*Babe Ruth Thread*

[Nimrod]

I did touch on Babe and some shifts put on him in the other thread "Dead Pull Hitters", that died quickly. Unlike todays sluggers, he would just go the other way and even lay down some bunts down third base.

Excluding the 1923 season,Ruth had 43 bunt singles.That one clipping above is a bunt single from 1923-that brings his total to 44.For some reason Ruth`s bunt totals were not kept for the 1923 season.The only way to find that total would be going through press clippings like the one you posted from 1923.Box scores wouldn`t help because a bunt is just another single.It is like the situation of tallying the number of times Cobb stole home.A stolen base is a stolen base.Researchers have to go through the press clippings to find references to Cobb stealing home.It was 35 at one time,now it is 54 I believe.Ruth batted .393 in 1923 and played like a man possessed(he even racked up 378 putouts in the outfield),wouldn`t be surprising if he got maybe 7 bunt singles for 1923,which would give him 50 for his career.

[SultanOfWhat]

Caption says 1915:

[SHOELESSJOE3]

On Babe and the bunts, I do have a number of news game recaps that point out his bunts, with dates.
Here he is practiing his bunting, an article that shows him bunting early in NY 1921 season and some articles from 1924, the year he led the laegue in batting .378.

[GiambiJuice]

If your speaking of IBB's, I don't think they recorded those until around 1955.

The writer does say that one walk was intentional, they did use the term back then. You will see that term used and noted in " some" game recaps in the newspaper archives.

More action in that game, police stage a raid in the right field bleachers...........during the game, 16 arrested for gambling.

No I was referring to this boxscore which you posted in post #1379, which lists OPS.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

No I was referring to this boxscore which you posted in post #1379, which lists OPS.

OK GJ, now I got ya.
If I recall and I'm almost certain, I got that box score at Baseball Reference...........not from the newspaper archives.
Looks to me like when Baseall Reference lists a box score, they calculate some stats that were not even known then and insert the stat, in this case OPS.

[pheasant]

On Babe and the bunts, I do have a number of news game recaps that point out his bunts, with dates.
Here he is practiing his bunting, an article that shows him bunting early in NY 1921 season and some articles from 1924, the year he led the laegue in batting .378.

That is an incredible picture, Shoeless. This may be my favorite picture of them all. You can see that the ball has travelled less than 4 feet after he made contact. And you can see where the ball hit the ground after the bunt. Based on the angle of his bat and the position of his body, Ruth bunted a ball that was a couple of inches below the knees and about 4-6 inches inside. It is incredibly tough to bunt balls that are thrown to this area of the plate. This was just another junk pitch that was thrown to Ruth to contain him. I think it's possible that Ruth could have walked 200+ times had he laid off more pitches. But he was paid to hit HRs, so he swung at more pitches outside the zone.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

That is an incredible picture, Shoeless. This may be my favorite picture of them all. You can see that the ball has travelled less than 4 feet after he made contact. And you can see where the ball hit the ground after the bunt. Based on the angle of his bat and the position of his body, Ruth bunted a ball that was a couple of inches below the knees and about 4-6 inches inside. It is incredibly tough to bunt balls that are thrown to this area of the plate. This was just another junk pitch that was thrown to Ruth to contain him. I think it's possible that Ruth could have walked 200+ times had he laid off more pitches. But he was paid to hit HRs, so he swung at more pitches outside the zone.

It was all fun and games for the Bam, even under pressure in the World Series 1926 "quick pitch" game and the 1932 World Series, Cubs/Yanks. Cardinal team and Babe sparring with words before he homered in the 1926 WS and the battle of the insults, Cub bench and Babe before he homered in 1932. On the biggest stage, he's just having fun, 1926 and 1932 two strikes down and he's still shooting off his mouth at the opposing team.

On the bunts, some where I have an article, with the shift on he bunts down third base and the ball rolls into the outfield, a double. Standing on second he flashes that big grin at the shortstop and third basemen who were playing him on the right side of the infield, then points to the vacated left side of the infield where he bunted.
It's only a game, lets have fun. I doubt he knew the meaning of the word pressure.

[Nimrod]

I remember reading the Babe`s statement that "I could hit .600 if I wanted to hit those crummy singles all day"!One source has the Babe making the comment loud enough for Cobb to hear as Ty was taking batting practice.Cobb would generally drop a couple of bunts and then bang out 6 liners as his batting practice(unless he was in the middle of a rare slump)and then call it quits,in order to avoid any temptation to try an start swinging for the fences.In Cobb`s book,Ty names Ruth on his all-time team.The caption that Cobb gives a picture of Ruth was something like "The Babe hitting a single..something he did quite well".From Cobb`s perspective he was paying Ruth a great compliment.After all,Ruth hit over 1,000 singles and did hit .342 lifetime.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I guess Harry changed his mind. Then tried to cover his rear end with Bosox fans claiming that the poor showing by the Bosox in 1919 was the fault of the Babe, who in 1919 led both leagues in so many offensive stats, also 9-5 pitching. Claiming it was because Babe was a bad boy, which he was at times and also because the Boston Red Sox were now a one man team, Babe Ruth's team. And the team would be better off without having just one super player, dump him and replace him with a few other good players. As we know he didn't follow up on that, after sending Babe packing he followed with sending some other very good ball players to the Yanks.

In another attempt to further calm down some angry Bosox fans he made the statement that in future years Babe could become a cripple as the result of a serious knee injury suffered while with the Bosox, even before the sale. Makes no sense to me, like trying to sell a car but putting out the word............this car may have a bad transmission, wanna but it.

I should add, all of the above appeared in the newspapers at that time, not hand me down stories.
Every so often on this board there are attempts to justify or play down what Harry did. There is none, it was the bone head move of all time in the game. The cream of the American League was now headed downhill, the Yanks on the way up, for decades to come. It wasn't just Ruth, Harry made more foolish moves after that one.

[Dude Paskert]

I guess Harry changed his mind. Then tried to cover his rear end with Bosox fans claiming that the poor showing by the Bosox in 1919 was the fault of the Babe, who in 1919 led both leagues in so many offensive stats, also 9-5 pitching. Claiming it was because Babe was a bad boy, which he was at times and also because the Boston Red Sox were now a one man team, Babe Ruth's team. And the team would be better off without having just one super player, dump him and replace him with a few other good players. As we know he didn't follow up on that, after sending Babe packing he followed with sending some other very good ball players to the Yanks.

In another attempt to further calm down some angry Bosox fans he made the statement that in future years Babe could become a cripple as the result of a serious knee injury suffered while with the Bosox, even before the sale. Makes no sense to me, like trying to sell a car but putting out the word............this car may have a bad transmission, wanna but it.

I should add, all of the above appeared in the newspapers at that time, not hand me down stories.
Every so often on this board there are attempts to justify or play down what Harry did. There is none, it was the bone head move of all time in the game. The cream of the American League was now headed downhill, the Yanks on the way up, for decades to come. It wasn't just Ruth, Harry made more foolish moves after that one.

I guess the big loan from Ruppert in addition to the $100k was what changed Harry's mind.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I guess the big loan from Ruppert in addition to the $100k was what changed Harry's mind.

Probably, just think Harry put up Fenway Park as collateral on that loan.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

This must be another Babe Ruth. Since many believe he was just a big guy that ate lots of hot dogs, hit lots of home runs but was not much in the outfield.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Maybe he could do more than hit................and pitch.

[csh19792001]

Wouldn`t be surprising if he got maybe 7 bunt singles for 1923,which would give him 50 for his career.

That's something, considering Bonds had 8 bunt hits and 4 sacrifice hits in 3000 career games. Babe had 113 sacrifice hits in 400 fewer career games..

Man, how times have changed....

[SHOELESSJOE3]

This was the 1932 World Series. Well, lemons not as bad as the Card fans in the 1926 World Series, throwing bottles at Babe in left field.
Certainly no reflection on Card fans overall. A Yankee fan here but consider Card fans some of the best in the game.

[Nimrod]

That's something, considering Bonds had 8 bunt hits and 4 sacrifice hits in 3000 career games. Babe had 113 sacrifice hits in 400 fewer career games..

Man, how times have changed....

The biggest gap you can imagine in regards to sacrifice hits would be between two American League HOF.Eddie Collins has the all time record of 512-Harmon Killebrew has the lowest of any position player at 0!I stumbled upon what might be the most per season when I was looking at Ray Chapman`s stats.Chapman,as you know,had his career and life ended with a pitch from Carl Mays,but he had 334 SH in only 1,051 games!Whole different ballgame-literally.

[pheasant]

The biggest gap you can imagine in regards to sacrifice hits would be between two American League HOF.Eddie Collins has the all time record of 512-Harmon Killebrew has the lowest of any position player at 0!I stumbled upon what might be the most per season when I was looking at Ray Chapman`s stats.Chapman,as you know,had his career and life ended with a pitch from Carl Mays,but he had 334 SH in only 1,051 games!Whole different ballgame-literally.

Eddie Collins handled a bat with similar precision that a Minnesota Fats player handled a pool cue. So that one doesn't surprise me. And I believe that Killebrew, a great HR hitter and person(I'm slightly biased, being a lifetime Twins' fan) holds the Guiness Book of World Records for being the slowest man ever.

[csh19792001]

Eddie Collins handled a bat with similar precision that a Minnesota Fats player handled a pool cue. So that one doesn't surprise me. And I believe that Killebrew, a great HR hitter and person(I'm slightly biased, being a lifetime Twins' fan) holds the Guiness Book of World Records for being the slowest man ever.

"Lou Boudreau is easily the slowest ballplayer since Ernie Lombardi was thrown out at first base trying to stretch a double into a single." -Stanley Frank (1908-1979)

(Lombardi grounded into a double play less than 1/20 of his AB's, which has to be far and away the worst rate of anyone with a long career in MLB history.)

David Ortiz is probably the slowest baserunner I've ever seen. And I mainly watched him when he was young! Before he was 35, at that...at very least 10 games/year on TV and many times in person between visits to Fenway, YS, and Camden.

[pheasant]

"Lou Boudreau is easily the slowest ballplayer since Ernie Lombardi was thrown out at first base trying to stretch a double into a single." -Stanley Frank (1908-1979)

(Lombardi grounded into a double play less than 1/20 of his AB's, which has to be far and away the worst rate of anyone with a long career in MLB history.)

David Ortiz is probably the slowest baserunner I've ever seen. And I mainly watched him when he was young! Before he was 35, at that...at very least 10 games/year on TV and many times in person between visits to Fenway, YS, and Camden.

That first quote is hilarious. Ok, he wins! Anybody that gets thrown out like that is slower than Killebrew

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I have noticed, looking over some of Ty's letters, a fair number written in green.
For those who are not aware, Christy Walsh was Babe's agent in Babe's playing days.

Error in my text.............left out words "he could."

[Dude Paskert]

Eddie Collins handled a bat with similar precision that a Minnesota Fats player handled a pool cue. So that one doesn't surprise me. And I believe that Killebrew, a great HR hitter and person(I'm slightly biased, being a lifetime Twins' fan) holds the Guiness Book of World Records for being the slowest man ever.

The slowest baserunner I've ever seen was Calvin Pickering, who had to be well over three bills. I am ashamed to say that I laughed when this man tried to slide into 2nd at Fenway, came up a few feet short, and had to be taken off the field with an injury that effectively ended his career. I'm sure Killer could have run rings around Calvin.

[Nimrod]

[QUOTE=SHOELESSJOE3;1998069]I have noticed, looking over some of Ty's letters, a fair number written in green.

Yes,the use of green ink was virtually a trademark of Cobb`s.Recently,Antiques Roadshow featured a collection of letters that Cobb had sent to the owner of said letters father,and they were all written in green ink.When Al Stump created his infamous Cobb forgeries he knew to use green ink as part of the scam.Both Cobb and Ruth had good penmanship,especially Cobb.I have never had trouble making out even one single written word of his.The above mentioned Harmon Killebrew had a reputation of having exceptional handwriting.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

[QUOTE=Nimrod;1998378]

I have noticed, looking over some of Ty's letters, a fair number written in green.

Yes,the use of green ink was virtually a trademark of Cobb`s.Recently,Antiques Roadshow featured a collection of letters that Cobb had sent to the owner of said letters father,and they were all written in green ink.When Al Stump created his infamous Cobb forgeries he knew to use green ink as part of the scam.Both Cobb and Ruth had good penmanship,especially Cobb.I have never had trouble making out even one single written word of his.The above mentioned Harmon Killebrew had a reputation of having exceptional handwriting.

I have noticed that, I've gone over dozens or letters written by ballplayers, some not bad, some could not really make out, Cobb never a problem.

[Dude Paskert]

[QUOTE=Nimrod;1998378]

I have noticed, looking over some of Ty's letters, a fair number written in green.

Yes,the use of green ink was virtually a trademark of Cobb`s.Recently,Antiques Roadshow featured a collection of letters that Cobb had sent to the owner of said letters father,and they were all written in green ink.When Al Stump created his infamous Cobb forgeries he knew to use green ink as part of the scam.Both Cobb and Ruth had good penmanship,especially Cobb.I have never had trouble making out even one single written word of his.The above mentioned Harmon Killebrew had a reputation of having exceptional handwriting.

Well, Killer did once say that one of his hobbies was washing dishes, so I'll bet practicing his penmanship was right up there, too...
;^)
(ps - I love Killer, but I'm not making up the dishes thing)

[Nimrod]

[QUOTE=Dude Paskert;1998422]

Well, Killer did once say that one of his hobbies was washing dishes, so I'll bet practicing his penmanship was right up there, too...
;^)
(ps - I love Killer, but I'm not making up the dishes thing)

Ha,Ha.I remember reading that he would never state that he did NOT smoke or drink in an interview for fear that he would hurt the feelings of his friends who did smoke or drink!As to Killer`s foot speed(or lack thereof)I saw him in an exhibition game smack a 410 foot drive off the center field wall and he just made it to first for a SINGLE....Tony Oliva laced a 375 foot line drive to right for a HOMER.In all fairness,I seem to remember that Harmon was nursing a pulled hamstring.