Hoyt Wilhelm was the best knuckleball pitcher ever.
Dutch Emil Leonard was the best knuckleball pitcher ever.
Wilbur Wood was the best knuckleball pitcher ever.
Eddie Cicotte was the best knuckleball pitcher ever.
Tim Wakefield was the best knuckleball pitcher ever.
Phil Niekro was the best knuckleball pitcher ever.
Joe Niekro was the best knculeball pitcher ever.
Eddie Rommel was the best knuckleball pitcher ever.
Other: Someone else was the best knuckleball pitcher ever.
I just watched Tim Wakefield pitch against the Devil Rays. I started wondering who was the best Knuckleball pitcher. Was it Hoyt Wilhelm, Phil or Joe Niekro, or somebody else?
Last edited by tonypug; 07-27-2005 at 07:26 PM.
Lets get Eddie Basinski elected to the Polish Sports Hall of Fame.
www.brooklyndodgermemories.com
Wilhelm, career 2.52 ERA, great .... Dutch Leonard*, career W-L 191-181 for mostly stinko teams, great .... Eddie "Knuckles" Cicotte, 29 W one year, 28 another, but not entirely dependable in the post season ... all fine pitchers, but I'm going with a long-time favorite, and the only k-baller to put together four consecutive 20-win seasons ...
* Emil, not Hubert.
There's no crying at BBF!
I love his name. It sounds so deadball-ish to me. I can totally see him pitching for the 1906 White Sox...Originally Posted by westsidegrounds
You mean Tim, right?
EDDIE ROMMEL
The father of the modern knuckleball, Rommel used it to win 19 games as a starter and another 8 in relief for the 1922 Athletics to lead the AL with 27 wins. He led the league in victories again in 1925 with a 21-10 mark for the A's. He led the AL in relief wins in three different seasons. When the Athletics scored 10 runs in the seventh inning of Game Four of the 1929 WS to overcome an 8-0 Cubs lead, Rommel got the win in relief. In his final season on July 10, 1932, the Athletics defeated the Indians 18-17 in an 18-inning marathon. Rommel pitched 17 innings of relief and earned the win despite giving up 29 hits, 8 walks, and 14 runs. Rommel was a forgotten but important part of the A's success in the 20's and 30's
Troy, NY
Rich in Baseball History
TROY -- Mayor Harry Tutunjian's pitch to get Major League Baseball to pay on a nearly 125-year-old debt by getting the San Francisco Giants to play an exhibition game at Bruno Stadium has raised some interest on the West Coast.
Freaking politicians, I have a meeting to discuss this, and he takes credit for my idea
Yes, thanks for the correction.
Lets get Eddie Basinski elected to the Polish Sports Hall of Fame.
www.brooklyndodgermemories.com
Another good 'un! Especially in 1922 when he went 27-13 for a 65-89 team ... sadly, his best years came during some of the Athletics' bad ones - by the time they got good, in the late '20s, he was on his way out. Here's a picture .... hmmmm .... that doesn't look like an A's uniform ....
Was this the same Ed Rommel who was an american League umpire?
Lets get Eddie Basinski elected to the Polish Sports Hall of Fame.
www.brooklyndodgermemories.com
Yes, it absolutely was the same person.
Bill
And don't forget Jim "Bulldog" and/or "Bigmouth" Bouton!
... best selling knuckleballer, anyhow ....
Yeah.....but Bouton didn't attempt to develop his knuckleball until he was pretty much washed up - and it never really was all that good. Bouton was a terrific starting pitcher in two of his first three years in the bigs, but he threw regular pitches then. Then, after a couple of sore-armed seasons (1965-66) with the Yanks, he spent a couple of years mostly in the minors before reemerging with the Pilots in 1969, when he started developing his knuckler - and wasn't overly effective. After pitching for Houston in 1970, he called it quits. Until his comback seven years later where he threw nothing but knucklers. I'll never forget him pitching for the Braves in 1978 (heck, the Braves of that time had nothing to lose). He started five games and went 1-3 with a 4.97 ERA. But his lone win was against the NL champion Dodgers. They were ticked. I remember Davey Lopes saying that Bouton had no stuff whatsoever. Hey, probably not, but good enough for a win against Davey, Cey, Garvey and company.He quit again shortly after that.
That must have been enough to make it worthwhile ... woulda thought that LA team, from Lasorda on down, represented much of what Bouton despised in baseball...<...>his comback seven years later where he threw nothing but knucklers. I'll never forget him pitching for the Braves in 1978 (heck, the Braves of that time had nothing to lose). He started five games and went 1-3 with a 4.97 ERA. But his lone win was against the NL champion Dodgers. They were ticked. I remember Davey Lopes saying that Bouton had no stuff whatsoever. Hey, probably not, but good enough for a win against Davey, Cey, Garvey and company.
Phil Nikero, though Wakefield is awsome.
I'd have to go: 1. Phil Nikero, 2. Joe Niekro, 3, Hoyt Wihelm, 4. Time Wakefield
""I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball."
-Pete Rose
Nice pic, but here is a real pic of Field Marshal Bernard Law Montgomery's chief nemesis.
Cicotte would have won 30 in 1919, but cheap ass Comisky held him out of starts so his bonus didn't kick in. I also think he may have been better in the postseason had he not been "on the take".
Wakefield is a good pitcher, but he is nowhere near as good as the other guys on the list. He's been hot/cold rather than consistant and if not for a need on the Red Sox every year for a fourth and fifth start starter he would have been gone a long time ago.
I'd go with Niekro.
Best posts ever:
I understand, I lost all my marbles years ago
I totally agree with you. Wilhelm was good, but Knucksy was better!
This is tongue-in-cheek, right? Calling a Black Sox "not entirely dependable in the post-season?"
Depends on your point of view, really. If you're Arnold Rothstein, Cicotte was extremely dependable in the post-season. Your go-to guy.
Did Wilhelm always throw the knuckler or did he start throwing it after he was in the big leagues?
Lets get Eddie Basinski elected to the Polish Sports Hall of Fame.
www.brooklyndodgermemories.com
Is he the one who learned how to throw a knuckler from the back of a cereal box? (Story about Dutch Leonard, w/ photos of his grip.) Anyhow, yes, when he finally got to the bigs (after WW2, & then years in the minors) he was a knuckleballer all the way.
I kinda sympathize with Knuckles, Comiskey certainly belongs in the Cheap SOBs Hall of Fame, but still...This is tongue-in-cheek, right? Calling a Black Sox "not entirely dependable in the post-season?"
Depends on your point of view, really. If you're Arnold Rothstein, Cicotte was extremely dependable in the post-season. Your go-to guy.
Cicotte threw a bunch of other weird stuff - his famous "shine ball" ... the "coffee ball" ... maybe the "needle ball" ...
Let's talk about (and vote) on who we think is the best knuckleball pitcher of all time.
I say it's Phil Neikro because he made it to 300 wins, 3,000 strikeouts and lasted in the majors until age 48.
Others might say Hoyt Wilhelm because he's the all time leader in relief victories and lasted until 49.
So sound off
You're missing Dutch Leonard (the Senator)
Hoyt Wilhelm is the best, bar none.
I'll go with Niekro, Phil but the following were also very good:
Eddie Cicotte
Jesse Haines - more of a knuckle curve
Ted Lyons
Eddie Rommel
Tom Seaton
Bobby Shantz
Thanks for the other names. I just couldn't think of them off the top of my head :P
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