Mark McGwire....

**Good Catholic** · 10-11-2004, 10:07 AM

I'm a Cubs fan, but my favorite AL team is the A's. Nothing would PO me more then to see Big Mac wear a STL cap into the hall. He played the majority of his career with Oakland. He should have the "A's" on his cap.

**nightal** · 10-11-2004, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Good Catholic

I'm a Cubs fan, but my favorite AL team is the A's. Nothing would PO me more then to see Big Mac wear a STL cap into the hall. He played the majority of his career with Oakland. He should have the "A's" on his cap.

Cardinals of course. Nolan Ryan played the majority of his games with 3 other teams but wore a Rangers cap. Reggie Jackson played the majority of his games with the A's, but he wore a Yankees cap.
These are just 2 examples, I'm sure there are others.

**ElHalo** · 10-11-2004, 03:52 PM

It has to be the A's. There'd be absolutely no sense in putting him in a cap for a team he played two full seasons and parts of 3 others for.

**nightal** · 10-11-2004, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by ElHalo

It has to be the A's. There'd be absolutely no sense in putting him in a cap for a team he played two full seasons and parts of 3 others for.

But I'm sure YOU had no problem with Reggie donning a Yankees cap.

**DoubleX** · 10-11-2004, 04:06 PM

I agree, that based on service and number of good years, he McGwires should definitely go in as an Atheltic, but McGwire broke the record and became an American icon in a Cardinals uniform and I think the average fan remembers him as a Cardinal and not an Athletic, thus I believe he will be a Cardinal in the Hall. Two examples come to mind with this - Reggie Jackson and Gary Carter. Reggie should most definitely be an A in the hall, but he's a Yankee due to the level of his exploits during his time there and his post-retirement association with the team. While Carter wanted to be a Met, and I think due to the New York market and the great Met teams of the 80's, Carter is better remembered as a Met, but alas he's in the hall as an Expo due to years of service. Of these two examples, I believe McGwire is more like Reggie - a much larger figure than Carter who created some very memorable moments in baseball lore with a team he didn't spend much time with. So again, I believe he'll be a Cardinal and not an Athletic.

Speaking of the A's getting shafted by former players, I'm always annoyed when I think about how the A's don't properly honor their rich history, which is easily one of the best 5 (I've longed thought that the A's should have one big night where they honor the true greats of the distant past (Foxx, Grove, Gehringer, Simmons, and others) while also praising their more recent heroes (Jackson, Rickey, Eckersley, and McGwire). They might draw a better following if they played up their rich history which might be second to only the Yankees (quite possibly the Cardinals too). At least they finally honored Jackson this year.

**ElHalo** · 10-11-2004, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by nightal

But I'm sure YOU had no problem with Reggie donning a Yankees cap.

I actually have a problem with Reggie being in the Hall at all. I don't think outfielders with .262 career averages should be in the lineup, much less the Hall.

I'll leave my comments on first basemen with .263 career averages, like McGwire, for another day.

**cws55** · 10-11-2004, 06:40 PM

Cardinals cap...those were the best days...the years that meant the most and brought baseball back. Of course thats all in my opinion.

**west coast orange and black** · 10-11-2004, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by ElHalo

It has to be the A's. There'd be absolutely no sense in putting him in a cap for a team he played two full seasons and parts of 3 others for.

were you kidding, then, eh, about rickey going into the hall possibly depicted in a bluejays cap?

anywaze, about big mac: if the hof committee listens to mcgwire, then he is entering in a cardinals cap... but supposedly they do not take to being lobbied.

**ElHalo** · 10-11-2004, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by west coast orange and black

were you kidding, then, eh, about rickey going into the hall possibly depicted in a bluejays cap?

Yes, of course. He has to go in as A. The only other one that's even semi-logical is the Yankees, and he certainly ain't a Yankee.

I picked the Blue Jays because I believe he only played there for about two months of his career. Though they were an exciting two months.

**west coast orange and black** · 10-11-2004, 09:30 PM

aw, i knew that you were just funnin'.

**DoubleX** · 10-12-2004, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by ElHalo

I actually have a problem with Reggie being in the Hall at all. I don't think outfielders with .262 career averages should be in the lineup, much less the Hall.

I'll leave my comments on first basemen with .263 career averages, like McGwire, for another day.

Errg, always with this blind bias for shiny averages. First, Jackson actually batted 6 points above league average. Had he played during the 1930's, 6 points above league would make him a .300 career hitter, and then you're silly blind bias would have no problem with Jackson. You're unfairly punishing him for his era while you unjustly reward players of earlier eras when high averages were the norm - you can't have it both ways! If you're going to reward a .300 hitter in a .295 league then you can't hold it against a .265 hitter in a .260 league, it essentially means the same thing! Plus, in Jackson's case, for the bulk of his prime, he routintely batted at least 20 points above league and often batted over 30 points above league average - his career average is skewed by his first few years and his decline after he left the Yankees.

Now on to why Jackson is a hall of famer...He had a +139 OPS (plus his OBP was over 90 points higher than his average and over 30 points higher than league OBP, meaning that he knew how to get on base), an MVP (and 7 top ten finishes), 14 all-star games, 4 homerun titles, 14 times in the top ten in homeruns, and retired with the sixth most homeruns ever! Had Jackson played in a more offensive friendly era, he might have hit 700 homeruns. Jackson was the preeminent slugger of his day (along with Schmidt), and one of the greatest homerun hitters of all time. He wasn't just a good slugger and good homerun hitter, he was one of the most prolific sluggers the game had seen when he retired, not to mention that he was the centerpiece of 3 pennants won by your Yankees, and that's why he's in the hall of fame.

**Imapotato** · 10-12-2004, 06:33 AM

"Thanks GNC"

That's his cap

**Imapotato** · 10-12-2004, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by ElHalo

I actually have a problem with Reggie being in the Hall at all. I don't think outfielders with .262 career averages should be in the lineup, much less the Hall.

I'll leave my comments on first basemen with .263 career averages, like McGwire, for another day.

You are consistent.

But are you seeing a pattern here with 1970's players?
Low Averages, Slightly high power that looks minisule today?

Jackson and Schmidt are ALOT alike...both are HOFers, both are not the greatest at their position.

**dgarza** · 10-12-2004, 07:37 AM

Mac broke the record as an A!

He became a face on People magazine as a Card (I don't know if he made People magazine, but I hope you know what I'm getting at.)

**west coast orange and black** · 10-12-2004, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by dgarza

Mac broke the record as an A!

He became a face on People magazine as a Card (I don't know if he made People magazine, but I hope you know what I'm getting at.)

i think that you are saying that although mcgwire established the single-season homer record as a cardinal, he put up most of his numbers while with the a's. ok, coolio. but my earlier remarks were pointed to mcgwire's own words - that he wanted (still wants?) to be inducted as a cardinal.

btw: i do not read people; i can not recall the last time that i saw a people cover; i do not get your drift.

**dgarza** · 10-12-2004, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by west coast orange and black

i think that you are saying that although mcgwire established the single-season homer record as a cardinal, he put up most of his numbers while with the a's. ok, coolio. but my earlier remarks were pointed to mcgwire's own words - that he wanted (still wants?) to be inducted as a cardinal.

btw: i do not read people; i can not recall the last time that i saw a people cover; i do not get your drift.

Talkin' 'bout that 87 record

**RuthMayBond** · 10-12-2004, 09:28 AM

I thought the Hall had the final decision on which cap, no matter what the player may want. I'm sure they try to get one mutually agreeable.

**west coast orange and black** · 10-12-2004, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by dgarza

Talkin' 'bout that 87 record

oh, his rookie record. the one that i expect not to be broken.

um, do rookie records really amount to much on their own? i do not think so. there have been many players who had the world on a string as rookies but then simply did not measure up or who even greatly faltered. now, mcgwire is certainly not one of them, but by and large hardly anyone speaks of rookie records, much less points to one as a hall of fame credit.

the fact that few (no?) major mlb records are owned by rookies attests to this. (awkward sentence; thanx for staying with me.)

**west coast orange and black** · 10-12-2004, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by RuthMayBond

I thought the Hall had the final decision on which cap, no matter what the player may want. I'm sure they try to get one mutually agreeable.

the hall voters have the final say, sure. but some big-leaguers have gone so far as to say that they would boycott his own induction if the selected cap was not to his liking. (most recently, clemens.) this is out-and-out petitioning.

**dgarza** · 10-12-2004, 12:05 PM

regarding Reggie:
8 of the 20 (it is 20, right?) players with 500+ HRs batted under .280 life-time

just a note...

**santotohof** · 10-14-2004, 09:21 AM

He'll probably avoid the conflict and proudly wear a GNC hat.Why not? I saw him at a celebrity golf tourney in Jersey 1.5 years after his retirement and ,while he was still a large man, he looked like someone had stuck a pin in him

**MudvilleMike** · 10-14-2004, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by DoubleX

Errg, always with this blind bias for shiny averages.

This kind of thing just kills me, but it was so much worse years ago. I think we'll be pretty much done with the BA bias in the near future.

**SlickJ** · 10-18-2004, 07:46 AM

I think he'll wear an A's hat at his Hall of Fame induction.

I believe Big Mac holds the Oakland A's record for most home runs (overall A's franchise record is Jimmie Fox, I think) so it would make sense for him to wear the A's cap.

I could be wrong though.

Jason Maier