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Thread: Ty Cobb General Thread

  1. #426
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    I see wherever Bill goes he starts a thread called "Ty Cobb General Thread"

    So predictible Bill. Do you have any idea how badly I want project retrosheet to hurry up and fill in their missing games back to 1900 so I can see if Cobb really did advance people or himself an inordinately large number of times that don't show up in the statistical record? I wish I could go back in time to 1865 or 1987 when they were first deciding what statistics should be kept and beat people senseless until they realized how much they were freakin' leaving out.

  2. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackout805
    anybody know what his relationship with Ty was when they were team-mates after Cobb became a star? Cobb says they never shook hands, but obviously I'd imagine there had to be some sort of relationship during those years
    Bill,

    I'd like to know the answer to that question also, and I'm sure you're the right guy to ask.

  3. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by KHenry14
    Hey Bill, I happened to watch "Cobb" last nite again, and while I know that most of it is a characterature, it did give me pause to think about something. What can you tell me about his kids? The movie implied he had no relationship with them, was that true? Also, were they the beneficiaries of his estate, which had to be quite large?

    Just curious...

    KH14
    Bill,

    I also would like to know about Ty's kids. He barely even mentions them in his autobiography. Did they ever play baseball in the minors, or even college? What did Ty think of them? What was Ty's relationship with them?

  4. #429
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    Chris,

    I wrote up Ty's relationship with his team mates in my file, "Did All of Ty's Team mates Hate Him." You will find this file as post 4 on Ty Cobb Thread.

    Ty had 5 kids, and 3 sons. None played ball. But Ty did have a brother named Paul who did play baseball. He was a good ballplayer too in the minors. No one gave him a shot however to play in the MLs. Two of Ty's boys died in the early 50's of cancer.

    Ty left 3/4 of his estate to his 3 surviving kids. His estate was estimated at around $12.m. $10m from GM, and $2.m from Coca Cola. So we cam estimate that each kid got around $3m., before Uncle Sam got his bite.

    He left 1/4 of his estate to his Georgia Educational Scholarship Foundation. Many poor Georgia kids have been put through college and it's still going strong, as is his hospital.

    Ty's relationship with his kids was tortured. He was always wanting to be away somewhere. He was a terrible father. Really bad, and they all carried the scars of his non-fatherly habits. They had love-hate with him but hated to have outsiders hate their Dad in print. They felt they had the right to hate him but outsiders did not. Which I can understand. But his 3 surviving kids, and his first wife did fly to Atlanta, and surrounded Ty for his last 2 weeks in the hospital, and they tried to patch up their horrible past crap.

    Bill Burgess
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 09-04-2005 at 03:27 PM.

  5. #430
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    All my Historical Files are now enshrined on a website and can be viewed.

    Included are all my Ty Cobb Memorial Collection files,

    as well as my other, assorted, general baseball files,

    and my own, personal Website-in-the-making, Reference & Research. It's a vast, sports/entertainment database, and its called here, Biographical Sketches. Well worth a glance.

    The email address is: www.baseballguru.com/bburgess

    Many here already have these files, but for those who don't, it's a good one.

    Bill Burgess

  6. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3
    I believe that the source you give came from a special that aired on TV in the 1990s, which I did tape and have reviewed many, many times.

    The program was presented on FOX TV and was titled "Front Page."
    It was 16 MM home movie taken by Matt Kandle SR and loaned to FOX TV by his great grandson Kurt Kandle.

    I have put together all that I could from that video, some hard cover books, words from the N.Y.Times and Herald Tribune archives.

    Some fans toss lemons onto the field as he steps to the plate.

    The video does show Ruth acknowledging the first called two strikes with his fingers.

    He is clearly angered by the Cub bench who is riding him. He makes quick dagger like thrusting motions directed at the Cub bench, yelling at them.

    Cub player Billy Herman says the Cubs were calling him, big fat slob, washed up. Ruth's chief tormentor Cub pitcher Guy Bush is so far out of the Cub dug out yelling at Ruth that the ump orders him to get back to the bench.

    At one point he then raises one finger and yells at the Cub Bench. Cub catcher Hartnett says Ruth said, " It only takes one to hit it."

    Root yells something to Ruth and Ruth yells back to Root. Accordung to Gehrig Ruth said to Root, " I'm going to knock the next pitch right down your goddamn throat."

    In the end Ruth hits a long home run to center field, past the flag pole 440 feet.

    Did he point, I did not see that.

    It seems the issue here is did he call the shot. Certainly we will never know. Myself I don't think he ever said he was going to hit a home run.

    I think he did the next best thing. It was the battle of the wills. The entire club bench said that Ruth had seen better days. Ruth said he still had something left, Ruth clearly won the battle.

    We all know that even the greatest hitters will make out ( walks excluded) almost 7 out of every 10 at bats. Ruth had already hit a home run in the first inning.

    In the second inning he just missed another, pinning Kiki Cuyler up against the fence in right to pull down his drive.


    It takes a lot of balls to shoot off your mouth when your already down two strikes and then he delivers. Naturally when it's Ruth a home run is not enough, it has to be a monster shot. You can see as he runs it out he makes pushing gestures to the Cub bench, telling them to sit down.

    So he may not have actually said he was about to hit one out but, he did shut up the Cubs even though in the hole two strikes down.
    STEVEOX and all interested here it is, a post of mine from April. I would add that Ruth was clearly angered and made those dagger like gestures pointing at the Cub bench after the first called strike and the second called strike.This can clearly be seen on that video.

    In another interview since I posted the above, Cub Billy Jurges said that Ruth did point but was pointing at Cub pitcher Root, this could be where the confusion comes in.

    As I stated in my original post, no way to tell if he pointed, I don't think so, no way to tell if he declared he was going to hit one out, I don't believe he did. I realize as great a hitter as Ruth was he, no one can hit a home run at will, predict it.

    One thing is clear, most agree on, he took two strikes, raised one finger, then two fingers. He then raised one finger again yelling at the Cub bench who were riding him. In the words of the man who was standing right behind Ruth, Cub catcher Gabby Hartnett, Ruth yelled "it only takes one."
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 10-21-2005 at 07:42 PM.

  7. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3
    Earlier in that day, before the game took place. From the N.Y Times archives.

    Chicago OCT.1 (ap). Babe Ruth home run king of the N.Y.Yankees brought cheer to Lee William Koeppen 16, today when he visited the youth who was blinded and seriously injured in the bomb explosion in front of the home of Judge John P. McGoorty.
    Ruth presented an autographed ball to the boy lying in bed with his head swathed in bandages.

    On the field before the game As Ruth shags fly balls during batting practice fans toss several lemons in his direction. Ruth playfully underhands some lemons back into the stands.

    Ruth at bat during batting practice smashed 9 long drives into the RF bleachers. After each drive he turns to the Cub bench and grins.

    Game time, the real thing, first inning.

    From the N.Y.Herald Tribune, written by Richards Vidmer.
    N.Y.Herald Tribune Oct. 1.(ap) As he waited to bat in the first inning," He paused to jest with the raging Cubs, pointed to the right field bleachers and grinned."
    He stepped to the plate in that at bat and hit a home run deep into the right center field bleachers.
    STEVE here is another post from April. This took place on the same day as the "called shot."

  8. #433
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    Brothers,

    A very good thing has occurred. My very good friend, and fellow Ty associate, Wesley Frick has joined Fever as a member.

    Wesley was born and raised in Royston, GA, home of Ty Cobb, and is the formost Ty Cobb historian/researcher/advocate I know. His knowledge is extensive, and he is to Ty Cobb, what Gene Carney is to the Black Sox. And now we have his knowledge here on Fever. Wesley also maintains his own Ty Cobb Website on Yahoo. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/tycobbclub/

    Wesley has been the historian of the Ty Cobb Museum in Royston since its inception in 1998. He now resides in Tampa, and was born in 1971. He is kept quite busy, and makes his living in the food industry. Here is his very first post on Fever, in the Detroit Tigers forum, and it is MUST-READING for every Ty fan.

    http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=72

    I hope you all will address whatever Ty questions to him that I couldn't address to your satisfaction. He is also familiar with the deadball era of baseball.

    And he is working on a Ty Cobb book!
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wesley's Bio:

    John Wesley Fricks was born in Atlanta February 3, 1971 and moved to Royston, Georgia in 1974. He grew up on COBB St., one block away from the old COBB home place.

    He got involved on the ground floor of the creation of the TY COBB Museum in January 1998. Wesley worked six months with Museum Director and Planning and Development Committee to establish this memorial to baseball’s most celebrated athlete. He was slated to be the Keynote Speaker at the opening ceremonies on July 17th until Phil Neikro’s services was secured. It was the year Neikro was inducted into baseball’s Hall of Fame.

    He continued to work with the new Committee established, the TY COBB Advisory Committee, to continue to upgrade and enhance the material inside the Museum. Just last year, the TY COBB Educational Foundation was celebrating fifty years of giving scholarships to needy Georgia students. They were interested in getting a display in our Museum. Wesley was asked to work with a team to provide this outlet for the TCEF to get some exposure. He was asked to write a video script with only three days to get it done. He scored and scored big with his creation of the TCEF DVD video that is a wonderful addition to the Museum.

    Wesley was the keynote speaker at the Museum’s October 2003 unveiling of the TCEF display. He also designed the baseball card that was released on the same day. His contribution to the TY COBB Museum has been tireless and energetic.

    Wesley has been a pillar of strength for TY COBB’s legacy over the last decade, participating in baseball symposiums, television shows, and was even asked by Major League Baseball Productions for an interview at Turner Field in Atlanta to be on Baseball’s All-Century Team video in 1999. He was interviewed again at Turner Field in 2002 for Turner South’s Liars & Legends show that featured TY COBB.

    Wesley has continued to do follow up with people from all over the country who contact the Museum for various purposes. His professionalism and knowledge of Ty Cobb baseball during that era has made a significant impact on what we do here at the Museum.

    TY COBB Museum
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bill Burgess
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 02-20-2006 at 11:02 AM.


  9. #435
    There's a great article on page 38 of the latest SABR Baseball Research Journal titled: "Was Ty Cobb a Power Hitter?" written by Roy Brownell. It makes a cogent and compelling case that Cobb was not only an outstanding power hitter, but a great homerun hitter. It also refutes the myopic stance (repeated by several regulars here ad nauseum) that Ty Cobb "Couldn't (or didn't) adapt to the liveball".

    I wondered if anyone here had read it and what their thoughts were.

  10. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    There's a great article on page 38 of the latest SABR Baseball Research Journal titled: "Was Ty Cobb a Power Hitter?" written by Roy Brownell. It makes a cogent and compelling case that Cobb was not only an outstanding power hitter, but a great homerun hitter. It also refutes the myopic stance (repeated by several regulars here ad nauseum) that Ty Cobb "Couldn't (or didn't) adapt to the liveball".

    I wondered if anyone here had read it and what their thoughts were.
    Can you post the article here? I'd love to read it!
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  11. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Can you post the article here? I'd love to read it!
    I don't have the time to type it out, unfortunately. It's fairly lengthy, and has some nice charts/graphs. Since it's members only, though, I don't think I can find it online. Randy might have the publication, and he can type like nobody's business.

    Does anyone here have issue handy and the time to type it all out?

  12. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    I don't have the time to type it out, unfortunately. It's fairly lengthy, and has some nice charts/graphs. Since it's members only, though, I don't think I can find it online. Randy might have the publication, and he can type like nobody's business.

    Does anyone here have issue handy and the time to type it all out?
    If you can scan it you can upload it or send the scanned copy to me and I'll type it out. Anything for my fellow BBFers.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  13. #439
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    Okay I read the article and think some things got over-stated. Ty Cobb could be considered a "great" home run hitter for his time. He was one of a small handful of players that ended up with over 100 homers for their career. One thing though is that before 1919 there was just 10 players over 100 homers for their career all had done obviously before the 1920's era. At that point Cobb had 67 homers. Just 10 years later there was 28 total players with over 100 homers, and George Sisler and three others would go over 100 the next year. By 1939 there was 65 players with over 100 and by the next year another 5 would go over. In all likelihood if the rule changes don't happen Ty Cobb doesn't hit over 100 homers. Now obviously that doesn't mean he wasn't a slugger but the point is that the author was pointing out the fact that Ty Cobb in his day would have had similar totals of other big "sluggers", the problem is that none of them that he is getting compared to got to play in the 1920's. Of course though I should mention that we run into another problem in that Ty Cobb's era actually had lower home run rates then the 19th century homer rates (see David Vincents article in same BRJ).

    Second part is that he mentions that the view that a huge chunk of Ty Cobb's homers were inside the park homers but that to say that takes away from his slugger tag is false. He states some reasons why and I don't really disagree with those reasons but I think again he over-states the case. He tries to pin the dissenting opinion on the view that people are saying that Cobb's ITPHR were solely the product of speed. That isn't true, obiviously Cobb's homers were not solely the product of speed. You definitely have to hit the ball at least hard and sometimes far (on the fly) to get a ITPHR but to pin the other side solely on speed is wrong. Yes you have to hit it hard but you also have to have speed to get home. So while it might very well not be 100% because of speed it certainly could be 50% because of speed.

    The second reason argued is that the parks were mammoth and there were hits that would have been homers in a smaller park. Again no doubt but again I disagree with this kind of all or nothing type reasoning. yes there would have been ITPHR that would have gone over a wall if they were closer but it is also true that there would have been less ITPHR because of shorter distances and it is also true that there would probably be some more outs as well.


    Another thing he argues about is that uses Cobb's placement in the leader board as proof that he was a home run hitter in his day. But he fails to mention that when the leader is only hitting 9 homers or so practically everybody is in the leaderboard. One windy day, one good day at say the Baker Bowl, or one rainy sloppy day in Washington, could instantly cement your place on the leaderboard for the whole year.

    Finally he uses triples and doubles to further point out Cobb's power yet at the same time he completely neglects one facet of Cobb's game that helped make him great, and that his sheer determination to go as far as possible all the time.

    In the end though I don't disagree with what Ty Cobb himself said. He said that he was confident that in a good year he could hit 20 to 30 homers, and that it should be noted was with Ty believing he would have to change his game to get to that total.

    At the end of the article he says that Cobb could have hit with power like Brett and Musial, and again I think that would not be an unreasonable expectation (with me shading closer to Brett in the homer department). But I don't think anyone would think Ty Cobb was a "slugger" or really a power hitter.

  14. #440
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    Here's a great video that I ran across as I was looking through the Sports Illustrated vault. It was made by Wesley Fricks. It has outstanding video clips that I've never seen before.

    Check it out.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjP87TAaDng
    "Batting slumps? I never had one. When a guy hits .358, he doesn't have slumps."

    Rogers Hornsby, 1961

  15. #441
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    Great video! The song is totally lame, though.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  16. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Great video! The song is totally lame, though.
    Agreed. 80ish rock ballad? ick.

    Eye Of The Tiger, anyone?

    That would be trite, though. I like this guy's rendition:

    Ty Cobb Set to Johnny Cash

  17. #443
    Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:25:46 -0400
    Subject: New Ty Cobb Biography

    I have just published another book on Ty Cobb. This one is a really exciting
    biography of Ty Cobb written by H. G. Salsinger in 1951, titled "Which was
    Greatest: Ty Cobb or Babe Ruth?" It contains 120 pages in 5.5 X 8.5 inch
    format, with a Dedication, a Foreword and Afterword by the Editor, as well
    as a short biography of the author. It is reprinted with permission from The
    Sporting News.

    There is also a poem on Ty Cobb, a takeoff on E. L. Thayer's famous "Casey
    at the Bat." This poem was written by Salsinger after Ty Cobb's greatest
    career game in 1907, and has not been seen in print since the original
    publication. And, the book contains more than 25 photos from Ty Cobb's life
    and career.

    Here is the description from the back cover of the book:

    "In 1942, The Sporting News surveyed over one hundred former baseball stars
    and managers and asked: "Who do you consider the Greatest Baseball Player of all Time? Why?" Ty Cobb won the poll by an overwhelming 59 percent. Babe Ruth was third with only 11 percent, 6 points behind Honus Wagner. The tide
    soon turned toward Ruth, however, as he bested Cobb with 256 to 116 votes as the "Greatest of All Time" in a Sports Writers Poll of 1950.


    That same year, no doubt to voice his disagreement with his sportswriting
    colleagues, H. G Salsinger, the renowned Sports Editor of the Detroit News,
    wrote a biographical series on Ty Cobb for The Sporting News. This series
    covered every aspect of the Ty Cobb's life and career in 22 separate
    chapters that were published over several weeks. Salsinger chose the title
    "Which was Greatest: Ty Cobb or Babe Ruth?" - capitalizing on the public
    controversy over who was the "Greatest" to draw attention to his biography.


    Salsinger's biography of Ty Cobb is reprinted here for the first time since
    1951. The first chapter addresses the Cobb versus Ruth question, making
    Salsinger's well thought out argument for Cobb as "The Greatest."
    The
    remaining chapters present an in-depth view of Ty Cobb - the player and the
    man - that H. G. Salsinger developed while watching, analyzing and reporting
    during Cobb's entire baseball career. Unlike all of the other Cobb
    biographies since 1950, this work was written by an author who knew Cobb
    well, who understood him, who analyzed him and who actually saw him play. No biography written since has this unique and much needed perspective."


    If you would like a copy of this book, which sells for $14.95 plus $3.95
    shipping, please contact me at roncobb367@aol.com

  18. #444
    Ty Cobb Was Not A Racist, Modern Writers Failed Him

    By Wesley Fricks

    August 2, 2008

    Tyrus Raymond Cobb was by far the greatest player in Major League Baseball history but very few write about his personal side - the side that has been buried beneath the weight of time. Cobb died on the afternoon of July 17th, 1961. It was at that point when dime store writers finally had their way with Cobb and his legacy as the great player and personality in the game.

    Today I would like to share with you some things that have been misinterpreted by these writers down through the generations. The one that stands out most is the assault that writers of today have placed on Cobb's relationship with blacks and minorities. I will carefully explain the truth and let you come to your on conclusion.

    As I have recognized a need to present facts about Ty's relationships with blacks, I have decide to write a story that displays Ty Cobb’s support for blacks and other minorities. It is important to provide facts supporting the reality that the negative publicity came after Ty Cobb died in 1961. I also enclosed several articles, but interestingly, one that I found where his son, Jim Cobb, made the exact same assessment in 1977.

    My readers. if you were to research the facts, you’ll find that Mr. Cobb was different than he is portrayed in the eye of the modern public. He was rich with popularity and writers back then could always count on his name to generate interest in their newspaper.

    Mr. Cobb was a charitably natured man who actually was soft for the minority, whether the minority was someone who had different colored skin, or handicapped, or someone who was less fortunate, or even someone who was small in size. He would always tell the little fellow who was standing in the back and could not get close to come to the front. He wanted to make sure they got a chance too.

    In the late 1920’s, Ty Cobb leased a hunting preserve with over 12,000 acres in MaGruder, Georgia, and built a house on it for a black man named Uncle Bob Robinson and his family to live there.

    In place of the rent, they would make sure no intruders trespassed on the property. Anytime Cobb and his friends were hunting on the land this fellow, by his own choice, would always hunt along beside Ty. At times, he would entertain the guest with his story telling.

    After a long day of hunting they would gather around a campfire and talk baseball or whatever came to mind. On this particular day, Cobb had bagged twelve birds and had not missed a one as Mr. Cobb was a crack shot. Mr. Robinson told the story to Tris Speaker and the others, “Yeah, Mr. COBB had a bad day today.” "What do you mean, Cobb bagged twelve birds and didn’t miss,” said Speaker. “Yeah, but he near ‘bout missed one,” recounted Mr. Robinson.

    Present day authors have distorted Cobb’s reputation to a point of the ridiculous. For example, in the book “COBB” that the movie “COBB” was based on tried to show that COBB hosted orgies and drinking parties. I have the contract agreement on the land and it clearly states that there was to be “absolutely NO alcohol on the premises.”

    This was at Major League Baseball’s Brunswick, Georgia retreat. It was called “Dover Hall Club” and Ty Cobb was 1/16 part owner of the 2,500 acre hunting and fishing camp. The MLB magnates owned it from the early 1910s until the late 1930s. Cobb was the only player of the sixteen investors who bought into the $1,000 stock-leasing plan.

    Mr. Cobb was in financial straits in the spring of 1906, but by the end of 1907 he had worked and saved his money. He began investing it in real estate in Georgia. In 1908, he bought 15 acres in Toccoa, Georgia and built and remodeled some of the nicest little homes in a predominately black neighborhood. He named the subdivision “Booker T. Washington Heights,” and financed these homes to these residents for a minimal amount.
    He owned the property until 1940 and he turned it over to his son, Herschel Cobb, to assist him with starting him a Coca-Cola franchise in Idaho. One transaction sold a lot (#22) to J. H. Johnson for only $42.50 in 1909. It was a relatively good price even for that era. There were 109 lots in Booker T. Washington Heights.

    I hear a great deal about Cobb’s racism in the present, especially on the Internet, but no one ever does or has actually have provided factual or even specifics about their racial allegations. If Cobb had been a racist, some newspaperman would have made remarks about the specifics in some way.

    I have over 40,000 newspaper articles, and NOT one article makes any correlation to Ty Cobb being a racist. All the evidence demonstrate Cobb’s support for the advancement of colored people, and yet, there is NO evidence that give any indication that Mr. Cobb made any movement toward oppressing the black population.


    Contrary, when Jackie Robinson entered into the Major Leagues, it began a slow process of allowing blacks to began entering into every league in the country. When the Dallas club of the Texas League was considering allowing blacks to enter, Cobb was there to bat for them.

    Ty Cobb, Fiery Diamond Star, Favors Negroes In Baseball

    Independent Journal - January 29th, 1952

    MENLOPARK (AP) Tyrus Raymond Cobb, fiery old time star of the diamond, stepped up to the plate today to clout a verbal home run in favor of Negroes in baseball.

    Himself a native of the Deep South, Cobb voiced approval of the recent decision of the Dallas club to use Negro players if they came up to Texas league caliber.

    The old Georgia Peach of Detroit Tigers fame was a fighter from the word go during his brilliant playing career. He neither asked for nor gave quarter in 24 tumultuous years in the American League. Time has mellowed the one time firebrand and he views the sport in the pleasant role of a country squire. He spoke emphatically on the subject of Negroes in baseball, however.

    "Certainly it is O.K. for them to play," he said, "I see no reason in the world why we shouldn't compete with colored athletes as long as they conduct themselves with politeness and gentility. Let me say also that no white man has the right to be less of a gentleman than a colored man, in my book that goes not only for baseball but in all walks of life.”

    "I like them, (Negro race) personally. When I was little I had a colored mammy. I played with colored children."

    Referring again to last week's developments in the Texas league, Cobb declared, "It was bound to come." He meant the breaking down of Baseball's racial barriers in the old south.

    Cobb expressed the belief Negroes eventually would be playing in every league in the country. He concluded with: "Why not, as long as they comport themselves like gentlemen?"

    Ty Cobb did have an altercation with at least four African-Americans during his lifetime, but I have all the documents from these incidents, and in every case, the problem can be traced back to an action, unrelated to racism, that was committed by Cobb himself, the black person, or a third party, that caused the issue to escalate into an altercation. I am not going to discourse tediously on who was at fault in either of the incidents because I only want to exhibit that there was a reason that the incidents happened that had nothing to do with color. And I must mention that Cobb’s incidents with whites far exceed the number of occurrences with the blacks.

    Ty Cobb was not a racist, he did not sharpen his spikes to slash other players just to steal a base, he did not kill a man in Detroit as alleged by recent nickel writers, and he did not live the life of a bigot. Contrary to those myths, Ty Cobb exerted a kindness toward blacks. One of his fondest memories of his youth was being taught how to swim by a black laborer named Uncle Ezra. Ezra would get young Ty to cling to his neck and wade out into the middle of the river or stream. At this point, Ty would be released and forced to swim back to the riverbank.

    Blacks lived in Cobb’s house behind his home on Williams Street there in Augusta. Cobb employed blacks the whole time he lived on the “Hill”. Emaline Cosey lived with and worked for Ty Cobb in 1920.

    Jimmy Laniergrew up in Augusta with one of Ty Cobb’s sons. Jimmy has told a story many times about him and Herschel going to the Rialto Theatre in downtown Augusta to see one of them 'shoot’em up' movies. “We came out of the theatre and Mr. Cobb, like a father, was waiting on the other side of the road,” claimed Lanier.

    “As we were getting into the car, Mr. Cobb overheard the owner of a nearby restaurant explaining to a man dressed in shabby clothes how to get to the Linwood Hospital – a veterans hospital. Mr. Cobb interrupts and says, ‘Son, I’ll take you there.’

    “The man stood on the running board of Mr. Cobb’s La Salle coupe, and they were talking back and forth, and this man was a veteran of World War I. When they pulled up to the gate at the Linwood Hospital, I saw Mr. Cobb hand this man a $20 bill. Herschel was looking off at somewhere else, but I saw what Mr. Cobb done. It was incidents like this that never made it to the press,” concluded Lanier.

    Friends, I believe that one of Mr. Cobb’s problems was that he never looked for credit for anything that he done. He could never boast of his philanthropic nature that would put celebrities like Babe Ruth or Joe DiMaggio riding on the crest of publicity. And two, he never refuted accusation against him publicly.

    If someone alleged that he had spiked another player intentionally, he gave an explanation only to the person or people that it mattered to most, like owner of the Tigers or President of the American League, but very seldom to the press. If he would have stood up and said to people, “You are wrong” or “That is not true,” maybe these present day authors would have had less room to reinvent his reputation to their own liking.

    Ty Cobb was a close associate to the 2nd Commissioner of baseball, Albert B. “Happy” Chandler, who was head of the baseball realm when Jackie Robinson entered into Major League baseball. Cobb was a big supporter of Chandler. In a press interview on August 30tth, 1950, Cobb shared his support for Chandler, “So far, Chandler has lived up to everything that I thought he could do as a commissioner. To me, every one of his decisions have been fair.” The article goes on explaining Cobb’s support for “Happy.” Three years later, he was elected to serve as member of the Board of Trustees of the Cobb Educational Foundation.

    The Foundation contributed $2,800.00 in scholarships the first year. Fifty years later the annual grants have reached well over a $500,000 dollars. As of July 2003, the Foundation has provided scholarships to 6,876 students, equaling $9,743,000 dollars.

    Thanks to his charitable nature, Ty Cobb has made it possible for thousands of students of Georgia to achieve a higher mark in education. There is no limit to what this Foundation can provide to future students who truly want an education. One thing is certain, it is bound to generate a winning team of students in this great state of Georgia.

    And as I mention frequently, I could go on forever talking about great things that Mr. Cobb did to enrich the lives of other people. He did this without any expectations from the recipient or others who witnessed his philanthropic deeds.

    In an interview in the mid 1950s, Mr. Cobb made this statement, “You’ve ask me about this Cobb Educational Fund, and now I’m going to have to answer it. I do not wish to be eulogized for what I have done. I’m proud of it, yes. This Educational Fund has given me the greatest possible happiness and pleasure, and maybe when I’m gone we’ll have some real great men developed out of the Cobb Educational Foundation.”

    The Ty Cobb Healthcare Systems, Inc provide jobs to thousands of healthcare professionals in northeast Georgia, and I know personally, a young black fellow that I went to school with who works for the healthcare system and has made a huge impact on the community. He got his start at the Cobb Memorial Hospital and now is a providing much leadership in the direction of the city.

    Ty Cobb’s father was a Georgia State Senator from the 31st District who voted against a bill introduced and approved by the Senate that allowed taxes deriving only from black properties to finance the black schools. This was in 1900.

    He stated in the Atlanta Constitution that the “Negroes had done, and were doing a good deal for the up building of the state, and I am in favor of allowing them money for education.” He believed that the race should be protected from class legislation.

    In 1950, Cobb dedicated the new hospital in Royston, Georgia to provide medical attention to the region. In Dr. J. B. Gilbert, Cobb found one of the finest African-American doctors to serve the black population, and this was before desegregation. Dr. Gilbert also serviced white patients and later became Chief of Staff at the Cobb Memorial Hospital. Dr. Gilbert’s daughter remembers Ty Cobb visiting the home when she was just a young lady. Cobb signed baseballs for all three of Dr. Gilbert’s grandchildren.

    In 1953, Cobb established the Ty Cobb Educational Foundation to give scholarships to needy students in Georgia. Hundreds and hundreds of young black students have become a beneficiary of this educational fund.

    Alec Rivers was a black employee of Cobb for 18 years and named his first-born Ty Cobb Rivers, “Even if it would have been a gal, Ah would have named her the same,” Rivers relayed to his friends in an interview with The Detroit News. Rivers served as Cobb’s batboy, chauffeur, general handyman, and was an avid supporter of the famed “Georgia Peach.”

    After 22 seasons with Detroit, Cobb joined the Philadelphia Athletics to finish out his twenty-four year career. Rivers followed Cobb, “I wasn’t exactly against the Tigers, but I still had to be for Mr. Ty.”

    Ty Cobb’s racist reputation came only after he had died in 1961. Racial reform should not be fought at the expense of a man who helped make Baseball a great sport for colored people to enjoy too.

    Cobb loved Augusta! He did not just live there for a while – it was his home. He raised all of his children there. He lived at 2425 William Street in the Summerville district. He held common and preferred stock in the Augusta Chronicle. He sold Hawkeye trucks there in the Augusta area.

    He was president and principle owner of the Ty Cobb Tire Co. on Broad Street. He owned the Ty Cobb Beverage Co. who had their office at 313 in the Leonard Building. He was one of three principle owners in the City Bank of Thomson. He hunted and fished in all parts of the Augusta area and even down the Savannah River. He was on the Board of Directors of the First National Bank in Lavonia, Georgia for all his professional life.

    He coached and umpired some at the Richmond County YMCA and in the Nehi League. He entered his girls into beauty pageants, horse shows and musical recitals. He helped the city authorities host outside guests. When a large group of Philadelphia businessmen came to Augusta, Cobb participated in a first-of-its-kind aeroplane golf tournament for the visiting spectators. Cobb owned a great deal of property in the city.

    One piece of land was 444.72 acres south of Spirit Creek and the Augusta Orphan Asylum. Mr. Cobb owned the properties on the east side of Tuttle, between Fenwick and Jenkins Streets, corner of Broad and Seventh(McIntosh), ten acres, five miles out on old Milledgeville Rd., two lots on the corner of Druid Park and Gwinnett Street, southwest corner of Twiggs andBoyd’s Alley containing five lots, four lots close to the corner of Phillip Street and Walton Way and Cobb's Augusta property list goes on and on. Looking over the Richmond County Court documents, it appears to me that in some cases Cobb loaned money to help prevent foreclosure on some of the properties.

    He lived adjacent to a dentist that started the South Atlantic League back up after it shutdown during the depression. Eugene Wilder worked as secretary to the Mayor of Augusta for many years, and was an admirer of Cobb’s. When Cobb entered the United States Army in 1918, he left Dr. Wilder instructions and money he had set aside for his famous prize dog, 'Cobb’s Hall', in case he failed to return from the war. Cobb served as a Captain in the Chemical Warfare Division over in France at the close of the war.

    Cobb also became part owner of the Augusta Tourists in 1922. The team name was later changed to Augusta Tygers to honor Cobb. He developed many young athletes into strong competitors.

    He managed the Detroit Tigers from 1921-1926, and during that time, a Detroit batter won the batting title 4 out of 6 years. He was a great teacher, and loved to devote his time to helping others advance.

    Ty Cobb was always concerned about the advancement of the city of Augusta. He was always striving to promote and stimulate the city’s economy. He donated his vehicle to the fire station to be auctioned off.

    He owned numerous businesses in Augusta and drew people of every nature to the city. He once hosted the sole owner of the Diamond Tire Company who came down from up north. There were a couple of Presidents of the United States that COBB became acquainted with on the streets of Augusta.

    In closing, I just want to say that all these little things add up to give us plenty of reason to say that Cobb deserves being memorialized with the facts.

    I was involved recently with the naming of the Augusta Stadium and the race issue was brought forward. "But I can’t sit and allow people to say such negative remarks such as 'Cobb was a racist' without at least trying to educate the public on the absolute truth," I told several of the Augusta Commissioners.

    I recommended the stadium be named “COBB MEMORIAL STADIUM,” or something that would commemorate the great Georgia athlete. “GEORGIA PEACH STADIUM” may have been a happier medium that could have satisfied both sides of the debate.

    At any rate, my position is only to educate and pass on the information that is sometimes forgotten or unknown. I hope that I have provided you with enough information that it may give you a different perspective on who Ty Cobb really was.

    This is only a speck in the sand of the material that I possess on this great athlete. I would be happy to assist anyone, in any capacity, to tell the factual story about the game's most prolific hitter.

    I hope that the reader has been enlightened and receptive to this information, and I hope that it will assist them in the reconstruction of his or her opinion of Ty Cobb. I want to leave you with words straight from Ty Cobb’s own quote.

    “I like them, personally. When I was little I had a colored Mammy. I played with colored children.”
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 08-03-2008 at 12:15 AM.

  19. #445
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    By the way it looks like former poster Wesley Frick simply plagiarized Bill Burgess' work and then past it off as his own.

  20. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    By the way it looks like former poster Wesley Frick simply plagiarized Bill Burgess' work and then past it off as his own.
    The difference is that Bill acknowledges that Cobb did have overt racist views, shown by several incidents, at least as young man.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  21. #447
    See if this works:



    How can I post articles directly here instead of attaching them?
    Attached Files Attached Files

  22. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    See if this works:



    How can I post articles directly here instead of attaching them?

    Save them as a bmp or jpg then you have to load them onto another site.

    Unfortunately NYT has a copyright protection on their work so you can't copy and paste them easily. You used to be able to so perhaps if you have an older version of Adobe reader it is still possible. I believe nowadays you have to save the file to disk then copy to clipboard and then paster to a paint program. Kind of silly but that is I believe the quickest way.
    Last edited by Ubiquitous; 08-08-2008 at 09:38 PM.

  23. #449
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    Or you can add it as an attachment if you convert it.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  24. #450
    My gosh there is some great stuff on the NY Times site:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...609C946496D6CF



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