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Thread: Is fastball mania putting young arms on the brink?

  1. #61
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    I just realized something that I am sure Docs much more educated than I realize. You lose a lot off shoulder mobility with your forearms vertical. So when you start external rotation your elbow has to move forward. With your forearm horizontal, my elbow can lag back much longer.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by real green View Post
    Attachment 159272

    Bob Feller, Every pitcher I have looked at you can find photos similar.
    Look at Feller's front foot. It's well off the ground. Which is critical, because load (usually) doesn't start until the front foot plants.

    His arm has time to get up and ready.

    Also, Feller's case is confounded because WWII split his career in half, giving him 3.5 seasons off.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tman View Post
    The contention is among the "end the inverted W" crowd that what matters most is where the arm is when the front foot lands.
    While that's generally true, technically what I'm looking for is when the shoulders start to rotate (as judged by when the pitching arm side elbow starts to rotate around toward home).

    That Early Torso Rotation is rare but common in oft-injured pitchers.

    And increasingly common, which is scary.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking0 View Post
    I have a question. Is it at foot strike, or when external rotation starts? I have noticed that external rotation can start before foot strike so that the arm is in the correct location at foot strike, but not before external rotation.
    When ER starts, which is usually but not always at front foot plant.

    But less so.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by songtitle View Post
    Personally, don't think the W is the issue, it's 'what angle is the rear forearm?' This angle can be bad even if the rear elbow is not above the shoulder. Plus, the front arm/elbow makes no difference whatsoever.

    To keep it simple, 'the further from vertical at landing, the more dangerous.'
    Attachment 159281

    Of course, this is just me. No studies, no credentials.
    This is the core finding of LaBella's study; internal rotation (further from vertical at landing) correlates with pain in young pitchers.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by real green View Post
    Root,
    The little video I have looked at has shown a lot of inconsistencies from pitch to pitch at these minute moments of time for the same pitcher. The timing intervals are split second differences. Have you seen the same? If so can you determine if it is pitch selection, location, effort, or simply being human. Do you see any timing differences between the stretch and windup? Can you correlate different results on velocity from pitch to pitch? Is timing impacted by "high" stress scenarios or fatigue?
    I don't see a whole lot of timing differences with the same pitcher at upper levels, but I do see it at lower levels quite frequently. Where I've really noticed it with high school pitchers is with secondary pitches, because they just aren't very good at holding their mechanics together through different pitch types and - even more so - when they consciously try to "place" the ball. I will see this especially after they are given the advice to "slow down and throw strikes." This results quite often in early entry into external rotation as they almost seem to throw the pitch the same as they would throw a dart.

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