Let's Deal With Barry Bonds.

[Ubiquitous]

Barry's court date has been postponed to June 17th. It was orginally scheduled for this Friday.

[Ubiquitous]

Barry's court date has again been postponed. It was scheduled for Friday June 17th but has been pushed back to Friday June 24th.

[Ubiquitous]

This Thursday we'll finally have a hearing on the defense's motion to either grant a retrial or vacate the ruling. Plus it is expected that we'll hear from the government on whether or not they are going to retry the other charges.

[Steven Gallanter]

And how do you leave no paper trail? Are you suggesting that players simply made these steroids by growing them in their garden and then "cooking" them in their basement? There will always be a paper trail.

Steroids are sold in bars and gyms. No paper trail.

[Ubiquitous]

They were grown in the gym's or bar's garden?

[Steven Gallanter]

Steve Gallanter's posts are making me think twice about getting back in shape. The chemicals he speaks of seem to be so readily available. Good thing I never cancelled my Bally's membership; now all I need to do is hook up with some of "the stuff."

My face has gotten chubbier along with my body; where can I get ahold of some of this Deca-Drol that will give me a Donald Draper jawline?

Ask your doctor. That's how I got mine. Deca-Drol is relatively mild. It is especially useful in preventing weight loss. It definitely helps to overcome the next day soreness from lifting weights. Indeed, this is the primary use.

I would be interested to know of your experience should you choose to go this route.

Once again, I have done nothing illegal nor would I post anything regarding someone else's possibly illegal acquisition and/or use of Deca-Drol.

[Ubiquitous]

Feds drop the remaining charges against Bonds.

[drstrangelove]

Feds drop the remaining charges against Bonds.

There was some surprise at this since one deadlocked count was 11-1 to convict. Can't be sure if there wasn't an agreement to drop charges if he refuses to contest the conviction, or drop them in exchange for a less aggressive sentencing request by the feds. We'll know more by the time sentencing comes up in December.

My guess is he gets 6-12 months of house arrest (probably 6), with possibly 1 year probation. Due to the high profile of his and this case and what this judge has already doled out to other less known culprits (plus what Anderson served), I think anything less is unlikely.

There is a change he gets more though if his attorneys want to push the issue. Just sayin'.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

There was some surprise at this since one deadlocked count was 11-1 to convict. Can't be sure if there wasn't an agreement to drop charges if he refuses to contest the conviction, or drop them in exchange for a less aggressive sentencing request by the feds. We'll know more by the time sentencing comes up in December.

My guess is he gets 6-12 months of house arrest (probably 6), with possibly 1 year probation. Due to the high profile of his and this case and what this judge has already doled out to other less known culprits (plus what Anderson served), I think anything less is unlikely.

There is a change he gets more though if his attorneys want to push the issue. Just sayin'.

That 11-1 to convict, Barry got lucky on that one, but he did beat it. How was he lucky, because 11 on the jury found Kathy Hoskins believable. Her claim that she was present when Grag Anderson injected Barry. Her words, Greg said he was hesitant to inject him in front of her. Barry said, she wont say anything.

The lucky part was, one on the jury wasn't considering that Kathy Hoskins was believable based on her testimony.
Her reason not to convict was because Kathy's brother Steve had a falling out with Barry.

Kind of surprised to her the woman say her decision was not based on testimony, that 11 believed, it was based on an event between her brother and Barry.

This was another perjury charge, that Barry lied when he denied being injected by anyone other than a doctor.
Thats the way the system works, shame is this woman made a decision not based on the testimony of the witness.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I didn't think the feds would go any further, would be a waste of time and money.

[Ubiquitous]

30 days of house arrest and two years on probation.

[Bill Burgess]

30 days of house arrest and two years on probation.

Extremely light punishment. But then again, proving he knowingly lied to the Grand Jury was extremely hard to prove. About what I expected. I'm glad it's over. And I'm sure he is too.

Bonds was one of two former baseball superstars to stand trial in doping-related cases this year.
The trial of pitcher Roger Clemens was halted after just two days in July because prosecutors used inadmissible evidence. U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton has set a new trial for April 17.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/1...#ixzz1gjyQ2LhO

[Ubiquitous]

They didn't prove he lied and mumbling an answer shouldn't put you in jail which is what he got convicted on.

The punishment has been delay pending an appeal.

[pheasant]

hypothetical Barry Bonds decline, assuming that he didn't use steroids after 1998:



year.... G....... AB.... R.... H.... 2b.... 3b.... HR.... AVG.... RBI.... ..SB.... CS.... BB.... SO... slug... .obp.... TB

2000 143 480 108 140 28 5 35 .292 108 25 7 110 90 .590 .425 283

2001 140 469 100 135 23 4 31 .288 101 22 7 105 92 . 552 .418 259

2002 135 458 93 131 22 4 29 .286 96 21 7 103 88 .541 .417 248

2003 131 449 88 124 20 3 26 .276 88 18 6 97 86 .508 .405 228

2004 125 431 83 116 17 2 23 .269 80 15 6 90 82 .478 .395 206

2005 120 416 76 111 15 2 20 .267 76 14 6 85 80 .457 .391 190

7 yrs 794 2703 458 757 125 20 164 .280 549 115 39 590 518 .523 .409 1414

total 2794 9679 1913 2767 548 85 609 .286 1979 575 171 2020 1630 .549 .409 5312

Bonds, 609 HRs, 1979 RBIs, 1913 Runs, 575 steals, .286/.409/.559

[StanTheMan]

Wow. Somebody has a lot of darts and ample wall space.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Wow. Somebody has a lot of darts and ample wall space.

No need to advertise.

[Los Bravos]

That seems about right.

A brilliant career, thrown away.

[leewileyfan]

I would say a brilliant career and a gifted athlete I was fortunate enough to have seen at his most productive. In a morality play in which those in a position to judge and punish looked the other way when the turnstiles spun and the fans crowded in, I find it extremely difficult to condemn anyone who sought an edge when the likelihood of righteous condemnation seemed unlikely.

Then too, when the individual in question is one known to have subjected himself to a torturous training routine that made others quit, I see, at a minimum, a rigorous attempt to be "at one's very performance best" as a reward for the effort.

POST 1973, the real MLB formulation of uniformly published and posted rules, testing routines, penalties, etc., any player caught using banned substances has no leg to stand on. Pre and through 1973, not so much the case.

I thank Barry again ... better than a fireworks display.

[bluesky5]

I would say a brilliant career and a gifted athlete I was fortunate enough to have seen at his most productive. In a morality play in which those in a position to judge and punish looked the other way when the turnstiles spun and the fans crowded in, I find it extremely difficult to condemn anyone who sought an edge when the likelihood of righteous condemnation seemed unlikely.

Then too, when the individual in question is one known to have subjected himself to a torturous training routine that made others quit, I see, at a minimum, a rigorous attempt to be "at one's very performance best" as a reward for the effort.

POST 1973, the real MLB formulation of uniformly published and posted rules, testing routines, penalties, etc., any player caught using banned substances has no leg to stand on. Pre and through 1973, not so much the case.

I thank Barry again ... better than a fireworks display.

Thats about the best synopsis of the situation I've ever read.

[willshad]

hypothetical Barry Bonds decline, assuming that he didn't use steroids after 1998:



year.... G....... AB.... R.... H.... 2b.... 3b.... HR.... AVG.... RBI.... ..SB.... CS.... BB.... SO... slug... .obp.... TB

2000 143 480 108 140 28 5 35 .292 108 25 7 110 90 .590 .425 283

2001 140 469 100 135 23 4 31 .288 101 22 7 105 92 . 552 .418 259

2002 135 458 93 131 22 4 29 .286 96 21 7 103 88 .541 .417 248

2003 131 449 88 124 20 3 26 .276 88 18 6 97 86 .508 .405 228

2004 125 431 83 116 17 2 23 .269 80 15 6 90 82 .478 .395 206

2005 120 416 76 111 15 2 20 .267 76 14 6 85 80 .457 .391 190

7 yrs 794 2703 458 757 125 20 164 .280 549 115 39 590 518 .523 .409 1414

total 2794 9679 1913 2767 548 85 609 .286 1979 575 171 2020 1630 .549 .409 5312

Bonds, 609 HRs, 1979 RBIs, 1913 Runs, 575 steals, .286/.409/.559

This looks pretty accurate, I think Jim Thome's lifetime stats are about what Bonds would have done with a natural decline..and this is pretty close to Thome. This is probably a best case scenario, though, assuming he doesn't have a sudden fall-off the-map dale Murphy type decline, and stays relatively healthy.

I think he doesn't get to 600 home runs naturally, though. Remember, only 5 guys have hit 600+ home runs without steroids (assuming Griffey and Thome are clean).

[pheasant]

This looks pretty accurate, I think Jim Thome's lifetime stats are about what Bonds would have done with a natural decline..and this is pretty close to Thome. This is probably a best case scenario, though, assuming he doesn't have a sudden fall-off the-map dale Murphy type decline, and stays relatively healthy.

I think he doesn't get to 600 home runs naturally, though. Remember, only 5 guys have hit 600+ home runs without steroids (assuming Griffey and Thome are clean).

600 HRs is a special number. I think Bonds could have done it, mainly due to the fact that he was a fitness freak, which helped him stay in incredible shape. But he would have needed to avoid a major injury, which requires some degree of luck too.

[willshad]

I would say a brilliant career and a gifted athlete I was fortunate enough to have seen at his most productive. In a morality play in which those in a position to judge and punish looked the other way when the turnstiles spun and the fans crowded in, I find it extremely difficult to condemn anyone who sought an edge when the likelihood of righteous condemnation seemed unlikely.

Then too, when the individual in question is one known to have subjected himself to a torturous training routine that made others quit, I see, at a minimum, a rigorous attempt to be "at one's very performance best" as a reward for the effort.

POST 1973, the real MLB formulation of uniformly published and posted rules, testing routines, penalties, etc., any player caught using banned substances has no leg to stand on. Pre and through 1973, not so much the case.

I thank Barry again ... better than a fireworks display.

Whether you choose to condemn him or not, we cannot take his video game numbers post 2000 seriously. To me, it is not a matter of judging steroid users and thinking they should be punished. it is a matter of how much they degraded the record books and eclipsed players who they otherwise could not match. I don't give a damn about the guy who juiced in order to keep his job in the majors...I care about the guys who were wining MVPs and obtaining HOF numbers. Yes, technically it is the same 'crime'...but it is like comparing a thief who stole 100 bucks to one who stole millions.

Bonds cheated his way into the rarefied air of guys like Ruth, Williams, and Gehrig. he should not be 'punished' for it...but he should not still be included in this group either. He was not Babe Ruth.. he was Jim Thome with speed.

[StanTheMan]

It was well known, if not "clear" that detection and punishment for using these drugs was probably not going to be investigated or handled in a disciplinary fashion by MLB.

But then, why did EVERY SINGLE player not use? Grand Jury threats?

Perhaps because these drugs were illegal to purchase, sell, distribute etc on every square in of American soil? Congratulations to all players who played the game the way it was intended to be played and posted real numbers, actual accomplishments, and we're honest with the game, their ability, and the fans.

Barry cared enough to do what he did and pleased the fans by producing big results? Insert vomit icon here substantial enough to represent the hundreds of thousands of Non-Giant fans who could care less about him at this point.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

It was well known, if not "clear" that detection and punishment for using these drugs was probably not going to be investigated or handled in a disciplinary fashion by MLB.

But then, why did EVERY SINGLE player not use? Grand Jury threats?

Perhaps because these drugs were illegal to purchase, sell, distribute etc on every square in of American soil? Congratulations to all players who played the game the way it was intended to be played and posted real numbers, actual accomplishments, and we're honest with the game, their ability, and the fans.

Barry cared enough to do what he did and pleased the fans by producing big results? Insert vomit icon here substantial enough to represent the hundreds of thousands of Non-Giant fans who could care less about him at this point.

The way I feel, for any to say MLB looked the other way so that made using chemicals to gain an edge on those who played the game fair, that made it OK, not buying.

Should MLB have put testing in place earlier, sure they should have, not only steroids but amphetamines also. I don't think it was all about looking the other way. I think at one pint they realized what was taking place but hoped against hope that it would some how go away, it blew up in their face..

I don't cut users any slack, sounds like the old ghetto defense used in criminal trials............sure I did something wrong, but look what was going around in the neigborhood..............give me a break, I wasn't the only one.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Whether you choose to condemn him or not, we cannot take his video game numbers post 2000 seriously. To me, it is not a matter of judging steroid users and thinking they should be punished. it is a matter of how much they degraded the record books and eclipsed players who they otherwise could not match. I don't give a damn about the guy who juiced in order to keep his job in the majors...I care about the guys who were wining MVPs and obtaining HOF numbers. Yes, technically it is the same 'crime'...but it is like comparing a thief who stole 100 bucks to one who stole millions.

Bonds cheated his way into the rarefied air of guys like Ruth, Williams, and Gehrig. he should not be 'punished' for it...but he should not still be included in this group either. He was not Babe Ruth.. he was Jim Thome with speed.

What is it with that silly line.........Barry did what he had to do to be the best and the nonsense that he trained so hard, so we should forget about his using chemicals. Maybe we should give Clemens a break, some younger Yankees couldn't keep pace with his workout routine. Is that what it comes down to, some just used chemicals but Barry and Roger also trained hard, thats in their favor.

Stop the nonsense about blaming it on MLB, what does that make the clean players, are they saints, they could have gone down the same road, but did not.

Barry could have trained and trained and without using chemicals he would never put up those numbers.
May I remind again, Barry not only used Ped's he also tested positive for amhetamines in 2006.
He then said he got the substance from teammate Mark Sweeny's locker, later backed off on that story.
This guy has some real balls, with steroids........if he did use he was unaware..........amphetamines, he got that from a teammates locker.

He also once said, "you use glasses to do your job better, isn't that cheating."
The cloud hangs over his head and Clemens, no excuse they made a bad choice, to use.