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Thread: DM Classic IV Keeper League - General Discussion

  1. #61
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    --I got the 1961 CD in today's mail. Defensive ratings for all posiitons (for players with at least 100 PA) will be up this weekend. The defense scale is Excellent (EX), Very Good (VG), Average (AV), Fair (FR) and Poor (PR). It is based strictly on the numbers, with no reputation bonus (Roberto Clemente is AV in 1961, although VG for his career profile in the All Time Greats program). It will vary from season to season. The first grade is for range. Outfielders and catchers will also have a throwing rating on the same scale (example: Clemente AV/EX). Error rate is based on fieldign percentage, is on a numerical scale rather than a grade. This scale varies by positon and isn't as easily accessed as the range/arm numbers. If you want to see who is sure handed or error prone, you'll have to look up fielding percentages elsewhere. These defensive ratings are the only scouting reports that I'll providing.
    --We still need one owner to get the draft underway. I'd like to kick it off a week from today and will draft a second team myself (for computer management) if we don't have someone ready to go. I'd like to get the first few rounds completed the first night, so if Friday isn't good for anyone please let me know. After the first few rounds I don't mind if the draft slows down some. I propose a 12 hour window for each owner to pick (hopefully far less for most) at which time the next guy would go and the owner skipped would just have to backfill when they log back in. That window is only for people who aren't online though. If you log into BBF when you're on the clock and leave without picking we would also go onto the next owner's turn. As with everthing else, suggestions to improve the draft process are welcome.

  2. #62
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    I'm happy that player salaries will be determined by the market, and not predetermined by the game software based on some formula. I think that adds an element of skill, and makes the game more fun.

  3. #63
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    Mac - Actually, it does take the market into serious consideration. It compares his performance to others at the postion in the league and uses that info to assign the salary. Also, once the player becomes a FA, he becomes available to every other team and the bidding is on. I'm in my fourth year of a solo league, and have had to dump some of my players to the FA market in order to keep others - and many have come back to haunt me!

    Anyway, I agree with JW that I would like to see contracts of some sort. Perhaps 5 each of 2,3,4,5,6 year contracts? That would be 25 total, and would cover all the active ML players. You decide who is worth signing for 6 years. Once the contract is up, the player becomes a FA. Minor leaguers wouldn't be affected until they are promoted. Perhaps they could automatically be assigned a 5 year contract upon promotion. That would be long enough for the original drafting team to get some worth from the player before he became eligible for free agency. Suggestions?
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  4. #64
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    The 12 hour window seems more than reasonable. Seems like an owner should be able to log in sometime during that long a period quick enough to post their choice.
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  5. #65
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    --I've got 2 issues with locking players up to contracts rather than letting owners make decisons on when their cost/value balance no longer fits the team. First of all, if we lock all our MLB roster up to 2-6 year contracts there will be no free agents on the market for our 2nd season. I don't think running basically the same teams out for the 1962 season will be that interesting.
    --Second is actually the opposite end of the spectrum. I'd like to be able to plan for the future when building my original team. There should be some benefit to drafting a young player who will be a star for you down the road and a trade off between choicing that type of player and one who is going to give you a couple big years and then we finished. The contract system would lead to complete turnover in 6 years.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by catcher24
    Mac - Actually, it does take the market into serious consideration. It compares his performance to others at the postion in the league and uses that info to assign the salary.
    By market value, I mean whatever someone is willing to pay. So if someone really, really likes Rocky Colavito, for whatever reason, and is willing to pay $12 million a year for him, then that is his market price. Others who are smart enough not to pay so much for him gain a relative advantage. If prices are determined by merit, then that aspect of strategy is lost.


    Like Mark said, I think

    letting owners make decisons on when their cost/value balance no longer fits the team...
    ... would be more fun than assigning long term contracts. I'd like to have the freedom to dump a player at any time, or keep him until the end of his career if I choose. Automatic yearly salary increases would force a certain number of players to be given up to free agency, but owners would be able to make a strategic decision on who to give up and when. Actually, I don't think any other mechanism to force free agents onto the market is necessary.

  7. #67
    charlesblalack@yahoo.com Guest
    If there's any open spots...
    I'll be the Blalack Dollar Signs, playing in Fenway Park

  8. #68
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    --Welcome Charles. That fills our ownership roster. A few things to iron out on the rules, but we should be able to begin drafting next Friday unless that proves to be a bad time for some owners.
    --The division alignments
    West
    Mac's Hard Cider (Mac195) - Yankee Stadium
    538280 Cannons - Crosley Field
    Edgar's Raptors (EdgartoHallofFame) - County Stadium
    Kansas City Athletics (computer managed doormat)

    Central
    Leecemark Knights - Tiger Stadium
    Dudecar00 Gamblers - Wrigley Field (LA)
    Blalack Dollar Signs (charlesblalack@yahoo.com)- Fenway Park
    Philadelphia Phillies (CM doormats)

    East
    JW Skipjacks - Memorial Stadium
    Lew's Legends (Catcher24) - Forbes Field
    Nails Quakers - Connie Mack Stadium
    Washington Senators (CM doormats)
    Last edited by leecemark; 11-18-2005 at 10:16 PM.

  9. #69
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    Rules in question

    1) Will we use performance boosters or just the 250K raise for MLB players?
    2) Will we allow your first pick to be locked in at 12m for as long as you want him?
    3) Wlll we allow players to be signed for x number of years or go with the one FA per team for the first 6 years and draft class thereafter?
    4) If we are going with the one forced FA per team will it be by defensive position or by payroll positon.
    --I'd like every owner to cast their vote on the above issues by Monday if possible. If I have overlooked or misstated any of the open issues please feel free to open further discussion on them this weekend. I would really like to have everything firmed up by Monday. I'll draw for draft position
    once the rules questions are settled (some votes, especially #2, could be influenced by draft positon).

  10. #70
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    My vote

    1) No performance boosters. 250K per year for any player who appears for the MLB squad and none for minor leaguers.
    2) Yes to locking in your first pick. The only exception would be if that player loses his spot as your highest paid player and becomes liable to the 1 FA rule during the first 6 seasons (if that is approved).
    3) No contracts for 1961 draftees. One FA per team (thru 1967) to be designated with the others yours as long as you want to keep paying them.
    4) One free agent per team to be assigned by payroll slot. Best record loses (or at least as file for free agency) their 2nd highest paid player, next best their 3rd and so on down to the worst record losing their 10th highest paid.

  11. #71
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    Catcher Defensive Report

    Elston Howard EX/VG
    Johnny Blanchard FR/FR
    Dick Brown AV/EX
    Gus Triandos VG/VG
    Sherm Lollar FR/AV
    Cam Carreon EX/FR
    Johnny Romano AV/AV
    Jim Pagliani FR/VG
    Russ Nixon FR/FR
    Earl Batttey VG/VG
    Hal Naragon AV/PR
    Earl Averill AV/FR
    Del Rice AV/FR
    Eddie Sadowski EX/FR
    Jerry Zimmerman AV/EX
    Johnny Edwards AV/VG
    Johnny Roseboro VG/EX
    Norm Sherry VG/FR
    Ed Baily VG/VG
    Joe Torre AV/VG
    Carl Sawatski FR/FR
    Hal Smith (stL) VG/EX
    Hal Smith (pitt) AV/FR
    Smokey Burgess AV/FR
    Dick Bertell AV/AV
    Sam Taylor AV/FR
    Mike Roarke AV/EX

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by leecemark
    1) No performance boosters. 250K per year for any player who appears for the MLB squad and none for minor leaguers.
    2) Yes to locking in your first pick. The only exception would be if that player loses his spot as your highest paid player and becomes liable to the 1 FA rule during the first 6 seasons (if that is approved).
    3) No contracts for 1961 draftees. One FA per team (thru 1967) to be designated with the others yours as long as you want to keep paying them.
    4) One free agent per team to be assigned by payroll slot. Best record loses (or at least as file for free agency) their 2nd highest paid player, next best their 3rd and so on down to the worst record losing their 10th highest paid.
    This is OK with me. And I can draft on Friday (US Time), although I will be busy from 6:00-7:00, and 9:00-11:00PM PST. Otherwise, any time after 3:00PM PST is fine.

  13. #73
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    Posted by Mark:
    --I've got 2 issues with locking players up to contracts rather than letting owners make decisons on when their cost/value balance no longer fits the team. First of all, if we lock all our MLB roster up to 2-6 year contracts there will be no free agents on the market for our 2nd season. I don't think running basically the same teams out for the 1962 season will be that interesting.
    --Second is actually the opposite end of the spectrum. I'd like to be able to plan for the future when building my original team. There should be some benefit to drafting a young player who will be a star for you down the road and a trade off between choicing that type of player and one who is going to give you a couple big years and then we finished. The contract system would lead to complete turnover in 6 years.
    Now I'm a little confused. Isn't the currently proposed rule that anyone on the roster is going to become a free agent after six years, or did that get dropped? Or did I misunderstand that? In that scenario, ALL players have a six year contract, then become free game after the six are up. Under my proposal, free agents will come onto the market at intervals, as contracts expire. If you want to lock up the young stud, give him a six year contract. Also, to eliminate the problem of the same teams for 1962, only allow a certain number of players to be under contract, or have 7 or 8 one year contracts. Anyway, I'll not belabor the point, as it appears most are opposed to this anyway. One last comment, though - beginning in the mid-70's, not having contracts will in no way reflect reality. Before Messersmith/McNally, a team COULD keep a player as long as he wants; after that, no way - he had a contract or after five years he filed for free agency. Perhaps that is something that should be addressed as we approach that era (1975?).

    Posted by Mac:
    By market value, I mean whatever someone is willing to pay. So if someone really, really likes Rocky Colavito, for whatever reason, and is willing to pay $12 million a year for him, then that is his market price. Others who are smart enough not to pay so much for him gain a relative advantage. If prices are determined by merit, then that aspect of strategy is lost.
    Same thing it OOTP, Mac. When a player becomes a FA, EVERY team can enter any amount they wish to offer him. And the AI is clever enough to play one team against the other, so the bidding on some players gets crazy. Again, not belaboring the point because we are using DM; just wanted to clarify that OOTP has the same capability, but IMHO a better financial engine.
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  14. #74
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    Mark - Will there be any way to access any of the players from the computer doormat teams? There are a couple of players I'm quite interested in. If not, I'll forget about them, but one in particular would be fairly high on my draft list (with the baseball acumen possessed by the members of this league, I'm sure anyone who peruses the doormats' rosters will know who I'm looking at).
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  15. #75
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    Votes on the issues in dispute

    My vote on the issues requested:
    1. I would prefer the 250K per season increase. In reality, a current player might have a performance clause built into their contract, but in the early 60's this was pretty unusual. If you won the triple crown, you got your negotiated raise per your contract.
    2. Agree with this.
    3. I think you know where I'm at on this - contracts for X number of years (hey, call me Don Quixote).
    4. I vote against one forced FA per team, but if that rule applies, I would go by salary. I think that is more fair. If you went by position, the 9th place team could lose their highest paid player, without freeing up equivalent dollars to sign a comparable replacement. If you go by salary, the ninth place team will lose their ninth highest paid player - bad enough, but at least the dollars will be available for a comparable replacement player.
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mac195
    This is OK with me. And I can draft on Friday (US Time), although I will be busy from 6:00-7:00, and 9:00-11:00PM PST. Otherwise, any time after 3:00PM PST is fine.
    I am going to have to work on Friday, so I'm out until around 6 pm EST. I can attempt to be online by that time as it correlates to 3 pm PST. I can't guarantee anything late night, so 6-9 EST is best for me, but if need be I can make myself free for the rest.

  17. #77
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    --Lew, beginning with 1962 draftees players would be free agents after 6 seasons. That does not apply to 1961 draftees. Those players are yours as long as you want/can afford them, unless we go with forced free agency in the early seasons. That is really the whole point of the one forced per team from thsi class. With everybody starting 19 million under the cap there will be no hard decisons to make on players the first couple off seasons without an artificial push inserted.
    --I am not entirely opposed to contracts. I endorse them for any free agents signed, just not drafted players. The contract year proposal for FAs was; 8m+ players 3-5 years (owner choice), 5m-7.75 2-4 years, less than 5m 1-3. So you would have a player or several per season signed to multi-year deals (with locked in salaries) begining in 1962.

  18. #78
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    --How does 7 EST (4 PST) sound to everyone. I'd be happy if we could just get 3 rounds in to kick this off (although more would be great) and then keep going at the more leisurely pace through the weekend and following week. I think Edgar and I are the only PST owners and I'll be off early that afternoon.

  19. #79
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    Firstbase defensive ratings

    Moose Skowron AV
    Norm Cash VG
    Jim Gentile VG
    Roy Sievers FR
    JC Martin AV, 3B VG
    Vic Power EX, 2B VG
    Pete Runnells FR, 2/3B FR
    Vic Wertz AV
    Harmon Killebrew FR, 3B FR, LF-PR
    Steve Bilko AV
    Ted Kluzewski FR
    Gordy Coleman VG
    Nork Larker FR
    Ron Fairly FR, OF FR
    Willie McCovey AV
    Orlando Cepeda FR, L/RF FR
    Joe Adcock VG
    Dick Stuart PR
    Ed Bouchee AV
    Andre Rodgers FR, SS AV
    Don Mincher AV

  20. #80
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    7pm EST Friday is fine for me. I'll be on my second Saturday morning cup of coffee by then.

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