Ask The Umpire

[Chris O'Leary]

I always thought that if a batted ball struck either first or third base, it was a fair ball.

It is.

The ump didn't look back to see where it landed.

I think the ump was just staying low because he didn't know how high the ball had bounced and he wanted to make sure it got over him -- he doesn't move until the ball lands, so he may have been listening for it to land -- before he came out of his stance and made the call.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big...rn=mlb-wp23895

[AAACityLeague]

Thanks to both of you. Another reason I was questioning myself is that neither McCarver nor Buck said "...the ball hit the bag, it's fair.." They started to talk about the umpire making the fair call.

[rodk]

I know hitters and catchers aren't supposed to turn around on the umpire if they doesn't like a pitch call. Fair enough. But I'm not up to all the protocols since I haven't played in a long time, so did I screw this situation up?

I'm hitting in the 45 plus league and the pitcher is about 60 years old.

I thought the umpire called the first pitch to me "high." It was one of those slow slow pitches, maybe 45 mph, with a hump, like a stickball pitch intended to drop into the zone and yet be too high for a hitter to reach as it passes him, but I kneeled a little on it in case it was a curve dropped sooner than the pitcher wanted it to.

But it remained relatively flat eventually came about eye high after the adjustment. I couldn't take a cut at it up there on 0-0, but I also wouldn't have had an issue if it was a strike in that league. I heard a iiii grunt and took my stance for the next one, thinking that pitch was called high.

I took the next pitch for a strike but I was surprised to hear it was strike two.

I (unthinkingly) turned around and said I thought he called the first one high, whereupon Blue said because I ducked, it was a strike, and that is what he had called. I had no dispute with it being a strike, just was suprised it had been one without me knowing that. I said without sarcasm "OK" to accept Blue's reasonable explanation of why the first was a strike, and turned back and went about my business without saying or hinting what thought about the quality of Blue's diction.

Was I up to or over the line on turning around on the umpire even though I wasn't disputing a call, just verifying the count? Am I supposed to call time and pretend to adjust my batting gloves or something while I'm doing that so as to preserve his dignity and authority?

For the record, there were no fans or relatives at the game, and if there had been, they are only 5 feet off the dugouts, so the conversation is audible to them.

Thanks.

[BBUmpFan]

I know hitters and catchers aren't supposed to turn around on the umpire if they doesn't like a pitch call. Fair enough. But I'm not up to all the protocols since I haven't played in a long time, so did I screw this situation up?

I'm hitting in the 45 plus league and the pitcher is about 60 years old.

I thought the umpire called the first pitch to me "high." It was one of those slow slow pitches, maybe 45 mph, with a hump, like a stickball pitch intended to drop into the zone and yet be too high for a hitter to reach as it passes him, but I kneeled a little on it in case it was a curve dropped sooner than the pitcher wanted it to.

But it remained relatively flat eventually came about eye high after the adjustment. I couldn't take a cut at it up there on 0-0, but I also wouldn't have had an issue if it was a strike in that league. I heard a iiii grunt and took my stance for the next one, thinking that pitch was called high.

I took the next pitch for a strike but I was surprised to hear it was strike two.

I (unthinkingly) turned around and said I thought he called the first one high, whereupon Blue said because I ducked, it was a strike, and that is what he had called. I had no dispute with it being a strike, just was suprised it had been one without me knowing that. I said without sarcasm "OK" to accept Blue's reasonable explanation of why the first was a strike, and turned back and went about my business without saying or hinting what thought about the quality of Blue's diction.

Was I up to or over the line on turning around on the umpire even though I wasn't disputing a call, just verifying the count? Am I supposed to call time and pretend to adjust my batting gloves or something while I'm doing that so as to preserve his dignity and authority?

For the record, there were no fans or relatives at the game, and if there had been, they are only 5 feet off the dugouts, so the conversation is audible to them.

Thanks.

HTBT to know for sure how it went. But, body language tells a lot. If you turn around calmly and ask your question, then turn back around saying OK with a simple head shake of yes. All should be good and everyone sees the situation is nothing to be concerned with. PU shouldn't be upset in the least.

But, if you do it, then turn around with a little "I don't know about that" kind of look on your face. Now, it looks like you are disputing the pitch he just called and letting everyone know it with your looks and body language. Now, the PU may be a little miffed about your antics.

So, it depends on how your questioned it and then what you did after questioning the umpire. It sounds like you did fine but I wasn't there to read the body language during and after the conversation. That tells a lot more than the question you ask.

[mcloven]

Is there any reasonable/respectful way to deal with a situation where an opposing coach has intimidated an umpire into changing the strike zone (youth/travel ball) by yelling and screaming?

We had a situation where the opposing coach was on the umpire so much re balls/strikes early on that it was clear to players, coaches, and fans that he shrunk the strike zone for the opposition team's batters, while keeping a relatively large strike zone for our players. I felt like I was at a disadvantage because I was a "nice guy" and didn't scream at the umpire (I think acting like a jerk almost always backfires, plus, personally I think that life is too short--and it's disrespectful--to scream at another adult during a kids' game--but this time it was abundantly clear that the over-the-top arguing worked this time).

Do you just have to deal with it and move on? Or, do you have to "protect your team" by doing something in that situation?

[JRH11]

I have a double play question.

Scenario #1: First and third with one out. The batter hits it to the first baseman, who starts a 3-6-3 double play. Obvioulsy, the run does not count.

Scenario #2: First and third with one out. The batter hits it to the first baseman, who steps on first. He throws it to the SS, but the runner going to second stops and is now in a rundown. The runner from third scores prior to the runner going to second being tagged out. Does the run count?

Thx!

[Chris O'Leary]

Scenario #2: First and third with one out. The batter hits it to the first baseman, who steps on first. He throws it to the SS, but the runner going to second stops and is now in a rundown. The runner from third scores prior to the runner going to second being tagged out. Does the run count?

Yes, as long as he crosses the plate before the last out is made.

[BBUmpFan]

I have a double play question.

Scenario #1: First and third with one out. The batter hits it to the first baseman, who starts a 3-6-3 double play. Obvioulsy, the run does not count.

Scenario #2: First and third with one out. The batter hits it to the first baseman, who steps on first. He throws it to the SS, but the runner going to second stops and is now in a rundown. The runner from third scores prior to the runner going to second being tagged out. Does the run count?

Thx!

Once F3 stepped on 1B, the force of R1 was removed. Any time a force is removed, the question of runs scoring becomes a timing issue or "Time play".

Since the R3 scored before the tag of R1 after the force was removed, then the run scores. If the force was still in effect and it is the 3rd out, regardless of how R1 got out by tag of the base or the runner, then the run would not score.

[johnlanza]

7/8 year-olds.
Bases loaded. Two outs.
Grounder hit to the shortstop.
As ball gets to his glove, the runner from second runs into the shortstop (not on purpose - just a young player not going behind the fielder), causing the ball to pop out of the shortstop's glove. Is it interference if the ball gets to the fielder before the runner runs into the fielder?
And what about the runner on third? His run wouldn't count, would it? I'm thinking dead ball if interference is called.

[Chris O'Leary]

Is it interference if the ball gets to the fielder before the runner runs into the fielder?
And what about the runner on third? His run wouldn't count, would it? I'm thinking dead ball if interference is called.

Generally, yes. He's still in the act of making the play.

The runner on third has to go back to third.

[jbooth]

7/8 year-olds.
Bases loaded. Two outs.
Grounder hit to the shortstop.
As ball gets to his glove, the runner from second runs into the shortstop (not on purpose - just a young player not going behind the fielder), causing the ball to pop out of the shortstop's glove. Is it interference if the ball gets to the fielder before the runner runs into the fielder?
And what about the runner on third? His run wouldn't count, would it? I'm thinking dead ball if interference is called.

A runner must avoid a fielder attempting to field a batted ball, and he is out if he interferes, whether the interference was intentional or not.

The runner is out, the ball is dead and no runners may advance. In your play, the runner is out and no runs may score, unless R3 touched the plate before the interference occurred.

7.08 Any runner is out when—
(b) He intentionally interferes with a thrown ball; or hinders a fielder attempting to
make a play on a batted ball;
Rule 7.08(b) Comment: A runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to
make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not.

7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when—
(j) He fails to avoid a fielder who is attempting to field a batted ball ...

PENALTY FOR INTERFERENCE: The runner is out and the ball is dead.
Rule 2.00 INTERFERENCE
(a) Offensive interference is an act by the team at bat which interferes with,
obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play.
If the umpire declares the batter, batter-runner, or a runner out for interference,
all other runners shall return to the last base that was in the judgment of the
umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference, unless otherwise
provided by these rules.

[Chris O'Leary]

A runner must avoid a fielder attempting to field a batted ball

I've always assumed "attempting to field" a ball includes the throw, and interpreted and called it that way, but I was a little surprised when it wasn't explicitly stated.

When does the window for interference close?

When the ball is in the glove or when the ball leaves the fielder's hand after the throw?

I ask in part because double play break-ups at second base often blur that line (but I guess the difference is that it's a relay throw and not a batted ball).

[jbooth]

I've always assumed "attempting to field" a ball includes the throw, and interpreted and called it that way, but I was a little surprised when it wasn't explicitly stated.

When does the window for interference close?

When the ball is in the glove or when the ball leaves the fielder's hand after the throw?

I ask in part because double play break-ups at second base often blur that line (but I guess the difference is that it's a relay throw and not a batted ball).

You're talking about two different things.

On a BATTED ball, the fielder is protected from being interfered with, from the time the ump judges that that fielder has a play on the BATTED ball, up through and including the gloving of the ball, and an attempt to throw it.

On plays at second base, it isn't a batted ball any longer. The fielder at second, receiving a throw, is attempting a play on a THROWN ball. Interference with a THROWN ball requires INTENT to interfere, before a penalty is applied. INTENT to interfere is a judgment call, and the judgment is based upon whether the runner made a move that was specifically designed to interfere, and was not just part of his attempt to reach the base. Now, we all know that the runner tries to interfere, but the runner is not allowed to commit actions that are blatantly not part of his action to get to the base. He IS allowed to slide, or not slide and make the play more difficult for the fielder, but he is not allowed to swat at the fielder or the ball, or go farther away from the base than his ability to still touch it, in going at the fielder.

7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when—
(e) Any batter or runner who has just been put out, or any runner who has just scored,
hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall
be declared out for the interference of his teammate;

A runner forced at second is governed by the above rule. He is already out, and cannot intentionally interfere with the throw to first. Intent is doing something blatantly different from trying to get to the base.

The following rule deals with the pivot at second on a DP attempt;

6.05 A batter is out when—
(m) A preceding runner shall, in the umpire’s judgment, intentionally interfere with a
fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to
complete any play:
Rule 6.05(m) Comment: The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate,
unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of
crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an
umpire’s judgment play.

From the MLB umpire manual

Note that under the Official Baseball Rules, a fielder is protected while in the act of fielding a
batted ball. In addition, a fielder is also protected while in the act of making a play after having
fielded a batted ball. If, after a player has fielded a batted ball but before he is able to throw the
ball, a runner hinders or impedes such fielder, the runner shall be called out for interference.
Furthermore, a runner who is judged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play
on a batted ball is out whether the hindrance was intentional or not.

While contact may occur between a fielder and runner during a tag attempt, a runner is not
allowed to use his hands or arms to commit an obviously malicious or unsportsmanlike act-such
as grabbing, tackling, intentionally slapping at the baseball, punching, kicking, flagrantly using
his arms or forearms, etc.-to commit an intentional act of interference unrelated to running the
bases. Further, if in the judgment of the umpire such intentional act was to prevent a double play,
the umpire would rule the batter-runner out as well.

GUIDELINES:
In sliding to a base, the runner should be able to reach the base with his hand or foot.
A runner who, in the judgment of the umpire, contacts or attempts to make contact with a fielder
with a slide or roll block that is not a bona fide effort to reach and stay on the base may be called
out for interference and, when appropriate, a double play may be called.
Any definite change in direction by the runner to contact the fielder would be considered
interference.
If a runner hits the dirt, slides, and rolls, it does not constitute a rolling block unless the runner
leaves his feet and makes contact with the fielder before the
runner slides on the ground. If the initial contact is with the fielder instead of the ground for the
purpose of breaking up a double play, it is a roll block.

[pitcher14]

I have read that it is a 'myth' that the batter is out if he steps on home plate yet I still had an umpire call it this year in a Rec ball, 11-12yr old, Dizzy Dean League.

The facts, which fell on deaf ears w/both umpires, seem to be as follows -

Rule 6.06A states that the foot needs to be completely out of the batters box. No where does it state anything about home plate. So unless the league makes a specific rule, which I do not see why they would and our local league has not, a player can have his foot within the box and also on home plate. Dizzy Dean field layout states 4" between plate and box -

6.06
A batter is out for illegal action when --
(a) He hits a ball with one or both feet on the ground entirely outside the batter’s box.
Rule 6.06(a) Comment: If a batter hits a ball fair or foul while out of the batter’s box, he shall be called out. Umpires should pay particular attention to the position of the batter’s feet if he attempts to hit the ball while he is being intentionally passed. A batter cannot jump or step out of the batter’s box and hit the ball.

The discussion was pretty good because the umpire put his foot down half in the box, half on the plate - he said, "I am on the plate", I said, "Plate doesn't make a difference, you have to be all the way out of the box AND your foot is in the box."

He said, "I am on the plate." I said, "You are in the box," as I pointed at his heel still in the box.

Base ump came over, put his foot down in the same spot, "I am on the plate." I reply, "You are in the box," and I continued to point to the heel.

Needless to say, they did not give in. I told them they need to go home and do some reading. The next day I am at the park, I see the same crew doing a Travel League game. I yell over, "Hey, did you go home and do your reading?" And the reply was, "Yes, and we were right." Unbelievable. With time to get it right they still failed. I replied, "Go read 6.06A!" and left it at that, saddened that they would not want to get better and learn.

So at this point, I want to put it out to the gang - how do you interpret rule 6.06A and/or 'stepping on home plate you are out'?

I look forward to replies from coaches and umpires alike.

[jbooth]

I have read that it is a 'myth' that the batter is out if he steps on home plate yet I still had an umpire call it this year in a Rec ball, 11-12yr old, Dizzy Dean League.

The facts, which fell on deaf ears w/both umpires, seem to be as follows -

Rule 6.06A states that the foot needs to be completely out of the batters box. No where does it state anything about home plate. So unless the league makes a specific rule, which I do not see why they would and our local league has not, a player can have his foot within the box and also on home plate. Dizzy Dean field layout states 4" between plate and box -



The discussion was pretty good because the umpire put his foot down half in the box, half on the plate - he said, "I am on the plate", I said, "Plate doesn't make a difference, you have to be all the way out of the box AND your foot is in the box."

He said, "I am on the plate." I said, "You are in the box," as I pointed at his heel still in the box.

Base ump came over, put his foot down in the same spot, "I am on the plate." I reply, "You are in the box," and I continued to point to the heel.

Needless to say, they did not give in. I told them they need to go home and do some reading. The next day I am at the park, I see the same crew doing a Travel League game. I yell over, "Hey, did you go home and do your reading?" And the reply was, "Yes, and we were right." Unbelievable. With time to get it right they still failed. I replied, "Go read 6.06A!" and left it at that, saddened that they would not want to get better and learn.

So at this point, I want to put it out to the gang - how do you interpret rule 6.06A and/or 'stepping on home plate you are out'?

I look forward to replies from coaches and umpires alike.

You are right, and they are ignorant umpires. The plate is irrelevant. It's simply a matter of whether the foot is ENTIRELY out of the box or not.

Some umps get confused if they work baseball and softball. In High School softball rules, and I think in ASA softball, the batter is out if the ball is hit while the foot is out of the box, OR while touching the plate. I think it is also true in Slo-pitch softball, but they are absolutely wrong under baseball rules.

The softball rules specifically mention the plate. Baseball rule 6.06a makes absolutely no reference to the plate, and the sentence is very clear; the batter is out when the foot is ENTIRELY outside the lines.

Here is my website explanation, with photos http://baseball-rules.com/batterbox.htm

[BBUmpFan]

You are right, and they are ignorant umpires. The plate is irrelevant. It's simply a matter of whether the foot is ENTIRELY out of the box or not.

Some umps get confused if they work baseball and softball. In High School softball rules, and I think in ASA softball, the batter is out if the ball is hit while the foot is out of the box, OR while touching the plate. I think it is also true in Slo-pitch softball, but they are absolutely wrong under baseball rules.

The softball rules specifically mention the plate. Baseball rule 6.06a makes absolutely no reference to the plate, and the sentence is very clear; the batter is out when the foot is ENTIRELY outside the lines.

Here is my website explanation, with photos http://baseball-rules.com/batterbox.htm

I could be wrong but I believe HS baseball rules have the plate part as well which may be the entire issue if these umpires call HS ball or just simply listen to myths.

However, under Dizzy Dean and any other rules based on OBR, the batter is not out for simply touching HP. The umpires were incorrect upon their interpretation of the rule if they even bothered to look it up or ask other umpires. It only matters if the foot is entirely outside the white lines. If any part of the foot is touching any white line, the batter is legally in the box.

[jbooth]

I could be wrong but I believe HS baseball rules have the plate part as well which may be the entire issue if these umpires call HS ball or just simply listen to myths.

However, under Dizzy Dean and any other rules based on OBR, the batter is not out for simply touching HP. The umpires were incorrect upon their interpretation of the rule if they even bothered to look it up or ask other umpires. It only matters if the foot is entirely outside the white lines. If any part of the foot is touching any white line, the batter is legally in the box.

I have a very old NFHS rulebook (1999), and it does say the batter is out if he is out of the box OR touches the plate.

This is a strange rule for softball and HS to make. It makes no sense. I could have my foot entirely outside the box with my foot in front or in back of the plate, and be called out, but I can have only half of my foot out of the box, and be called out, if it touches the plate.

IOW, halfway out is OK in front or behind the plate, but not at the plate. Dumb rule.

[scorekeeper]

Would someone familiar with the bat rules for LLI and BR, please comment on whether this post is true or not?

I am pretty sure only composite barrel bats need to be bbcor for ll jr and babe ruth. Alloy barrels can still have a bigger drop.

[baseballdad]

Balks still confuse me. We always say the pitcher has to step off the back rubber before throwing to a base but a RH pitcher after they come set can pick up their front foot, turn and throw to 3rd legally. From the set position if a pitcher picks up their front foot, turns and throws to 1st is it a balk?

[jbooth]

Balks still confuse me. We always say the pitcher has to step off the back rubber before throwing to a base but a RH pitcher after they come set can pick up their front foot, turn and throw to 3rd legally. From the set position if a pitcher picks up their front foot, turns and throws to 1st is it a balk?

The pitcher does NOT have to step off the rubber to throw to a base.
Balk rules govern the pitcher. He IS the pitcher when he is ON the rubber. If he steps off, he is NOT the pitcher, and only the pitcher can balk.

Have you ever read the rules?

8.01(b) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands
facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the
pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a
complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw to
a base or step backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot. Before assuming
Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary motion such as
that known as “the stretch.”
(c) At any time during the pitcher’s preliminary movements and until his natural
pitching motion commits him to the pitch, he may throw to any base provided he
steps directly toward such base before making the throw.

You might want to watch my video on the pitching rules. A couple of things have changed since the video was made, but it is fine to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs3U4TALi4A

[baseballdad]

Thanks. The video was informative too.

[theorech]

We are switching to a royal vest and planned on doing a short-sleeve or long-sleeve WHITE Under Armour type shirt as the under-garment. Is this going to pose any issue with our pitchers? My understanding is that it ONLY applies to true under-garments, not shirts part of the actual uniform the rest of the team will be wearing.

Can someone clarify? Thanks in advance!

B

[BBUmpFan]

We are switching to a royal vest and planned on doing a short-sleeve or long-sleeve WHITE Under Armour type shirt as the under-garment. Is this going to pose any issue with our pitchers? My understanding is that it ONLY applies to true under-garments, not shirts part of the actual uniform the rest of the team will be wearing.

Can someone clarify? Thanks in advance!

B

Depends on ruleset.

OBR has nothing about white sleeves. Only as long as the uniform matches the rest of the team.

I believe HS is different. Nothing white below the pitcher's throwing arm elbow.

[chain220]

Right handed pitcher, runner on second.. high school rule set.

Pitcher throws a pitch, comes back to the mound and sets himself as basically a lefty would (left foot on the rubber). Pitcher steps off the back of the rubber with his left foot and throws to second. Obviously a quicker and easier throw for a righty than a normal pick off move. Balk or legal? (this is all assuming the opposing team doesn't notice, because the runner would obviously simply just stand on the bag as the pitcher can't exactly pitch set up backwards)

[Roothog66]

Right handed pitcher, runner on second.. high school rule set.

Pitcher throws a pitch, comes back to the mound and sets himself as basically a lefty would (left foot on the rubber). Pitcher steps off the back of the rubber with his left foot and throws to second. Obviously a quicker and easier throw for a righty than a normal pick off move. Balk or legal? (this is all assuming the opposing team doesn't notice, because the runner would obviously simply just stand on the bag as the pitcher can't exactly pitch set up backwards)

Wow! This one interests me, because I've thought of it before. I see nothing in the rules that define the pivot foot as having to be the off-glove side foot. If you brought in a relief pitcher with a runner on second, it might not even ring any bells for the runner since he hasn't seen him yet. JB?