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Thread: Braves Field - Check it out!

  1. #41
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    Everyone is (or at least should be!) familiar with Babe Ruth
    getting traded to the Yankees (The Curse!) and how the
    Red Sox subsequently served as the Yanks' private preserve
    in the early 1920s. However, what is not as well known is
    that over in the NL the Giants of McGraw and Stoneham had
    the same kind thing going (though not quite as conspicuously)
    with the Braves.

    In the summer of 1922, both St. Louis teams were making
    pennant runs when both the Giants and Yanks were able
    to reach into their Boston branch offices for help. This led
    the St. Louis Chamber of Commerce to pass a resolution
    calling for an investigation into unfair practices!

    No wonder Boston hates New York!

    Brownie31

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by southendgrounds
    Interesting dilemma. One of the Boston teams HAD to relocate between 1952 and 1961 with new markets ready for franchises and Boston's inability to support two teams. The Red Sox were the dominant franchise economically in Boston for years. The only time the Braves outdrew the Sox was in the early 1930's, when the Sox stunk and Fenway was desperately in need of upgrade. When Yawkey bought the Sox, rebuilt Fenway and brought in top talent, the Sox blew past the Braves and never looked back. Query what would have happened in Yawkey had bought the Braves instead.

    However, the Braves had some great talent in the pipeline when they left Boston. Not only Spahn, Mathews and Aaron, but most of the major stars of Milwaukee were already on the team or in the system. The Sox would have been quite vulnerable if the Braves hung around as Yawkey lost interest in the Sox during the 50's. Ted Williams was the only thing keeping fans in the stands in Boston in the mid-late 50's. I could actually imagine Yawkey teaming with the Athletics or Senators to move to LA and SF before the Dodgers and Giants got the idea. Consider the "Los Angeles Red Sox".

    What happens to Fenway if the Sox move? It would probably have been torn down or sold to BU like Brave's Field was. If so, by 1970 at the latest, Boston would probably have gotten a multipurpose stadium for the Braves and Patriots that would have been replaced in the 1990's by a nice retro ballpark. It's also possible that the Braves could have moved to Fenway, but unlikely because of Fenway's size. With extra revenue, Brave's Field could have been significantly remodeled, or its site used for an entirely new stadium.

    The most intriguing thing about this alternative universe is the potential impact of Boston's baseball economics freed from Yawkey's racism and the Yankees' shadow. In the NL, Boston might have been dominant beyond what either the Sox or Braves have accomplished. Of course, you would still need good management, and there's never a guaranty of that.

    People forget but Yawkey was negotiating with San Diego during the spring and early summer of 1967. He just about had a deal when the '67 Cardiac Kids went on a 10 game winning streak to put them back in the pennant race and they started selling tickets when they got back from the strong road trip. Remeber, the Sox had been a mess for years. There were 500 people at Fenway the day Dave Morehead threw his no hitter in 1965. They were going to be the San Diego Red Sox in 1968 if not for Dick Williams and Yaz. The Red Sox have never looked back. Neither has the city. Boston was a dying city in the 50's and early 60's. Think Pittsburgh with an ocean.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie31
    Everyone is (or at least should be!) familiar with Babe Ruth
    getting traded to the Yankees (The Curse!) and how the
    Red Sox subsequently served as the Yanks' private preserve
    in the early 1920s. However, what is not as well known is
    that over in the NL the Giants of McGraw and Stoneham had
    the same kind thing going (though not quite as conspicuously)
    with the Braves.

    In the summer of 1922, both St. Louis teams were making
    pennant runs when both the Giants and Yanks were able
    to reach into their Boston branch offices for help. This led
    the St. Louis Chamber of Commerce to pass a resolution
    calling for an investigation into unfair practices!

    No wonder Boston hates New York!

    Brownie31
    There was more to the story than just trading away players in both cities.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Knockahoma
    People forget but Yawkey was negotiating with San Diego during the spring and early summer of 1967. He just about had a deal when the '67 Cardiac Kids went on a 10 game winning streak to put them back in the pennant race and they started selling tickets when they got back from the strong road trip. Remeber, the Sox had been a mess for years. There were 500 people at Fenway the day Dave Morehead threw his no hitter in 1965. They were going to be the San Diego Red Sox in 1968 if not for Dick Williams and Yaz. The Red Sox have never looked back. Neither has the city. Boston was a dying city in the 50's and early 60's. Think Pittsburgh with an ocean.
    Hard to watch a team that reguarly stinks, which is what those 60s teams did. They had a streak of nine consecutive losing seasons, culminating in the 100 loss 1965 year. Couple that with two excellant teams over on Causeway St. and you have the makings of a move.


    Frankly, the same holds true for the Braves in Milwaukee- the football team north of the city probably doomed them. It was football country, they couldn't keep up...
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by efin98
    Hard to watch a team that reguarly stinks, which is what those 60s teams did. They had a streak of nine consecutive losing seasons, culminating in the 100 loss 1965 year. Couple that with two excellant teams over on Causeway St. and you have the makings of a move.


    Frankly, the same holds true for the Braves in Milwaukee- the football team north of the city probably doomed them. It was football country, they couldn't keep up...
    If you want "regularly stinks," you really HAVE TO study the 1920-1949 Philadelphia Phillies. There were a lot of teams which stunk for a lot of years during those three decades: the Braves, White Sox, Red Sox, A's (from 1935 on, plus in the very early 20's) and the Browns (at times). But nobody stunk anything like the Phillies. They gave a rich new breadth of meaning to the word. They had come from out of nowhere in 1915 to make the Series and get their butts kicked, and they would do exactly that again in 1950, but in the meantime, they were just plain execrable and devoid of redeeming traits.

    When you consider how abominable the A's got after Mack sold Cochrane, Simmons, Grove, Bishop, Dykes and "The Beast," it's hard to believe some dyed-in-the-wool baseball fan in Phillie didn't go psycho, you know? I mean, they really took their baseball seriously, and between his early dynasty and the incredible Grove/Cochrane/et al. dynasty, it had to just kill them to have TWO teams that stunk SO bad.

    BHN

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by efin98
    There was more to the story than just trading away players in both cities.
    efin98:

    I know about Ruppert and Frazee, but what was the
    story in the NL? It seems that I read somewhere that
    a NY Tammany Hall manowned the Braves (the name
    coming from Chief Tammany's Braves).

    Thanks for your help!

    Brownie31

  7. #47
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    The former site of Braves Field is interesting in that from the highway outside you can look in and see it. Can't do that with any other former park that I know.

    Boston University has put it to good use, as it was their football stadium until they dropped the sport a few years ago.

    Every time I drive by there, I think of what MLB once was, with two teams in Boston, Philadelphia, St. Louis and Chicago, and three in NYC.

  8. #48
    I always remember Braves Field and a weekday radio broadcast I heard Red Barber do from there when the Dodgers got a final out in an inning just as a severe rain storm rendered the field unplayable.

    The game became official (I think it was eight innings) and I've heard Scully describe it as the greatest play/play performance he ever heard. Barber had been tracking the storm, as he did the game, and as it came towards the stadium and finally arrived over the left field stands, the final batter (I want to say Sam Jethroe) grounded out to end the inning.

    I remember trying to describe the game to my dad when he came home from work that night and, after about five minutes, realizing I wasn't coming any where close to the drama and suspense that Barber had achieved and I finally just said "the Dodgers won, it was an official game."

    That was probably the first time I really had appreciation for just how good an announcer Red Barber was and how easy and effortless he made a difficult job sound.
    After 1957, it seemed like we would never laugh again. Of course, we did. Its just that we were never young again.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by The Real McCoy
    I always remember Braves Field and a weekday radio broadcast I heard Red Barber do from there when the Dodgers got a final out in an inning just as a severe rain storm rendered the field unplayable.

    The game became official (I think it was eight innings) and I've heard Scully describe it as the greatest play/play performance he ever heard. Barber had been tracking the storm, as he did the game, and as it came towards the stadium and finally arrived over the left field stands, the final batter (I want to say Sam Jethroe) grounded out to end the inning.

    I remember trying to describe the game to my dad when he came home from work that night and, after about five minutes, realizing I wasn't coming any where close to the drama and suspense that Barber had achieved and I finally just said "the Dodgers won, it was an official game."

    That was probably the first time I really had appreciation for just how good an announcer Red Barber was and how easy and effortless he made a difficult job sound.
    Typical New England weather. I've been to a game where it litterly poured everytime one of the teams took the field, but between innings it would only drizzle, sometimes stop. Then It would pick up again when one of the teams took the field again. It did this for 4 innings!

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kckid2599
    Typical New England weather. I've been to a game where it litterly poured everytime one of the teams took the field, but between innings it would only drizzle, sometimes stop. Then It would pick up again when one of the teams took the field again. It did this for 4 innings!
    Mother Nature likes to show everyone who the real
    big leaguer is! Sometimes it is a game like you relate
    at other times it might Lambeau Field at 20 below
    zero!

    Brownie31

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie31
    Mother Nature likes to show everyone who the real
    big leaguer is! Sometimes it is a game like you relate
    at other times it might Lambeau Field at 20 below
    zero!

    Brownie31
    Add in summers where it could be 100+ for a week or raining cats and dogs for most of the month, years where it's 50 degrees in August or 30 degrees in April and September. It's amazing any sports are played in Boston during the summer!


    "New England: If you don't like the weather, wait a minute".
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by efin98


    "New England: If you don't like the weather, wait a minute".
    "What follows the rain in Birmingham? Monday."

    Brownie31

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie31
    "What follows the rain in Birmingham? Monday."

    Brownie31
    It's amazing that anything gets played outdoor sometimes, but the weather is part of sports since the begining of time
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by efin98
    It's amazing that anything gets played outdoor sometimes, but the weather is part of sports since the begining of time
    Nothing is out of Mother Nature's grasp!

    Brownie31

  15. #55

    Sorry ... you're incorrect

    Quote Originally Posted by efin98 View Post
    Noticed another remnant of Braves field is still seen: the footprint of the stadium is clearly visible from the air and in the buildings built on the old grand stand area. Plus the old support for the grand stand is visible as a wall for the near goal for the home team, covered in ivy yet still visible as some sort of former support structure above field level as seen here ...
    The wall in front of the dormitories at Nickerson Field was not a support for the home plate grandstand ... the grandstand was bulldozed in 1958 and sat as a paved over hill when the Patriots played there in 1960 ... it was completly dug out when the dorms were built ... as a matter of fact the dorms have two floors below ground level

  16. #56

    "The Boston Braves Stay In Boston ... Red Sox Leave"

    Quote Originally Posted by southendgrounds View Post
    Interesting dilemma. One of the Boston teams HAD to relocate between 1952 and 1961 with new markets ready for franchises and Boston's inability to support two teams. The Red Sox were the dominant franchise economically in Boston for years. The only time the Braves outdrew the Sox was in the early 1930's, when the Sox stunk and Fenway was desperately in need of upgrade. When Yawkey bought the Sox, rebuilt Fenway and brought in top talent, the Sox blew past the Braves and never looked back. Query what would have happened in Yawkey had bought the Braves instead.

    However, the Braves had some great talent in the pipeline when they left Boston. Not only Spahn, Mathews and Aaron, but most of the major stars of Milwaukee were already on the team or in the system. The Sox would have been quite vulnerable if the Braves hung around as Yawkey lost interest in the Sox during the 50's. Ted Williams was the only thing keeping fans in the stands in Boston in the mid-late 50's. I could actually imagine Yawkey teaming with the Athletics or Senators to move to LA and SF before the Dodgers and Giants got the idea. Consider the "Los Angeles Red Sox".

    What happens to Fenway if the Sox move? It would probably have been torn down or sold to BU like Brave's Field was. If so, by 1970 at the latest, Boston would probably have gotten a multipurpose stadium for the Braves and Patriots that would have been replaced in the 1990's by a nice retro ballpark. It's also possible that the Braves could have moved to Fenway, but unlikely because of Fenway's size. With extra revenue, Brave's Field could have been significantly remodeled, or its site used for an entirely new stadium.

    The most intriguing thing about this alternative universe is the potential impact of Boston's baseball economics freed from Yawkey's racism and the Yankees' shadow. In the NL, Boston might have been dominant beyond what either the Sox or Braves have accomplished. Of course, you would still need good management, and there's never a guaranty of that.
    It's interesting in that the Red Sox and Braves were a playoff game away of almost playing a "Subway Series" in 1948 ... in 1949 the Red Sox took the Yankees down to the last game of the season and then became a very bad baseball team with poor attendance until the 1967 "Impossible Dream" season, while the Braves became World Series Champions in 1957 and 1958 ... if the Braves had stayed a few more years, Tom Yawkey may very well had been the one to leave town, because he believed the poor attendance at Fenway Park in the 1950s was not due to his bad teams, but because of inadequate parking ... in 1958 he unveiled a plan to tear down the "Green Monster" and build a left field grandstand with parking, but couldn't get the city to pay for it, as was being done with other urban renewal projects in the city ... and being stubborn he wouldn't foot the expense himself ... his interest in the Red Sox slipped away and when Ted Williams retired in 1960, he totally lost interest in the Red Sox ... if the Braves had just hung around, who knows?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie31 View Post
    I would like to know where Braves Field & Fenway Park were in relationship to each other geographically. Were they close by each other or in completely different parts of town as with Comiskey Park & Wrigley Field in Chicago? Also were their fans' demographics different, again as with the White Sox & Cubs?
    Brownie31
    Fenway Park and Braves Field were down the street from each other ... maybe about a little over a mile or so ... Fenway is two blocks south of Kenmore Square off Brookline Ave ... Braves Field (Nickerson Field) is about 10 blocks west of Kenmore Square, off Commonwealth Ave

  18. #58

    Braves Field Stunk !!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by tonypug View Post
    Lou Perrini wanted to stay in Boston at least one more year, to see if the fans would support the team. When faced with the possibility of Bill Veeck and the Browns grabbing Milwaukee first, he had to make the move. Thats why the move was so sudden , announced just a couple of months before the start of the season.Aaron , Mathews, Spahn were all on that team. It would have been interesting to see if the fans would have come out.
    One of the major reasons, the Braves left Boston was a lack of fan support ... this lack of support was not because the Braves necessarily had a bad team, but a bad stadium ... Braves Field was a lousy place to see a game and fans hated going there ... beyond the left field (and still there today) is a major railway yard ... the wind at Braves Field was always coming in off the Charles River and blowing in from left field, which was totally open ... it was always windy and this wind brought in smoke from the locomotives constantly ... people couldn't take it and just stopped going there

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamrap View Post
    The wall in front of the dormitories at Nickerson Field was not a support for the home plate grandstand ... the grandstand was bulldozed in 1958 and sat as a paved over hill when the Patriots played there in 1960 ... it was completly dug out when the dorms were built ... as a matter of fact the dorms have two floors below ground level
    Fine, it's not support. The shape is off. Sorry for getting excited over the remove possibility of baseball history actually surviving.
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  20. #60

    Reply to Southend Grounds

    Interesting "alternative universe" scenario regarding the Braves staying in Boston and/or the Red Sox moving. can't buy the part about ANY "new" stadium being built within Boston city limits over the past 50 years however...that's where "reality intrudes".

    Fifty (50%) percent of assessable property in City of Boston is tax exempt (plethora of colleges, universities, hospitals, churches, city and state government buildings, etc.) , This has made developable acerage an absolute mirage. The Patriots were "rescued" by a last minute hastily assembled package in Foxboro (30 miles away) after the "last ditch" stadium proposal in Boston was voted down in 1970. Otherwise, Nashville, Birmingham, Memphis, et al were ready and willing to offer the Pats a home.

    The recent "new" Fenway park proposal was laughable....build a replica of Fenway two blocks away...with a gargantuan right field bleachers (field glasses a necessity to see the bullpen from the top row of the bleachers). No room for parking, infrastructure, etc. Thankfully, the Henry group saw fit to "retrofit" the existing park into a very fan-friendly venue!

    Braves Field was a deplorable dump for decades. In the 30's, Braves owners tried to get dog racing approved for dates when the Braves were out of town.
    The Patriots actually spent $500,000 (quite a sum for that time) in 1960 to "renovate" Braves Field for use as their first AFL field. That was the largest capital investment in Braves Field since 1948 (when lights were installed...many of which lasted until the mid '90's, when BU dumped football). It's inconceivable that, even had the Braves stayed and flourished in Boston during the 50's, that Braves Field would have remined their home.

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