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Thread: Best Metrics for Measuring Performance/Value

  1. #1

    Best Metrics for Measuring Performance/Value

    What are the best available metrics for measuring performance/value. What are their individual strengths and weaknesses? Which do you favor and why? Do you use a mix or a composite number between multiple metrics (for WAR, for defense, etc.)? What's missing from the best available metrics and how do we get there from here?

    Feel free to break this down into distinct areas of hitting, pitching, baserunning, fielding and, of course, overall - "uber" - metrics. Curious what the consensus is here and, more importantly, by sharing perhaps some people can learn about new metrics they were previously unaware of.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Harris View Post
    What are the best available metrics for measuring performance/value. What are their individual strengths and weaknesses? Which do you favor and why? Do you use a mix or a composite number between multiple metrics (for WAR, for defense, etc.)? What's missing from the best available metrics and how do we get there from here?

    Feel free to break this down into distinct areas of hitting, pitching, baserunning, fielding and, of course, overall - "uber" - metrics. Curious what the consensus is here and, more importantly, by sharing perhaps some people can learn about new metrics they were previously unaware of.

    I'm not a "fan" of Fangraphs Pitching WAR at all due to its reliance on FIP. I believe a good pitcher can influence the game a lot more than FIP allows for.

    One stat that I'm looking at in a general sense are players HR to fly ball to line drive to ground ball ratios. Naturally this only applies to the eras where we have this data (aka now). I'm trying to see if there are any links to players who I think have more talent than they are getting results from, and vice versa. I don't know if there are any studies on this, but looking at pure ratios only. Naturally a stick figure like a Vince Coleman would be worthless with tons of fly, which is why the homers are thrown in there.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toledo Inquisition View Post
    I'm not a "fan" of Fangraphs Pitching WAR at all due to its reliance on FIP. I believe a good pitcher can influence the game a lot more than FIP allows for.
    I'm not a fan of their FIP based WAR either, but I actually prefer their ERA- metric instead of the more commonly used ERA+, as I just think it's a more accurate/better rate metric when looking at pitcher performance.

    I also use the customized WAR/WAA metric at The Baseball Gauge which combines DRA based Baseball Gauge WAR/WAA and TZ based BBRef WAR/WAA. IMO its an especially useful metric for pre-1950 players (those who played before the play-by-play era).

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toledo Inquisition View Post
    I'm not a "fan" of Fangraphs Pitching WAR at all due to its reliance on FIP. I believe a good pitcher can influence the game a lot more than FIP allows for.
    .
    Yes - many pitchers have legit skill outside of FIP. But it still takes 6-8 years for r=.5 (half noise to signal). If you want to know how good Synagard will be next year - FIP is the way to go. If you want to know how good Matt Harvey has been in his career - FIP is the way to go. If you want to know how good Zach Grienke has been for his career - use an RA based metric for sure.

    I mean - we know FIP works most of the time for most pitchers - it correlates TONS better year to year than ERA.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by layson27 View Post
    I'm not a fan of their FIP based WAR either, but I actually prefer their ERA- metric instead of the more commonly used ERA+, as I just think it's a more accurate/better rate metric when looking at pitcher performance.

    I also use the customized WAR/WAA metric at The Baseball Gauge which combines DRA based Baseball Gauge WAR/WAA and TZ based BBRef WAR/WAA. IMO its an especially useful metric for pre-1950 players (those who played before the play-by-play era).
    Actually ERA - and ERA+ are exactly the same, just a different display.

    BTW regarding fWAR fangraphs now also offers a RA9 WAR (click on the button value on the player page or the leaderboard ).
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    Actually ERA - and ERA+ are exactly the same, just a different display.
    According to everything I've read, they are very similar but there is a difference. Plus ERA- just seems a little more intuitive, since lower is better.

    http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/201...s-vs-era-minus
    http://walksaber.blogspot.com/2010/0...ngs-about.html
    http://skykalkman.tumblr.com/post/53...-era-storified

    "ERA+...compares pitching performance (as judged by ERA) to the league average. But instead of telling you how much better (or worse) the pitcher was than the league average, this stat tells you how much better (or worse) the league was than the pitcher. It's not a big difference, but it is a difference."
    Last edited by layson27; 02-10-2017 at 07:02 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by layson27 View Post
    I'm not a fan of their FIP based WAR either, but I actually prefer their ERA- metric instead of the more commonly used ERA+, as I just think it's a more accurate/better rate metric when looking at pitcher performance.

    I also use the customized WAR/WAA metric at The Baseball Gauge which combines DRA based Baseball Gauge WAR/WAA and TZ based BBRef WAR/WAA. IMO its an especially useful metric for pre-1950 players (those who played before the play-by-play era).
    If you want to get a comparable ERA+ from bbref, you take RA9avg/RA9 BBRef adjusts for the batting of the specific teams and lineups that the pitcher faced, and adjusts out defense, but defense is not FIP driven.

    Ex. Dwight Gooden in '85 had a "environment" with an RA9avg of 4.19 and an RA of 1.66 for a DNRA++ of 252

    It DOES adjust for pitcher role. You can subtract the RA9 role from the RA9 avg if you want ERA+ versus ALL pitchers independent of their role.

    So for example you would take 4.19-0.14 to get 4.05 then divide that by 1.66 to get 244 (multiply by 100) if you want his RA+ without regard to role.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    Actually ERA - and ERA+ are exactly the same, just a different display.

    BTW regarding fWAR fangraphs now also offers a RA9 WAR (click on the button value on the player page or the leaderboard ).
    There is a problem with ERA+. The average of two ERA+ scores is not the composite ERA+. For example if a player has a 200 ERA+ for one season (200 IP) and 100 for the next season, their ERA+ is not (and should not) be 150. It will be 133. This is because the average of reciprocals is not the same as the reciprocal of averages. If instead we see that his RA- (I would prefer to call it relative RA) would be 0.50 for one season and 1.00 for another then the average of those (as well as the composite) would be 0.75. (which would correspond to an ERA+ of 133).

    I guess I would take RA9/RA9avg off of baseball reference to get relative RA for a pitcher. Take 1 minus that number to get the runs saved ratio. So say a guy has a 0.8 relative RA+, he would be saving 0.2 games worth of runs per game. Multiply that by innings and divide that by 9 to get games worth of runs saved. If you double that, you should get something that is very similar to WAA, though with one win being worth 2x the run environment.

    You could also find WAA by using a pythagorian estimate based on RA-. If a player has an RA- (or relative RA) or 0.8, their team (if average) would win 1/(1+.8^2) proportion of their "games" that he pitched. That would be 0.609. Multiply that by innings divided by 9 and then subtract 0.5xinnings/9 to find how many wins he netted his team.
    Last edited by brett; 02-10-2017 at 08:15 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett View Post
    There is a problem with ERA+. The average of two ERA+ scores is not the composite ERA+. For example if a player has a 200 ERA+ for one season (200 IP) and 100 for the next season, their ERA+ is not (and should not) be 150. It will be 133. This is because the average of reciprocals is not the same as the reciprocal of averages. If instead we see that his RA- (I would prefer to call it relative RA) would be 0.50 for one season and 1.00 for another then the average of those (as well as the composite) would be 0.75. (which would correspond to an ERA+ of 133).

    I guess I would take RA9/RA9avg off of baseball reference to get relative RA for a pitcher. Take 1 minus that number to get the runs saved ratio. So say a guy has a 0.8 relative RA+, he would be saving 0.2 games worth of runs per game. Multiply that by innings and divide that by 9 to get games worth of runs saved. If you double that, you should get something that is very similar to WAA, though with one win being worth 2x the run environment.

    You could also find WAA by using a pythagorian estimate based on RA-. If a player has an RA- (or relative RA) or 0.8, their team (if average) would win 1/(1+.8^2) proportion of their "games" that he pitched. That would be 0.609. Multiply that by innings divided by 9 and then subtract 0.5xinnings/9 to find how many wins he netted his team.

    Would you even want to average it though? All of the weights would be different, so wouldn't you want to just recalculate?
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sturg1dj View Post
    Would you even want to average it though? All of the weights would be different, so wouldn't you want to just recalculate?


    My point is that a 200 era+ is not twice as much run prevention as 150 compared to average. A 200 era+ is saving only 150% of the runs that a 150 would compared to average but it gives an impression that it is twice as far away from average.

  11. #11
    My issue with FIP is that it believed that a pitcher has 0 control over batted balls inside the park becoming hits or outs. Then, it made an exception for knuckleball pitchers stating that they could affect batted balls becoming outs (because in many cases, they did not strike out as many batters but did fool them enough to create weak-hit balls).

    If you make an exception for a type of pitch that fools batters enough, then you have to do the same for a good curve, a good slider, a good fork ball or split-finger, a good cutter, and just about every other pitch where a pitcher fools hitters rather than dominates them.

    Why is it that pitchers in the days of 3 to 4 K's a game and pitchers of today with 7 to 8 K's a game still end up giving up about the same amount of runs per game? They give up more homers today to offset the K's in some respect, but I would also say that fielders are more athletic today and can cover more ground than the fielder of 1925 or even 1975 (or at least their equipment and the grounds crews are better).

    I believe that fielding has a lot to do with how well a pitcher pitches. Mike Cuellar went from the awful fielding Astros to the great fielding Orioles, picking up Brooks Robinson and Mark Belanger for a left-handed pitcher. He went from 10 and 12 game winner to 20 game winner quickly. It did take his great repertoire of stuff that fooled hitters and knocked off their timing. He did not strike out a ton of batters, but I witnessed batters topping his screw ball into the ground and sending it to the left side of the field where two Orecks scooped them up and converted them into outs. The fielding was super important, but the pitcher had to induce the ball to be hit there.

    I say that if the FIP can account for one specific pitch being able to induce poorly hit balls, that other pitches that fool batters can as well.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wes_kahn View Post
    My issue with FIP is that it believed that a pitcher has 0 control over batted balls inside the park becoming hits or outs. Then, it made an exception for knuckleball pitchers stating that they could affect batted balls becoming outs (because in many cases, they did not strike out as many batters but did fool them enough to create weak-hit balls).

    If you make an exception for a type of pitch that fools batters enough, then you have to do the same for a good curve, a good slider, a good fork ball or split-finger, a good cutter, and just about every other pitch where a pitcher fools hitters rather than dominates them.

    Why is it that pitchers in the days of 3 to 4 K's a game and pitchers of today with 7 to 8 K's a game still end up giving up about the same amount of runs per game? They give up more homers today to offset the K's in some respect, but I would also say that fielders are more athletic today and can cover more ground than the fielder of 1925 or even 1975 (or at least their equipment and the grounds crews are better).

    I believe that fielding has a lot to do with how well a pitcher pitches. Mike Cuellar went from the awful fielding Astros to the great fielding Orioles, picking up Brooks Robinson and Mark Belanger for a left-handed pitcher. He went from 10 and 12 game winner to 20 game winner quickly. It did take his great repertoire of stuff that fooled hitters and knocked off their timing. He did not strike out a ton of batters, but I witnessed batters topping his screw ball into the ground and sending it to the left side of the field where two Orecks scooped them up and converted them into outs. The fielding was super important, but the pitcher had to induce the ball to be hit there.

    I say that if the FIP can account for one specific pitch being able to induce poorly hit balls, that other pitches that fool batters can as well.
    I don't think FIP adjusts for knucleball pitchers. V. McCraken found evidence for KB pitchers being FIP beaters before anyone else did anything else and made it known, but I don't think there is any adjustment in the actual formula.
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  13. #13
    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...rticleid=31324

    Baseball prospectus has updated its 2008 to present dra pitching metric.

    I wouldn't deem it best metrics for pre 2008, as Bothrops has pointed out flaws in the past, making jim palmer, tom glavine, Warren spahn, and Phil niekro look like chopped liver, while Frank Tanana, David wells, mickey lolich, and Javier Vazquez are hall level.

    Maybe this metric has good value for the past 10 years?
    Last edited by Jar of Flies; 03-14-2017 at 05:56 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
    How about the fact that at -170 relative runs, Sosa is the single worst (again, relative to low leverage) high leverage batter in MLB history.

    For WAR fans..if even HALF of those runs were his skillset/approach, Sosa looks like a VERY iffy HOFer. If 2/3 of those runs are his fault...he probably is not a HOFer.
    This comment inspired me to do some research.

    Below is a recap of the differences between Brun (Context Neutral) and RE24 (Context Dependent) run values, converted to wins (Bwin and REW), along with the "Clutch" figure that Bothrops mentions. I took an average of the two metrics for all players with > 60 RE24 playing 1950s to present and anyone that made my selected sample of the top ~1000 or so players (using mix of Baseball-Reference and Baseball Gauge WAR).

    Brun Clu Both
    REW tch Avg Player
    20.2 9.60 14.9 Pete*Rose*
    15.4 12.9 14.2 Nellie*Fox
    17.8 7.40 12.6 Billy*Williams
    23.9 0.90 12.4 Luis Aparicio
    15.7 7.80 11.8 Yogi*Berra
    14.4 7.30 10.8 Dave*Parker*
    15.3 5.40 10.4 Tim*Raines
    10.6 9.90 10.3 Tony*Gwynn
    20.2 0.10 10.2 Joe*Morgan
    14.0 6.10 10.1 Bert Campaneris
    14.8 4.90 9.85 Ozzie Smith
    14.9 4.30 9.60 Terry Pendleton
    16.8 2.20 9.50 Jimmy*Rollins*
    14.1 4.40 9.23 Bobby*Abreu*
    12.1 6.20 9.16 Mark*Grace*
    11.7 6.40 9.05 Garry Templeton
    10.3 7.80 9.05 Bill*Buckner*
    17.6 0.50 9.04 Vada*Pinson*
    9.40 8.40 8.90 Dick Groat
    11.8 6.00 8.90 Frank*McCormick*
    10.6 7.00 8.79 Ted*Simmons*
    12.5 4.70 8.58 Tony*Perez
    11.8 5.00 8.40 Maury Wills
    10.8 6.00 8.40 Dave Concepcion
    11.1 5.60 8.35 Willie*McCovey
    16.9 (0.4) 8.26 Lou*Brock
    14.6 1.90 8.25 Gus*Bell*
    12.2 4.30 8.24 Willie*Davis*
    8.86 7.50 8.18 Tommy*Davis*
    10.5 5.80 8.14 Vic*Wertz*
    11.7 4.50 8.11 Rickey*Henderson
    13.9 2.30 8.10 Marquis Grissom
    13.6 2.50 8.07 Johnny*Damon*
    14.9 1.20 8.05 Jim*Gilliam*
    11.4 4.40 7.90 Cesar*Tovar*
    9.31 6.40 7.86 Roberto*Clemente
    9.72 5.80 7.76 Ron*Fairly*
    7.80 7.20 7.50 Scott Fletcher
    10.0 5.00 7.49 Rod*Carew
    12.4 2.40 7.40 Willie*McGee*
    10.3 4.40 7.35 Johnny Edwards
    9.08 5.40 7.24 Ryan*Howard*
    11.8 2.60 7.19 Darrell*Evans*
    11.2 3.00 7.11 Steve*Garvey*
    10.8 3.40 7.10 Curt*Flood*
    11.4 2.50 6.96 Jose*Reyes*
    9.90 4.00 6.95 Jose*Cardenal*
    10.4 3.40 6.88 Tommy*Henrich*
    11.1 2.50 6.80 Joe*DiMaggio
    13.3 0.30 6.79 Carlos*Beltran*
    11.0 2.40 6.71 Eric*Davis*
    9.30 4.10 6.70 Jason*Kendall*
    6.31 6.90 6.61 Dan*Driessen*
    8.13 5.00 6.57 Orlando*Merced*
    11.6 1.30 6.46 Augie*Galan*
    8.40 4.50 6.45 Chris Speier
    9.79 3.00 6.40 Boog*Powell*
    13.2 (0.4) 6.39 Barry*Larkin
    16.5 (3.8) 6.36 Ryne*Sandberg
    7.63 5.00 6.32 Joe*Cunningham*
    6.88 5.70 6.29 Amos*Otis*
    8.29 4.20 6.25 Dixie*Walker*
    10.5 1.90 6.20 Edgar Renteria
    14.9 (2.7) 6.09 Craig*Biggio
    7.97 4.20 6.09 Keith*Hernandez*
    9.10 3.00 6.05 Jose*Cruz*
    10.4 1.70 6.04 Kenny*Lofton*
    10.8 1.10 5.94 Ted*Kluszewski*
    7.20 4.60 5.90 Willie*Montanez*
    9.66 2.10 5.88 Edgardo*Alfonzo*
    8.41 3.30 5.86 Dante*Bichette*
    5.50 6.20 5.85 Phil Garner
    9.09 2.50 5.80 Minnie*Minoso*
    7.24 4.30 5.77 Lou*Whitaker*
    9.70 1.80 5.75 Willie Wilson
    4.99 6.50 5.75 Eddie*Murray
    11.7 (0.3) 5.70 Mickey*Mantle
    8.60 2.80 5.70 Lonny*Frey*
    7.00 4.20 5.60 Darrell*Porter*
    7.74 3.40 5.57 Elmer*Valo*
    12.7 (1.6) 5.55 Willie*Mays
    7.40 3.70 5.55 Darin Erstad
    5.00 6.10 5.55 Lance Johnson
    6.70 4.20 5.45 Mickey*Rivers*
    5.67 5.20 5.44 Enos*Slaughter
    7.66 3.20 5.43 Tito*Francona*
    7.73 3.10 5.42 Jason*Giambi*
    9.90 0.90 5.40 Garry*Maddox*
    12.2 (1.4) 5.39 Chase*Utley*
    5.44 5.10 5.27 Adrian*Gonzalez*
    8.86 1.60 5.23 Bob*Skinner*
    8.62 1.80 5.21 Darren*Daulton*
    9.40 1.00 5.20 Bill Mazeroski
    4.46 5.90 5.18 Ichiro*Suzuki*
    9.50 0.80 5.15 Rafael*Furcal*
    11.1 (0.8) 5.15 Carl*Crawford*
    11.5 (1.2) 5.13 Bobby*Bonds*
    10.8 (0.6) 5.10 Bill*Bruton*
    4.70 5.40 5.05 Randy Winn
    8.47 1.60 5.04 Lance*Berkman*
    7.35 2.70 5.03 Chris*Chambliss*
    9.40 0.60 5.00 Don*Buford*
    12.1 (2.1) 5.00 Carl*Furillo*
    9.20 0.70 4.95 Juan*Samuel*
    12.3 (2.4) 4.95 Todd*Helton*
    11.3 (1.4) 4.93 Derek*Jeter*
    10.3 (0.5) 4.89 Johnny*Callison*
    4.70 5.00 4.85 Marcus*Giles*
    5.57 4.10 4.84 Bobby*Murcer*
    7.17 2.50 4.84 Bob*Watson*
    5.62 4.00 4.81 Billy*Herman
    6.14 3.30 4.72 Wally*Joyner*
    5.00 4.40 4.70 Omar Vizquel
    6.40 2.90 4.65 Angel*Pagan*
    10.3 (1.0) 4.63 Ken*Boyer*
    10.4 (1.2) 4.60 B.J.*Surhoff*
    6.29 2.90 4.60 Paul*Molitor
    5.08 4.10 4.59 Rusty*Greer*
    4.37 4.80 4.59 Orlando*Cepeda
    8.80 0.30 4.55 Carl*Everett*
    6.40 2.70 4.55 Jacoby*Ellsbury*
    9.40 (0.3) 4.55 Placido Polanco
    3.90 5.20 4.55 Bill Russell
    6.97 2.10 4.54 Sean*Casey*
    8.07 1.00 4.54 Aramis*Ramirez*
    2.87 6.10 4.49 George*Brett
    3.33 5.60 4.47 Roy*White*
    8.70 0.20 4.45 Tom*Herr*
    8.60 0.30 4.45 Willie*Kirkland*
    6.65 2.20 4.43 Rusty*Staub*
    6.30 2.50 4.40 Brett*Gardner*
    7.19 1.60 4.40 Von*Hayes*
    5.58 3.20 4.39 Harold*Baines*
    8.50 0.20 4.35 Tommy*Harper*
    7.28 1.40 4.34 Cesar*Cedeno*
    7.86 0.80 4.33 Michael*Young*
    5.16 3.50 4.33 Will*Clark*
    8.65 (0.1) 4.28 Roberto*Alomar
    5.72 2.80 4.26 Manny*Mota*
    8.91 (0.4) 4.26 Dick*McAuliffe*
    12.5 (4.0) 4.26 Duke*Snider
    1.48 7.00 4.24 Gus*Suhr*
    11.0 (2.5) 4.23 Al*Kaline
    10.7 (2.4) 4.17 Carl*Yastrzemski
    2.90 5.40 4.15 Yadier Molina
    6.20 2.10 4.15 Tony*Fernandez*
    3.66 4.60 4.13 Mike*Ivie*
    5.53 2.70 4.12 Matt*Lawton*
    4.73 3.50 4.12 Toby*Harrah*
    5.90 2.30 4.10 Bip*Roberts*
    8.27 (0.1) 4.09 Norm*Siebern*
    4.50 3.60 4.05 Pete*Reiser*
    4.29 3.80 4.05 Yoenis*Cespedes*
    4.19 3.90 4.05 Jim*Northrup*
    4.41 3.60 4.01 Kirby*Puckett
    2.40 5.60 4.00 Eric*Hosmer*
    4.76 3.20 3.98 Gregg*Jefferies*
    7.60 0.30 3.95 Brandon Phillips
    6.30 1.60 3.95 Ron*LeFlore*
    5.65 2.20 3.93 Tony*Phillips*
    10.1 (2.2) 3.93 Eddie*Mathews
    8.14 (0.3) 3.92 Bruce*Campbell*
    11.0 (3.3) 3.87 Gil*Hodges*
    5.63 2.10 3.87 Pat*Kelly*
    5.41 2.30 3.86 Dolph*Camilli*
    5.70 2.00 3.85 Mark*Loretta*
    6.39 1.30 3.85 Joe*Torre
    7.26 0.40 3.83 J.T.*Snow*
    4.14 3.50 3.82 Joe*Rudi*
    8.73 (1.1) 3.82 Roger*Maris*
    3.72 3.90 3.81 Kent*Hrbek*
    4.50 3.10 3.80 Carlos*May*
    10.8 (3.2) 3.79 Dale*Murphy*
    10.1 (2.6) 3.75 Andres*Galarraga*
    6.50 1.00 3.75 Tim*McCarver*
    5.10 2.40 3.75 Jay*Johnstone*
    7.20 0.30 3.75 Tim*Wallach*
    6.87 0.60 3.74 Kevin*McReynolds*
    8.47 (1.0) 3.74 Gene*Woodling*
    4.93 2.50 3.72 Johnny*Pesky*
    3.93 3.50 3.72 Russell*Martin*
    4.12 3.30 3.71 Chris*Davis*
    7.10 0.30 3.70 Jeff*Blauser*
    4.60 2.80 3.70 Hector*Lopez*
    5.36 2.00 3.68 Dusty*Baker*
    6.32 1.00 3.66 Roy*Sievers*
    8.70 (1.4) 3.65 Shane*Victorino*
    6.11 1.10 3.61 Sam*West*
    7.00 0.20 3.60 Denard*Span*
    4.42 2.70 3.56 Gil*McDougald*
    5.40 1.70 3.55 Jerry*Lynch*
    3.60 3.50 3.55 Russell Martin
    6.33 0.60 3.47 Al*Oliver*
    9.10 (2.2) 3.45 Devon White
    5.54 1.30 3.42 Jose*Vidro*
    6.02 0.80 3.41 Bill*Madlock*
    2.22 4.60 3.41 Don*Lock*
    4.41 2.40 3.41 Gary*Redus*
    9.10 (2.3) 3.40 Bill*White*
    4.40 2.40 3.40 Matty*Alou*
    4.80 1.90 3.35 Jose Valentin
    4.28 2.40 3.34 Lee*Mazzilli*
    4.72 1.90 3.31 Floyd*Robinson*
    2.20 4.40 3.30 Ken McMullen
    9.40 (2.8) 3.30 Willie*Stargell
    6.06 0.50 3.28 Lee*Maye*
    5.43 1.10 3.27 Hunter*Pence*
    6.00 0.50 3.25 Garret*Anderson*
    4.78 1.70 3.24 Mickey*Vernon*
    3.63 2.80 3.22 Phil*Cavarretta*
    7.02 (0.6) 3.21 Felipe*Alou*
    3.60 2.80 3.20 Brian Roberts
    5.76 0.60 3.18 Lenny*Dykstra*
    6.10 0.20 3.15 Kelly*Johnson*
    4.50 1.80 3.15 Joe*Foy*
    1.03 5.20 3.12 Ben*Oglivie*
    3.13 3.10 3.12 Matt*Carpenter*
    2.92 3.30 3.11 Michael*Brantley*
    7.00 (0.8) 3.10 Derek*Bell*
    8.40 (2.2) 3.10 Matt*Holliday*
    4.78 1.40 3.09 Denis*Menke*
    5.67 0.50 3.09 Tom*Tresh*
    3.20 2.90 3.05 Greg*Walker*
    7.00 (1.0) 3.00 Charlie*Maxwell*
    7.35 (1.4) 2.98 Earl*Averill
    5.24 0.70 2.97 Roy*Campanella
    4.44 1.50 2.97 Joe*Mauer*
    5.52 0.40 2.96 Tony*Gonzalez*
    4.70 1.20 2.95 Kevin*Bass*
    3.80 2.10 2.95 Mel*Hall*
    3.70 2.20 2.95 Gates*Brown*
    4.17 1.70 2.94 Cecil*Cooper*
    5.57 0.30 2.94 Dexter*Fowler*
    6.66 (0.8) 2.93 Cliff*Floyd*
    5.22 0.60 2.91 Mike*Sweeney*
    7.60 (1.8) 2.90 Irv*Noren*
    5.70 0.10 2.90 Jackie*Brandt*
    5.28 0.50 2.89 Wes*Covington*
    5.33 0.40 2.87 Lee*May*
    6.00 (0.3) 2.85 Harvey*Kuenn*
    5.07 0.60 2.84 Raul*Ibanez*
    8.54 (2.9) 2.82 Mark*Teixeira*
    2.91 2.70 2.81 Josh*Donaldson*
    2.53 3.00 2.77 Paul*O'Neill*
    2.82 2.70 2.76 Prince*Fielder*
    4.40 1.10 2.75 Cody*Ross*
    4.98 0.50 2.74 Jackie*Jensen*
    2.53 2.90 2.72 Thurman*Munson*
    2.82 2.60 2.71 Joey*Votto*
    1.63 3.70 2.67 John*Jaso*
    5.22 0.10 2.66 Dom*DiMaggio*
    5.00 0.30 2.65 Allen*Craig*
    4.10 1.20 2.65 Stan Javier
    3.14 2.10 2.62 Dick*Stuart*
    2.83 2.40 2.62 Ival*Goodman*
    6.01 (0.8) 2.61 Jason*Heyward*
    6.60 (1.4) 2.60 Jeff*King*
    4.70 0.50 2.60 Geoff*Jenkins*
    4.88 0.30 2.59 Claudell*Washington*
    6.78 (1.6) 2.59 Brian*McCann*
    4.65 0.50 2.58 Reggie*Smith*
    4.41 0.70 2.56 Jim*Fregosi*
    3.21 1.90 2.56 Pepper*Martin*
    6.00 (0.9) 2.55 Juan Uribe
    3.20 1.90 2.55 Mark Belanger
    6.84 (1.8) 2.52 Scott*Rolen*
    9.60 (4.6) 2.50 Jay*Bell*
    3.00 2.00 2.50 Al*Bumbry*
    2.99 2.00 2.50 Oscar*Gamble*
    7.15 (2.2) 2.48 Robin*Yount
    8.14 (3.2) 2.47 Ron*Gant*
    3.62 1.30 2.46 Paul*Goldschmidt*
    4.80 0.10 2.45 Daniel*Murphy*
    4.10 0.80 2.45 Pete*Ward*
    1.90 3.00 2.45 Dickie Thon
    1.74 3.10 2.42 Mike*Hargrove*
    8.03 (3.2) 2.42 Luis*Gonzalez*
    6.43 (1.6) 2.42 Tony*Oliva*
    4.00 0.80 2.40 John*Vander*Wal*
    7.28 (2.5) 2.39 Ryan*Klesko*
    5.77 (1.0) 2.39 Kirk*Gibson*
    3.70 1.00 2.35 Albie*Pearson*
    2.50 2.20 2.35 Jim*Russell*
    2.43 2.20 2.32 Willie*Crawford*
    3.53 1.10 2.32 Jason*Kipnis*
    5.22 (0.6) 2.31 Willie*Horton*
    3.61 1.00 2.31 Nolan*Arenado*
    6.10 (1.5) 2.30 Ron*Hunt*
    3.80 0.80 2.30 George*Crowe*
    7.76 (3.2) 2.28 Darryl*Strawberry*
    5.43 (0.9) 2.27 Eddie*Yost*
    3.13 1.40 2.27 Ryan*Zimmerman*
    3.41 1.10 2.26 Josh*Hamilton*
    4.79 (0.3) 2.25 Bill*Doran*
    6.62 (2.2) 2.21 Ed*Bailey*
    3.01 1.40 2.21 Joe*Kuhel*
    2.61 1.80 2.21 Tony*Cuccinello*
    4.60 (0.2) 2.20 Smoky*Burgess*
    2.48 1.90 2.19 Tony*Clark*
    3.84 0.50 2.17 Leon*Durham*
    4.40 (0.1) 2.15 Henry*Rodriguez*
    8.30 (4.0) 2.15 Larry*Doby
    5.03 (0.8) 2.12 Carlos*Lee*
    4.23 - 2.12 Martin*Prado*
    3.22 1.00 2.11 Shin-Soo*Choo*
    4.20 - 2.10 Don*Demeter*
    3.00 1.20 2.10 Anthony*Rizzo*
    2.16 2.00 2.08 Mike*Greenwell*
    2.86 1.30 2.08 Monte*Irvin
    6.52 (2.4) 2.06 Eddie*Stanky*
    4.11 - 2.06 Danny*Taylor*
    1.28 2.80 2.04 Luke*Appling
    2.56 1.50 2.03 Steve*Braun*
    6.35 (2.3) 2.03 Davey*Lopes*
    4.04 - 2.02 Elston*Howard*
    1.03 3.00 2.02 Nick*Johnson*
    8.92 (4.9) 2.01 Chipper*Jones*
    1.41 2.60 2.01 Gus*Zernial*
    4.40 (0.4) 2.00 Bake*McBride*
    2.70 1.30 2.00 Coco Crisp
    2.32 1.60 1.96 Lyman*Bostock*
    0.12 3.80 1.96 Jim*Dwyer*
    2.59 1.30 1.95 Wes*Parker*
    1.77 2.10 1.94 Kole*Calhoun*
    5.54 (1.7) 1.92 Jeromy*Burnitz*
    6.43 (2.6) 1.92 Jackie*Robinson
    0.72 3.10 1.91 Mike*Easler*
    11.1 (7.3) 1.90 Ernie*Banks
    2.78 1.00 1.89 Justin*Turner*
    4.18 (0.4) 1.89 Ken*Caminiti*
    3.44 0.30 1.87 Adam*Lind*
    2.72 1.00 1.86 Miguel*Tejada*
    5.30 (1.6) 1.85 Miguel*Montero*
    5.40 (1.7) 1.85 John Roseboro
    4.30 (0.6) 1.85 George*Kell
    5.86 (2.2) 1.83 Ray*Boone*
    2.00 1.60 1.80 Bill North
    1.90 1.70 1.80 Manny Sanguillen
    5.58 (2.0) 1.79 Hank*Thompson*
    4.68 (1.1) 1.79 Jerry*Mumphrey*
    1.07 2.50 1.79 Cliff*Johnson*
    0.76 2.80 1.78 Dan*Ford*
    2.54 1.00 1.77 Tino*Martinez*
    2.52 1.00 1.76 Erubiel*Durazo*
    0.60 2.90 1.75 John*Lowenstein*
    8.40 (4.9) 1.75 Johnny*Bench
    3.77 (0.3) 1.74 Neil*Walker*
    7.50 (4.1) 1.70 Gary*Matthews*
    6.77 (3.4) 1.69 Hank*Aaron
    4.13 (0.8) 1.67 Freddie*Freeman*
    3.30 - 1.65 Wally*Westlake*
    2.56 0.70 1.63 Justin*Morneau*
    2.56 0.70 1.63 Dick*Dietz*
    1.55 1.70 1.63 Lyle*Overbay*
    1.14 2.10 1.62 Bernard*Gilkey*
    0.53 2.70 1.62 Jorge*Orta*
    0.33 2.90 1.62 Bruce*Bochte*
    5.11 (1.9) 1.61 Lonnie*Smith*
    4.20 (1.0) 1.60 Orlando Hudson
    3.08 0.10 1.59 Luke*Easter*
    0.73 2.40 1.57 Mike*Morse*
    5.80 (2.7) 1.55 Mike*Andrews*
    7.38 (4.3) 1.54 Larry*Walker*
    1.78 1.30 1.54 Carlos*Pena*
    2.56 0.50 1.53 Kevin*Seitzer*
    7.55 (4.5) 1.53 Bobby*Thomson*
    5.53 (2.5) 1.52 Jim*Wynn*
    1.22 1.80 1.51 Adam*Eaton*
    6.07 (3.1) 1.49 Wally*Post*
    2.15 0.80 1.48 Sam*Leslie*
    1.84 1.10 1.47 Zeke*Bonura*
    2.43 0.50 1.47 Roy*Johnson*
    2.61 0.30 1.46 Curt*Blefary*
    1.91 1.00 1.46 Ray*Durham*
    3.11 (0.2) 1.46 John*Jaha*
    2.11 0.80 1.46 Carlos*Delgado*
    7.20 (4.3) 1.45 Richie*Hebner*
    0.70 2.20 1.45 Don*Hurst*
    3.52 (0.8) 1.36 Jimmie*Hall*
    4.71 (2.0) 1.36 Cleon*Jones*
    3.40 (0.7) 1.35 Denny*Walling*
    3.99 (1.3) 1.35 Candy*Maldonado*
    3.76 (1.1) 1.33 Dan*Uggla*
    4.14 (1.5) 1.32 George*Scott*
    1.42 1.20 1.31 Alan*Trammell*
    2.00 0.60 1.30 Frank White
    1.28 1.30 1.29 Rance*Mulliniks*
    3.66 (1.1) 1.28 Rico*Carty*
    4.46 (1.9) 1.28 David*Justice*
    4.23 (1.7) 1.27 Richie*Ashburn
    6.63 (4.1) 1.27 Andy*Van*Slyke*
    1.81 0.70 1.26 Dion*James*
    3.39 (0.9) 1.25 Mack*Jones*
    6.88 (4.4) 1.24 Leon*Wagner*
    2.07 0.40 1.24 Buster*Posey*
    7.13 (4.7) 1.22 Hank*Bauer*
    8.82 (6.4) 1.21 Steve*Finley*
    4.30 (1.9) 1.20 Robby*Thompson*
    4.80 (2.4) 1.20 Jim*King*
    5.60 (3.2) 1.20 John*Milner*
    (0.4) 2.80 1.20 A. J. Pierzynski
    1.76 0.60 1.18 Kendrys*Morales*
    1.76 0.60 1.18 Jason*Kubel*
    3.86 (1.5) 1.18 Pedro*Guerrero*
    2.14 0.20 1.17 Jason*Thompson*
    4.84 (2.5) 1.17 Brad*Hawpe*
    3.10 (0.8) 1.15 Hideki*Matsui*
    4.60 (2.3) 1.15 Carlos Gomez
    1.67 0.60 1.14 Andrew*McCutchen*
    5.87 (3.6) 1.14 Ryan*Braun*
    3.36 (1.1) 1.13 Willard*Marshall*
    3.07 (0.9) 1.09 John*Briggs*
    3.76 (1.6) 1.08 Del*Ennis*
    3.22 (1.1) 1.06 George*Selkirk*
    1.61 0.50 1.06 Carlos*Guillen*
    3.40 (1.3) 1.05 Lloyd Moseby
    2.40 (0.3) 1.05 Frank*Catalanotto*
    0.20 1.90 1.05 Terry*Puhl*
    1.69 0.40 1.05 John*Olerud*
    0.78 1.30 1.04 Buddy*Bell*
    2.34 (0.3) 1.02 Nate*Colbert*
    3.71 (1.7) 1.01 Kevin*Youkilis*
    2.90 (0.9) 1.00 Bobby*Avila*
    2.30 (0.3) 1.00 Jim Piersall
    1.87 0.10 0.99 Whitey*Kurowski*
    2.36 (0.4) 0.98 Ellis*Valentine*
    1.06 0.90 0.98 Pablo*Sandoval*
    5.43 (3.5) 0.97 Eddie*Robinson*
    3.80 (1.9) 0.95 Brett*Butler*
    4.50 (2.6) 0.95 George*Altman*
    5.69 (3.8) 0.95 Jayson*Werth*
    1.47 0.40 0.94 Ray*Sanders*
    1.65 0.20 0.93 Bobby*Doerr
    4.01 (2.2) 0.91 Chuck*Knoblauch*
    2.28 (0.5) 0.89 John*Kruk*
    1.87 (0.1) 0.89 Starling*Marte*
    3.06 (1.3) 0.88 Kal*Daniels*
    1.82 (0.1) 0.86 Howie*Kendrick*
    3.61 (1.9) 0.86 Ryan*Ludwick*
    7.31 (5.6) 0.86 Earl*Torgeson*
    1.87 (0.2) 0.84 Mike*Marshall*
    4.36 (2.7) 0.83 Adam*LaRoche*
    1.75 (0.1) 0.83 Andre*Ethier*
    0.63 1.00 0.82 Mike*Cameron*
    1.02 0.60 0.81 Willie*Randolph*
    (0.4) 2.00 0.80 Butch Wynegar
    (0.0) 1.60 0.79 Lou*Piniella*
    7.27 (5.7) 0.78 Jeff*Bagwell
    2.04 (0.5) 0.77 Kris*Bryant*
    5.82 (4.3) 0.76 Matt*Williams*
    4.01 (2.5) 0.76 Julio*Franco*
    (0.1) 1.60 0.75 Jim Sundberg
    2.96 (1.5) 0.73 Richie*Sexson*
    5.33 (3.9) 0.72 Bob*Horner*
    2.49 (1.1) 0.70 John*Wockenfuss*
    2.28 (0.9) 0.69 Jim*Lemon*
    2.06 (0.7) 0.68 Andy*Pafko*
    4.52 (3.2) 0.66 Jim*Ray*Hart*
    0.78 0.50 0.64 Jonathan*Lucroy*
    4.60 (3.4) 0.60 Bill*Skowron*
    4.30 (3.1) 0.60 Jeff*Cirillo*
    3.29 (2.1) 0.60 Steve*Kemp*
    2.18 (1.0) 0.59 Mookie*Betts*
    4.28 (3.1) 0.59 Ellis*Burks*
    2.13 (1.0) 0.57 Johnny*Hopp*
    3.90 (2.8) 0.55 Mark*Reynolds*
    4.07 (3.0) 0.54 Al*Rosen*
    2.74 (1.7) 0.52 Jim*Hickman*
    4.82 (3.8) 0.51 George*Foster*
    1.80 (0.8) 0.50 John Stearns
    0.78 0.20 0.49 Ed*Morgan*
    2.97 (2.0) 0.48 Bill*Dickey
    1.36 (0.4) 0.48 Shannon*Stewart*
    (0.8) 1.70 0.47 Ruben*Sierra*
    1.52 (0.6) 0.46 Rick*Reichardt*
    4.41 (3.5) 0.46 Brian*Giles*
    3.60 (2.7) 0.45 Melky*Cabrera*
    1.30 (0.4) 0.45 Brooks*Robinson
    9.09 (8.2) 0.45 Ken*Griffey*
    2.99 (2.1) 0.45 Carlos*Quentin*
    2.04 (1.2) 0.42 Todd*Zeile*
    3.10 (2.3) 0.40 Roberto*Kelly*
    1.90 (1.1) 0.40 Phil*Nevin*
    2.40 (1.7) 0.35 Gary Gaetti
    2.49 (1.8) 0.35 Curtis*Granderson*
    0.68 - 0.34 Brandon*Belt*
    1.36 (0.7) 0.33 Christian*Yelich*
    (0.1) 0.80 0.33 Nick*Markakis*
    1.84 (1.2) 0.32 Mike*Trout*
    5.86 (5.3) 0.28 Harmon*Killebrew
    (0.8) 1.30 0.28 Randy*Milligan*
    0.64 (0.1) 0.27 Cecil*Travis*
    0.72 (0.2) 0.26 Carlos*Correa*
    3.11 (2.6) 0.26 Bob*Cerv*
    2.09 (1.6) 0.25 Ruppert*Jones*
    1.49 (1.0) 0.25 Tony*Solaita*
    (0.6) 1.10 0.23 Victor*Martinez*
    2.00 (1.6) 0.20 Joe*Collins*
    1.39 (1.0) 0.20 Alvin*Davis*
    2.19 (1.8) 0.20 Dale*Mitchell*
    7.07 (6.7) 0.19 Norm*Cash*
    1.26 (0.9) 0.18 George*McQuinn*
    (2.1) 2.40 0.16 Don*Mattingly*
    2.91 (2.6) 0.16 Johnny*Moore*
    1.61 (1.3) 0.16 Spud*Davis*
    (2.2) 2.50 0.15 Richie*Zisk*
    1.30 (1.0) 0.15 Ramon Hernandez
    2.00 (1.7) 0.15 Greg*Gross*
    1.99 (1.7) 0.15 Sid*Bream*
    3.88 (3.6) 0.14 Davey*Johnson*
    0.75 (0.5) 0.13 Gene*Richards*
    8.12 (7.9) 0.11 Moises*Alou*
    1.68 (1.5) 0.09 Randy*Ready*
    2.57 (2.4) 0.09 Ian*Kinsler*
    1.17 (1.0) 0.09 A.J.*Pollock*
    3.20 (3.1) 0.05 Nomar*Garciaparra*
    3.50 (3.4) 0.05 Clete Boyer
    2.10 (2.0) 0.05 Jeff*Conine*
    3.09 (3.0) 0.05 Jim*Gentile*
    3.79 (3.7) 0.04 Ron*Santo
    3.08 (3.0) 0.04 Sal*Bando*
    1.97 (1.9) 0.03 Corey*Hart*
    0.14 (0.1) 0.02 Yasmani*Grandal*
    (1.1) 1.10 0.00 Kyle*Seager*
    4.80 (4.8) - Joe*Carter*
    2.20 (2.2) - Johnny Logan
    1.08 (1.1) (0.0) Tommie*Agee*
    1.98 (2.0) (0.0) Tony*Conigliaro*
    0.85 (0.9) (0.0) Bernie*Carbo*
    (0.1) - (0.0) Dustin*Pedroia*
    1.90 (2.0) (0.1) Pat*Burrell*
    0.68 (0.8) (0.1) Steve*Henderson*
    1.15 (1.3) (0.1) Bobby*Higginson*
    3.35 (3.5) (0.1) Greg*Vaughn*
    0.34 (0.5) (0.1) Eric*Karros*
    3.62 (3.8) (0.1) Dave*Hollins*
    4.30 (4.5) (0.1) Gary*Carter
    2.60 (2.8) (0.1) Chuck*Hinton*
    2.10 (2.3) (0.1) Travis Fryman
    5.49 (5.7) (0.1) Ron*Cey*
    1.07 (1.3) (0.1) Melvin*Mora*
    1.16 (1.4) (0.1) Charlie*Keller*
    2.75 (3.0) (0.1) Merv*Rettenmund*
    3.92 (4.2) (0.1) Frank*Howard*
    7.12 (7.4) (0.1) Graig*Nettles*
    1.90 (2.2) (0.2) Mike Scioscia
    (1.4) 1.10 (0.2) Matthew*Joyce*
    0.08 (0.4) (0.2) Bryce*Harper*
    (0.8) 0.50 (0.2) Dwayne*Murphy*
    3.55 (3.9) (0.2) Alfonso*Soriano*
    4.53 (4.9) (0.2) Carlos*Gonzalez*
    1.30 (1.7) (0.2) David*Wright*
    2.16 (2.6) (0.2) Jeff*Burroughs*
    1.25 (1.7) (0.2) Dave*Magadan*
    0.12 (0.6) (0.2) Corey*Seager*
    (0.1) (0.4) (0.3) Joe*Ferguson*
    (0.0) (0.5) (0.3) Khris*Davis*
    0.76 (1.3) (0.3) George*Springer*
    3.24 (3.8) (0.3) Greg*Luzinski*
    2.03 (2.6) (0.3) Seth*Smith*
    1.02 (1.7) (0.3) Cal*Abrams*
    0.01 (0.7) (0.3) Duke*Sims*
    2.70 (3.4) (0.3) Justin*Upton*
    4.30 (5.0) (0.4) Brian*Jordan*
    3.68 (4.4) (0.4) Ray*Lankford*
    3.26 (4.1) (0.4) Woodie*Held*
    3.92 (4.8) (0.4) Jack*Clark*
    1.10 (2.0) (0.5) Carlos Ruiz
    (0.1) (0.8) (0.5) Ron Hansen
    (0.2) (0.7) (0.5) Phil*Bradley*
    3.10 (4.0) (0.5) Robin*Ventura*
    3.99 (4.9) (0.5) Fred*McGriff*
    (0.8) (0.2) (0.5) Bob*Bailey*
    0.80 (1.8) (0.5) Chili*Davis*
    (1.5) 0.50 (0.5) Asdrubal*Cabrera*
    3.89 (4.9) (0.5) Larry*Parrish*
    3.36 (4.4) (0.5) Howard*Johnson*
    2.35 (3.4) (0.5) Hanley*Ramirez*
    0.45 (1.5) (0.5) Jack*Cust*
    2.44 (3.5) (0.5) J.D.*Drew*
    7.32 (8.4) (0.5) Barry*Bonds*
    3.30 (4.4) (0.6) Aaron Hill
    (5.1) 4.00 (0.6) Cal*Ripken
    (0.0) (1.1) (0.6) Vern*Stephens*
    2.25 (3.4) (0.6) Rick*Monday*
    6.25 (7.4) (0.6) Andre*Dawson
    (2.1) 0.90 (0.6) Carlos*Santana*
    1.40 (2.6) (0.6) Ed*Bouchee*
    2.29 (3.5) (0.6) Jason*Bay*
    0.97 (2.2) (0.6) Jim*Pagliaroni*
    0.49 (1.8) (0.7) Pete*O'Brien*
    0.98 (2.3) (0.7) Ken*Harrelson*
    (1.6) 0.30 (0.7) Mike*Epstein*
    1.26 (2.6) (0.7) Dave*Winfield
    3.15 (4.5) (0.7) David*DeJesus*
    (1.2) (0.2) (0.7) Doug*Rader*
    0.84 (2.2) (0.7) Tom*Haller*
    0.90 (2.3) (0.7) Gus Triandos
    0.50 (1.9) (0.7) Lee*Lacy*
    3.16 (4.6) (0.7) Larry*Hisle*
    4.26 (5.7) (0.7) Gary*Sheffield*
    (1.2) (0.3) (0.7) Corey*Koskie*
    3.33 (4.8) (0.7) Grady*Sizemore*
    0.12 (1.6) (0.7) Don*Mincher*
    0.19 (1.7) (0.8) Johnny*Lindell*
    1.19 (2.7) (0.8) David*Ortiz*
    0.25 (1.8) (0.8) Mike*Stanley*
    0.41 (2.0) (0.8) John*Romano*
    0.60 (2.2) (0.8) Steve Yeager
    0.08 (1.7) (0.8) Manny*Machado*
    0.68 (2.3) (0.8) Eric*Chavez*
    3.16 (4.8) (0.8) Pete*Runnels*
    (1.1) (0.6) (0.8) Otto*Velez*
    (1.0) (0.7) (0.9) Milton*Bradley*
    1.48 (3.2) (0.9) Brady*Anderson*
    5.56 (7.3) (0.9) Bob*Allison*
    0.05 (1.8) (0.9) Ron*Blomberg*
    2.03 (3.8) (0.9) Hal*Morris*
    2.57 (4.4) (0.9) Wally*Moon*
    (0.0) (1.8) (0.9) John*Valentin*
    0.14 (2.0) (0.9) Todd*Frazier*
    (0.5) (1.4) (0.9) Dan*Pasqua*
    2.39 (4.3) (1.0) Rico*Petrocelli*
    1.58 (3.5) (1.0) Al*Ferrara*
    0.08 (2.0) (1.0) David*Segui*
    0.76 (2.7) (1.0) Shane*Mack*
    0.36 (2.3) (1.0) Lucas*Duda*
    1.75 (3.7) (1.0) Rocky*Colavito*
    0.55 (2.5) (1.0) Sherm*Lollar*
    0.35 (2.4) (1.0) Dave*Nilsson*
    0.34 (2.4) (1.0) Carmelo*Martinez*
    0.52 (2.6) (1.0) Carney*Lansford*
    2.39 (4.5) (1.1) George*Hendrick*
    1.27 (3.4) (1.1) Brian*Downing*
    (1.2) (0.9) (1.1) Albert*Pujols*
    (0.0) (2.3) (1.2) Johnny*Grubb*
    (0.4) (1.9) (1.2) Ben*Grieve*
    1.24 (3.6) (1.2) Raul*Mondesi*
    (0.2) (2.2) (1.2) Morgan*Ensberg*
    0.06 (2.5) (1.2) Lou*Boudreau
    1.85 (4.3) (1.2) Jay*Bruce*
    3.42 (5.9) (1.2) Adam*Dunn*
    0.01 (2.5) (1.2) Adam*Jones*
    1.10 (3.6) (1.3) Mark Ellis
    (0.4) (2.2) (1.3) J.D.*Martinez*
    0.79 (3.4) (1.3) Trot*Nixon*
    (0.0) (2.6) (1.3) Josh*Willingham*
    1.65 (4.3) (1.3) Rafael*Palmeiro*
    1.24 (3.9) (1.3) Don*Money*
    2.33 (5.0) (1.3) Dave*Kingman*
    0.59 (3.3) (1.4) Chase*Headley*
    (0.8) (1.9) (1.4) Kevin*Millar*
    2.24 (5.0) (1.4) Mo*Vaughn*
    (0.2) (2.6) (1.4) Jose*Abreu*
    2.95 (5.8) (1.4) Matt*Kemp*
    1.03 (3.9) (1.4) Glenn*Davis*
    2.19 (5.1) (1.5) Matt*Stairs*
    3.35 (6.3) (1.5) Rondell*White*
    3.33 (6.3) (1.5) Edwin*Encarnacion*
    (0.8) (2.2) (1.5) Alex*Gordon*
    4.69 (7.7) (1.5) Mike*Piazza
    (0.3) (2.8) (1.5) Craig*Wilson*
    1.34 (4.4) (1.5) Nelson*Cruz*
    0.70 (3.8) (1.6) Bret Boone
    (1.5) (1.6) (1.6) Miguel*Cabrera*
    0.08 (3.2) (1.6) Chris*Hoiles*
    (0.6) (2.5) (1.6) Brad*Fullmer*
    (0.4) (2.7) (1.6) Sixto*Lezcano*
    (0.5) (2.6) (1.6) Bill*Melton*
    (0.2) (3.0) (1.6) Ben*Zobrist*
    (0.0) (3.2) (1.6) Wayne*Gross*
    7.56 (10.8) (1.6) Alex*Rodriguez*
    0.02 (3.3) (1.6) Aubrey*Huff*
    (1.7) (1.6) (1.7) Billy*Butler*
    (0.0) (3.3) (1.7) Chris*Carter*
    1.08 (4.4) (1.7) Ken*Henderson*
    0.31 (3.8) (1.7) Mark*Trumbo*
    1.67 (5.2) (1.8) Bobby*Bonilla*
    4.12 (7.7) (1.8) Reggie*Jackson
    - (3.6) (1.8) Fred*Lynn*
    (1.5) (2.1) (1.8) Alex Rios
    (0.8) (2.8) (1.8) Tony Pena
    1.08 (4.7) (1.8) Hal*McRae*
    0.77 (4.4) (1.8) Dwight*Evans*
    0.11 (3.8) (1.8) Donn*Clendenon*
    (1.6) (2.1) (1.9) Willie*Aikens*
    2.84 (6.6) (1.9) Carlton*Fisk
    0.72 (4.5) (1.9) Hank*Sauer*
    (1.5) (2.3) (1.9) Bob Boone
    (0.6) (3.3) (2.0) Eric*Soderholm*
    0.67 (4.6) (2.0) Ernie*Lombardi
    (1.9) (2.0) (2.0) Nick*Swisher*
    (1.3) (2.6) (2.0) Paul*Sorrento*
    (0.2) (3.8) (2.0) Chris*Sabo*
    (0.1) (4.0) (2.1) Del Crandall
    1.37 (5.5) (2.1) Bill*Freehan*
    0.64 (4.8) (2.1) Jim*Edmonds*
    0.93 (5.1) (2.1) Giancarlo*Stanton*
    (2.1) (2.1) (2.1) Wade*Boggs
    (0.5) (3.7) (2.1) Magglio*Ordonez*
    - (4.3) (2.2) Bill*Mueller*
    (2.8) (1.5) (2.2) Jose*Altuve*
    (0.3) (4.0) (2.2) Earl*Battey*
    4.57 (8.9) (2.2) Jeff*Kent*
    (0.0) (4.3) (2.2) Dick*Allen*
    0.67 (5.1) (2.2) Jay*Buhner*
    (1.6) (2.8) (2.2) Jesse*Barfield*
    (0.4) (4.1) (2.3) Glenallen*Hill*
    (0.9) (3.6) (2.3) David*Freese*
    0.37 (4.9) (2.3) Dale*Long*
    0.40 (5.0) (2.3) Vernon Wells
    1.30 (5.9) (2.3) Tim*Salmon*
    (2.0) (2.6) (2.3) Mickey*Tettleton*
    (1.7) (3.1) (2.4) Yasiel*Puig*
    (2.9) (2.1) (2.5) Vladimir*Guerrero*
    0.14 (5.1) (2.5) Luke*Scott*
    (1.8) (3.3) (2.5) George*Bell*
    2.89 (8.0) (2.6) Reggie*Sanders*
    (0.0) (5.1) (2.6) Dean*Palmer*
    (2.2) (3.0) (2.6) Travis*Hafner*
    0.59 (5.8) (2.6) Gene*Tenace*
    2.98 (8.2) (2.6) Ken*Griffey
    (1.7) (3.6) (2.7) Gary*Roenicke*
    (0.5) (5.1) (2.8) Charles Johnson
    1.08 (6.7) (2.8) Joe*Gordon
    (0.5) (5.1) (2.8) Troy*Tulowitzki*
    (3.0) (2.7) (2.8) Bob*Nieman*
    (2.8) (3.1) (2.9) Doug*DeCinces*
    2.12 (8.0) (2.9) John*Mayberry*
    1.21 (7.1) (2.9) Derrek*Lee*
    (0.5) (5.5) (3.0) Michael*Cuddyer*
    (1.0) (5.1) (3.0) Juan*Gonzalez*
    (1.7) (4.4) (3.1) Ken*Phelps*
    (1.5) (4.7) (3.1) Jose*Bautista*
    (0.4) (5.8) (3.1) Mark*McGwire*
    0.48 (6.7) (3.1) Al*Smith*
    (1.4) (4.8) (3.1) Evan*Longoria*
    (2.7) (3.6) (3.2) Jorge*Posada*
    (1.6) (4.8) (3.2) Troy*Glaus*
    2.11 (8.6) (3.2) Andruw*Jones*
    (2.3) (4.3) (3.3) Paul Blair
    (3.8) (2.9) (3.3) Bernie*Williams*
    0.42 (7.1) (3.3) Bob*Robertson*
    0.72 (7.4) (3.3) Roy*Smalley*
    - (6.9) (3.5) Mike Lieberthal
    (5.2) (1.8) (3.5) Ken*Singleton*
    (3.1) (3.9) (3.5) Jason Varitek
    (1.6) (5.4) (3.5) Danny*Tartabull*
    1.18 (8.2) (3.5) Cecil*Fielder*
    3.73 (10.8) (3.5) Mike*Schmidt
    (1.2) (6.0) (3.6) Jose*Canseco*
    (4.0) (3.3) (3.6) Gorman*Thomas*
    (4.1) (3.2) (3.7) Terry Steinbach
    (0.1) (7.3) (3.7) Javy*Lopez*
    (4.1) (3.3) (3.7) Jhonny Peralta
    (2.0) (5.5) (3.7) Kevin*Mitchell*
    (2.2) (5.5) (3.8) Dave*Henderson*
    1.98 (9.8) (3.9) Shawn*Green*
    (2.6) (5.5) (4.1) Dmitri*Young*
    (2.4) (5.8) (4.1) Russell*Branyan*
    (1.1) (7.1) (4.1) Mike*Lowell*
    (5.3) (3.0) (4.2) Edgar*Martinez*
    (2.3) (6.1) (4.2) Andre*Thornton*
    (3.5) (4.9) (4.2) Albert*Belle*
    (1.7) (7.3) (4.5) Manny*Ramirez*
    (1.8) (7.2) (4.5) Benito Santiago
    (5.9) (3.7) (4.8) Don*Baylor*
    (0.6) (9.2) (4.9) Frank*Thomas
    (0.8) (9.2) (5.0) Joe*Adcock*
    (1.9) (8.1) (5.0) Mike*Napoli*
    (7.3) (3.1) (5.2) Rick Dempsey
    (4.2) (6.3) (5.3) Robinson*Cano*
    (4.0) (6.5) (5.3) Bobby*Grich*
    (3.2) (8.3) (5.7) Jim*Rice
    (1.7) (10.0) (5.8) Adrian*Beltre*
    (2.4) (9.3) (5.9) Torii*Hunter*
    5.04 (17.0) (6.0) Sammy*Sosa*
    1.39 (13.4) (6.0) Jim*Thome*
    3.20 (15.9) (6.4) Frank*Robinson
    (2.6) (10.2) (6.4) Richard*Hidalgo*
    (4.7) (9.6) (7.2) Ivan Rodriguez
    (4.7) (9.6) (7.2) Paul*Konerko*
    (4.3) (10.1) (7.2) Jermaine*Dye*
    (9.4) (9.7) (9.5) Chet*Lemon*
    (6.5) (12.7) (9.6) Lance Parrish
    Last edited by Jar of Flies; 04-08-2017 at 04:05 PM.

  15. #15
    Would there be value in somehow averaging rWAR, fWAR, WARP3 and Win Shares into a single, composite metric, thus avoiding outlier results? Or are some of those demonstrably superior to the others?
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  16. #16
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadwick View Post
    Would there be value in somehow averaging rWAR, fWAR, WARP3 and Win Shares into a single, composite metric, thus avoiding outlier results? Or are some of those demonstrably superior to the others?
    WARP3? Wasn't that BBPro's old system? They just call it WARP now. And then you have Baseball Gauge's version of WAR too.

    I mean, for any years in which TZ and DRS or UZR are both available - looking at the system using UZR or DRS will be better. Plus you canl't really combine FIP-based and RA based pitcher WARs necessarily. And you would have to make sure that replacement values are all the same. And Win Shares in not scaled the same and is not created using the same units - so that wouldn't work anyway.

    I mean - I always look at all of them when evaluating players. But I don't add them and divide by 4 or anything.
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    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
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  17. #17
    Nate Silver proposes replacing the emphasis on saves with "goose eggs", basically a scoreless 7th, 8th or 9th inning. This is a fun read:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...lief-pitchers/

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    North Idaho
    Posts
    442
    It was revealed on MLB-Now that sabermetrics is wrong. About 1/3 of all plate appearances end in either a walk, strike out, or homer. The rate of singles are at an all-time rate. Inaction is taking over the game. It all started with Bill James, Money Ball, and the compensation based on these new formulas that curtail team play all for individual glory.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by SABR Steve View Post
    It was revealed on MLB-Now that sabermetrics is wrong. About 1/3 of all plate appearances end in either a walk, strike out, or homer. The rate of singles are at an all-time rate. Inaction is taking over the game. It all started with Bill James, Money Ball, and the compensation based on these new formulas that curtail team play all for individual glory.
    This nonsense is germane how?
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Florissant, Mo.
    Posts
    25,710
    Quote Originally Posted by SABR Steve View Post
    It was revealed on MLB-Now that sabermetrics is wrong. About 1/3 of all plate appearances end in either a walk, strike out, or homer. The rate of singles are at an all-time rate. Inaction is taking over the game. It all started with Bill James, Money Ball, and the compensation based on these new formulas that curtail team play all for individual glory.
    Sabermerics is wrong? Sabermetrics does not necessarily support or suggest three true outcomes as being "right"...or at least does not set-out to support it. It quantifies it .More importantly sabermetrics is not about walking. Sabermetrics is a multi-faceted enterprise that has thousands of branches and covers every single aspect of baseball. Which is why every team in the MLB has a saber-metric staff which intervenes anywhere between a lot to significantly to overwhelmingly into day to day operations including scouting, player develpment, roster construction, and managing.

    That being said - there is actually a positive correlation between run scoring and three true outcome emphasis. When the three were all in balance and emphasized, you had the high run environment like the 30's and 90's. Runs are down now because strikeouts have out-classed walks. But hitting dingers and walking have always correlated to high run scoring. So it is shard to suggest that it is costing teams wins.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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