View Poll Results: Let's Deal With Barry Bonds.

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  • I believe that Barry did not know he was using steroids, when his trainer gave him Clear/Cream.

    8 2.58%
  • I believe that Barry was aware he was using steroids, when given Clear/Cream.

    258 83.23%
  • I have now dropped Barry Bonds below my Top 10 Position Players.

    89 28.71%
  • I still have Barry Bonds in my Top 10 Position Players.

    129 41.61%
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Thread: Let's Deal With Barry Bonds.

  1. #3276
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    5,441
    Quote Originally Posted by Edgartohof View Post
    What constitutes appalling greed?

    Is wanting to make money appalling? Is $1 million appalling to you? $500,000? Or is it just some other arbitrary number? Whether they used or not, they all wanted to make the most they could, which is something that can be said about many if not most of us. They just happen to be talking in bigger numbers than the average individual.
    You are being too literal. Greed takes many forms.
    3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

    “On an historically great pitching staff, when healthy and starting, he was, actually, The Man.” - Peter Gammons on Hall Of Famer John Smoltz

  2. #3277
    Quote Originally Posted by epaddon View Post
    I'm comparing it based on the standard that gets trotted out about "tainting the record book" and the problem is if you fixate on what impacts the record book, then inevitably the door is going to get swung open for allowing arguments to be made on "tainted records" in other ways, just like we also hear about how the fact that some records are supposedly not as legit if they were established in the pre-integration era (and I have heard some people make that argument). For me, it's ultimately easier to not fixate on that notion of what is a "tainted record" since there's no way it can ever be applied consistently and satisfactorily. I take the view that what's done is done and we should live with it.
    They are not going to rewrite the record book because baseball was not integrated until 1947.
    I and I am sure most real baseball fans found that fact to be a terrible injustice and thats putting it mildly.
    A shame that some of the greatest ballplayers were not in MLB because of skin color.
    It can't be undone, it's in the past. Not the same with chemical use, in just about all sports in recent years PED use is banned, athletes are aware of that.

    The steroid era records have to stand, I see no problem with that, even though I like many other fans look down on PED use in baseball and for that matter all sports. That clean players have to compete with other players using chemicals to boost peformance.
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 04-26-2015 at 03:54 AM.

  3. #3278
    Quote Originally Posted by Los Bravos View Post
    This whole "Steroid users just wanted to play better and help their teams win" meme is particularly infuriating. When you're talking about elite players like Bonds and Clemens, it's about their massive egos and their appalling greed.
    I think ego and boosting performance lead the way, especially the boost factor.

  4. #3279
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Northern plains
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    5,144
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
    Yeah all those record that got broken by greenies and coke. HUGE performance enhancers LOL
    So it's Ok that players cheated the fans by being a bunch of coked out zombies? So it's OK that fans of the Royals, Pirates, Cardinals, and Expos paid their money to see a team (that had the talent to win) pretend to compete, but only care about when their next snort was coming?

    But it's not OK, that players , who wanted to do well, took a performance enhancing substance, often just to compete with the rest of league, who was also doing it.?

  5. #3280
    Quote Originally Posted by JR Hart View Post
    So it's Ok that players cheated the fans by being a bunch of coked out zombies? So it's OK that fans of the Royals, Pirates, Cardinals, and Expos paid their money to see a team (that had the talent to win) pretend to compete, but only care about when their next snort was coming?

    But it's not OK, that players , who wanted to do well, took a performance enhancing substance, often just to compete with the rest of league, who was also doing it.?
    Lets try it one more time, the use of any drugs in sports is not OK.
    One more time, using PED's to boost performance, to gain an edge, compete with clean players is what it's all about.
    And it's not just in baseball.

    For that matter you paint a picture of coke heads just about everywhere.

    It's not about the past, fans and players know it's about PED use in recent years.

  6. #3281
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    north shore of boston
    Posts
    651
    The article article covers every year from 1986-2007



    The Evolution of Barry Bonds
    Sports Illustrated
    http://www.si.com/vault/2007/08/13/1...of-barry-bonds


    Longest home run distances courtesy of Bill Jenkinson, baseball historian and author of The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs.

    1986
    AGE (at start of season): 21
    LISTED HT./WT.: 6' 1'', 185
    GAMES: 113
    BATTING AVERAGE: .223
    ON-BASE PCT.: .330
    SLUGGING PCT.: .416
    HOME RUNS: 16
    HR/AB: 1/25.8
    SB: 36 WALKS: 65
    INTENTIONAL WALKS: 2
    LONGEST HOMER: 425 ft.
    THEY SAID IT
    FROM BONDS
    "In spring training I was in awe [of being around major league ballplayers]; then when I got [to Pittsburgh], I was more ready to play."
    ABOUT BONDS
    "If I had to, I would say he'll be a Hall of Famer."
    BILL VIRDON, Pirates hitting coach
    HOME RUN TALLY 16

    2007

    AGE: 42

    HT./WT.: 6' 2'', 238

    GAMES: 96

    BATTING AVERAGE: .272

    ON-BASE PCT.: .493

    SLUGGING PCT.: .556

    HOME RUNS: 21

    HR/AB: 1/12.4

    SB: 5 WALKS: 113

    INTENTIONAL WALKS: 34

    LONGEST HOMER: 452 ft.

    THEY SAID IT

    FROM BONDS

    "This is the hardest thing I've had to do in my entire career."

    ABOUT BONDS

    "No matter what anybody thinks of the controversy surrounding this event, Mr. Bonds's achievement is noteworthy and remarkable."

    BUD SELIG, MLB commissioner

    HOME RUN TALLY 755
    Promoted Stories
    Last edited by westfield; Today at 07:44 PM.
    ''A sport without black people ain't a sport. That's just a game!... That's like me saying, 'Ooh, I got the highest SAT score in the whole world, but no Asians took the test.' What kind of crap is that? 'I just won the marathon. No Kenyans could run, though!'''
    Chris Rock

  7. #3282
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    14,211
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by westfield View Post
    The article article covers every year from 1986-2007



    The Evolution of Barry Bonds
    Sports Illustrated
    http://www.si.com/vault/2007/08/13/1...of-barry-bonds


    Longest home run distances courtesy of Bill Jenkinson, baseball historian and author of The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs.

    1986
    AGE (at start of season): 21
    LISTED HT./WT.: 6' 1'', 185
    GAMES: 113
    BATTING AVERAGE: .223
    ON-BASE PCT.: .330
    SLUGGING PCT.: .416
    HOME RUNS: 16
    HR/AB: 1/25.8
    SB: 36 WALKS: 65
    INTENTIONAL WALKS: 2
    LONGEST HOMER: 425 ft.
    THEY SAID IT
    FROM BONDS
    "In spring training I was in awe [of being around major league ballplayers]; then when I got [to Pittsburgh], I was more ready to play."
    ABOUT BONDS
    "If I had to, I would say he'll be a Hall of Famer."
    BILL VIRDON, Pirates hitting coach
    HOME RUN TALLY 16

    2007

    AGE: 42

    HT./WT.: 6' 2'', 238

    GAMES: 96

    BATTING AVERAGE: .272

    ON-BASE PCT.: .493

    SLUGGING PCT.: .556

    HOME RUNS: 21

    HR/AB: 1/12.4

    SB: 5 WALKS: 113

    INTENTIONAL WALKS: 34

    LONGEST HOMER: 452 ft.

    THEY SAID IT

    FROM BONDS

    "This is the hardest thing I've had to do in my entire career."

    ABOUT BONDS

    "No matter what anybody thinks of the controversy surrounding this event, Mr. Bonds's achievement is noteworthy and remarkable."

    BUD SELIG, MLB commissioner

    HOME RUN TALLY 755
    Promoted Stories
    I clicked on that link. Some of the distances are wrong as compared to Baseball's Ultimate Power but one thing is definitely clear. Bonds never hit a dinger of 450+ feet that wasn't significantly wind aided, until that 2000 shot at Anaheim that went 485 feet according to Bill.

    If you showed a graph of all the historical tape measure hitters year by year, the true giants were smashing them from the get go. You don't suddenly start hitting 450-500 foot shots from age 35+. It's the most unnatural act in sports I can think of. Even a 35 year old running back breaking Dickerson's single season rushing mark would be more naturally likely.
    I think it's totally unfair to imply I have a small bias towards Cobb. My bias towards Cobb is extremely significant! Was made huge by years of systematic abuse, sitting in front of a microfilm reader at the Palo Alto Library!

    It's one thing to lose to Babe. But to Honus? A fellow dead-baller, who clearly lost on the numbers to Ty, but some want to give him the win with a hypothetical??? I don't think so!! You're off the reservation, Kemosabe.
    - Bill Burgess

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