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Thread: *Babe Ruth Thread*

  1. #1081
    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    PITCHING LEADERS: 1915-1919

    ERA ERA
    1 Grover C Alexander 1.57
    2 Walter Johnson 1.69
    3 Fred Toney 2.10
    4 Eddie Cicotte 2.11
    5 Hippo Vaughn 2.11
    6 Carl Mays 2.15
    7 Babe Ruth 2.16
    8 Jeff Pfeffer 2.19
    9 Stan Coveleski 2.33
    10 Slim Sallee 2.34

    INNINGS PITCHED IP
    1 Walter Johnson 1648.2
    2 Hippo Vaughn 1457
    3 Grover C Alexander 1414
    4 Eddie Cicotte 1329.1
    5 Hooks Dauss 1324.1
    6 Dick Rudolph 1324
    7 Wilbur Cooper 1290
    8 Dave Davenport 1267.1
    9 Fred Toney 1266
    10 Carl Mays 1223.2
    12 Babe Ruth 1161.1

    SHUTOUTS SHO
    1 Grover C Alexander 45
    2 Walter Johnson 33
    3 Hippo Vaughn 25
    4 Fred Toney 22
    T5 Pol Perritt 20
    T5 Jeff Pfeffer 20
    T7 Joe Bush 19
    T7 Lefty Tyler 19
    T7 Dutch Leonard 19
    10 Dick Rudolph 18
    T11 Babe Ruth 17

    WINNING PERCENTAGE PCT
    1 Grover C Alexander .704
    2 Babe Ruth .659
    3 Eddie Cicotte .630
    4 Hippo Vaughn .617
    5 Walter Johnson .608
    6 Slim Sallee .607
    7 Stan Coveleski .606
    8 Carl Mays .600
    9 Hooks Dauss .592
    10 Bernie Boland .588

    WINS W
    1 Walter Johnson 118
    2 Grover C Alexander 112
    3 Hippo Vaughn 103
    4 Eddie Cicotte 97
    5 Hooks Dauss 93
    6 Babe Ruth 87
    7 Carl Mays 81
    8 Stan Coveleski 80
    9 Fred Toney 78
    10 Dick Rudolph 76

    Even as a kid (compared to the veterans on these lists) look at what this guy was able to do....just incredible.

    There will never be another remotely like him ever again.
    Also to be considered in 1918 and 1919 he was not always sitting the bench resting between starts in 1918 and 1919.
    Beside the pitching 1918, 13 games first base and 59 games in the outfield.
    1919, 4 games first base and 111 games in the outfield. Over those two seasons he was 22-12.

    When he complained, that he was getting tired, no longer wanted to pitch, he was told , "have you tried getting more sleep." Probably some truth in that, he was a bit wild when first coming to the Bosox.
    But, obviously, just a matter of time before there would be no more pitching, even if he stayed with the Bosox.

  2. #1082
    Quote Originally Posted by pheasant View Post
    I also believe that Ted Williams would have suffered in the Dead Ball era quite a bit. He didn't have the power of a Ruth or Mantle. But he may have been like a Joe Jackson, which isn't so bad.
    Williams just didn't have the speed to have been the best hitter in the game in the dead ball era. Even though he was probably better at hitting a baseball than anyone who ever lived, I agree with you that in an earlier time, his effectiveness would have been decimated.

    Who had more foot speed and ran the bases better in their primes- Babe or Williams? I would strongly suspect Ruth.

    As far as Joe Jackson, I think he may have had more power than basically everyone during his time, even Cobb. "Isolated Power" is a better indicator of pure slugging than slugging percentage itself....

    AMERICAN LEAGUE LEADERS
    1911-1920


    ISOLATED POWER

    1 Joe Jackson .162
    2 Ty Cobb .150
    3 Sam Crawford .148
    4 Tris Speaker .146
    5 George Sisler .137
    6 Home Run Baker .136
    7 Wally Pipp .135
    8 Happy Felsch .134
    9 Braggo Roth .133
    10 Bobby Veach .127

    AVERAGE
    1 Ty Cobb .383
    2 Joe Jackson .357
    3 Tris Speaker .349
    4 George Sisler .347
    5 Eddie Collins .332
    6 Sam Crawford .318
    7 Home Run Baker .313
    8 Stuffy McInnis .308
    9 Bobby Veach .304
    10 Clyde Milan .298

    EXTRA BASE HITS
    1 Tris Speaker 566
    2 Joe Jackson 521
    3 Ty Cobb 503
    4 Bobby Veach 394
    5 Del Pratt 387
    6 Harry Hooper 378
    7 Home Run Baker 370
    8 Duffy Lewis 346
    9 Eddie Collins 345
    10 Larry Gardner 338

    TRIPLES
    1 Joe Jackson 163

    2 Ty Cobb 156
    3 Tris Speaker 130
    T4 Sam Crawford 116
    T4 Harry Hooper 116
    6 Eddie Collins 112
    7 Bobby Veach 107
    8 Larry Gardner 99
    9 Shano Collins 96
    10 Del Pratt 94

    SLG
    1 Ty Cobb .532
    2 Joe Jackson .519
    3 Tris Speaker .495
    4 George Sisler .484
    5 Sam Crawford .465
    6 Home Run Baker .449
    7 Bobby Veach .431
    8 Eddie Collins .428
    9 Happy Felsch .427
    10 Braggo Roth .417

  3. #1083
    CAREER
    1876-1992


    ISOLATED POWER ISO
    1 Babe Ruth .348

    2 Lou Gehrig .292
    3 Hank Greenberg .292
    4 Ted Williams .289
    5 Jimmie Foxx .284
    6 Ralph Kiner .269
    7 Mike Schmidt .260
    8 Mickey Mantle .259
    9 Willie Mays .256
    10 Joe DiMaggio .254

    SECONDARY AVERAGE SEC
    1 Babe Ruth .594

    2 Ted Williams .553
    3 Mickey Mantle .487
    4 Lou Gehrig .481
    5 Bill Joyce .471
    6 Ralph Kiner .467
    7 Jimmie Foxx .464
    8 Hank Greenberg .462
    9 Rickey Henderson .454
    10 Mike Schmidt .450


    Ruth is so far ahead in sheer power it's ridiculous. That includes Teddy Ballgame.

    *Note: I left out steroid era guys.

  4. #1084
    Quote Originally Posted by pheasant View Post
    I.e, Ruth smashed 3 doubles in one game in the Dead Ball era against a pitcher that threw in the high 90s with pinpoint control? And he did this with a 42 ounce bat? Wow! Granted, Walter only threw one pitch. But it was arguably the best pitch ever. That's pretty impressive. I've read that Ruth hit some severely scuffed up balls that broke two feet on the way to the plate for some long doubles to right center as well. I want to call him stupid for not using a 32 inch whip bat. He could have generated so much more speed with a bat like that. But maybe he needed that heavier bat to put one out of parks back then with 450-487 ft centerfields. He still did ok, so maybe I'll bite my tongue.
    Bat speed is not simply a matter of "whip." It is also a matter of MASS. Ruth used a 42 oz. bat and a 47 oz. bat and didn't use a bat under 40 oz. until his last two seasons. His own torque + thrust + bat mass added up to the forward force of the bat [bat speed]. Furthermore, if the MOI of the bat [balance point] is nearer the handle, the bat is "lighter" for the hitter in executing his swing.

    Ruth was big and strong and knew something about bats and power generation.

  5. #1085
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    Quote Originally Posted by leewileyfan View Post
    Bat speed is not simply a matter of "whip." It is also a matter of MASS. Ruth used a 42 oz. bat and a 47 oz. bat and didn't use a bat under 40 oz. until his last two seasons. His own torque + thrust + bat mass added up to the forward force of the bat [bat speed]. Furthermore, if the MOI of the bat [balance point] is nearer the handle, the bat is "lighter" for the hitter in executing his swing.

    Ruth was big and strong and knew something about bats and power generation.
    I agree. He probably would have only hit the ball 430 feet regularly with a 32-34 ounce bat. But he would have made much more contact and hit for higher averages. And those huge centerfields might have cost him a bunch homeruns with a lighter bat. But today, the lighter bat would have helped out much more with the smaller parks today. Like I said, he still did ok, even with that monstrous bat.

  6. #1086
    Happy Birthday Bam.

    A day late on this one, another great ballplayer, Happy Birthday Hank aaron.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-06-2012 at 11:34 AM.

  7. #1087
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    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    Williams just didn't have the speed to have been the best hitter in the game in the dead ball era. Even though he was probably better at hitting a baseball than anyone who ever lived, I agree with you that in an earlier time, his effectiveness would have been decimated.

    Who had more foot speed and ran the bases better in their primes- Babe or Williams? I would strongly suspect Ruth.

    As far as Joe Jackson, I think he may have had more power than basically everyone during his time, even Cobb. "Isolated Power" is a better indicator of pure slugging than slugging percentage itself....

    AMERICAN LEAGUE LEADERS
    1911-1920


    ISOLATED POWER

    1 Joe Jackson .162
    2 Ty Cobb .150
    3 Sam Crawford .148
    4 Tris Speaker .146
    5 George Sisler .137
    6 Home Run Baker .136
    7 Wally Pipp .135
    8 Happy Felsch .134
    9 Braggo Roth .133
    10 Bobby Veach .127

    AVERAGE
    1 Ty Cobb .383
    2 Joe Jackson .357
    3 Tris Speaker .349
    4 George Sisler .347
    5 Eddie Collins .332
    6 Sam Crawford .318
    7 Home Run Baker .313
    8 Stuffy McInnis .308
    9 Bobby Veach .304
    10 Clyde Milan .298

    EXTRA BASE HITS
    1 Tris Speaker 566
    2 Joe Jackson 521
    3 Ty Cobb 503
    4 Bobby Veach 394
    5 Del Pratt 387
    6 Harry Hooper 378
    7 Home Run Baker 370
    8 Duffy Lewis 346
    9 Eddie Collins 345
    10 Larry Gardner 338

    TRIPLES
    1 Joe Jackson 163

    2 Ty Cobb 156
    3 Tris Speaker 130
    T4 Sam Crawford 116
    T4 Harry Hooper 116
    6 Eddie Collins 112
    7 Bobby Veach 107
    8 Larry Gardner 99
    9 Shano Collins 96
    10 Del Pratt 94

    SLG
    1 Ty Cobb .532
    2 Joe Jackson .519
    3 Tris Speaker .495
    4 George Sisler .484
    5 Sam Crawford .465
    6 Home Run Baker .449
    7 Bobby Veach .431
    8 Eddie Collins .428
    9 Happy Felsch .427
    10 Braggo Roth .417
    Shoeless had more triples than Cobb? There's no way he was nearly as fast as Cobb. The boy carried some serious lumber. I would have guessed that Cobb was #1 in triples by quite a margin. I knew that Speaker was the doubles king(792 for a career).

  8. #1088
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    Quote Originally Posted by pheasant View Post
    I.e, Ruth smashed 3 doubles in one game in the Dead Ball era against a pitcher that threw in the high 90s with pinpoint control? And he did this with a 42 ounce bat? Wow! Granted, Walter only threw one pitch. But it was arguably the best pitch ever. That's pretty impressive. I've read that Ruth hit some severely scuffed up balls that broke two feet on the way to the plate for some long doubles to right center as well. I want to call him stupid for not using a 32 inch whip bat. He could have generated so much more speed with a bat like that. But maybe he needed that heavier bat to put one out of parks back then with 450-487 ft centerfields. He still did ok, so maybe I'll bite my tongue.
    On May 25,1921 at St Louis,Ruth used teammate Aaron Ward`s 32 oz.bat for the whole game.According to author Bill Jenkinson he smacked a double to right center,hit a 400 foot plus fly-out to center,and then smacked a 535 foot homer to center.The Babe`s reaction was to laughingly refer to Ward`s bat as a "toothpick"and to exclaim how much further he would have hit the ball if he had used one of his own war clubs!Even after Ruth retired he still recommended that a hitter should use the heaviest bat that he could handle.There was just no changing the Babe`s mindset in regards to using heavy bats.
    Last edited by Nimrod; 02-06-2012 at 01:50 PM.

  9. #1089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
    On May 25,1921 at St Louis,Ruth used teammate Aaron Ward`s 32 oz.bat for the whole game.According to author Bill Jenkinson he smacked a double to right center,hit a 400 foot plus fly-out to center,and then smacked a 535 foot homer to center.The Babe`s reaction was to laughingly refer to Ward`s bat as a "toothpick"and to exclaim how much further he would have hit the ball if he had used one of his own war clubs!Even after Ruth retired he still recommended that a hitter should use the heaviest bat that he could handle.There was just no changing the Babe`s mindset in regards to using heavy bats.
    535 feet with a 32 ounce bat? Perhaps he should have stucked with a smaller bat then.

  10. #1090
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
    On May 25,1921 at St Louis,Ruth used teammate Aaron Ward`s 32 oz.bat for the whole game.According to author Bill Jenkinson he smacked a double to right center,hit a 400 foot plus fly-out to center,and then smacked a 535 foot homer to center.The Babe`s reaction was to laughingly refer to Ward`s bat as a "toothpick"and to exclaim how much further he would have hit the ball if he had used one of his own war clubs!Even after Ruth retired he still recommended that a hitter should use the heaviest bat that he could handle.There was just no changing the Babe`s mindset in regards to using heavy bats.
    Ted Williams told a story about borrowing a teammate's bat for a game because he was intrigued by how light it was and how soft it seemed to be, as it was covered with ball indents (I think Ted called it "Cuban Wood"). Splinter popped a HR to CF on a tough pitch with it and was intrigued by how he felt like he could wait longer on the ball and still whip it out of the park. Of course, Ted became a proponent of using relatively light (ash) bats and focusing on bat speed, although I must say that his roughly 35" ~33.5oz bats would be pretty big by modern standards.
    BBF user BMH from LS reported that Adam Dunn used a beech bat to hit possibly his longest career HR, but then dropped that wood type because he didn't like the feel. Maybe he should have gone back to beech for last season, couldn't have made him hit any worse...
    "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

  11. #1091
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellborn View Post
    Ted Williams told a story about borrowing a teammate's bat for a game because he was intrigued by how light it was and how soft it seemed to be, as it was covered with ball indents (I think Ted called it "Cuban Wood"). Splinter popped a HR to CF on a tough pitch with it and was intrigued by how he felt like he could wait longer on the ball and still whip it out of the park. Of course, Ted became a proponent of using relatively light (ash) bats and focusing on bat speed, although I must say that his roughly 35" ~33.5oz bats would be pretty big by modern standards.
    BBF user BMH from LS reported that Adam Dunn used a beech bat to hit possibly his longest career HR, but then dropped that wood type because he didn't like the feel. Maybe he should have gone back to beech for last season, couldn't have made him hit any worse...
    Yes,he and Musial were some of the first great hitters to use light bats.I think Williams said his teammate`s bat was like "Pumpkin wood".It seems like even the little guys like Joe Sewell and Paul Waner used 40oz. plus bats in the 20`s and 30`s(and before).Speaking of bats,I just read an interesting article about one of the last bats that Gehrig used it was put up on auction for over $403,000.It was owned by actor Kurt Russell`s father.You can just google "Bing Russell Lou Gehrig"and click on the first item:1938-39 game used bat.Some good anecdotes about Gehrig,Gomez,and McCarthy.Apparently,the Yankee`s would secretly do some chowing down during games(but no boozing-maybe that was reserved for McCarthy).

  12. #1092
    Double Post, gents.
    Last edited by csh19792001; 02-06-2012 at 04:30 PM.

  13. #1093
    Quote Originally Posted by pheasant View Post
    Shoeless had more triples than Cobb? There's no way he was nearly as fast as Cobb. The boy carried some serious lumber. I would have guessed that Cobb was #1 in triples by quite a margin. I knew that Speaker was the doubles king(792 for a career).
    Joe had more triples than Ty from 1911-1920 (while they were both full time players). Jackson also had 14 inside the park homers (54 total home runs), Cobb 46 inside the park jobs out of 117, total.

    Comiskey I wasn't bigger than the other parks of the era, but it was a tomb for runs and home runs. This was mainly because it had foul territory roughly the size of Oakland's Coliseum. Hell, Cobb only hit 3 home runs there in his career...

    Code:
    Player Name               HR     G    AB    R    H  2B  3B  HR  RBI   BB IBB   SO HBP  SH  SF GDP   SB  CS   AVG   OBP   SLG
    Carlton Fisk              94   636  2205  306  568 103   7  94  348  226  38  355  36   7  27  45   26  20  .258  .333  .439
    Harold Baines             88   692  2524  338  741 145  24  88  428  230  42  361   5   6  29  75   14   9  .294  .350  .475
    Bill Melton               88   488  1737  251  460  65   3  88  285  216  16  294  13  12  17  39    9  11  .265  .347  .458
    Ron Kittle                66   333  1091  150  258  55   1  66  185  110  11  294   6   0  12  26    7   7  .236  .307  .470
    Sherm Lollar              66   716  2176  246  578  89   5  66  321  284  40  174  48  16  16  80   12   6  .266  .361  .402
    Minnie Minoso             65   716  2529  460  790 138  48  65  395  375  27  209  70  26  23  69   99  56  .312  .412  .482
    Greg Walker               56   416  1383  190  364  79  15  56  224  145  11  252   9   2   8  25    6   3  .263  .335  .463
    Dick Allen                49   185   626  122  195  38   7  49  150   91  15  135   1   1   6  19   16   3  .312  .396  .629
    Greg Luzinski             49   263   912  145  255  57   1  49  183  135  12  175  10   0  17  23    4   1  .280  .372  .505
    Zeke Bonura               48   278  1079  213  364  81   8  48  248  145   0   53   4   7   0   0    8   1  .337  .418  .561
    Carlos May                48   502  1766  252  511  72  11  48  269  230  28  226  17   1  17  42   39  24  .289  .373  .424
    Roy Sievers               46   227   756  121  204  31   3  46  167  107  10  108   9   2   4  22    4   2  .270  .365  .501
    Pete Ward                 46   436  1425  159  363  59   3  46  200  169  24  233  22   6  18  22    7   8  .255  .339  .397
    Eddie Robinson            45   282   966  132  260  32   5  45  180  120  10   74  14  11   1  15    3   2  .269  .358  .452
    Babe Ruth                 45   167   604  146  193  36   9  45  149  147   0   88   2  10   0   0    7   8  .320  .454  .632
    Al Smith                  44   396  1372  207  353  62  12  44  187  154  11  166  13   6   7  48   16   8  .257  .336  .416
    Al Simmons                41   339  1394  239  447  71  29  41  273  107   0   91   4   8   0   2    9   9  .321  .371  .501
    Chet Lemon                40   429  1476  224  411  91  18  40  194  171   8  187  34  19  17  32   25  20  .278  .363  .446
    Jorge Orta                40   531  1865  246  570  92  25  40  270  166   8  237  11   9  28  39   36  17  .306  .361  .446
    Jim Landis                39   546  1773  251  452  66  28  39  186  250  13  258  30  29  12  33   64  24  .255  .354  .390
    Jimmie Foxx               38   154   558  117  181  25  15  38  134  102   0   92   2   6   0   4    6   6  .324  .431  .627
    Lou Gehrig                37   151   594  149  226  50  11  37  154  112   0   47   2   7   0   0   10   9  .380  .480  .689
    Jim Rivera                37   517  1585  218  404  65  31  37  188  156  17  242   8  22   7  23   79  35  .255  .323  .405
    Joe Kuhel                 36   538  1966  307  521  95  24  36  240  257   0  144  11  26   0  28   49  25  .265  .353  .393
    Ted Williams              34   166   577  104  171  25   7  34  119  115  10   56   2   0   3  15    1   3  .296  .413  .541

  14. #1094
    Quote Originally Posted by pheasant View Post
    535 feet with a 32 ounce bat? Perhaps he should have stucked with a smaller bat then.
    Statements of these by Jenkinson seriously strain his credulity as a legit, honest journalist and author. To go back to what we were talking about over on the "mammoth homeruns" thread, including the postseason, there have been about 1.4-1.5 million plate appearances since April, 2005. Not a single 500 foot home run. The AVERAGE ML player is almost Babe's size now. Almost every great hitter swings for home runs, many swing as hard as they can every time. Steroids. They lift 5-6 days a week. They have their own nutritionists and personal trainers....the baseballs are probably more resilient, the bats almost definitely are.

    Babe was the greatest slugger in MLB history, but he wasn't Bill Brasky, folks. I LOVED Jenkinson's 104 Home Runs book, but I have to seriously question using second or third hand accounts.....and stipulate those perceptions as hard facts....
    Last edited by csh19792001; 02-06-2012 at 07:02 PM.

  15. #1095
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    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    The AVERAGE ML player is almost Babe's size now. Almost every great hitter swings for home runs, many swing as hard as they can every time. Steroids. They lift 5-6 days a week. They have their own nutritionists and personal trainers....
    There's much more to it than size & strength though, you're oversimplifying it. If it were simply about size & strength, you'd have to dismiss Mickey Mantle, too. And Prince Fielder, as a matter of fact...

    There's a high school player named Nick Williams who is a top prospect, he is a slender guy, but has insane bat speed because his technique is so good. I watched him rattle balls high off the Chase Field scoreboard back in Dec. 2010 (he was hurt for the latest home run derby there), and expect to see him do the same in a major league game within 3-4 years.

    Your logic, if I understand it correctly, is that "because others are as strong or stronger than Ruth, and they don't hit 500 foot homers, then he couldnt have either." Am I misunderstanding you, or is that it? If that's it, I have to disagree...
    ESPN Home Run Tracker
    Home run distances for every home run hit in MLB

    http://www.hittrackeronline.com

  16. #1096
    Speaking of bats.Goose Goslin and his striped bat used in opening day, April 12, 1932. Banned, no longer used after that day. Actually never even used in that game.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-06-2012 at 08:42 PM.

  17. #1097
    Quote Originally Posted by gator92 View Post

    Your logic, if I understand it correctly, is that "because others are as strong or stronger than Ruth, and they don't hit 500 foot homers, then he couldnt have either." Am I misunderstanding you, or is that it? If that's it, I have to disagree...
    First, I was referencing Ruth supposedly hitting a 535 foot homer with Aaron Ward's bat.

    Players are not just stronger- they're better in every aspect than they were in 1923. And the equipment is much better. There is a confluence of facts which make long blasts more likely than ever. The relative K and HR rates over the past twenty years, compared with the 20 years Ruth dominated the game, speaks volumes. Not to mention there are 30 teams, a talent pool 10 times what it was in his time.

    What I'm saying is that Jenkinson was perhaps intellectually dishonest to extrapolate/interpolate hard data based nearly on 100% conjecture and observer speculation. Kinda the exact opposite of what you do on your website.

    Is it possible that he hit over 50 homers over 500 feet, yet not a single player- this from a pool biggest, strongest, fastest, most diverse, and well conditioned and trained- has done so over the last 1.4 million plate appearances? Of course it is possible.

    Now, cognizant of all the factors in play here....how likely is this coming from an unbiased and rational perspective. You're seem like a scientist, and not a legend builder and book propagator.

    Not to mention steroids. Take Barry as an example. After age 36, the guy puts on 30-40 pounds of muscle and starts hitting tape measure shots he never approached in his natural physical prime.

    I read this in 2007:
    Late in the first half of the 2000 season, Bonds hit a HR off the Angels' Seth Etherton which was measured at 493 feet. It was not aided by wind. Prior to that date, Bonds had never hit a HR over 450 feet, except for three which were substantially aided by wind. Since that day, Bonds has hit about THREE DOZEN MORE of over 450 feet, sans wind.
    Last edited by csh19792001; 02-06-2012 at 10:13 PM.

  18. #1098

  19. #1099
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    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    There is a confluence of facts which make long blasts more likely than ever.
    I don't know that this is true, though. I've already described how wind has largely been removed from major league baseball, due to the growth of cities, and the vertical growth of newer ballparks. I think (could be wrong, though) that the baseballs are more consistent today, and thus there's less likelihood of a "cannonball" ending up in the pitcher's hand. Hitters universally use lighter bats to maximize contact, but at the expense of "speed off the bat".

    Those are some real factors that weigh against the overall increase in muscular strength that exists today. Furthermore, I'm not a kinesiologist, nor do I play one on TV, but as far as I can tell, there is not a direct, monotonic relationship between muscular strength and bat speed, i.e. being stronger does not necessarily mean you can generate higher bat speed. You've got to concede the importance of technique (confession time: although I'm bigger than Tiger Woods, he can outdrive me), and once you concede that, I don't see why you wouldn't be willing to admit the possibility that players from long ago might have had superior technique to most, if not all, modern players. Ever been to Fenway Park? Go look at the Red Seat in the right field bleachers where Ted Williams (aka the Splendid Splinter) hit one (witnessed by thousands of people and one broken straw hat); every visiting left-handed hitter tries to get one up there during BP, and no one ever comes close. That was in 1946, more than 65 years ago...
    ESPN Home Run Tracker
    Home run distances for every home run hit in MLB

    http://www.hittrackeronline.com

  20. #1100
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    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    Players are not just stronger- they're better in every aspect than they were in 1923. And the equipment is much better. There is a confluence of facts which make long blasts more likely than ever. The relative K and HR rates over the past twenty years, compared with the 20 years Ruth dominated the game, speaks volumes. Not to mention there are 30 teams, a talent pool 10 times what it was in his time.
    A lot of these things cut both ways, also. Pitchers are stronger, and throw a greater variety of breaking pitches. Bullpen usage is much greater, meaning hitters face fresh relievers more, and starters are more at liberty to throw with max effort. The greatly increased talent pool includes pitchers as well. Something you don't mention is the growth of other non-baseball athletic endeavors in the USA which draw off a lot of superior talent to other sports. The guy I mentioned earlier, Nick Williams, also plays football and runs track.

    Not to mention steroids.
    Which also are taken by pitchers, apparently.

    I'm not saying that everything ever written about Ruth was true (although let me stipulate that I do believe that Bill Jenkinson has faithfully reproduced the contemporary reports from Ruth's day - which is all he can do, not having been alive for any of it any more than you or I). However, just because some Ruth stories may be exaggerated doesn't negate the overwhelming weight of evidence in support of his dominance in terms of home run distance - when you hear about some no-name guy in New Mexico who supposedly hit a bajillion foot home run "measured" by broken branches in a tree down the street from the park, you can laugh it off, but Ruth hit gigantic homers in every park he ever played in. He hit balls out of Tiger Stadium out towards center field. Reasonable people can argue over whether a ball landed in the front or the back of the lumber yard, but there's a bedrock minimum distance when you exit the park in that direction.

    Jenkinson is not making this stuff up!
    ESPN Home Run Tracker
    Home run distances for every home run hit in MLB

    http://www.hittrackeronline.com

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