is there any way to use the league average SA with the TB/OUTS number, to put era into better perspective?

    Thanks in advance!

    #21-#25 in traditional SA order, just for kicks

    Mantle -----.764
    FThomas --.745
    Aaron -----.750
    Thome ----.734
    Vladdy ----.751
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 04-11-2014 at 07:20 PM.
    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

  11. #11
    I'm not certain that this fits the ends intended; but, for me, if we are going to bring an evaluation of outs clearly into the picture of base-runs net production, we should give special attention to what I call negative outs ... those outs, which, of their very nature, are particularly non-productive.

    I have looked at the top 30 or so run producers and determined the larger scope of total negative outs as relative percentage of all outs per player. I have also determined specific negative values for each K and DP, subtracting thier negative values from player RC as presented in B-R, Advanced Batting.

    If this data might be useful, I'll post it. Otherwise, I'll continue to listen.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by leewileyfan View Post
    I'm not certain that this fits the ends intended; but, for me, if we are going to bring an evaluation of outs clearly into the picture of base-runs net production, we should give special attention to what I call negative outs ... those outs, which, of their very nature, are particularly non-productive.

    I have looked at the top 30 or so run producers and determined the larger scope of total negative outs as relative percentage of all outs per player. I have also determined specific negative values for each K and DP, subtracting thier negative values from player RC as presented in B-R, Advanced Batting.

    If this data might be useful, I'll post it. Otherwise, I'll continue to listen.
    That is interesting. Hadn't thought of it.

    Not sure you can paint every K or DP with the same negative brush.

    If the hitter goes deep in the count, fouls of a number of borderline pitches, and eventually K's, he's made the pitcher work, higher pitch count. He can also better communicate with he teammates about the pitcher's stuff that day.

    Double play..the end result is obviously negative, but on the surface, the batter put the ball in play. That's step #1 of getting a hit.

    Let's say the batter hits a hard liner to the third baseman, who jumps up to his left, snares it, and without hesitation, fires to first to double up the runner. That runner, instead of "freezing on a line drive in front of you", took a step toward second base after his secondary, and by that time it was too late. Hitter roped it, runner messes up.

    To that point, the majority of doubles plays, are made on balls that are solidly hit. If not hit solid (except in extreme cases where the runner is slow as molasses) the hitter usually beats the throw to first.

    The bottom line is not all K and DP are created equal. I'm confident you're already aware of this, and we obviously lack the data necessary to account for it. So the end result is all that can matter.

    Would still be interested in seeing your data. How big of a DP split was there for righties vs lefties? Any correlation with higher SB in an era translating to fewer DP?

    Also, seems like more errors or bobbled balls turning a would-be DP into a simple FC had to happen back in the day.
    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

  13. #13
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    Brett, your inbox is full.

    Thanks for the explanation. Will have to edit all the players now...Tejada's pathetic career bWAA went from 9.58 to a slightly less pathetic 9.84. Every point matters!

    Anyway, any thoughts on Slugging Efficiency Brett?

    Edit: Email received from bb-ref

    Hi Randy,

    The change we made is that we now carry two digits in the database, so we round the yearly numbers, but add the more exact #'s for career totals.

    For example:
    Year In DB on page
    2001 4.34 4.3
    2002 2.44 2.4
    total 6.78 6.8 (but merely adding would give you 6.7 here)

    Best,

    Mike
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 04-11-2014 at 05:43 PM.
    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
    Brett, your inbox is full.

    Thanks for the explanation. Will have to edit all the players now...Tejada's pathetic career bWAA went from 9.58 to a slightly less pathetic 9.84. Every point matters!

    Anyway, any thoughts on Slugging Efficiency Brett?

    Edit: Email received from bb-ref

    Hi Randy,

    The change we made is that we now carry two digits in the database, so we round the yearly numbers, but add the more exact #'s for career totals.

    For example:
    Year In DB on page
    2001 4.34 4.3
    2002 2.44 2.4
    total 6.78 6.8 (but merely adding would give you 6.7 here)

    Best,

    Mike

    Yea that's the explanation I expected.

    I was thinking that slugging efficiency (TB/out) was nice, but you could also do TB per 27 outs.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett View Post
    Yea that's the explanation I expected.

    I was thinking that slugging efficiency (TB/out) was nice, but you could also do TB per 27 outs.
    Yeah, you called it.

    Not sure about per 27. I remember awhile back having a RC/27 discussion and it was said to be funky because players don't get 27 outs. Seems TB/27 would show something though.

    A couple questions.

    How do I put it into league context, using league SA? Multiply by league SA by 100 and divide that by 100? Or not lol.

    Griffey has a .712 SAeff and over his career, his leagues slugged .424 (.288 difference).

    Cobb has a .755 SAeff (3 points higher than Mays btw) and over his career, his leagues slugged .364 (.391 difference).

    Ideally, we would be able to get the leagues SAeff but don't think that's possible. Anyway, so I'm not sure what to do now with these numbers. If we multiply Griffey's .288 difference by 100 he's at 28.8. Maybe that's enough? SAeff of 28.8+?

    We could also do SAeff/650 PA over a career. Except wouldn't we use AB and probably 550 instead? If we divide that 28.8 by Griffey's career AB total, and multiply by 550, we get 1.61.

    For Cobb, we have 39.1 divided by his 11,434 AB, for a 1.88 total.

    Hmmm...doesn't seem like that difference is all that much compared to earlier seen numbers. Must be because Cobb had 1633 more AB? How do we account for THAT? Beside doing best five and best ten perhaps?

    Here's best five.

    Griffey -

    Top five TB seasons total 1955. He made 2205 outs in those seasons for an .886 SAeff.

    League SA in those seasons.

    97 - .425
    98 - .431
    93 - .410
    99 - .444
    96 - .443
    -----------
    -----.430

    .456 difference x 100 = 45.6 / 2947 AB in those seasons x 550 = 8.51 SAeff

    Cobb

    Top five TB seasons total 1624. He made 1797 outs in those seasons for an .904 SAeff.

    League SA in those seasons

    11 - .378
    17 - .330
    12 - .354
    21 - .419
    22 - .406
    ------------
    -----.377

    .527 difference x 100 = 52.7 / 2765 AB in those seasons x 550 = 10.48 SAeff

    Let's do Ballgame

    .923 career SAeff
    .409 league SA

    .514 difference. 51.4 / 7706 AB x 550 = 3.67

    His top five will be off the charts obviously.

    1728 TB and 1774 OUTS = .974 SAeff

    .403 league SA = .571 difference

    57.1 / 2623 AB x 550 = 11.97
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 04-12-2014 at 09:23 AM.
    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

  16. #16
    My "negative outs" approach regarding K and G[H]IDP numbers for each batter, relative to all his PA, AB and total outs, will not be so refined as to pitcher-batter handedness, fly ball/ground ball propensities or type of batted ball that was converted into a double play or triple play.

    That, on its face, may at first seem an open invitations to futility; but, as I see it, the bottom line will depend on a correlation among all bases collected on the + side of the ledger and all escalated out negative impacts on the run scoring machinery regardless of the luck or breaks involved in play execution, or the positive attributes of a K that makes the pitcher work harder.

    I am approaching this for the period 1901 - present. If I find anything worth while, I'll post it eventually. If not, I'll post that ... as a public confession of sorts ... and as a public safety announcement so others can avoid the quicksand pit I eagerly ran into.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by leewileyfan View Post
    My "negative outs" approach regarding K and G[H]IDP numbers for each batter, relative to all his PA, AB and total outs, will not be so refined as to pitcher-batter handedness, fly ball/ground ball propensities or type of batted ball that was converted into a double play or triple play.

    That, on its face, may at first seem an open invitations to futility; but, as I see it, the bottom line will depend on a correlation among all bases collected on the + side of the ledger and all escalated out negative impacts on the run scoring machinery regardless of the luck or breaks involved in play execution, or the positive attributes of a K that makes the pitcher work harder.

    I am approaching this for the period 1901 - present. If I find anything worth while, I'll post it eventually. If not, I'll post that ... as a public confession of sorts ... and as a public safety announcement so others can avoid the quicksand pit I eagerly ran into.
    Sounds good. I love that last line!

    Before I enter EL REINO DE ARENAS MOVEDIZAS, I'm waiting to hear back on whether my last post was done properly, and if it's something worth replacing tOPS+ in my chart.
    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

  18. #18
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    Who was a more efficient slugger between Ken Griffey Jr and Sam Crawford?

    Griffey slugged 86 points higher, hit 533 more homers and 66 more doubles, but Crawford had 271 more triples.

    Raw slugging efficiency (TB/OUTS) shows junior to be ahead .712 to .628.

    Interestingly enough, when you factor in Junior's league slugged .424 and Crawford's .340, their difference is exactly the same, .288 above league.

    Even a step further, dividing each ones 28.8 by their individual AB totals and multiplying by 550, Crawford eeks out the victory 1.65 to 1.61.

    Doing a couple other guys, Piazza and Mantle are dead even at 2.56. Never would have expected that. Especially from a catcher whose league slugged .420 and Mantle's slugged just .387. Piazza was a flat out stud!
    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

  19. #19
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    -----------------------------------
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 07-21-2014 at 05:48 PM.
    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

  20. #20
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    Hey Ubi, how do you post an Excel file, like you did in Historic Game Logs thread?

    Nevermind, think I just figured it out. Has to be as attachment...our old friend, the paperclip.

    So here are AL/NL league SAeff numbers through '46, TB/PUT OUTS. This will go a long ways towards making a better relative SAeff stat. If there's any volunteers to take the file and do a couple decades, that would be awesome..if not, I'll finish it.

    Updated through 1977.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 04-22-2014 at 03:34 PM.
    "By common consent, Ruth was the hardest hitter of history; a fine fielder, if not a finished one; an inspired base runner, seeming to do the right thing without thinking. He had the most perfect co-ordination of any human animal I ever knew." - Hugh Fullerton, 1936 (Chicago sports writer, 1893-1930's)

    ROY / ERA+ Title / Cy Young / WS MVP / HR Title / Gold Glove / Comeback POY / BA Title / MVP / All Star / HOF

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