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Thread: Ask The Umpire

  1. #1081
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    There is a runner on first base. The batter takes a step infront of the plate at the same time as he hits the pitched ball (he is out of the batters box).
    The batter is to be called out. But what should happen to the runner that advances?
    K@L£$tя()/\/\

  2. #1082
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyers90 View Post
    There is a runner on first base. The batter takes a step infront of the plate at the same time as he hits the pitched ball (he is out of the batters box).
    The batter is to be called out. But what should happen to the runner that advances?
    The ball is dead when the batter is called out. No runners may advance when the ball is dead, so the runner in your play, goes back to first.

  3. #1083
    Great thread guys. Been umpiring for about 15 years here. Got a fun play for you. I had the dish, and there was a batted ball to the shortstop. It was to the right of him and he bobbled it all the way to dead ball territory. It was a very slow developing play, and by the time I called a dead ball the runner was already standing on 2nd base. Does he stay on 2nd, or advance to third on the dead ball? What do you have?

  4. #1084
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    Quote Originally Posted by donniebaseball23 View Post
    Great thread guys. Been umpiring for about 15 years here. Got a fun play for you. I had the dish, and there was a batted ball to the shortstop. It was to the right of him and he bobbled it all the way to dead ball territory. It was a very slow developing play, and by the time I called a dead ball the runner was already standing on 2nd base. Does he stay on 2nd, or advance to third on the dead ball? What do you have?
    I used to be an ump, so I'll take a crack at it. If the runner was AT 2nd when the ball was last touched by the fielder (essentially when he "threw" it out of play), then the runner should be awarded home.

    But, don't quote me on that!

  5. #1085
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    Quote Originally Posted by donniebaseball23 View Post
    Great thread guys. Been umpiring for about 15 years here. Got a fun play for you. I had the dish, and there was a batted ball to the shortstop. It was to the right of him and he bobbled it all the way to dead ball territory. It was a very slow developing play, and by the time I called a dead ball the runner was already standing on 2nd base. Does he stay on 2nd, or advance to third on the dead ball? What do you have?
    It's a batted ball that went out of play. The batter and all runners get two bases from time of pitch. The batter gets second.

    7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advanceó

    (f) Two bases, if a fair ball bounces or is deflected into the stands outside the first or third base foul lines; or if it goes through or under a field fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery or vines on the fence; or if it sticks in such fence, scoreboard, shrubbery or vines;


    On a batted ball, the award is always from the time of pitch, not from where the runners were when the ball went out of play.

    On a thrown ball that goes out of play, the award is from where the runners were when the ball left the throwers hand, or time of pitch if it's the first play by an infielder.

    No out of play award is EVER based upon where the runners were when the ball went out of play.

  6. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipitch View Post
    I used to be an ump, so I'll take a crack at it. If the runner was AT 2nd when the ball was last touched by the fielder (essentially when he "threw" it out of play), then the runner should be awarded home.

    But, don't quote me on that!
    He didn't throw it out of play, he deflected it out of play. And, for a runner to be awarded bases if it WAS a throw that went out of play, the award is from where he was when the throw left the fielders hand, IF the batter and all runners have advanced at least one base before the throw left his hand.

    It's a batted ball that went out of play. The batter and all runners get two bases from time of pitch. The batter gets second.

    7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advanceó

    (f) Two bases, if a fair ball bounces or is deflected into the stands outside the first or third base foul lines; or if it goes through or under a field fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery or vines on the fence; or if it sticks in such fence, scoreboard, shrubbery or vines;


    On a batted ball, the award is always from the time of pitch, not from where the runners were when the ball went out of play.

    On a thrown ball that goes out of play, the award is from where the runners were when the ball left the throwers hand, or time of pitch if it's the first play by an infielder.

    No out of play award is EVER based upon where the runners were when the ball went out of play.

  7. #1087
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbooth View Post
    He didn't throw it out of play, he deflected it out of play. And, for a runner to be awarded bases if it WAS a throw that went out of play, the award is from where he was when the throw left the fielders hand, IF the batter and all runners have advanced at least one base before the throw left his hand.

    It's a batted ball that went out of play. The batter and all runners get two bases from time of pitch. The batter gets second.

    7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advanceó

    (f) Two bases, if a fair ball bounces or is deflected into the stands outside the first or third base foul lines; or if it goes through or under a field fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery or vines on the fence; or if it sticks in such fence, scoreboard, shrubbery or vines;


    On a batted ball, the award is always from the time of pitch, not from where the runners were when the ball went out of play.

    On a thrown ball that goes out of play, the award is from where the runners were when the ball left the throwers hand, or time of pitch if it's the first play by an infielder.

    No out of play award is EVER based upon where the runners were when the ball went out of play.
    I was wrong about the rule (I forgot about the "first play by a fielder" rule), but I said "if the runner was AT 2nd when the ball was last touched by the fielder". I never said "when the ball went out of play".

    So, what if the shortstop made the same misplay, but the batted ball had deflected off of the 3rd baseman's glove first? Does the third baseman's deflection count as the "first play"?

  8. #1088
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipitch View Post
    I was wrong about the rule (I forgot about the "first play by a fielder" rule), but I said "if the runner was AT 2nd when the ball was last touched by the fielder". I never said "when the ball went out of play".

    So, what if the shortstop made the same misplay, but the batted ball had deflected off of the 3rd baseman's glove first? Does the third baseman's deflection count as the "first play"?
    No. For purposes of rule 7.05g a "play" is an attempt to retire a runner, AFTER the fielder gets possession of the ball. Fielding a batted ball, for purposes of THIS rule, is not a "play."

    A batted ball could deflect off of all 9 fielders before going out of play, and when it finally goes out of play, he batter will be given second base, even if he had time to score before the ball went out of play.

    Of course those would have to be legitimate deflections. If a fielder intentionally knocks the ball out of play, then it is treated like a thrown ball that went out of play, and the batter and runners would get two bases from where they were when the fielder deflected/threw it.

  9. #1089
    Yep at the time I admit I ruled it wrong. I gave the runner third base. Of course the coach came out to argue with me. That's what you gotta love about baseball, any given game you still might see a play that you have never seen before. Talk to you guys soon.

  10. #1090
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekD View Post
    I don't see where the umpire agreed to anything. If something is wrong with the mound, it certainly needs fixed. It doesn't involve a meeting between the manager and pitcher to do it though. It's similar to an injury timeout to me. Address the injury to the player. Discussing the game or strategy change or whatever could result in a charged visit to the pitcher.

    This would give the pitcher time to reset and have a short talk with the manager, while they fixed the hole at the end of the mound.

    It's implied that the manager talked with the pitcher. Seems clear to me.

    Bob

  11. #1091
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluezebra View Post
    This would give the pitcher time to reset and have a short talk with the manager, while they fixed the hole at the end of the mound.

    It's implied that the manager talked with the pitcher. Seems clear to me.

    Bob
    I guess Iím a bit too long in the tooth to take what someone says he thinks happened or implies happened as fact.

    Iím sure starman was telling it as best he remembered, but as soon as he said: It SEEMED like everytime the pitcher gave up a hit or two during an inning the manager would call time to come out and so call it, fix the mound, the entire tale and how it happened and why became very dubious to me.

    Even the biggest wuss ump Iíve ever seen wouldnít allow that same stunt to be pulled over and over again as was implied. And, if the mound really was in need of repair, why canít the manager talk to his P about anything he wants? Perhaps Iím wrong, but I donít see that as any different than if say the lights went out during a night game, or a section of the OF fence fell down and needed repaired.

    I guess my view has been somewhat tainted over the years because of arguing with umps ans assns about allowing HS games to be played when its obvious that something on the field isnít meeting the rules, usually a mound.

    To me, the only person who may suspend play is an umpire, and if he thought there was no reason to repair the mound in question, heíd never keep play suspended. And, I have full confidence in umpires HSV or above, that they know when to charge a visit.

    OBR 3.10 (c) The umpire-in-chief shall be the sole judge as to whether and when play shall be suspended during a game because of unsuitable weather conditions or the unfit condition of the playing field; as to whether and when the play shall be resumed after such suspension; and as to whether and when a game shall be terminated after such suspensionÖ.
    The pitcher whoís afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

  12. #1092
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorekeeper View Post
    I guess Iím a bit too long in the tooth to take what someone says he thinks happened or implies happened as fact.

    Iím sure starman was telling it as best he remembered, but as soon as he said: It SEEMED like everytime the pitcher gave up a hit or two during an inning the manager would call time to come out and so call it, fix the mound, the entire tale and how it happened and why became very dubious to me.

    Even the biggest wuss ump Iíve ever seen wouldnít allow that same stunt to be pulled over and over again as was implied. And, if the mound really was in need of repair, why canít the manager talk to his P about anything he wants? Perhaps Iím wrong, but I donít see that as any different than if say the lights went out during a night game, or a section of the OF fence fell down and needed repaired.

    I guess my view has been somewhat tainted over the years because of arguing with umps ans assns about allowing HS games to be played when its obvious that something on the field isnít meeting the rules, usually a mound.

    To me, the only person who may suspend play is an umpire, and if he thought there was no reason to repair the mound in question, heíd never keep play suspended. And, I have full confidence in umpires HSV or above, that they know when to charge a visit.

    OBR 3.10 (c) The umpire-in-chief shall be the sole judge as to whether and when play shall be suspended during a game because of unsuitable weather conditions or the unfit condition of the playing field; as to whether and when the play shall be resumed after such suspension; and as to whether and when a game shall be terminated after such suspensionÖ.
    And, if the mound really was in need of repair, why canít the manager talk to his P about anything he wants?

    Because it's a time out to repair the mound. The only reason the manager/coach should be out there is to do, or supervise, the repair. PERIOD.

    And, I have full confidence in umpires HSV or above, that they know when to charge a visit.

    You haven't worked with some of the schmucks I have. Especialy in some areas where there is a critical shortage of umpires.

    Bob

  13. #1093
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    stike zone

    why on god's green earth do umpires love the outside pitch? Seriously. Past weekend at a tournament for 10u, a pitch 3-4 inches off the plate were called strikes. In LL I could see it if kids aren't swinging, but travel ball has some kids looking to swing. Is it the 'right eye dominance' thing?

    I did a volunteer ump job at a scrimmage. An ump friend asked me to come down out of the bleachers. So I sit out there..and he's called a game for my team before and I knew he favored the outside, but my word.... he'd call 'em skimming off the dirt on outside plate. Said it was where the ball was when it crossed the plate. I said a curve ball might allow that, but the pitcher would have to be 30 feet tall to cross the plate at the knees and hit the dirt. I also saw him call one that was almost 4 inches off the outside yet not call inside of plate.

    What is it about that pitch, low and outside to RH batters, that gets umps to call it ? Too much TV?

  14. #1094
    Quote Originally Posted by pastime00 View Post
    why on god's green earth do umpires love the outside pitch? Seriously. Past weekend at a tournament for 10u, a pitch 3-4 inches off the plate were called strikes. In LL I could see it if kids aren't swinging, but travel ball has some kids looking to swing. Is it the 'right eye dominance' thing?

    I did a volunteer ump job at a scrimmage. An ump friend asked me to come down out of the bleachers. So I sit out there..and he's called a game for my team before and I knew he favored the outside, but my word.... he'd call 'em skimming off the dirt on outside plate. Said it was where the ball was when it crossed the plate. I said a curve ball might allow that, but the pitcher would have to be 30 feet tall to cross the plate at the knees and hit the dirt. I also saw him call one that was almost 4 inches off the outside yet not call inside of plate.

    What is it about that pitch, low and outside to RH batters, that gets umps to call it ? Too much TV?
    Personally I do anywhere from 10U to college club ball. I tend to open up the zone a little more for the younger kids, and the older they get I call more of a major league zone. If we don't give that outside (or inside) pitch to 10 year olds, it is going to be a walkathon, and no one wants to see that.

  15. #1095
    After a foul ball is hit, must the baserunners retouch the bag before the next pitch is thrown? Otherwise, what would allow them to be tagged and declared out?

    Just seems like if he doesn't have to retouch the bag, why is the runner sent back to begin with? Could he not just continue to stand 2 feet from the next base and step on it once the pitcher is on the mound? A bit extreme, yes, but valid I think.

  16. #1096
    Quote Originally Posted by Machiavelli View Post
    After a foul ball is hit, must the baserunners retouch the bag before the next pitch is thrown? Otherwise, what would allow them to be tagged and declared out?
    5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, whenó
    [ ... ]
    (e) A foul ball is not caught; runners return. The umpire shall not put the ball in play until all runners have retouched their bases;

  17. #1097
    Quote Originally Posted by tinseltown View Post
    5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when—
    [ ... ]
    (e) A foul ball is not caught; runners return. The umpire shall not put the ball in play until all runners have retouched their bases;
    Good find. That is exactly what I thought. I had asked our ump, who said he went to MLB camp a few years ago, and said it wasn't necessary.

  18. #1098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machiavelli View Post
    Good find. That is exactly what I thought. I had asked our ump, who said he went to MLB camp a few years ago, and said it wasn't necessary.
    In the real world, the ump doesn't always require the runners to literally retouch their base. Rule 5.09 has two purposes; 1. to protect the runner from being unfairly put out, by putting the ball in play before he has a chance to return to his base, and 2. to protect the defense from the scenario you posed where the runner could unfairly steal a base.

    Bascially, after a foul ball, the ump puts the ball in play when everybody is pretty much back to where they were and ready to start over. Technically runners should be back ON their base and the pitcher on the rubber with the ball, and the batter in the box, before the ump says play, but if a runner only goes back to within a step or two of the base and then waits for the ball to beput in play, there's no harm or penalty for that.

    The rule is directed at the umpire, it isn't a rule that penalizes any players. It's an instruction to the ump, to not put the ball in play when runners are sneaking around.

  19. #1099
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    If a runner is standing on third base and a high pop-up is hit that comes down exactly on the bag, can I assume that since the runner is entitled to the base. it would NOT be runner interference if he prevents the third baseman from making the catch by simply holding his ground? I'm not talking about the runner using his hands to push the third baseman or anything obvious like that, he's just standing right where the ball comes down and the third baseman is not able to catch it because of the runner's presence.
    Always go to other people's funerals, otherwise they won't come to yours. - Yogi Berra

  20. #1100
    Quote Originally Posted by Dodgerfan1 View Post
    If a runner is standing on third base and a high pop-up is hit that comes down exactly on the bag, can I assume that since the runner is entitled to the base. it would NOT be runner interference if he prevents the third baseman from making the catch by simply holding his ground? I'm not talking about the runner using his hands to push the third baseman or anything obvious like that, he's just standing right where the ball comes down and the third baseman is not able to catch it because of the runner's presence.
    The base is not a safe haven in the situation you stated unless the infield fly rule takes effect. Runner must give fielder the opportunity to field the ball.

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