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Thread: Yes/ No/ Maybe Hall of Fame, 1947 election

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye View Post
    Due to LQ adjustments and missing data I don't have negro leaguers or Japanese players in my personal HOF. However for the purpose of this project it only make sense to use the greatest player list which looks at NL, JL, ML & PCL players. So it is a much more inclusive list.
    Why do you feel there is enough statistical evidence to rank Jud Wilson exactly 111th, but not enough statistical evidence to put him in your HOF? It seems like it would take even MORE objective evidence to give a player a precise ranking than to say Y or N to the HOF.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post

    Rice, Grantland - yes, what exactly is the No argument is it that he also wrote about college football? He was the first radio broadcaster for the WS, wrote for the NY Herald Tribune during the McGraw Mathewson era and as far as I know was the premier sportswriter during an age when baseball was king.
    Actually, my no vote is premised on the idea no one who isn't influencing policy or running a team has sufficient influence on the game to merit being in a Hall of Fame.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    Rice, Grantland - yes, what exactly is the No argument is it that he also wrote about college football? He was the first radio broadcaster for the WS, wrote for the NY Herald Tribune during the McGraw Mathewson era and as far as I know was the premier sportswriter during an age when baseball was king.
    What exactly is the yes argument? How did he impact the game? Did he help establish a new set of statistics or way to analyze games and players? Did he in some way impact a rule change or break a color barrier? He was a great writer. There is an award in place for that already.

  4. #24
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    Somehow on the contributors I was a little too loose and dim on the specifics. So "major figure" yes, but I guess no more impactful on the on field product than the broadcasters who will come in the future. Remind me of this if I pull a "HOW COME NOONE IS VOTING FOR (Red Barber/Mel Allen/Harry Carey/Vin Scully/Roger Angell etc)

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    What exactly is the yes argument? How did he impact the game? Did he help establish a new set of statistics or way to analyze games and players? Did he in some way impact a rule change or break a color barrier? He was a great writer. There is an award in place for that already.
    Yeah, a Bill James with his popularization of sabermetrics makes it for me, Al Elias for compiling so many stats and popularizing the use of some of them, and a David Neft as the creator of the modern Baseball Encyclopedia (the first MacMillan), whose work sabermetrics and research to flourish are good examples of what I'm looking for for guys whose influence was mostly outside of leagues or teams. You could count Chadwick and the latter Spink for wide influence on the form of the game including rules. Grantland Rice was a fine writer, but I have to second jjpm's questions about him in terms of voting for this or any other Hall.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  6. #26
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    Just over a day and a half left in this election as I type this.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  7. #27
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    On vacation, sorry can't debate.


    Lazzeri, Tony--YES

    Wilson, Jud--NO

    Bell, Cool Papa--MAYBE
    Bridges, Tommy--NO
    Cronin, Joe--YES
    Danning, Harry--NO
    Davis, Curt--NO
    Derringer. Paul--NO
    Lyons. Ted--YES
    Rolfe, Red--NO
    Scales. Tubby--NO
    Selkirk, George --NO
    Waner, Lloyd--NO
    Werber, Billy--NO


    The contributors

    Rice, Grantland--YES

    Bolden, Ed--MAYBE

    Krichell, Paul-MAYBE
    Street, Gabby--NO
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  8. #28
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    We have inducted Joe Cronin, Ted Lyons and Jud Wilson among the players. Additionally, Lazzeri, Bridges and Bell continue on the player ballot and Rice and Bolden continue on the contributor ballot.

    I'll post the official results after the usual reminder than in the first two years, maybes don't count as the half yes, half no they will after those years. As a result, the percentage totals may be well short of 100%. First, the players:

    Code:
    yes	no	Player
    55	45	Lazzeri, Tony
    
    90	10	Wilson, Jud
    
    70	0	Bell, Cool Papa
    0	40	Bridges, Tommy
    90	0	Cronin, Joe
    0	100	Danning, Harry
    0	100	Davis, Curt
    10	70	Derringer. Paul
    90	0	Lyons. Ted
    0	100	Rolfe, Red
    0	80	Scales. Tubby
    0	100	Selkirk, George 
    0	100	Waner, Lloyd
    0	100	Werber, Billy
    Now the contributors:

    Code:
    yes	no	Contributor
    65	35	Rice, Grantland
    
    40	30	Bolden, Ed
    
    10	50	Krichell, Paul
    0	100	Street, Gabby
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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