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Thread: 2016-17 Mets Off-Season Thread

  1. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    Could they have acquired a star C? Lucroy. They wanted him at the trade deadline. Again, what do you think they would have needed to give up to get him? They made the decision to give darnaud one more chance to be the player the scouts think he can be. Will he? I do not know but to dump him for nothing and for him to blossom with another team would be a big mistake. Lucroy will also be a FA after this season.
    I agreed with everything else you had posted, but my being the first member on here to point out flaws in the 'next Bench/Piazza/Fisk/Munson' I would like to make a few points.

    First, which scouts are we talking about? The Phillies, who drafted him at age 18 but were willing to give up on him at 21? Toronto? Who looked at him for a couple of injury filled seasons and decided he wasn't going to be that guy behind the plate? Or the Mets who hyped him and now at the age of 28 we are supposed to believe he is ready to burst out?

    Of course, there is always the chance that he hits 45 homers and drives in 148 runs like Johnny Bench did, or hit 40 homers and 124 ribbies that Piazza did TWICE.

    However, there are 3 things that come to my mind with d'Arnaud.
    1. The Mets tried to trade him for Lucroy and were rejected. They were willing to give up TDA and a player, but never specified which player. They were rejected.
    2. The Mets put Travis on waivers. That alone isn't unusual , since it often happens when teams try to trade someone late in the season and they have the choice to revoke the waiver if they don't get the right offer. Any team , form worst to best can claim the player on waivers. The issue for me is that not one single team claimed d'Arnaud. Not one. Why ? Nobody in either league could have used him even as a back up. The Mets put TDA on waivers on August 9th, 2016.

    NY Daily News 8/9/16 : The Mets had made d’Arnaud available in their talks with the Brewers about All-Star catcher Jonathan Lucroy last month. The Mets pressed hard on that deal, but did not have the prospects to pull it off

    Waiver trades are more difficult because they depend on standings in the league and whether the player’s team really wants to go through with parting ways, but the Mets have had success with waiver trades in the past. Last season, they got Addison Reed in a waiver-wire trade with the Diamondbacks for two minor leaguers on Aug. 30. After the non-waiver trade deadline, teams must pass their players through waivers and any team may claim them. If a player is claimed, the team can work out a trade or revoke the waivers or retain the player or let the claiming team take the player on the current contract. If more than one team claims a player, the team with the weakest record in the same league gets priority. If multiple teams from the other league claim him, the team with the worse record gets preference

    3. This is a point that the media seems to let slide. The ace of the Mets staff , Syndergaard, feels more comfortable with Rivera behind the plate. 3 weeks ago, Terry Collins said this; "“Coming out of the gate, if Travis is our number 1 guy, then he’s going to catch, but you might see Renee catching Noah, if that’s what makes him the most comfortable,” . What??? While d'Arnaud has shown when healthy he can hit , he has never shown he is a good defensive catcher. While that rambling idiot Gary Cohen talks about how "great Travis is at framing pitches" base runners run wild, balls in the dirt get past him, and the ace of the staff doesn't want him 'framing pitches' for him. By the way, do MLB umpires somehow get mesmerized when TDA is framing these pitches and everything becomes a strike ? Just wondering.


    So if TDA puts up Piazza/ Bench numbers he will prove me wrong. Until then, I am no fan of the 'man of glass'.

  2. #1122
    Quote Originally Posted by brooklynboy View Post
    Just out of curiosity, do you have last years SI predictions?
    They were half right. Predicted a Cubs-Rangers World Series.

  3. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    I agreed with everything else you had posted, but my being the first member on here to point out flaws in the 'next Bench/Piazza/Fisk/Munson' I would like to make a few points.

    First, which scouts are we talking about? The Phillies, who drafted him at age 18 but were willing to give up on him at 21? Toronto? Who looked at him for a couple of injury filled seasons and decided he wasn't going to be that guy behind the plate? Or the Mets who hyped him and now at the age of 28 we are supposed to believe he is ready to burst out?

    Of course, there is always the chance that he hits 45 homers and drives in 148 runs like Johnny Bench did, or hit 40 homers and 124 ribbies that Piazza did TWICE.

    However, there are 3 things that come to my mind with d'Arnaud.
    1. The Mets tried to trade him for Lucroy and were rejected. They were willing to give up TDA and a player, but never specified which player. They were rejected.
    2. The Mets put Travis on waivers. That alone isn't unusual , since it often happens when teams try to trade someone late in the season and they have the choice to revoke the waiver if they don't get the right offer. Any team , form worst to best can claim the player on waivers. The issue for me is that not one single team claimed d'Arnaud. Not one. Why ? Nobody in either league could have used him even as a back up. The Mets put TDA on waivers on August 9th, 2016.

    NY Daily News 8/9/16 : The Mets had made d’Arnaud available in their talks with the Brewers about All-Star catcher Jonathan Lucroy last month. The Mets pressed hard on that deal, but did not have the prospects to pull it off

    Waiver trades are more difficult because they depend on standings in the league and whether the player’s team really wants to go through with parting ways, but the Mets have had success with waiver trades in the past. Last season, they got Addison Reed in a waiver-wire trade with the Diamondbacks for two minor leaguers on Aug. 30. After the non-waiver trade deadline, teams must pass their players through waivers and any team may claim them. If a player is claimed, the team can work out a trade or revoke the waivers or retain the player or let the claiming team take the player on the current contract. If more than one team claims a player, the team with the weakest record in the same league gets priority. If multiple teams from the other league claim him, the team with the worse record gets preference

    3. This is a point that the media seems to let slide. The ace of the Mets staff , Syndergaard, feels more comfortable with Rivera behind the plate. 3 weeks ago, Terry Collins said this; "“Coming out of the gate, if Travis is our number 1 guy, then he’s going to catch, but you might see Renee catching Noah, if that’s what makes him the most comfortable,” . What??? While d'Arnaud has shown when healthy he can hit , he has never shown he is a good defensive catcher. While that rambling idiot Gary Cohen talks about how "great Travis is at framing pitches" base runners run wild, balls in the dirt get past him, and the ace of the staff doesn't want him 'framing pitches' for him. By the way, do MLB umpires somehow get mesmerized when TDA is framing these pitches and everything becomes a strike ? Just wondering.


    So if TDA puts up Piazza/ Bench numbers he will prove me wrong. Until then, I am no fan of the 'man of glass'.
    I highly doubt he will ever put up Bench/Piazza numbers. I would be happy with John Stearn numbers and that may never happen either. It is a make or break year for him so if he doesn't turn himself into a decent ML catcher I would expect the team to be looking for a Catcher at the trade deadline or in midseason. Not a lot of talent at the Catcher position.

    I am glad someone agrees with MOST of my comments or at least sees the logic into why they did/did not make moves. I was starting to think I was losing my mind!!

  4. #1124
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    I highly doubt he will ever put up Bench/Piazza numbers. I would be happy with John Stearn numbers and that may never happen either. It is a make or break year for him so if he doesn't turn himself into a decent ML catcher I would expect the team to be looking for a Catcher at the trade deadline or in midseason. Not a lot of talent at the Catcher position.

    I am glad someone agrees with MOST of my comments or at least sees the logic into why they did/did not make moves. I was starting to think I was losing my mind!!
    Two wrongs don't make a right you know. LOL.. Just kidding

    Different views are ok to have. Makes it interesting.

    The catching position has been an abyss for the team since Piazza left. The only thing I don't like about rolling the dice again on dArnaud is the position the team is in. If they weren't in a position to win, and/or didn't have below average offense I would be ok with it. Right now its just another position that is up in the air.

    dArnaud falls into the IF category as do many of the other Met hitters. For a team that should be in the hunt they have too many ifs across the field. I have not even mentioned that his defense is also lacking

  5. #1125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    Two wrongs don't make a right you know. LOL.. Just kidding

    Different views are ok to have. Makes it interesting.

    The catching position has been an abyss for the team since Piazza left. The only thing I don't like about rolling the dice again on dArnaud is the position the team is in. If they weren't in a position to win, and/or didn't have below average offense I would be ok with it. Right now its just another position that is up in the air.

    dArnaud falls into the IF category as do many of the other Met hitters. For a team that should be in the hunt they have too many ifs across the field. I have not even mentioned that his defense is also lacking
    That is true. I see your point on dArnaud but sometimes the reality of the situation is that there are no better options at the time. If Milwaukee didn't like what the Mets had not much you can do. Maybe Alderson should have stamped his feet and yelled to anyone willing to listen that it wasn't fair that a New York based team can't get a good catcher!! LOL.

  6. #1126
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    That is true. I see your point on dArnaud but sometimes the reality of the situation is that there are no better options at the time. If Milwaukee didn't like what the Mets had not much you can do. Maybe Alderson should have stamped his feet and yelled to anyone willing to listen that it wasn't fair that a New York based team can't get a good catcher!! LOL.
    Well based upon their lineup Alderson would have done a lot of foot stomping.

  7. #1127
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    I highly doubt he will ever put up Bench/Piazza numbers. I would be happy with John Stearn numbers and that may never happen either. It is a make or break year for him so if he doesn't turn himself into a decent ML catcher I would expect the team to be looking for a Catcher at the trade deadline or in midseason. Not a lot of talent at the Catcher position.

    I am glad someone agrees with MOST of my comments or at least sees the logic into why they did/did not make moves. I was starting to think I was losing my mind!!
    I think you are on to something. When Stearns was 28, offensively he was done. He turned 28 on 8/21/79; in the 5 seasons after he turned 28, he hit exactly 5 hrs 1980-1984 and was hurt every season. He was basically finished by his 29th birthday.

    Of course, back on June 1978 Dave Parker tried to run Stearns over, and the Dude held his ground and Parker got knocked out with a broken jaw. He had to wear a goalie mask for a year. If that was TDA, the chalk lines would still be there around his body.

    Parker later tried that stunt with future Met Gary Carter. The following April, when Parker was still wearing the helmet/mask rig, he won a game by knocking the ball out of Expos catcher Gary Carter's glove at home plate. "Afterward," reported Sports Illustrated, "Parker claimed Carter had tried to hurt him by pouncing on him, shin guards first. Carter, who said he was merely trying to control the relay throw, injudiciously replied, 'Tell Parker to take off his helmet, and I'll ram the ball down his throat.'"

    Again, I can't picture the Man of Glass saying or doing anything like Carter. Heck, I went to a Mets game on 4/11/79 (school was closed for Holy Week) where Carter tried to score but Elliot Maddox gunned him down at the plate, and after the play Stearns felt Carter threw an elbow - and the fight was on. Not a typical baseball fight, but the main event where Carter and Stearns were both ejected. Again, if TDA messed with either of those two, season ending DL !

  8. #1128
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    I think you are on to something. When Stearns was 28, offensively he was done. He turned 28 on 8/21/79; in the 5 seasons after he turned 28, he hit exactly 5 hrs 1980-1984 and was hurt every season. He was basically finished by his 29th birthday.

    Of course, back on June 1978 Dave Parker tried to run Stearns over, and the Dude held his ground and Parker got knocked out with a broken jaw. He had to wear a goalie mask for a year. If that was TDA, the chalk lines would still be there around his body.

    Parker later tried that stunt with future Met Gary Carter. The following April, when Parker was still wearing the helmet/mask rig, he won a game by knocking the ball out of Expos catcher Gary Carter's glove at home plate. "Afterward," reported Sports Illustrated, "Parker claimed Carter had tried to hurt him by pouncing on him, shin guards first. Carter, who said he was merely trying to control the relay throw, injudiciously replied, 'Tell Parker to take off his helmet, and I'll ram the ball down his throat.'"

    Again, I can't picture the Man of Glass saying or doing anything like Carter. Heck, I went to a Mets game on 4/11/79 (school was closed for Holy Week) where Carter tried to score but Elliot Maddox gunned him down at the plate, and after the play Stearns felt Carter threw an elbow - and the fight was on. Not a typical baseball fight, but the main event where Carter and Stearns were both ejected. Again, if TDA messed with either of those two, season ending DL !
    Yep, I think those days are over forever. Stearns was a tough ******* but injuries ruined what could have been a pretty good career.

  9. #1129
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    I wouldn't be surprised if Wheeler and Harvey stay back in PSL for extra work. Wheeler is a given, but I think it would help Harvey also. I would take a rotation of the five guys below for the months of April and May.
    Noah
    degrom
    Matz
    Gzellman
    Lugo

  10. #1130
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    I think you are on to something. When Stearns was 28, offensively he was done. He turned 28 on 8/21/79; in the 5 seasons after he turned 28, he hit exactly 5 hrs 1980-1984 and was hurt every season. He was basically finished by his 29th birthday.

    Of course, back on June 1978 Dave Parker tried to run Stearns over, and the Dude held his ground and Parker got knocked out with a broken jaw. He had to wear a goalie mask for a year. If that was TDA, the chalk lines would still be there around his body.

    Parker later tried that stunt with future Met Gary Carter. The following April, when Parker was still wearing the helmet/mask rig, he won a game by knocking the ball out of Expos catcher Gary Carter's glove at home plate. "Afterward," reported Sports Illustrated, "Parker claimed Carter had tried to hurt him by pouncing on him, shin guards first. Carter, who said he was merely trying to control the relay throw, injudiciously replied, 'Tell Parker to take off his helmet, and I'll ram the ball down his throat.'"

    Again, I can't picture the Man of Glass saying or doing anything like Carter. Heck, I went to a Mets game on 4/11/79 (school was closed for Holy Week) where Carter tried to score but Elliot Maddox gunned him down at the plate, and after the play Stearns felt Carter threw an elbow - and the fight was on. Not a typical baseball fight, but the main event where Carter and Stearns were both ejected. Again, if TDA messed with either of those two, season ending DL !
    Hey Mandrake. How goes it?

    I am not sure what the point is. TDA is not Gary Carter? Carter is a HOF catcher....TDA is barely making a roster. John Stearns was a pretty tough guy but it was a different era.

    There were some on this forum that jumped all over TDA before they knew what he looked like and labeled him as the next ................fill in the blank. It somehow made him a target.

    As much as I don't like TDA's game....I think as fans we have to hope he does well because like it or not he is the catcher right now. If he hits its only a benefit to the Mets.

  11. #1131
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if Wheeler and Harvey stay back in PSL for extra work. Wheeler is a given, but I think it would help Harvey also. I would take a rotation of the five guys below for the months of April and May.
    Noah
    degrom
    Matz
    Gzellman
    Lugo
    I agree. Harvey & Wheeler need to stay back as of right now.

    I still like the rotation. Lugo really showed something during the WBC. If he is your #5 its not the worst thing.

  12. #1132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    I agree. Harvey & Wheeler need to stay back as of right now.

    I still like the rotation. Lugo really showed something during the WBC. If he is your #5 its not the worst thing.
    A coworker friend of mine goes to spring training every year and she took her family to 3 games including the game Tebow got 2 hits and made a great catch, and the next game where the Mets beat the Cardinals 16-2. Anyway she shared some of her observations as a fan. (not mine)

    David Wright. he might be hurt and still isn't throwing, but he is still incredibly nice to the fans. Will always take time for pictures and autographs . Just a classy person.

    Neil Walker, also very accommodating to fans; wasn't shy about talking to fans about his injury and surgery. He's a guy you root for to come back and do well.

    Matt Harvey: for the first time she can recall, Harvey is really nice to fans. Totally different guy from when she met him the past few spring camps. No ego, chatted about anything to anyone. Signing anything, obliging the selfies. Another person you want to root for.

    Zack Wheeler: not much interaction with fans. Most people are worried about him not throwing for 2 1/2 years. Not saying he was rude or anything like that, just seems in his own world right now.

    Noah Syndergaard: he was the one downer . Said he seems to be what Harvey was 3-4 years ago...a star who seemed a bit abrupt for the first spring training she can recall.

  13. #1133
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    A coworker friend of mine goes to spring training every year and she took her family to 3 games including the game Tebow got 2 hits and made a great catch, and the next game where the Mets beat the Cardinals 16-2. Anyway she shared some of her observations as a fan. (not mine)

    David Wright. he might be hurt and still isn't throwing, but he is still incredibly nice to the fans. Will always take time for pictures and autographs . Just a classy person.

    Neil Walker, also very accommodating to fans; wasn't shy about talking to fans about his injury and surgery. He's a guy you root for to come back and do well.

    Matt Harvey: for the first time she can recall, Harvey is really nice to fans. Totally different guy from when she met him the past few spring camps. No ego, chatted about anything to anyone. Signing anything, obliging the selfies. Another person you want to root for.

    Zack Wheeler: not much interaction with fans. Most people are worried about him not throwing for 2 1/2 years. Not saying he was rude or anything like that, just seems in his own world right now.

    Noah Syndergaard: he was the one downer . Said he seems to be what Harvey was 3-4 years ago...a star who seemed a bit abrupt for the first spring training she can recall.
    I am sure Noah is in extremely high demand. He is the only one fans are calling for at this point. Maybe not only but first by a wide margin.

    Who else are they going to ask for? Which gets back to my other point. Noah is the star of the team.....the only upper end almost super star status. Almost. I can see the attention getting old. No excuse and he may have signed his autograph 1000x that day before your friend saw him.

    On another note I heard today Wright still cant throw...nor do they know how much he can throw when he starts throwing. If I hear one more time "if the Mets can get 130 games out of him" ......... uuuugghhh. He cant throw.....he cant throw a baseball. Lets let that sink in for a minute.

  14. #1134
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    Stearns was a great athlete and a favorite. I loved his hard nosed style. He was highly touted; drafted ahead of Dave Winfield in both MLB and the NFL. Stearns was a cornerback, as I recall. Carter had been recruited to be UCLA's starting quarterback. Parker was unaware both those fellows knew about tackling and hard contact.

    It's a shame Stearns didn't last into the Championship era. He deserved to play on a winning team.

    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    That is true. I see your point on dArnaud but sometimes the reality of the situation is that there are no better options at the time. If Milwaukee didn't like what the Mets had not much you can do. Maybe Alderson should have stamped his feet and yelled to anyone willing to listen that it wasn't fair that a New York based team can't get a good catcher!! LOL.
    Milwaukee would have traded Lucroy for Conforto or Wheeler. The Mets should have made that trade.

    The big issue with d'Arnaud is health.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    A coworker friend of mine goes to spring training every year and she took her family to 3 games including the game Tebow got 2 hits and made a great catch, and the next game where the Mets beat the Cardinals 16-2. Anyway she shared some of her observations as a fan. (not mine)

    David Wright. he might be hurt and still isn't throwing, but he is still incredibly nice to the fans. Will always take time for pictures and autographs . Just a classy person.

    Neil Walker, also very accommodating to fans; wasn't shy about talking to fans about his injury and surgery. He's a guy you root for to come back and do well.

    Matt Harvey: for the first time she can recall, Harvey is really nice to fans. Totally different guy from when she met him the past few spring camps. No ego, chatted about anything to anyone. Signing anything, obliging the selfies. Another person you want to root for.

    Zack Wheeler: not much interaction with fans. Most people are worried about him not throwing for 2 1/2 years. Not saying he was rude or anything like that, just seems in his own world right now.

    Noah Syndergaard: he was the one downer . Said he seems to be what Harvey was 3-4 years ago...a star who seemed a bit abrupt for the first spring training she can recall.
    Wright was always said to be the nicest guy you could imagine.

    Maybe Harvey's humbling misfortune has grounded him. It's a rare person that can stay grounded in the midst of great success; especially at a young age. I hope he recovers and does well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    I am sure Noah is in extremely high demand. He is the only one fans are calling for at this point. Maybe not only but first by a wide margin.

    Who else are they going to ask for? Which gets back to my other point. Noah is the star of the team.....the only upper end almost super star status. Almost. I can see the attention getting old. No excuse and he may have signed his autograph 1000x that day before your friend saw him.

    On another note I heard today Wright still cant throw...nor do they know how much he can throw when he starts throwing. If I hear one more time "if the Mets can get 130 games out of him" ......... uuuugghhh. He cant throw.....he cant throw a baseball. Lets let that sink in for a minute.
    No reason not to have patience with Wright. Nobody reasonably expected much playing time from him.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    I am sure Noah is in extremely high demand. He is the only one fans are calling for at this point. Maybe not only but first by a wide margin.

    Who else are they going to ask for? Which gets back to my other point. Noah is the star of the team.....the only upper end almost super star status. Almost. I can see the attention getting old. No excuse and he may have signed his autograph 1000x that day before your friend saw him.

    On another note I heard today Wright still cant throw...nor do they know how much he can throw when he starts throwing. If I hear one more time "if the Mets can get 130 games out of him" ......... uuuugghhh. He cant throw.....he cant throw a baseball. Lets let that sink in for a minute.
    I think most if not all Met fans love Wright. I think those who expect 130 games out of him (not sure who they are but why kill the story) are thinking with their hearts, not their heads). Wright is pretty much finished. I hope he can go out with the same class he has displayed since his 1st day on the job. He deserves it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    Stearns was a great athlete and a favorite. I loved his hard nosed style. He was highly touted; drafted ahead of Dave Winfield in both MLB and the NFL. Stearns was a cornerback, as I recall. Carter had been recruited to be UCLA's starting quarterback. Parker was unaware both those fellows knew about tackling and hard contact.

    It's a shame Stearns didn't last into the Championship era. He deserved to play on a winning team.



    Milwaukee would have traded Lucroy for Conforto or Wheeler. The Mets should have made that trade.

    The big issue with d'Arnaud is health.



    Wright was always said to be the nicest guy you could imagine.

    Maybe Harvey's humbling misfortune has grounded him. It's a rare person that can stay grounded in the midst of great success; especially at a young age. I hope he recovers and does well.




    No reason not to have patience with Wright. Nobody reasonably expected much playing time from him.
    If that is all the Brewers wanted the Mets would have been crazy not to do it. I would be very surprised if that's all they wanted. Who knows.

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    An unfortunate epilogue, perhaps, to Parker and his home plate collisions:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-baseball-past

    Though Stearns and Carter were Mets, Parker was a competitor. Another great Mets moment involving him was when he dropped the third out in the 9th inning in the Knight/Davis game. That nonwithstanding, he was probably the best player in baseball in his prime.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    An unfortunate epilogue, perhaps, to Parker and his home plate collisions:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-baseball-past

    Though Stearns and Carter were Mets, Parker was a competitor. Another great Mets moment involving him was when he dropped the third out in the 9th inning in the Knight/Davis game. That nonwithstanding, he was probably the best player in baseball in his prime.
    Thanks for sharing that Goose. Although I never rooted for Parker as a player it was obvious how talented he was. I am not sure they will be able to link his Parkinson's to playing baseball but head injuries have become the big thing in sports. Ask Parker if he would do it all again and I think you would get a quick "yes". Ask a guy whose head rattles in a cab of a diesel truck for 10 hours a day if they would want to be Parker and I think you would also get a quick "yes".

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    Even the most DEDICATED Mets fan who thinks David can give us 130 games this years is out there somewhere..

    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    I think most if not all Met fans love Wright. I think those who expect 130 games out of him (not sure who they are but why kill the story) are thinking with their hearts, not their heads). Wright is pretty much finished. I hope he can go out with the same class he has displayed since his 1st day on the job. He deserves it.
    North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla

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    The big issue with d"Arnaud at the moment appears to be his inability to throw anybody out..And I agree with you, the Brewers wouldn't be that naive..

    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    If that is all the Brewers wanted the Mets would have been crazy not to do it. I would be very surprised if that's all they wanted. Who knows.
    North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla

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