Here's a team I posted on another board. What do you guys think?
1B Albert Pujols
2B Rogers Hornsby
SS Ozzie Smith
3B Ken Boyer
LF Stan Musial
CF Jim Edmonds
RF Enos Slaughter
C Joe Torre
SP Bob Gibson
closer Bruce Sutter
Bench - Johnny Mize, Joe Medwick, Lou Brock, Ted Simmons, Mark McGwire, Willie McGee, Frankie Frisch
Bullpen starters/middle relief - Dizzy Dean, Jesse Haines, Pete Alexander (Grover Cleveland), John Tudor, Mort Cooper
Bullpen closers - Todd Worrell, Lee Smith
I'd take Simmons over Torre at catcher. Torre had one great year with the Cardinals. Simmons had a decade of very good.
I know that an All-Busch team is being made. What are the thoughts on that. I think Pujols has to be the firstbasemen, but consider who the firstbasemen were McGwire, Hernandez, Cepada.
2B-Tommy Herr (All-Busch Team)
Gibby, I'd concur with DF about Simmons being the catcher although Ted wasn't too good on defense. Otherwise, I'd go along with your other picks, but I also think you have to mention Red Schoendienst, Curt Flood, Marty Marion and Steve Carlton. I know Lefty wasn't with us that long but he was pretty tough for a 5 year period.
Joe Torre never did a lot of catching for the Cardinals. When the Cardinals obtained him from the Braves before the 1969 season, Joe spent most of the year playing first base, backing up Tim McCarver behind the plate only on occasion.
McCarver was traded to Philadelphia in 1970, and with Richie Allen on the Cardinals, along with rookie Joe Hague (both primarily first sackers), Joe moved back behind the plate for about 90 games, while Ted Simmons was developing. As the season progressed, Simmons took over the job and Joe went back to the infield.....for good. Joe made the move to third base when Mike Shannon took ill in 1970. He won the MVP Award in 1971 as a third sacker.
Torre never caught another major league game after 1970.
I'm wondering, but if Andy Van Slyke was not traded, would he have a place on this list? The outfield would be tough to crack, but perhaps the bench or the All- Busch team?
Can a mod who is knowledgabke about Cardimnals history add a poll to this thread?
I want the results for the All-Time position by position battle. I have a thread about it in the history forum if you're interested.
there are many copies
c simmons
1b pujols
2b hornsby
3b boyer
ss ozzie
of musial
terry moore
lou brock
bench
mcgwire
scott rolen
marty marion
jose oquendo
roger bresnahan
edmonds
curt flood
willie mcgee
starters
bob gibson
dizzy dean
pete alexander
bob forsch
john tudor
bullpen
bruce sutter
todd worrell
lee smith
dennis eckersley
throw in the cooper brothers for a long relief man and a bullpen catcher
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Chuck out McGwire* and that looks very good. If Carpenter win the CYA you hasve to consider putting him in somewhereOriginally Posted by hubkittel
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i almost left mcgwire off the team-figured musial could back up first and then i could add another bullpen arm. or i could put keith hernandez on the team as a late inning defensive replacement. as to carp, i'd let him have forsch's spot in the rotation if he won that second cy young-but right now i don't think he has enough time with the cardinals to merit a place on the all time team. i also felt kind of bad leaving julian javier off the team-oquendo took his spot (you never know when you're going to get into a 25 inning game and need a middle infielder to pitch).
Last edited by hubkittel; 09-26-2006 at 04:45 PM.
check out This Game of Games, my blog on the history of 19th century baseball in St. Louis
C- Simmons
1B- Pujols
2B- Hornsby
3B- Rolen
SS- Ozzie
LF- Musial
CF- Edmonds
RF- Slaughter
Bench
McGwire
Boyer
Brock
Mize
McGee
Rotation
Gibson
Alexander
Dizzy Dean
John Tudor
Chris Carpenter
Bullpen
Eckersley
Smith
Sutter
Worrell
If we only had that bullpen this year.
1B- tie between McGwire and Pujols
2B- Hornsby
SS- Smith
3B- Rolen
OF- Slaughter, Brock, and McGee
C- Simmons
Rotation-
Dizzy Dean
Grover Alexander
Steve Carlton
Bob Gibson
Kid Nichols
Bullpen
Dennis Eckersley
Bruce Sutter
Jason Isringhausen
Lee Smith
there are many copies
dude, if i can still read, i think you just left stan musial off your all time cardinal team.
check out This Game of Games, my blog on the history of 19th century baseball in St. Louis
whoops my baddude, if i can still read, i think you just left stan musial off your all time cardinal team.
1b-Pujols
2b-Hornsby
3b-K. Boyer
ss- O. Smith
of-Musial/Brock/Slaughter
C-Simmons
bench-Mize/Rolen/McGee/Edmonds/Torre/McGwire/Medwick/ Frisch
sp-Gibson, Dean, Alexander, Carlton, Carpenter
rp- Sutton, L. Smith, D. Eckersly, Izzy
Manager- Hertzog
unofficial Cardinals
Playing HardballUpdated 12-06-07
Congratulations Cardinals in 2006 World Series
Winners in 1926, 1931, 1934, 1942, 1944, 1946, 1964, 1967, 1982, & 2006
1B - Pujols
2B - Hornsby
SS - Smith
3B - Boyer
OF - Musial
OF - Medwick
OF - Brock
C - Simmons
Bench - Mize, Frisch, Schoendienst, Rolen, Slaughter, Renteria, McCarver, Edmonds
SP - Gibson
SP - Dean
SP - Haines
SP - M. Cooper
SP - Sherdel
SP - Brecheen
RP - L. McDaniel
RP - Sutter
RP - Brazle
Manager - Southworth
"(Ty) Cobb is a prick. But he sure can hit. God Almighty, that man can hit." - Babe Ruth
1. Lou Brock RF
2. Ozzie Smith SS
3. Albert Pujols 1B
4. Stan Musial LF
5. Rogers Hornsby 2B
6. Enos Slaughter CF
7. Ken Boyer 3B
8. Yadier Molina C - i think he will go down as the greatest catcher in cardinals history.
9 Pitcher/DH (Joe Medwick)
Pitching:
SP1 Bob Gibson
SP2 Dizzy Dean
SP3 Steve Carlton
SP4 Jesse Haines
SP5 Harry Brechean
RP Ryan Franklin
RP Russ Springer
CP Bruce Sutter
Springer and Franklin in 2007 had the best year then any relief pitchers in the cardinals history so how can you not have them on your team.
Bench:
C Ted Simmons
1B Johny Mize
2B Red Schoendienst
3B Scott Rolen
SS Marty Marion
OF/3B Pepper Martin
OF Jim Edmonds
OF Joe Medwick
OF Willie McGee
Util José Oquendo
there are many copies
Good lord, you just made me spit coffee all over my keyboard.
check out This Game of Games, my blog on the history of 19th century baseball in St. Louis
Sorry but that was a tough choice because when you really think about it the cardinals really havent had any good middle relief pitchers. They always had good starters and good closers but not really any good middle relief pitchers.
Those were the only 2 that i could think of that had a major impact.
1B Pujols - Mize
2B Hornsby - Fricsh
SS Smith - Marion
3B Boyer - Rolen
C Simmons - Molina
OF Musial - Edmonds
OF Medwick - Slaughter
OF Brock
SP Gibson
SP Dean
SP Cooper
SP Brecheen
SP Haines
SP Simmons
CP Sutter
CP Worrell
CP Isringhausen
CP L. Smith
I tried to omit HOf guys who played here for very short periods of time: Eck, Alexander, Nichols, Torre, etc. Carlton played here 7 seasons, but only had 2 really good seasons as a Cardinal.
1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006
1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004
1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009
The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
I wouldn't change a thing with that roster, but since I don't think that any closing pitcher is anything other than a can't-hack-it starting pitcher, here's what my pitching staff would look like. I'm assuming tht we're talking about these players capabilities during the time they were with the Cards as well, otherwise Alexander would be the ace instead of number four.1B Pujols - Mize
2B Hornsby - Fricsh
SS Smith - Marion
3B Boyer - Rolen
C Simmons - Molina
OF Musial - Edmonds
OF Medwick - Slaughter
OF Brock
Bob Gibson
Dizzy Dean
Jesse Haines
Grover Alexander
Burleigh Grimes (How can you not opt for the spitball specialst?)
Chris Carpenter
Al Hrabosky
John Tudor
Steve Carlton
Jose Oquendo (He can also fill in at the regular fielding positions and act as third base coach on the side, haha)
Where are Brecheen and Cooper? Unlike Alexander and Carlton and Grimes, they actualy played a long time in St. Louis, and had their prime seasons here.
Why is Hrabowsky a better reliever than Sutter?
1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006
1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004
1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009
The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
Holy Thread Resurrection Batman!!!
Batman and R.jpg
Giants fans shouted encouragement, Dodgers fans prayed. Branca kicked and fired, Thomson hit it hard. Hodges shouted as Pafko stood helpless..... And Sister Helen Rita caught the ball.
C: Ted Simmons
1B: Jim Bottomley
2B: Red Schoendienst
3B: Ken Boyer
SS: Ozzie Smith
LF: Lou Brock
CF: Stan Musial
RF: Enos Slaughter
BN: Curt Flood (OF)
BN: Willie McGee (OF)
BN: Rogers Hornsby (2B/SS/3B)
BN: Joe Medwick (OF)
BN: Albert Pujols (1B)
BN: Johnny Mize (1B)
BN: Vince Coleman (PR)
SP: Bob Gibson
SP: Jesse Haines
SP: Bob Forsch
SP: Bill Sherdel
SP: Dizzy Dean
RP: Jason Isringhausen
RP: Lee Smith
RP: Todd Worrell
RP: Bruce Sutter
RP: Dennis Eckersley
there are many copies
And what about Bob Forsch? Third in career wins, third in innings pitched, fourth in games pitched, third in K's, second in games started, and ninth in shutouts. Forsch was a two time silver slugger winner (the guy could flat hit) and finished in the top ten in wins three times, winning percentage four times, WHIP three times, shut outs four times. He also had a twenty win season, two no-hitters, and was an important contributor to three pennant winners and one world series champion.
We should cut Haines a little slack however because he did have Tudor on his list (who I've been pimping around here for awhile).
check out This Game of Games, my blog on the history of 19th century baseball in St. Louis
there are many copies
That's what I'm talking about-a little love for Forschie!
But it's still not enough to let you slide on starting Bottomley ahead of Pujols/Mize or Red ahead of Hornsby.
check out This Game of Games, my blog on the history of 19th century baseball in St. Louis
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