Page 4 of 84 FirstFirst ... 234561454 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 2078

Thread: Cuban Players Defectors

  1. #76
    Fermin Lafita -- I know you're involved with Pena and I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just telling you how baseball scouts think. Last year, there were a bunch of 20-something Cubans in the draft and only one of them -- Yunel Escobar -- was drafted in the first 10 rounds. About 8 others either signed for $5,000 late in the draft or didn't get drafted at all.

    If there were 50 scouts at his first game 10 days ago and he still didn't get listed in the Baseball America lists, then something is going on. Either the scouts didn't think he'd be drafted in the first 3-4 rounds, or they think he's older than he is. Even when Cubans are telling the truth, a lot of scouts assume the player is even 2-3-4 years older. That's just the way it is, and you can blame Joe Cubas and a few other agents for that.

    As for Pena's age vs. the age of his competition, that will definitely be a factor. That's just reality. Pena is almost 21 and he was basically a professional baseball player in Cuba for the last few years, while the others in his league are 17 to 19 and were sitting in high school 6 months ago.

    I hope Pena does well. I have no reason to root against him. I'm just giving my opinion here.
    Last edited by Agente Libre; 02-04-2006 at 10:59 AM.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by jon7jmets

    I guess he is trying to put some number in the minor and try to sign a better contract then. He certainly has no place with the Mets.

  3. #78
    The Mets will hold his rights for 6 years, so this was a very strange move. The Marlins were reportedly interested but probably offered a smaller signing bonus. Abreu should have still signed with Florida. He has no chance in N.Y. unless people get hurt.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Libre
    The Mets will hold his rights for 6 years, so this was a very strange move. The Marlins were reportedly interested but probably offered a smaller signing bonus. Abreu should have still signed with Florida. He has no chance in N.Y. unless people get hurt.

    What is the purpose in signing for one year then?

  5. #80
    Going back to Hassan Pena, Yunel Escobar did not attend college in USA and still was drafted in the second round in 2005. So if the scouts think you are good, somebody will select you. Escobar was almost 22 when he was selected.

    However, a lot of publicity does not hurt and it would had been better for Pena to be included among the top college prospects.

  6. #81
    Abreu did not sign for one year; he signed for 6 years. There is no such thing as a 1-year minor league contract for first-time professional players. Abreu, like a lot of other defectors, has a brand new agent (Bernie McGregor) and the agent probably does not know what he's talking about.

    As for Yunel Escobar, he got lucky. He basically lied about his age and his stats -- he told teams he was an all-star and that he was a .350 hitter in Cuba -- and the Braves apparently believed him. According to the Miami Herald, he also trained with a bunch of released players who were no good, so that made him look better when the scouts watched.

    The bottom line is, if Hassan Pena outperforms the league he's playing in, he should be okay in the draft. But it will take more than a 90-mph fastball for him to get drafted in the high rounds. He will need to look polished, mature, etc. Again, as a 21-year-old, he will be looked at differently than a 17 or 18-year-old. That's just the reality of scouting.

    After that, teams will know he's probably desperate to sign, so it's not automatic that he'll get a big bonus even if he's drafted high. Escobar got lucky and was drafted by a team with money. If Pena gets drafted by the Reds or Royals or Brewers, they might offer him $10,000 and say "take it or leave it."

  7. #82
    All of these problems with Cuban players would be greatly solved by granting them free agency like others.

    How in the world MLB invites Cuba to compete in the WBC and does not grant Cuban players free agent status?

    As a result, you have those players that go to another country wasting time to get legal documents. You also have players like Hassan Pena that should be playing in high A or AA trying to enter the 2006 draft risking an injury.


    I hope thing change for the better soon.

  8. #83
    yanks and mets after Bárbaro Cañizares

    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...l/13386734.htm
    Last edited by jon7jmets; 02-06-2006 at 05:51 PM.

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by jon7jmets
    yanks and mets after Bárbaro Cañizares

    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...l/13386734.htm

    I think he signed with the Braves already.

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Libre
    Fermin Lafita -- I know you're involved with Pena and I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just telling you how baseball scouts think. Last year, there were a bunch of 20-something Cubans in the draft and only one of them -- Yunel Escobar -- was drafted in the first 10 rounds. About 8 others either signed for $5,000 late in the draft or didn't get drafted at all.

    If there were 50 scouts at his first game 10 days ago and he still didn't get listed in the Baseball America lists, then something is going on. Either the scouts didn't think he'd be drafted in the first 3-4 rounds, or they think he's older than he is. Even when Cubans are telling the truth, a lot of scouts assume the player is even 2-3-4 years older. That's just the way it is, and you can blame Joe Cubas and a few other agents for that.

    As for Pena's age vs. the age of his competition, that will definitely be a factor. That's just reality. Pena is almost 21 and he was basically a professional baseball player in Cuba for the last few years, while the others in his league are 17 to 19 and were sitting in high school 6 months ago.

    I hope Pena does well. I have no reason to root against him. I'm just giving my opinion here.
    Yep Age is factor One of the Cubans got drafted, signed and plays with my brother for the Twins Org. i met him Personally and man he looks older then me and i'm 30... If i'm a scout why would i want to look at someone thats doesn't have room to develop in the future thats the reason why alot of them left late in the draft... Trust me scout see alot and Baseball America if they didn't list him they know why...

  11. #86
    You must be talking about Jose Cordero. I think he was telling scouts he was 21 or 22 last year. He's at least mid-20's and maybe even older.

  12. #87
    Yeah i didn't want to say names lolol but you said it...

  13. #88
    Who said that age doesnt matter?

    Our discussion dealt with whether, assuming Hassan is 20, which he is, it matters that he plays against 18 and 19 year olds. That is a different discussion than whether Cubans or other players have lied about their age in the past. I havent said that age doesnt matter. I simply said that if Hassan is really 20 then it doesnt matter if plays against 19 year olds. On his team there are a couple of kids that are under control that are older than Hassan. Do you think that their respective teams dont get excited whent those kids play well because they are 20?

  14. #89
    As for Pena's age vs. the age of his competition, that will definitely be a factor. That's just reality. Pena is almost 21 and he was basically a professional baseball player in Cuba for the last few years, while the others in his league are 17 to 19 and were sitting in high school 6 months ago.

    So what you are saying is that Scouts would preferred to see a Kid like Hassan pitched well in workouts in another country versus seeing him pitch against JUCO kids? Nobody knows how high the kid is going to get drafted, but he wont be penalized because he pitches well against JUCO kids, Now if he got shelled by JUCO kids, that would be a problem. You are saying that doing well against JUCO kids is worst for a Cuban than not playing at all. I guess we'll see soon, Bermudez the other kid that came with him isnt playing anywhere. We'll see if that is better strategy. As long as Hassan doesnt get hurt, he is better off playing at a community college if he wasnt going the FA rout than not playing at all. The FA rout was not really an option in his case for reasons personal to Hassan and his family

  15. #90

    Hassan Pena's not being noticed?

    I think it all comes down to timing with Hassan Pena. I think the kid has lots of potential and really good stuff, but the reason there isn't so much noise about him is that he hasn't been playing for a long time in the USA. If Hassan just pitched his second game in the Jupiter leage a couples of days ago is impossible the MLB scouts have enough data on his pitching style, pitch count, average velocity per pitch and per game, ERA and so forth.... What I really think is happening with Hassan is that the MLB scouts are being really careful not to prejudge, prequlify or label this young cuban pitcher. Once Hassan Pena has pitched 20 or so games then we may see MLB scouts writing their recomendations for MLB teams.
    With Penas' unique situation (One of the few Cuban baseball players able to show his stuff in USA soil and willing to participate on the draft) the MLB scouts have the luxury of taking their time, as opposed to makind decisons after only seen a cuban baseball player play once, they feel no hurry to make Hassan Pena a priority just yet.

  16. #91

    Now that we are talking about Scouts...........

    WBC presents big chance for Scouts

    A rare opportunity awaits international baseball scouts who travel many miles every year looking for players who could someday become Major League stars.
    The scouts can stay close to home and watch players from 16 countries compete against each other in the high-intensity forum that will be the inaugural World Baseball Classic.

    "We're always looking for talent," said longtime Major League scout Deacon Jones, "and this gives us a chance to see players from all over the world."

    The depth of international scouting varies with each big league organization, but check out a section of seats directly behind home plate at any given game during the three-week tournament and you're bound to see nicely dressed gentlemen holding radar guns and taking notes.

    "We're going to cover it, definitely," Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said. "What we take from it, I don't know, because it's hard to speak to something that never has been done before. It's hard to say until we see the level of competition, but if there are games being played, we're going to cover them."

    As the game continues to grow globally, the WBC could be the ideal stage for a young player from Italy, Korea, the Netherlands, Canada, Mexico or South Africa to draw interest from a Major League organization.

    A stellar performance in the WBC could change someone's life forever.

    "We have a vibrant scouting program in place, and have been involved in international scouting in what we think is a very aggressive manner for quite some time," Braves general manager John Schuerholz said. "We will have three scouts at all WBC locations.

    "You never know when a player catches your eye in a different way, or shows you something at this level of competition that you haven't seen before. A certain player might have a competitive edge or spirit that we haven't had a chance to see otherwise."

    "We don't know what to expect from countries that are not as developed in amateur programs, but this gives us a chance to see players that are underexposed on the international stage perform," Schuerholz said. "We already have a base of knowledge on a lot of the players, and this will enable us to supplement."

    The timing of the WBC is another bonus for organizations. With the event being played in conjunction with Spring Training, scouts are already in Arizona and Florida.

    "I think it's exciting for all of us," said Jones. "A lot of us will be on our normal Spring Training assignments, and to watch some [WBC] games would be a good change."

    Paul Ricciarini, the Astros' senior director of player personnel, said the reigning National League champions will have scouts who normally cover Spring Training reporting on every WBC team involved.

    "We're going to show up at the games and see what happens," he said. "If you never bet on a horse, you're never going to cash a ticket. You have something to gain and nothing to lose by covering the games."

    To make things even better, the Italian team will be managed by Matt Galante, a longtime Astros employee and current special assistant to Houston general manager Tim Purpura.

    Phillies scout Gordon Lakey said that his organization will put more of an emphasis on the teams with the fewest number of Major League players, a game plan most clubs are expected to follow.

    "Some teams, like the Dominican, Puerto Rico and the U.S., have proven Major League players on them, so we would put less emphasis on them," he said. "I think we are all anxious to see what the teams from the Far East not affiliated with organizations in the U.S. are like."

    Also, you can expect the Cuban team to draw considerable interest -- just in case any of those players eventually become available.
    "We're curious about the Cubans," said Roy Smith, the Dodgers' vice president of scouting and player development. "But the [WBC] as a whole is great. Anytime you can have an event that showcases this much talent, you have to take a look."

    Lakey agreed that having Cuba involved adds another dimension to the event.

    "That is going to be a very interesting situation," he said. "They have been kind of under wraps over there, and it will be interesting to see what they bring."

    Except for Cuba and the two teams that don't make it out of the first round in Tokyo, each of the WBC teams will share Spring Training facilities with Major League clubs from either March 3-6 or March 7-10, when the two Asian qualifiers join the Mariners and Padres at the Peoria Sports Complex.

    Major League clubs hosting WBC teams are: the Red Sox (Australia), Blue Jays (Canada), Astros (Dominican Republic), Tigers (Italy), Diamondbacks (Mexico in Tucson and USA in Phoenix), Braves (Netherlands), Nationals (Panama), Mets (Puerto Rico), Athletics (South Africa) and Phillies (Venezuela). The Major League teams will play at least one exhibition game against their WBC visitors.

    "You never know," Smith said. "Someone may hit a ball across the street, run like the wind or throw so hard that they stand out. It's always smart to have someone there to see it."

  17. #92
    Fermin -- I didn't say doing nothing would have been better for Pena than pitching at a JUCO. You either misread my post or are twisting my opinions around.

    I simply said that Pena'a age will be a factor; that the level of competition will be a factor; and that the fact Cubans are always assumed to be lying about their ages will be a factor.

    I think Pena would have been better off seeking free agency, or playing independent league baseball (better competition vs. wood bats), or holding a regular series of workouts. JUCO might turn out good for him, but there is a lot of risk involved. He's pitching against younger competition and against aluminum bats, which makes the scouts' jobs even tougher.

    All of that aside, even if Pena pitches awesome at JUCO and scouts love him, if the Royals or Reds or Twins draft him, he might get stuck with a $20,000 bonus. That's the biggest risk with the draft -- Pena might have to sign for little money or wait for the 2007 draft.

    As for Bermudez, he is 22 or 23 and didn't even have good numbers in Cuba, so pitching at a JUCO wasn't going to help him much anyway.

    Again, you seem to be taking this personally, which is why it's usually bad for family/friends to try to represent players. I've never said anything here to bash Pena; I'm simply giving an opinion.
    Last edited by Agente Libre; 02-08-2006 at 01:31 PM.

  18. #93
    TRRRRUUUUU lol

  19. #94
    All of that aside, even if Pena pitches awesome at JUCO and scouts love him, if the Royals or Reds or Twins draft him, he might get stuck with a $20,000 bonus. That's the biggest risk with the draft -- Pena might have to sign for little money or wait for the 2007 draft.

    .Again, you seem to be taking this personally, which is why it's usually bad for family/friends to try to represent players. I've never said anything here to bash Pena; I'm simply giving an opinion.[/QUOTE]


    Im not involved with Hassan as much as you think, other than being good friends with the guy who is advising him.

    Here are the bonuses paid by the Royals, Reds and Twins (the teams you mentioned above) to their top picks last year:
    Reds: 1. Jay Bruce 1.8 mil 2. Travis Wood 600,000 3. Zach Ward 420,000
    Royals 1. Alex Gordon 4.0 Mil 2. Jeff Bianchi 690,000 3, Chris Nichols 445,000
    Twins 1. Matt Garza 1,350,000 2. Henry Sanchez 900,000 3, Paul Kerry 650,000

    Anyway, it seems to me that if Hassan gets any of these types of numbers he is better off than having gone to another country, remember he was not an established Cuban star like Contreras, El duque or Alain soler.

    I know you have a different opinion and thats fine. I just believe that if a team would have paid big money for a player in the international market they would draft that same player in the top rounds of the draft if he was available

    I think that Contreras, El duque , Livan, Soler, Morales would have all gone in the first round of the draft if they had not been free agents. Players like them obviously are better off by exploring the free agent market. Players like Escobar and Hassan I think are better off staying here while showing themselves more to all the teams

    Anyway, Im sure Hassan will have plenty of opportunity to show his talent. As for taking this personally, I can assure that I am not, as I dont really have a personal stake in this matter.

    Obviously, it seems that you think going to another country and becoming a FA is always better than staying here, that is why you are " Agente LIbre"
    I think that its usually better for Cuabns to become a free agent but in some cases its not worth all the hassles.

  20. #95
    Ok guys time out. What does JUCO means? I am not an agent. As for Bermudez stats, they are better than Pena's. Bermudez has a better ERA and opponents ave against him.
    Both were born in 1985.


    Both are going to get drafted in the first 3 round God willing.
    Last edited by Cubano100%; 02-09-2006 at 10:29 AM.

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    92

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Cubano100%
    Ok guys tiem out. What does JUCO means? I am not an agent. As for Bermudez stats, they are better than Pena's. Bermudez has a better ERA and opponents ave against him.
    Both were born in 1985.


    Both are going to get drafted in the first 3 round God willing.
    JUCO is Junior Collloge or Community College 2 years college not a University... Reason people go to Junior Colloge is to become Draft eligible in those two years any of those two years. Unlike University you're not eligible after your Junior year "3 years" depending on your age to...

  23. #98
    That's odd. I thought Bermudez was 1-2 years older than Pena but I guess he's only a few months older.

    No one seems to know what Bermudez is doing. I don't see how he's getting drafted in the first 3 rounds if he's not pitching anywhere and not having workouts.

  24. #99
    On a different topic, I've seen Cuban defector Alejandro Zuaznabar mentioned here and elsewhere. I had never heard of him before; does anyone know when he defected and where? It says he signed with the Mets in Jan. 2005 but has been having paperwork problems, which means he must have defected in 2003 or 2004. Thanks.

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Libre
    On a different topic, I've seen Cuban defector Alejandro Zuaznabar mentioned here and elsewhere. I had never heard of him before; does anyone know when he defected and where? It says he signed with the Mets in Jan. 2005 but has been having paperwork problems, which means he must have defected in 2003 or 2004. Thanks.

    I can not post the info from the Nicaraguan Winter league. They used a program that does not allow me to copy and paste. They had a section for players form other countires playing in this year tournament. They had the following on Zuaznabar:

    He was a member of the Cuban Junior Team in World Tournament in Quebec 2002. He played 2 years for Metropolitanos before seaking refugee in Venezuela. With Hugo Chavez?

    Imagine a Cuban defector seaking help from Chavez! He only played 11 games in the Venezuelan Summer League (final 2 weeks) and was not able to travel to the USA in 2005. He supposely batted 301 en 2004 for the Metros.
    He plays 3B ant outfield. He is 6'0 and weights 180 pounds. He is 21. He was 11 out of 44 in Venezuela for a 250 average.




    From the 2004-05 season files: I changed the age already.

    Reinier Bermúdez Collazo
    Fecha de Nacimiento: 6 de enero de 1985
    Lugar: Plaza, Ciudad de la Habana
    Edad: 21 años
    Estatura: 1´78
    Peso: 70 kg
    Batea: Derecha
    Tira: Derecha
    Posición: Lanzador
    Series: 1
    Equipos: Metropolitanos e Industriales (Nacional)
    Debut: XLIII Serie Nacional 2003-04 con Metropolitanos
    Residencia: Plaza, Ciudad de la Habana
    Equipos en la Serie Provincial: Cerro

    Bermúdez debutó con Metropolitanos en la pasada contienda, y tuvo buenas actuaciones a pesar de su promedio de limpias de 4.83. Relevó 13 juegos y abrió en dos oportunidad, mostrando talento y condiciones para convertirse en un pitcher ganador dentro de nuestras Series Nacionales. Estaba inicialmente en el roster de Metros en esta justa, pero un cambio de última hora lo traspasó a la selección azul por el también lanzador derecho David Álvarez Pombo.


    Hassan Pena
    Fecha de Nacimiento: 25 de marzo de 1985
    Lugar: Centro Habana, Ciudad de la Habana
    Edad: 21 años
    Estatura: 1´84
    Peso: 83 kg
    Batea: Derecha
    Tira: Derecha
    Posición: Lanzador
    Series: 1
    Equipos: Metropolitanos e Industriales (Nacional)
    Debut: XLIII Serie Nacional 2003-04 con Metropolitanos
    Residencia: Centro Habana, Ciudad de la Habana
    Número: 34
    Equipos en la Serie Provincial: Centro Habana

    Posee todo lo necesario para que se convierta con el paso de algunos años en uno de los mejores lanzadores cubanos. Condiciones físicas idóneas para lanzar y una velocidad elevada que combina con efectivos lanzamientos en rompimiento, le dieron buenas actuaciones en la pasada serie, en la que no obstante le faltó estabilidad. Poco a poco debe ir madurando en todos los sentidos, para que de esa manera los mismos resultados sobresalientes en las categorías precedentes pueda mantenerlo en la Serie Nacional e incluso, extrafronteras.


    Save your info before it is gone.........I am glad I saved some of the teams info before it was gone.
    Last edited by Cubano100%; 02-09-2006 at 05:15 PM.

Page 4 of 84 FirstFirst ... 234561454 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •