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Thread: DM Classic IV Keeper League - General Discussion

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    DM Classic IV Keeper League - General Discussion

    --Our current owners and Divisional alignment

    Branch Rickey League
    William Hulbert Division
    JW Skip Jacks (J W) - Memorial Stadium
    Lew's Legends (catcher24) - Shea Stadium (free move used)
    Buppers Badgers (Buppers) - Anahiem Stadium
    Windy City Thunder (Windy City Fan) - Oakland Collesium



    Henry Chadwick Division
    Emerald City Corsairs (leecemark) - KIngdome
    Las Vegas Gamblers (rmadichick) - Riverfront Stadium
    Milwaukee Iron (Jaybird) - County Stadium, Milwaukee
    San Diego Spikes (mwiggins) - San Diego Stadium




    Jackie Robinson League
    Ban Johnson Division
    Leecemark Knights (Leecemark) - Tiger Stadium
    Sockeye Angels (Sockeye) - Astrodome
    EB's Gold Sox (Eric Bedard) - Veterans Stadium (free move used)
    Pheonix Dust Bunnies (dust bunnies) - Commiskey Park (free move used)

    Alexander Cartwright Division
    Mac's Hard Cider (mac195 on LOA/Jaybird overseeing) - Yankee Stadium
    Jersey Blues (Kardinal) - Busch Stadium
    Portland Beavers (rmadchick) - Wrigley Field
    CC Lumberjacks (catcher24) - Royals Stadium
    Last edited by leecemark; 04-29-2011 at 05:55 AM. Reason: update for 1972

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    The basic rules

    --Please note that these were the original rules for the league start up.. They remain here only for historical perspective. For current rules please refer to the separate Rules Thread.


    1. There will be 12 teams, in a 3 division league.

    2. 9 of the teams (3 per division) will be run by active owners and 3 (1 per division) will be a computer run team designed to keep active owners out of the cellar and normalize the stats (it was very hard to excell in our early leagues due to the heavy concentration of talent). The 3 100 game losers from 1961, the Phillies, A's and Senators, would fill this role for the fitst few seasons .

    3. The 9 owned teams would be stocked from a draft of the remaining 15 teams. Every player who appeared in 1961, excepting those who ended the season with one of the dorrmats, is eligible for the draft. Any player who debuted prior to 1961, but did not play in that season (but reappeared later) is also eligible. There is a minimum playing time rule though. Players with less than 50 PA or BF will be eligible only as replacements for a player at their position who goes on the DL. Players with less than 100 will be eligible as injury replacements and also as September call ups. This will apply to each season going forward.

    4. There would be a 100 million dollar salary cap for the duration of the project. For 1961 salaries would be assigned by draft position, as follows;
    Rounds 1-10: 12, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 and 2 miillion
    Rounds 11-15: 1 million
    Rounds 16-20: 750K
    Rounds 21-25: 500K
    Rounds 26-40: 250K
    Total: 81 million

    5. Raises would be 250K for all players who appear for the major league team. There will be a special exemption for each team first pick, who will receive the same 12 million dollar salary as long as they remainwith their original club. Players who spend the entire season in the minors (zero PA or BF) will not be due a raise.

    6. Once the draft is complete, each owner would pick their 25 man active roster and submit lineups, depth chart, rotation, bullpen roles and managerial profile. Most days during the season a full series will be played. Game results and injuries are reported after each series. Normally those results are accompanied by either team pitching reports, team batting reports, league batting leaders or league pitching leaders.

    7. Free Agency would commence with the 1962 season when each team would have one player file, based on the standings. The team with the best record would lose their highest paid player, excluding the protected first ever draft pick, the next best team would lose their 2nd best, etc. Any player not offered a 250K raise would also be eligible for free agency. This system would be in place for the first 6 years. After that, players would be eligible for free agency 6 season after their draft year (i.e. the rookie class of 62 would be the FA class of 68).
    7a. Beginning with the 1964 draft players will start their 6 year clock after; a) the first year they appear for the big league club or b) the first year they got 100 AB, 50 Ip or appeared in 20 games in real life.
    7.b. Players drafted from the rookie pool will get an "arbitration bump" after their third season (3rd qualifying season for players drafted 1964 and later). They will recieve a one time doubling of their previous years salary.

    8. Players debuting in 1962 (and each subsequent year) would be drafted in inverse order of the standings. The first 3 players drafted would be 1 million dollars, the next 3 750K, the next 3 500K and anyone drafted after the first round would be signed at the 250K minimum wage.

    9. Players signed as free agents are eligible for multi-year contracts. Those signed for 8 million or more must be given 3-5 year deals (owner option). 5-7.75 mil players would get 2-4 years and player less than 5 million 1-3 years. These players would be free agents again at the end of these deals.
    9a. If a player in the midst of a multi-year deal is a teams forced free agent they would be considered to have demanded a trade rather than become a free agent. They would be a holdout and ineligible to play until a deal was made. If a deal is not made prior to the start of the free agent auctions that player will be place on waivers and teams will have an opportunity to assume the contract in inverse order of the previous seasons record. If no team wishes to assume the contract then the player will be retained by their original team.

    10. The doormats will serve through the 1963 season. They will be replaced by expansion teams in 1964. There will be an expansion draft with each original team protecting 25 of their 40 players. The remaining players from the 1961 doormats wil also be released into the expansion pool. Each expansion owner will be required to draft a minimum of 5 players from the doormat rosters, with salaries of 10M for the first, 4 for the 2nd, 3 for the 3rd, 2 for 4th and 1 for the 5th doormat player they draft. Any additional doormat players drafted will be valued at 500K. Any undrafted doormat players will be added to the secondary free agent market.
    10.a Each expansion team will draft 30 total players from the pool (with each existing team losing a maximum of 9 players - keeping them at at least 30 as well). The remaining players will be acquired via the rookie draft, free agent market and/or trades. The expansion owners will be limited to an 81M budget in 1964, 90M in 1965 and will join the rest of the league at 100M from 1966 forward. Exapansion owners will have the option of designating their first rookie pick in either 1964 or 1965 as a franchise player at a lifetime 12M contract.
    10.b. Owners will have the following options based on the order they are granted expansion teams; a) first pick in the rookie draft (third in the expansion), b) first in expansion (third in rookie) or c) first pick of which division they will be in (and 2nd pick in both drafts).

    11. At the conclusion of each season there will be a three week dormant period. No player movement will be allowed during this time. After 3 weeks an offseason thread will start. Everyone will need to submit their list of non-tendered players within a week of the startup. Anyone not listed or owners not getting a list in will be assumed to receive the standard raise if eligible. If there is a decision to be made on the forced free agent that must also be done in the first week (or the Commisioner will make the decision). Trades may also be made/posted at any time after this thread is up.
    --The second phase of the offseason will be the rookie draft (between 1963-4 the expansion draft would be next). That will be followed by the premium/forced free agent auction and finally the secondary/non-tender free agent auction. Lastly teams under 40 men can sign any minimum wage free agents undrafted/signed. At no time during the process may a team exceed their 100 million dollar budget. At the conclusion of the process every team must have 40 players under contract. Teams unable to come up with 40 players will have 250K in salary assigned to each vacant roster spot.

    12. An owner gets one free stadium move over the life of their franchise. Moves may also be made with a change of ownership or if your stadium went inactive in real life.
    Last edited by leecemark; 09-27-2008 at 06:10 AM.

  3. #3
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    So players taken from '62 on would all become free agents after 6 years. Would players chosen from '61 be safe (unless they are taken due to a team's place in the standings)?

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    --Yeh, I wouldn't want half of a team's roster turning over in one season. The 1961 guys belong to the team that drafts them until they don't want them anymore (excepting the one player per year FA filing system).

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    The team that finishes with the best record will lose their #1 starter. If that means #1 in the rotation then owners could protect their best pitcher by putting him at #2. Probably we should specify that the top team will lose the first pitcher it selected in the draft, regardless of where he is used in the rotation or even if he is a bulpen pitcher.

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    --The #1 starter will be the best starter in terms of league performance. I think it will be fairly obvious in most cases, or if two guys are close enough that it isn't than either will do. Unless someone is so confident of having the best record from the outset that they hold back their best pitcher I don't think this is a problem we need to worry about. If someone does end up with that good of a team than the other owners should hang their heads in shame anyway.

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    We'll need to choose stadiums. I assume we'll have a choice of all the parks that were used in '61 which aren't being used by the doormats. Why don't we draft for home parks first and then start the player draft in reverse order. If you could post the DM park ratings it would be helpful.

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    --DM doesn't have any kind of park ranking score. You should expect each park to play similar to how it did in 1961. Yes, you can pick any 1961 park other than those being used by the doormats. You can take that team name as well, if you wish. Or you can make up your own name, since there will be no real team identity (unless you plan to draft a bunch of players from a favorite team).
    --The choice of park shouldn't be enough of an advantage to make reversing the order of selection for the player draft a fair trade off. Once we have all nine owners lined up, I'll draw names from a hat for the draft order. I'll take Tiger Stadium, as I have in the previous seasons. Unlike the previous seasons, however, I won't be the Tigers. My team will be the Leecemark Knights.

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    The choice of park shouldn't be enough of an advantage to make reversing the order of selection for the player draft a fair trade off.
    What I'm saying is, after you draw the names out of the hat for the draft, have a preliminary round to choose parks, with the number 9 owner picking first. The priviledge of having first preference for park would be some small compensation for the people who are chosen to pick low in the draft order, and miss out on the chance to get guys like Mays and Aaron. Under the plan as you have stated, there is no compensation at all. Choosing the right park matters, I think. It is one element of the strategy involved in making a team.

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    On the other hand, if most people are OK with just choosing parks first come first serve, that's fine with me. I choose Yankee Stadium.

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    --I'm not sure what draft position I'd like best myself. I think getting the 9th and 10th best player might be a better deal in this pool than 1st and 17th. I'm not sure I'd want to be on either end though, since waiting 16 picks between ops to claim two is nerve wracking and makes each choice a little tougher. You know your 2nd choice isn't going to be availble when the draft swings back like it might if you were in the middle somewhere. The other thing is some of the best players in 1961 are going to fall off quickly and some of the best players of the 60s weren't that good yet in 1961. How to balance between winning this season and preparing for the future will be a complicating factor. Should be interesting.

  12. #12
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    Mark,

    Does the park we select determine which league we're going to be in? Like Mac chose Yankee Stadium, so does that mean he's in the AL?

    Anyway, I think I'm going to choose Crosley Field and call my team the Cincinnati Reds just because I can't think of a better name.

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    ...just checking in. i'll let you know if i have any questions.

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    --This is going to be a one league set up, so your park won't factor into that. You'll want to pick a park that suits the style you like and draft to fit your park. There is no particilar advantage or disadvantage to one park over another for the playerless teams we are starting out with though.

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    New owners

    --I have received enough inquiries that we will have our two openings filled in the next 24 hours. HWR, hopefully I've given you enough info for you to decide if you want in or not. If you could let me know today your spot is assured. For those who have expressed interest via PM, I'll make a decision tonight or tomorrow morning. If you have any additional questions, please ask them now.

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    Draft info

    --Every player who appeared in a game in 1961 will be eligible for the draft. Players who debuted before 1961, but who did not play this season for whatever reason, will also be eligible. Subsequent years will feature only players who made their first appearance in the new season.
    --The function which causes players to lose effectiveness as they go past 110% of real life usage doesn't seem to work well for draft leagues. Therefore, there will be some minimum playing time requirements built into this league. Players with less than 100 PA or BF in 1961 (or subsequent seasons) will be eligible for the 25 man roster ONLY in the event of a player at their position going on the DL or as a September call up. Players with less than 50 will be eligible only to cover a DL situation. The 110% decline rate will still be turned on, so if you hope to get everyday play out of a guy who had 200 PA or 50 IP you may well collapse down the strech.

  17. #17
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    Players with less than 100 PA or BF in 1961 (or subsequent seasons) will be eligible for the 25 man roster ONLY in the event of a player at their position going on the DL or as a September call up. Players with less than 50 will be eligible only to cover a DL situation.
    Oh well, there goes my low PA ringer strategy. It's a good idea though... will make the league more realistic.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by leecemark
    --I'm not sure what draft position I'd like best myself. I think getting the 9th and 10th best player might be a better deal in this pool than 1st and 17th. I'm not sure I'd want to be on either end though, since waiting 16 picks between ops to claim two is nerve wracking and makes each choice a little tougher. You know your 2nd choice isn't going to be availble when the draft swings back like it might if you were in the middle somewhere. The other thing is some of the best players in 1961 are going to fall off quickly and some of the best players of the 60s weren't that good yet in 1961. How to balance between winning this season and preparing for the future will be a complicating factor. Should be interesting.
    Would you take Yaz - mediocre '61, but all his good years ahead, or Mantle - incredible '61, but then past his prime?

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    --Its a long wait to Yaz being great. I don't think that would be viable in the first round or even 2nd for me. Mantle is the best player in the game in 1961 (unless his defensive rating is really bad) and a great player for several more years, if injury prone. I would take The Mick in the first round, but probably not with the first pick.

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    It would be pretty easy to build a winner around Mantle '61. But there are several guys I'd certainly take ahead of him based on post '61 value... not sure if there are 9 such players.

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    Mac mentioned Yaz, Bob Gibson is another one who really started in 1961 and will have almost all of his value after. He was a very solid pitcher in '61, and is great the next year. I'd say Gibson is a certain first rounder for me.

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    Looks like only Tiger and Yankee Stadiums are gone, right?

    I don't care, I'll go homer once more. Give me:


  23. #23
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    --These are my initial proposal for getting this league underway. Suggestions for improvements on the format are welcome.

    1. There will be 12 teams, in a 3 division league.
    2. 9 of the teams (3 per division) will be run by active owners and 3 (1 per division) will be a computer run team designed to keep active owners out of the cellar and normalize the stats (it was very hard to excell in our early leagues due to the heavy concentration of talent). The 3 100 game losers from 1961, the Phillies, A's and Senators, would fill this role for the fitst few seasons .
    3. The 9 owned teams would be stocked from a draft of the remaining 15 teams.
    Sounds great, a copy from DMIII. There were 18 teams in 1961 so cutting down to 12 gives us more powerful teams without going overboard. I would however like to leave the option open for expansion, if more owners become interested.

    4. There would be a 100 million dollar salary cap for the duration of the project. For 1961 salaries would be assigned by draft position, as follows;
    Rounds 1-10: 12, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 and 2 miillion
    Rounds 11-15: 1 million
    Rounds 16-20: 750K
    Rounds 21-25: 500K
    Rounds 26-40: 250K
    Total: 81 million
    I like it. Gives us wiggle room to start with... much like any team just starting out. Meanwhile certain players are making the bulk of the $$$. Teams will invariably get in cap trouble later (provided we dont collude ).

    5. Free Agency would commence with the 1962 season when each team would have one player file, based a the standings (team with best record would lose their #1 SP, next their C and so on). Any player not offered a 250K raise would also be eligible for free agency. This system would be in place for the first 6 years. After that, players would be eligible for free agency after their 6th season (i.e. the rookie class of 62 would be the FA class of 68).
    Don't really agree with the first part (until actual FA begins), mainly because of the draft (see #6). What makes more sense to me, and simulates real life a bit more, is that the top teams would have to raise their salaries more. Or perhaps just the top players would demand huge deals. The second part I agree with for the most part--more later.

    If there was a way we could simulate the increase in pay these players would want based on stats and wins (win shares?), we could work with this. I'll post thoughts later on the subject.

    This will likely be the toughest part of all this but I think it'll be ironed out.

    6. Players debuting in 1962 (and each subsequent year) would be drafted in inverse order of the standings. The first 3 players drafted would be 1 million dollars, the next 3 750K, the next 3 500K and anyone drafted after the first round would be signed at the 250K minimum wage.
    We're doing this off of their first major league season, right? OK--I agree completely except I'd rather do 3-year contracts and start our first true FA period in 65... even though it goes against history a bit.

    7. Once the draft is complete, each owner would pick their 25 man active roster and submit lineups, depth chart, ration, bullpen roles and managerial profile. Most days during the season a full series will be played. Game results and injuries are reported after each series. Normally those results are accompanied by either team pitching reports, team batting reports, league batting leaders or league pitching leaders.
    ...keeping up the quality reports. That's why you rule at this Mark.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by J W
    Don't really agree with the first part (until actual FA begins), mainly because of the draft (see #6). What makes more sense to me, and simulates real life a bit more, is that the top teams would have to raise their salaries more. Or perhaps just the top players would demand huge deals. The second part I agree with for the most part--more later.
    What about factoring awards into the salaries? An extra $100k for each All-Star selection and GG and an extra $250k for each MVP and CY in addition to the initial $250k raise?

  25. #25
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    hey guys, i hate to have to do this. i am very excited about the potential of this league, but my work schedule is getting to be too much of a grind. we're just getting into the guts of the hockey season, and i still have over five months to go. i'm afraid that i am not going to have enough time to be able to contribute to this league in the same way that i did in DMIII. i'm afraid i'll turn into another chancellor, dudecar, or wasp. that's not fair to you guys, and more importantly, i wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning this thing. so with regret, i'm pulling myself out of the league. good luck to everyone. thanks again mark for organizing all of this. it was a lot of fun. PM me if you have any openings in future seasons. if work has settled down, i'll definitely be interested in rejoining.

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