View Poll Results: Joey

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  • Yep

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Thread: Albert Belle

  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar
    He's off the BBWAA ballot, so we can table this conversation for 15 years or so. Que sera sera.
    Belle will have enough time to make lobby!
    I think Belle´s carrer was great but too short. And why he is free of the roids scandal when part of his carrer was just parallel to McGwire, gonzalez or Sosa.
    And I don´st see justice giving Belle the HOF by only ten seasons as full time player becasue then we can start to cut Dale Murphy, Dave Parker or Dave Concepcion´s carrers in the same way to their first ten years as full time players too, which were their prime seasons.
    Last edited by mtortolero; 01-09-2007 at 08:52 PM.
    You have to suffer a revolution to know what are you talking about.

  2. #222
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    I can see Belle being a fixture in the "best player not in the hall" convos had by those of future generations who never got to see him play or witness the kind of person he was.

    I'm borderline on Belle; he certainly was dominant. And personality hardly matters much to me in terms of HOF credentials. I kind of want to support him, but when it comes time to vote for in a poll, I usually don't pull the trigger.

    One and done is a rough fate though, he certainly merits debate.
    THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

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  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Jermz
    Belle is insane. I would only vote for him if it were down to 2 players on the ballot...Belle & McGwire. I might even vote for Roberto Alomar over those two, but I am not sure yet.

    He could go into the Wifebeating Hall of Fame maybe. Or the "Got Lazy When He Came To The O's" Hall of Fame
    Was he that bad for 32 and 33 years old? Then (or earlier) with degenerative osteoarthritis in his hip, that's all she wrote but normal for that.
    (fantasy football)
    JM: Only did that for a couple of years and then we had a conspiracy so it kind of turned me sour. Our league's commissioner, Lew Ford(notes) at the time, was doing some shady things that ... I'd rather not talk about [laughs].
    DB: Isn't he in Japan right now?
    JM: I don't know where Lou is right now. He's probably fleeing the authorities [laughs].

  4. #224
    Albert Belle's numbers certainly make him hall-worthy.

    Offensively, his career mirrors Jim Rice's pretty well. If we think Jim should be in, then Albert should be in. He was also a much better defensive player than Rice, and pretty fast for a power guy.

    Belle was in the 90's probably the game's most feared hitter.

    Injuries shortened his career, and although he'll probably not win any congeniality awards with the fans, many of his teammates thought highly of him.

    He was a hard worker at his game, and was one of those super-competitive guys.

    He didn't get in conventionally because many HOF voters seem to think that how nice a guy is should play as big a role as how good a player he was, but in 15 years or so when the veteran's committee looks at him, hopefully the image of him as a ballplayer will replace his image as a sour, ornery wife-beater.

    (BTW, has anyone met his wife?)

  5. #225
    Belle certainly should make the hall, his personality has nothing to do with his baseball skills. Look at some of the "personalities" already in the hall.

  6. #226
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    Albert Belle

    The best candidate for election is not even on the ballot .. Albert Belle .. I hated the guy, too, but this snub is absurd and speaks volumes about the election process .. the media holds grudges and voters way overvalue longevity and are addicted to meaningless milestones that can be reached during mediocre seasons

    the graph below compares averages for Total Bases, Home Runs, RBI and Runs .. for Belle it is 10 straight years from 1991-2000 .. for everybody else it is the average of their 10 best totals in each category over their entire career .. at the bottom, I've included some historical players who compare with Belle .. again, I hand picked the 10 best totals in each category for all but Belle

    TB HR RBI Runs
    Belle 321 37 120 95
    Rice 322 31 113 97
    Parker 300 25 102 87
    McGwire 299 48 113 95
    Dawson 295 28 98 87
    Murphy 291 32 97 97
    Mattingly 290 21 98 87
    Raines 246 12 61 102
    Trammell 241 15 71 85
    Baines 262 23 96 75
    Justice 240 27 89 79

    Musial 356 31 113 120
    Aaron 354 42 123 115
    Mays 358 43 114 121

    Ruth 390 50 150 151

  7. #227
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    Dunno, man. I wouldn't vote for the guy. Nothing about his career really stood out, for me. It sounds crazy, but we're talking about a guy that, if he was still playing, would probably take some of the heat off of Barry Bonds. That's how despised he was. He had some great numbers, and if he had done it for 2-3 more years, he would be closer to it. He did a LOT of very dumb things in his career, though. It's not like it was a random case here and there. I mean, hauling off and throwing a baseball at a fan full speed and hitting said fan in the chest is just really screwed up.

    Also, the guy didn't even get to 2000 hits. He would've needed a couple more seasons. He was a mystery as a fielder, too. Mixed in some great assists with some mind-boggling errors.

    Also, I mentioned this elsewhere, but the Hall has the right to snub him. On the ballot, it says to consider the character of the person in consideration. Is it right? Maybe not, but I am not losing sleep over him not getting in. If I had a ballot, I would most likely skip over his name, TBH.

  8. #228
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    I don't buy the 2-3 more years argument .. 10 years is enough and his 10 years measure with the all-time greats

    as far as having less than 2,000 hits, I don't do milestones .. career totals mean little to me .. most Hall of Famers had 10 or less truly elite years (the few who had more are no-brainers anyway) .. it only matters to me how good they were in those years

    he was and still is a world-class jerk, but he threw the ball at the fan at a very young age (and the fan was also a jerk)

  9. #229
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    my favorite stat i discovered from putting these numbers together

    Harold Baines' career highs in each category are lower than Belle's 10-year average

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuffymcinnis View Post
    my favorite stat i discovered from putting these numbers together

    Harold Baines' career highs in each category are lower than Belle's 10-year average
    That doesnt mean much, though. Baines isn't exactly thought of as a prime baseball player, although he did last a long time thanks to the DH.

  11. #231
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    i agree, baines was a solid professional hitter and should be nowhere near the HoF discussion .. but he's on the ballot and Belle isn't, that's very revealing

  12. #232
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    There have been lots of discussions on Belle before - paging Dr. Albright you are needed in, umm... mergury.

    Belle is among the best not it, that's true. If you're a peak guy, he's a no-brainer. If you're a career guy he still merits consideration, and is still good enough to be gray area.

    I'd vote for him. He's a jerk, but numbers wise, his career is rather similar to Kiner's - or maybe Vald's if he retired tomorrow.

    I have to issues with Kiner, I'd vote for Vlad today, and I guess I'd vote for Belle. The HOF is rife with less than stellar human beings, and Belle stands out in that regard, even relative to group that has plenty of jerks. He was incredibly productive on the diamond though.

    He's still not the best candidate not in, at the very minimum Dick Allen, Santo, and Blyleven are bigger snubs.
    THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

    In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

  13. #233
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    merging threads again.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  14. #234
    Did you know... in the 1995 World Series (Braves won in 6 games), Albert Belle was in the on deck circle when the final out was made in 3 games - all 1 run losses. How would his legacy (or HOF chances) be changed if he had the opportunity to bat in any of those games?

    Belle is borderline HOF, but deserves serious consideration. Look at some comparisons:

    Code:
    Name         Pos YRs  ABs  OPS+  AVG   OBP    SLG  RC
    ALBERT BELLE OF  12  5853  143  .295  .369  .564  1206
    HACK WILSON  OF  12  4760  144  .307  .395  .545  1030
    TODD HELTON  1B  11  5663  143  .332  .430  .583  1459

  15. #235
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    That virtually the same group of voters elected Kirby Puckett and shunned Albert Belle is extremely inconsistent and further proof that the more subjective elements of the voting guidelines are receiving far too much weight by the electorate.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  16. #236
    didnt belle cork his bat?

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by fenrir View Post
    didnt belle cork his bat?
    He was caught with a corked bat. He denied it was his own bat but it was someone else's, if I remember.

    I don't think cork could help that much . . .
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  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
    He was caught with a corked bat. He denied it was his own bat but it was someone else's, if I remember.

    I don't think cork could help that much . . .
    i agree that cork doesnt help much but if he corked hes still a cheater.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by fenrir View Post
    i agree that cork doesnt help much but if he corked hes still a cheater.
    There's more to accessing a candidacy than a unexplained two-syllable label. Evidence and discussion before judgement.
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    Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
    There's more to accessing a candidacy than a unexplained two-syllable label. Evidence and discussion before judgement.
    i looked it up and found out that jason grimsley switched the corkedbat for him. belle was suspended. besides that belle was arrested for stalking before. he also threw a baseball at a fan and chased down some trick or treaters. the guy had some major character issues.

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