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Thread: Greatest Player by Position: Round 10 (Relievers)

  1. #1
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    Greatest Player by Position: Round 10 (Relievers)

    With the starting pitchers complete, it's time to move on to relievers. Now the ballots shrink back to ten. This is the penultimate round; the next one elects Negro Leaguers. The same considerations apply, and it is up to the voter how much credit to give someone like Dennis Eckersley for their starting career.

    Code:
    	2011	        2012	           2013	        2014
    1	Rivera (169)	Rivera (129)	Rivera (180)	Rivera (170)
    2	Wilhelm (131)	Wilhelm (104)	Wilhelm (145)	Wilhelm (138)
    3	Gossage (119)	Gossage (82)	Gossage (133)	Eckersley (117)
    4	Eckersley (107)	Eckersley (81)	Eckersley (125)	Gossage (115)
    5	Hoffman (85)	Hoffman (68)	Hoffman (90)	Hoffman (94)
    6	Wagner (73)	Wagner (53)	Wagner (78)	Wagner (85)
    7	Fingers (65)	Quiz (32)	Fingers (57)	Smith (46)
    8	L. Smith (39)	Fingers (29)	L Smith (53)	Nathan (39)
    9	Sutter (34)	Smith (29)	Sutter (31)	Sutter (34)
    10	Quiz (33)	Sutter (21)	Quiz (23)	Fingers (32)
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  2. #2
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    Last round's results are nearly complete. Sultan, if you could PM me a revised ballot, I would appreciate it. I tried sending you a message, but your inbox was full!
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  3. #3
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    1. Mariano Rivera - 10
    2. Dennis Eckersley - 9
    3. Hoyt Wilhelm - 8
    4. Bobby Shantz - 7
    5. Billy Wagner - 6
    6. Rich Gossage - 5
    7. Joe Nathan - 4
    8. Trevor Hoffman - 3
    9. Tom Gordon - 2
    10. Lee Smith - 1
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  4. #4
    1. Mariano Rivera - 10
    2. Rich Gossage - 9
    3. Dennis Eckersley - 8
    4. Hoyt Wilhelm - 7
    5. Lee Smith - 6
    6. Billy Wagner - 5
    7. Trevor Hoffman - 4
    8. Bruce Sutter - 3
    9. Rollie Finges - 2
    10. Dan Quisenberry - 1
    Last edited by blade1969; 05-18-2015 at 11:42 AM.

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    1. Mariano Rivera - 10
    2. Hoyt Wilhelm - 9
    3. Dennis Eckersley - 8
    4. Rich Gossage - 7
    5. Trevor Hoffman - 6
    6. Lee Smith - 5
    7. Billy Wagner - 4
    8. John Franco - 3
    9. Joe Nathan - 2
    10. Jonathan Papelbon - 1
    Dave Kent

  6. #6
    1. Mariano Rivera - 10
    2. Dennis Eckersley - 9
    3. Hoyt Wilhelm - 8
    4. Trevor Hoffman - 7
    5. Goose Gossage - 6
    6. Eddie Rommel - 5
    7. Billy Wagner - 4
    8. Lee Smith - 3
    9. Rollie Fingers - 2
    10. Joe Nathan - 1

  7. #7
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    1. Mariano Rivera - 10
    2. Dennis Eckersley - 9
    3. Rich Gossage - 8
    4. Hoyt Wilhelm - 7
    5. Billy Wagner - 6
    6. Trevor Hoffman - 5
    7. Rollie Fingers - 4
    8. Bruce Sutter - 3
    9. Lee Smith - 2
    10. John Franco - 1

  8. #8
    1. Mariano Rivera-10 pts.
    2. Hoyt Wilhelm-9 pts.
    3. Dennis Eckersley-8 pts.
    4. Goose Gossage-7 pts.
    5. Billy Wagner-6 pts.
    6. Trevor Hoffman-5 pts.
    7. Joe Nathan-4 pts.
    8. John Hiller-3 pts.
    9. Lee Smith-2 pts.
    10. Tom Henke-1 pt.

  9. #9
    1. Rivera 10 points
    2. Fingers 9 points
    3. Sutter 8 points
    4. Wilhelm 7 points
    5. Eckersley 6 points
    6. Gossage 5 points
    7. Nen 4 points
    8. Face 3 points
    9. Perranoski 2 points
    10. Marshall 1 point

    Honorable mention: Tug McGraw, Sparky Lyle, Al Hrabosky, Dave Righetti

    Special Mention - 1969 Jim Bouton - thx for the books
    1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
    2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise

  10. #10
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    Hoyt Wilhelm 10 points
    Mariano Rivera 9 points
    Rollie Fingers 8 points
    Rich Gossage 7 points
    Dennis Eckersley 6 points
    Firpo Marberry 5 points
    Stu Miller 4 points
    Billy Wagner 3 points
    Johnny Murphy 2 points
    Lee Smith 1 points

    honorable mention

    Bobby Shantz
    Bruce Sutter
    John Franco
    Kent Tekulve
    Lindy McDaniel
    Ron Perranoski
    Trevor Hoffman

  11. #11
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    1. Mariano Rivera
    2. Hoyt Wilhelm
    3. Dennis Eckersley
    4. Dick Radatz
    5. Billy Wagner
    6. Ron Perranoski
    7. Joe Page
    8. Hugh Casey
    9. Bruce Sutter
    10.Rollie Fingers
    Last edited by leagueleader; 05-12-2015 at 05:45 PM.

  12. #12
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    1. Rivera - 10
    2. Wilhelm - 9
    3. Gossage - 8
    4. Wagner - 7
    5. Fingers - 6
    6. Eckersley - 5
    7. Hoffman - 4
    8. Sutter - 3
    9. Marberry - 2
    10. Lee Smith - 1

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    Bump bump bump
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

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    Since he is not eligible to be a starter for the purposes of this project, I am going to give Eck starting credit here. Same with Wilhelm for than monster year he had as a starter. We consider all of Musial's 1B stats when we place him as a LFer, so I am not sure why we would change our minds/approaches here. I can't only consider his RP play here when I considered A-Rod's 3B play in the SS poll. Eck wins this by a massive landslide. HE had four 5+ WAR, six 4.5+ WAR seasons as a starter, multiple top -10 Cy Young finishes, a few All Star Games, a 20-win season, an ERA+ title all before he saved his first game. To avoid this situation, maybe we need a hybrid category?

    1. Eckersley
    2. Rivera
    3. Wilhelm
    4. Gossage
    5. Hoffman
    6. Wagner
    7. L. Smith
    8. Sutter
    9. Quisenberry
    10. Hiller
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
    Since he is not eligible to be a starter for the purposes of this project, I am going to give Eck starting credit here. Same with Wilhelm for than monster year he had as a starter. We consider all of Musial's 1B stats when we place him as a LFer, so I am not sure why we would change our minds/approaches here. I can't only consider his RP play here when I considered A-Rod's 3B play in the SS poll. Eck wins this by a massive landslide. HE had four 5+ WAR, six 4.5+ WAR seasons as a starter, multiple top -10 Cy Young finishes, a few All Star Games, a 20-win season, an ERA+ title all before he saved his first game.
    As would only be right and natural.

    I've always assumed everybody was giving each player credit for their entire contributions throughout their careers. Could it be that I was wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgarza View Post
    As would only be right and natural.

    I've always assumed everybody was giving each player credit for their entire contributions throughout their careers. Could it be that I was wrong?
    I am not sure if everybody is doing that. If so, I don't see how anybody could have Eck lower than AT LEAST 2nd here.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgarza View Post
    As would only be right and natural.

    I've always assumed everybody was giving each player credit for their entire contributions throughout their careers. Could it be that I was wrong?
    Somehow it never occurred to me to do that with Eck even though for the most part I do that for position players. Just to make a contrary point there is some, not much, "Banks/Molitor/Yount didn't play much of their career at ", "Thomas/Edgar was mostly a DH" and so on.

  18. #18
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    After the last round (next round), I am going to hold a vote to see if people want to change things regarding multi-position players. I'm thinking of creating two new rounds (one for pitchers one for players) for hybrid players like Stan Musial or Dennis Eckersley. I've been hesitant to do so because I'm afraid too many rounds of voting will discourage voters from participating. Maybe I'll remedy this by doing two positions at a time. We'll see.

    1. Mariano Rivera- 10 pts
    2. Hoyt Wilhelm- 9 pts
    3. Dennis Eckersley- 8 pts
    4. Goose Gossage- 7 pts
    5. Trevor Hoffman- 6 pts
    6. Rollie Fingers- 5 pts
    7. Billy Wagner- 4 pts
    8. Lee Smith- 3 pts
    9. Kent Tekulve- 2 pts
    10. Dan Quisenberry- 1 pt
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  19. #19
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    Voter never got back to me so here are last round's results:

    1. Walter Johnson- 305 pts
    2. Greg Maddux- 241 pts
    3. Lefty Grove- 236 pts
    4. Cy Young- 233 pts
    5. Roger Clemens- 214 pts
    6. Pete Alexander- 210 pts
    7. Randy Johnson- 202 pts
    8. Tom Seaver- 189 pts
    9. Christy Mathewson- 162 pts
    10. Pedro Martinez- 120 pts
    11. Warren Spahn- 94 pts
    12. Kid Nichols- 66 pts
    13. Bob Gibson- 62 pts
    14. Bob Feller- 49 pts
    15. Sandy Koufax- 36 pts
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  20. #20
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    Bumping. Trying to squeeze more votes.
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
    Since he is not eligible to be a starter for the purposes of this project, I am going to give Eck starting credit here. Same with Wilhelm for than monster year he had as a starter. We consider all of Musial's 1B stats when we place him as a LFer, so I am not sure why we would change our minds/approaches here. I can't only consider his RP play here when I considered A-Rod's 3B play in the SS poll. Eck wins this by a massive landslide. HE had four 5+ WAR, six 4.5+ WAR seasons as a starter, multiple top -10 Cy Young finishes, a few All Star Games, a 20-win season, an ERA+ title all before he saved his first game. To avoid this situation, maybe we need a hybrid category?

    . . . .
    Good point.

    1. Dennis Eckersley 10
    2. Mariano Rivera 9
    3. Hoyt Wilhelm 8
    4. Goose Gossage 7
    5. Billy Wagner 6
    6. Trevor Hoffman 5
    7. Lee Smith 4
    8. Tom Henke 3
    9. Bruce Sutter 2
    10. Dan Quisenberry 1
    H is for Hornsby
    When pitching to Rog
    The pitcher would pitch,
    Then the pitcher would dodge.

    -- Ogden Nash in his "Line-up for Yesterday: An ABC of Baseball Immortals"

  22. #22
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    1. Rivera, Mariano – New York Yankees
    2. Wilhelm, Hoyt – Chicago White Sox
    3. Eckersley, Dennis – Oakland Athletics
    4. Wagner, Billy – Houston Astros
    5. Hoffman, Trevor – San Diego Padres
    6. Gossage, Goose – New York Yankees
    7. Marberry, Firpo – Washington Senators
    8. Sutter, Bruce – St. Louis Cardinals
    9. Fingers, Rollie – Oakland Athletics
    10. Nathan, Joe – Minnesota Twins

  23. #23
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    One more push for votes
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  24. #24
    1. Mariano Rivera- 10 points
    2. Hoyt Wilhelm- 9
    3. Rich Gossage- 8
    4. Dennis Eckersley- 7- with substantial starter credit
    5. Trevor Hoffman- 6
    6. Lee Smith- 5
    7. Billy Wagner- 4
    8. Bruce Sutter- 3
    9. Rollie Fingers- 2
    10. Kent Tekulve- 1- I think he was as good as Quisenberry, and lasted longer

  25. #25
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    Mariano Rivera 10
    Hoyt Wilhelm 9
    Rich Gossage 8
    Dennis Eckersley 7
    Billy Wagner 6
    Trevor Hoffman 5
    Dan Quisenberry 4
    Lee Smith 3
    Craig Kimbrell 2
    Bruce Sutter 1
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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