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Thread: Babe Ruth Discussion Thread

  1. #1
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    Babe Ruth Discussion Thread

    I'd like to create this companion thread to our amazing Babe Ruth Thread. To let us all expand to our hearts content all of our Babe chat. The best of this will be eventually transferred to the other Thread, so the chit chat doesn't sink it.

    Any good Babe stuff guys. Randy, Joe, Chris, this is for us to chew the fat and shoot the Babe breezes. So we can give the other Babe thread a rest for a while.

    Bill Burgess
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 02-18-2008 at 01:38 PM.

  2. #2
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    RUTH STUFF


    Sportswriter Grantland Rice, 1920

    Why is the mad mob howling?
    Hurling its curses out?
    Why is the wild wind yelping?
    What is it all about...
    Maybe you've guessed the answer.
    Hung to the bitter truth -
    Only the rival pitcher,
    Starting to walk Babe Ruth.

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    Brooklyn lefty Sherry Smith talked about facing Ruth for the first time. He walked Babe four times that game, including once intentionally which set off "an awful howl from the stands."

    "If Babe got balls somewhere near where he liked to hit them, he would bat .450. He seldom gets a good ball. A pitcher is foolish to give him a good ball, especially with men on bases."

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    Miller Huggins

    "Take all the adjectives there are in the language which could be used to describe a slugger, plaster them all on and then wish there were a few more for good measure. You can't describe him, you can't compare him with anybody else. He's Babe Ruth."

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    Every Ruthian blast created a new stir. It was an entirely new type of game from the scientific one that Cobb and McGraw favored. Sportswriters began focusing on Babe's new style calling it "a whale versus a shark." Which prompted Casey Stengel to reply with,"Nah, it's a bomb against a machine gun."

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    Walter Johnson

    "He is tall, heavy and strong. His weight is in his shoulders, where it will do him the most good. He is a tremendously powerful man...He grasps the bat with an iron grip and when he meets the ball, he follows through with his full strength and weight. For his size, Joe Jackson is as hard a hitter as Ruth, but that margin of 30 pounds in weight and enormous reserve strength enables Ruth to give the ball that extra punch, which drives it further than anybody else."

    Ruth's 12th homer in 1920 was spectacular. It was the first homer Walter had allowed in over 2 years. It came with 2 men on, in the sixth inning of a 7-7 game, and gave the Yanks a 10-7 win. Johnson threw a hard curve and Ruth hit the ball off the facade of the Polo Grounds roof. The Times the next day reported that the ball "nearly tore away part of the roof." The hype machine was in full force, and Ruth's play gave them no reason not to.

    More Walter on Babe from Baseball Magazine -

    "Ruth is the hardest hitter in the game. There can be no possible doubt on that point. He hits the ball harder and drives it further than any man I ever saw. And old timers whose memory goes back to days when baseball was little more than 'rounders,' tell me they have never seen his equal."

    Johnson contemplates "Ruthmania" -

    "There was an odd angle to the Memorial Day games which illustrate what a curious sport baseball really is. In the first encounter, Duffy Lewis smashed a home run into the stands, which tied up the score. There was very little commotion. A minute later, Truck Hannah drove out another homer, which won the game. The excitement was nothing unusual. Then in the second game, Ruth hit his home run when the game is already won, and there is particularly nothing at stake, and the crowd gets so crazy with excitement, they are ready to tear up the stands. Strange, isn't it?"

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    From "Babe Ruth, Launching the Legend"

    Babe as told to Ferdinand Cole Lane in Baseball Magazine, 1920.

    "Do you see those mud hooks?" Ruth asked Lane one day at the Polo Grounds, extending his enormous, powerful hands to provide more evidence of his abilities. "There's a lot of strength in those hands," said the Babe, gripping the handle of a bat. "And do you notice anything about those hands?" he added, extending his palms to reveal they were covered with calluces. "I got those from gripping this old war club. The harder you grip the bat, the faster the ball will travel...When I swing to meet the baseball, I follow all the way around...In boxing, when you hit a man, your fist generally stops right there, but it is possible to hit a man so hard that your fist doesn't stop. When I carry through with the bat, it is for the same reason."

    Ruth talking about his bat -

    "It's not only heavy, but long, about as long as the law allows. My theory is the bigger the bat the faster the ball will travel. It's really the weight of the bat that drives the ball...I have strength enough to swing it and when I meet the ball, I want to feel that I have something in my hands that will make it travel."

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    Newspaper man had a field day in '20. They called Ruth "Big Bertha," The Son of Swat," and the man "who made sick ball games well."

    "Ruth has become the most alarming menace big league pitchers have ever bucked against. "An extra outfielder stationed in the upper grand stand may be necessary to curb the clouter. But that wouldn't stop Ruth, for they would also have to plant another outfielder out in Manhattan Field, and maybe before the season is over another would have to be scouting flies in Eighth Avenue" - Times, 1920

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    Ken Williams started using a heavier bat (48 oz) after seeing what could be done with it. He gripped his heavier bat tighter than ever, and as he put it, "swinging not only from the shoulders, but from the feet. It's all a matter of taste and batting style. Babe Ruth is the model of all home run sluggers, so I guess I don't have to apoligize for my own preferences."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The press constantly hounded Ruth for exclusives. The competition was fierce to get the best story, the most details on the latest home run, and to out hype eachother. Early in '20, a news organization offered to pay Ruth $1,000 bucks for the season with a $5 bonus for each time he hit one out of the park and described the details. The news place send a guy named Ferguson to New York in attempts at signing the deal, but Babe couldn't be found. Ferguson ended up going to Philadelphia where the Yanks were playing the A's, and he finally found Ruth there, in the middle of a craps game with six teammates at the Aldine Hotel. Ferguson kneeled down with the others and joined in, winning big which was the only reason Babe noticed him. He spit out his offer and Babe signed up.

    A 20 something year old Pegler was given the task of taking what Ruth said, and turning it into something which would be read by all of America. After a dozen or so homers, there was no word from Ruth. Ferguson was upset, and wired the Babe to ask what was happening. A couple nights later, a telegram arrived from Detroit which said, "SOCKED ONE TODAY. FASTBALL. HIGH OUTSIDE. SEND CHECK. BABE."

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    Tidbits

    *Ruth emulated Brother Matthias' batting stance while at St. Mary's. Pigeon-toed lean toward the incoming baseball.

    *Ruth was the best bowler on his early Red Sox team. The best bowler with either the right or left hand.

    *Babe once tried out for a barbershop quartet, and as you'd expect he was turned down.

    *Had there been no baseball, Babe probably would have ended up as a tailor or shirtmaker. Learning the trade while at St. Mary's he was quite good at it, and even years later as a rich man, would personally fix his expensive shirts by hand.

    *His father and older brother both were killed in street fights. [Babe's Dad was killed outside his bar, trying to mediate a scuffle, on August 25, 1918. He was stabbed with a knife by his brother-in-law, who claimed it was self-defense, and was later determined to be an accident. Babe was 23.]

    *Babe always wore the best tailored suits and his nails were done by a manicurist

    *The term "murderers row" was formed from the 1919 Yankee team. A lineup that included Pipp, Baker, Bodie, and Lewis. (speaking of Pipp, he gets a bad rap by history regarding Lou Gehrig's streak. Pipp didn't just have a headache the day he sat out, he had a fractured skull as a result of a batting practice beanball to the head. A pitch thrown by rookie Charlie Caldwell, who later became Princeton's football coach)

    *Babe's favorite shows were "Gangbusters" and "The Lone Ranger."

    *He gave up reading early in his career out of fear of it ruining his batting eye.

    *Some 77,000 people filed past his open coffin in Yankee Stadium on Aug 19, 1948, three days after his passing. From there it was to a mass and then the casket was taken 30 miles to the cemetary where 6,000 people had waited since the early morning. Ruth is buried within 200 feet of Mayor Jimmy Walker who was an old friend of his who once told him, "Never let those poor kids down."

    *Babe led the Yanks in SB in '20 and '23, and tied for the team lead (17) in '21.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    July 9, 1920 was a Friday. Before the home game, the Knights of Columbus presented him with a diamond-studded watch. Ping Bodie was standing near Ruth at home plate for the ceremony, and later joked, "if anyone handed me a cluster of sparklers like that, it would be my luck to have them turn out to be ice...The best I get for hitting home runs is a box of socks."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    He got huge amounts of mail and room for it all was becoming scarce. An extra locker was used for storage. Babe would often ask a teammate, "Open these for me, will ya. Keep the ones with the checks and the ones from the broads." Once the team trainer, Doc Woods went through a garbage basket stuffed with Ruth's discarded mail and found $6,000 in checks and endorsements.

    Many of the letters were outrageous requests and get-rich schemes. He ignored most, but some he answered, especially those from young boys asking for an autograph. A Ruth biographer, Lee Allen, estimated that in 1920 the Babe signed roughly 5,000 pictures and sent them to children who had written him. This was a time when the autograph craze was still far in the future. Allen also wrote that "the chances are that he made 10 quiet visits to see a boy in a hospital for every one that was publicized."

    One of the letters was a shoe company offering him a free pair for every homer he hit. He accepted the offer and insisted that the company donate each pair to a Catholic orphanage in New York.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Most of the ballplayers back then liked to walk to and from the Polo Grounds. Ruth could not do this without complications. In later years he would leave the ballpark through back exists because of the commotion.

    One witnesses account of a mob scene: "Ruth blocks traffic going to and from the clubhouse. Men and boys fought with one another yesterday after the game to reach his side and grasp the mighty hands which clutch the home run bat. Girls and women make him pose for snapshots and proud fathers edge their lads up to him to lay his mammoth paws on their curly heads."

    Novelist James T. Farrell was 19 years old when he saw Ruth leaving Comiskey Park one day surrounded by more than 100 kids.

    He later wrote about it:

    "Wearing a blue suit and a gray cap, there was an expression of bewilderment on his moon face. He said nothing, rolled with the kids, and the strange, hysterical and noisy little mob slowly moved on the the exit gate with Ruth in the center of it. More kids rushed to the edge of the crowd and they, also, pushed and shoved, Ruth swayed from side to side, his shoulders bending one way, and then the other. As they all swirled to the gate, Ruth narrowly escaped being shoved into mustard, which had been spilled from an overturned barrel. Ruth and the kids left the park, with the big fellow still in the center of the crowd of kids."

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    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 08-06-2006 at 12:07 AM.
    "Everyone left here, but I remain at my post, documenting my sports writers and photos. I don't do Ty Cobb anymore. I did for him everything I could do. Work will live on. Personalities will fade.

    Fever members come and go. Not relevant. Your documentations will live FOREVER, my brother. That outweighs all the Fever jack-asses. Ignore what you must, document all you can."
    - Bill Burgess

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    RUTH STUFF

    He got huge amounts of mail and room for it all was becoming scarce. An extra locker was used for storage. Babe would often ask a teammate, "Open these for me, will ya. Keep the ones with the checks and the ones from the broads." Once the team trainer, Doc Woods went through a garbage basket stuffed with Ruth's discarded mail and found $6,000 in checks and endorsements.

    One of the letters was a shoe company offering him a free pair for every homer he hit. He accepted the offer and insisted that the company donate each pair to a Catholic orphanage in New York.--[/b]
    A good number of those checks, hundreds of them were sent with only one purpose of the sender. It was a clever way of getting Babe Ruth's signature when the cancelled check was retrieved by the sender.

    On that shoe deal, I believe that was for the 1921 season and Ruth personally handed out 59 pair of shoes to the children.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 02-27-2006 at 04:31 PM.

  4. #4
    Get this one, I had verified by one of the boys at Sabermetrics. I have that email from them and the fellow that answered my question, if I can find it( lost some how) I can post his name.

    I believe it was the 1920 season, I know it was a Yanks/ White Sox game.
    The situation, the 9th inning, White Sox batting, two outs, Yanks ahead by something like ten runs. The batter may have been George Payne, will check that if I can locate that email.

    In the outfield runs a small dog. Ruth tosses his glove at the pup to scare him off. The dog puts the bite on Ruth's glove and Ruth playfully gets on his hands and knees, amused by the dog, the dog runs off with the glove. Just then the batter lifts a high fly and Ruth pulls it in bare handed, game over.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackout805
    thanks, what was Ruth's "auto"biography? (using the term Auto losely)
    Babe supposedly wrote an autobiography in 1928. It was tititled, "Babe Ruth's Own Book on Baseball." They promoted it as Babe's own book. Bunch of baloney. Everyone knew that Ford Frick ghost-wrote the entire thing, every syllable, and I have very good reasons to suspect that Babe never even read it. Just signed off on the project. I believe that Frick was working at the time as one of the writers in Christy Walsh's stable of ghosts. The other syndicate of ghosts worked under John N. Wheeler.

    The 1948 book, "The Babe Ruth Story", by Bob Considine, was never promoted as an autobiography. Simply another biography, and Considine received much of his material from Fred Lieb.

    One of the reasons why I doubt that Babe even read the 1928 Ford Frick book, is because of some things it has Babe saying. It puts classical references in Babe's mouth, which Frick's friends knew Frick loved.

    It also had a place where Babe is saying, "If I didn't have to hit home runs, I'd study Ty Cobb like a hawk, and imitate every single thing he does on the ballfield, in every particular. He is the greatest player anyone ever saw." They admired each other off the chart, but would never have been caught saying those things while Ty still played. They were far too competitive with each other.

    Bill Burgess
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 12-18-2005 at 11:33 AM.

  6. #6
    September 3, 1915. Ruth throws a two hitter at the Chicago White Sox. Boston manages just 3 hits, two of them by Ruth a single and a double. Ruth's double off the fence in left field brings home the winning run.

    July 31, 1916. Ruth throws a two hitter at the Tigers. Cobb bounces one over second base in the fourth inning. Later in the game Burns hits a fly down the line that Lewis just misses, hits the foul line for a double.

    July 11,1917. Ruth throws a one hitter at the Tigers.Tiger SS Bush hits a ball off of Ruth's leg. The ball bounces to Boston second baseman Janvrin who throws to first but Bush beats the throw.

  7. #7
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    It looks as if Babe had the Tigers number, just as he had Walter Johnson's number. Now I realize his team might have been better. Is that what your research shows? That Babe owned the Tigers as his cousins?

    Sultan:
    123 career homers against Detroit, 15 more than anyone else. He must have liked hitting off Dauss, Ehmke, Leonard, and Whitehill.

    JoeJackson3:
    When I last looked a couple of years ago, this probably still stands.
    The most home runs hit by a visitor at any park over a career was Babe Ruth with 60 at Tiger Stadium.


    JoeJackson3:

    Some of his best games were pitched against the Tigers but overall the Tigers did good against Ruth.


    Ruth's won/lost against the AL teams while with Red Sox.

    St. Louis------------20-4
    New York-----------17-5
    Philadelphia---------13-6
    Chicago-------------7-6
    Detroit-------------11-10
    Cleveland-----------9-9
    -------------------89-46

    He did pick up 5 more wins as a Yankee. His last two wins were against his old team, the Red Sox.
    In 1933 he pitched his last game and that was against the Red Sox. He had pitched only one game in the last 12 years yet he went the whole 9 innings. He won that game 6-5 and his 34th home run of the season contributed to that win. He gave up 12 hits no strikeouts and 3 walks. He was arm weary and could have left the game with the lead. When asked why he went all the way he said because the fans came to see me pitch. His arm was so tired and sore he could not raise it for days.
    His catcher Joe Glenn. Joe could tell his grandchildren quite a story. He was the catcher for the only pitching appearance by Ted Williams. He caught for two of the greatest hitters ever.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 08-06-2006 at 12:12 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by four tool
    Does anyone have Ruth's park by park numbers? That's info I've been looking for for years.
    I've never seen Ruth's home runs broke down by parks. I did take a quick look at some numbers, have to check these but I believe them to be correct.

    Yankee Stadium--------259
    Fenway-----------------38
    Tiger Stadium-----------60

    Polo Grounds----------- no less than 75 and I would say no more than 80. He hit 75 home runs as a Yankee in 1920-21-22 when it was his home park and I am estimating around 5 more at the Polo Grounds as a Red Sox.

    Forbes Field at least 3, his last 3 all in one game. Have to check where he hit the other 3 home runs he hit as Boston Brave in 1935.

    Sultan:
    posted this a long time ago on the other babe thread:

    HR's in cities

    New York ---- 346
    Philadelphia -- 68
    Detroit ------ 59
    Boston ------ 57
    St. Louis ---- 55
    Cleveland --- 46
    Chicago ---- 46
    Washington - 34
    Pittsburgh --- 3

    Opposing AL clubs

    Detroit ------ 123
    Philadelphia -- 108
    Chicago ---- 98
    St. Louis ---- 97
    Cleveland --- 92
    Boston ------ 90
    Washington - 88

    Pitchers

    Righties - 493
    Leftie --- 221

    By Months

    April ---- 48
    May --- 133
    June --- 140
    July - --148
    August - 124
    Sept -- -115
    Oct. ---- 6
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 08-06-2006 at 12:14 AM.

  9. #9
    He was old, out of shape sick with a cold the first month of the 1935 season but they still came to see him play. The Boston Braves pulled in more money in the first 8 exhibition games in 1935 than they did in 27 exhibition games in 1934.

    On his return to New York as a Brave 50,000 fans attended the opening game at the Polo Grounds the largest ever number for an opener at the Polo Grounds. He was not himself, sick and with his legs bothering him all of April and May till he gave it up. He made some errors that cost the Braves a couple of games. At times he made some great defensive plays in the outfield one of them a bare handed catch after a long run.

    When he hit his third home run of the game at Pittsburgh his legs troubled him so much that after he crossed home plate he went and sat in the Pirates dug out, it was a shorter walk to his position in the outfield after his team finished batting. His comment to the Pirates, "that one really felt good boys."

    Too bad he did not take wife Claire's advice. She wanted him to quit after that big game, a single, three home runs, the last one over the roof and into Schenley park, what a way to go out.
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 12-28-2005 at 08:54 PM.

  10. #10
    Joe and Sultan-
    I wanted to commend both of you on the amount of time and effort that you put into the cause of getting the most accurate, in depth information on George Herman Ruth.

    Both of you have been a pleasure to debate with (and learn from).

    -Chris

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001
    Joe and Sultan-
    I wanted to commend both of you on the amount of time and effort that you put into the cause of getting the most accurate, in depth information on George Herman Ruth.

    Both of you have been a pleasure to debate with (and learn from).
    -Chris
    The Babe makes it easy, seldom does he do anything ordinary. It takes some time and effort but one can always find something of interest that he did.

    I usually try to find some of his deeds that are out of the ordinary or not well known to most.

  12. #12
    September 27, 1914 the Chicago Cubs play an exhibition game against the minor league Providence Grays.the game is played at Rocky Point and the Grays win 8-7. Pitching for the Grays 19 year old Babe Ruth. At the plate Ruth hits a triple and a home run. The home run is described as a long home run, a "splash", ( take that Barry) the ball comes down in the Narragansett Bay. The Cubs are paid 400 dollars for their days work.

    1934 Babe Ruth does three 15 minute radio commercials a week for 13 weeks for Quaker Oats. He is paid 39000.00 dollars, almost 3000 dollars more than the Yanks pay him to play.

    September 24, 1931 at a benefit exhibition game to help the unemployed at the Polo Grounds, a running, a throwing and a fungo hitting contest are part of the days activities.

    Lefty O'Doul was timed at 3.3 going to first base.
    Ben Chapman made the longest throw, 392 feet 10 inches.
    Babe Ruth hit the longest fungo fly, 421 feet. According to the Baseball Library web site Ruth chose to bat right handed in that event.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 04-14-2006 at 09:15 AM.

  13. #13
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    Taken from a Buck O'neil PBS interview:

    Is there one moment in all of baseball you wish you could have seen?

    I wish I could have been there when Babe Ruth pointed and hit the ball out of the ballpark in the 1932 World Series. I wish I could have seen that. But I did see something I admired just about as much, with Satchel Paige and Babe Ruth. This was in Chicago, after Ruth came out of the major leagues. He was barnstorming, playing with different teams, and he played us. Satchel was pitching and Ruth was hitting. Satchel threw Ruth the ball and Ruth hit the ball, must have been 500 feet, off of Satchel. Satchel looked at Ruth all the way around the bases and when Ruth got to home plate, you know who shook his hand? Satchel Paige shook Ruth's hand at home plate.
    They stopped the game and waited, he and Satchel talking, until the kid went out, got the ball, brought it back and Satchel had Babe Ruth autograph that ball for him. That was some kind of moment.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by blackout805
    Taken from a Buck O'neil PBS interview:

    Is there one moment in all of baseball you wish you could have seen?
    That was a great story. I saw that clip of Buck and have it saved some where. I believe it was on a CD I have, "The All Century Team" or on that Ken Burns special. Buck is some guy, some great stories, always interesting to listen to.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 02-27-2006 at 04:42 PM.

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    Anyone see Unsolved Mysteries this morning? They showed a segment about stolen baseball memorabilia, including Babe Ruth's uniform. They showed footage of Ruth's 60th home run as both the teaser and to begin the segment itself. Also includes a stolen Mickey Mantle uniform, Pete Rose silver bat, Honus Wagner baseball cards and lots of rings.

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    I've seen some data on BBF on how Negro League players performed against major leaguers. Is there any data on how the Bambino performed in all of his barnstorming games against Negro League players? I found his stats from his trip to Cuba, and 3 games in the 20s against the Royal Giants and Bacharach Giants. From all of those games I have him at 15 for 40 with 5 homers, 3 triples, and 3 doubles. If nobody has researched this I would be willing to take a shot at it.

    These games are used to describe how good some of the NLers were relative to major leaguers so I think it makes sense to use them to show how well stars of the majors would have performed if the leagues were integrated.

    Eric
    "Batting slumps? I never had one. When a guy hits .358, he doesn't have slumps."

    Rogers Hornsby, 1961

  17. #17
    39 total bases in 40 AB? That's scary!!!!!!!!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bench 5
    I've seen some data on BBF on how Negro League players performed against major leaguers. Is there any data on how the Bambino performed in all of his barnstorming games against Negro League players? I found his stats from his trip to Cuba, and 3 games in the 20s against the Royal Giants and Bacharach Giants. From all of those games I have him at 15 for 40 with 5 homers, 3 triples, and 3 doubles. If nobody has researched this I would be willing to take a shot at it.
    where did you find those stats??? i've looked all over for barnstorm info and never found it
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ShoelessJoe3 comes through in the pinch!

    BLACKOUT805, BENCH5. I did repost some info on Ruth playing blacks and some Cubans. However the repost came up on the thread titled "Babe Ruth Thread." Bill Burgess, is there a possibility you can move that post to this thread?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You want, you got.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Always searching for any little bit I can find on Babe. I know he did play some exhibition games against black teams, wondered how he did.

    I did find a small number of articles dealing on this subject.

    In one game in 1922 Ruth batted 4 times and was struck out 3 times. No info on what Ruth did in that 4th at bat.That pitcher was Dick Redding, the Cannonball. Ruth was impressed and commented to Redding how far he would go in baseball if he was white.

    Oct 12, 1920 in 4 a bats, two strikeouts, one fly out and one walk. No info on the black pitcher.

    In Havana 1920.
    First game Ruth hit a single and a triple.
    Second game he was struck out 3 times.
    No info on the black pitcher.

    Ruth and "Cannonball" Redding meet again.
    First at bat, Ruth grounds out to Redding.
    Second at bat, Ruth strikes out.
    Third at bat, Ruth hits one over the RF fence.
    Fourth at bat, 9th inning, Ruth hits another one over the RF fence, described a deep over that fence.
    All at bats against Redding.

    A game played in 1923, no info on the pitcher.
    Ruth 4 for 5, two singles, two home runs one ground out.

    A game played in 1921 with little info. Only note that the crowd went home happy after seeing Ruth hit one into the next county.

    One game played in 1920 Ruth played first base. Took the mound in the 5th inning. First batter he faced, the great Cuban hitter, Cristobal Torriente who smashed a line drive double. Ruth struck out the next three hitters.

    On some of the great blacks he saw, Ruth thought that John Henry Lloyd was one of the greatest he ever saw, white or black. Connie Mack said you could put the two shortstops in a bag, Honus Wagner and Lloyd and you could not lose, no matter which one you pulled out.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    I am aware of only one at bat that Ruth faced Stachel Paige. He most likely had more than one at bat that game but only one was commented on.

    The words of black star Buck O'Neil. In one game Ruth hit a long home run off of Satch, one of the longest I had ever seen. Satch called time and the game was held up for some time while a young boy retrieved the ball. Satch took the ball to Babe Ruth and had Ruth autograph the ball.

    I can't recall if this portion of an interview with Buck was from the Ken Burn's baseball special or from a CD the "All Century Team" positive it was one of these, maybe both.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    And so does Randy:

    A few things from Babe and Lou's Barstorming trip after '27. (paraphrased from "Luckiest Man.")

    In two weeks they traveled 8,000 miles and stopped in sixteen cities. This trip did a lot in preparing Americans for Jackie Robinson, and also did a lot for Gehrig; as he was taught valuable lessons from Babe.

    First game was played against the Royal Giants of the Negro Leagues in Trenton New Jersey. The Giants had driven their team bus from Brooklyn. Babe homered in the first inning and was mobbed by screaming kids. He circled the bases with kids hanging from his legs and arms. In the third he homered again and fans came back out onto the field. In the seventh he hit his third of the game and again the fans stormed the field. This time though, they would not return to their seats, so the game was called.

    Two games later, they again played against the Royal Giants, and this game really seemed like a circus. The game was in Asbury Park, NJ. More than 7,000 fans jammed into High School Field, as the entire Asbury Park police force guarded the stadium. Once the game began, they might as well have not even been there.

    Early in the game with Ruth on first, a wild pitch went to the backstop and Ruth took off for second. As the catcher turned to get the ball, a kid jumped from the stands and grabbed it. The catcher chased the kid around and eventually gave up. Ruth was safe at second. Fans continued to steal balls throughout the game, and they also started approaching Ruth and Gehrig for autographs as they took their positions.

    Walsh had brought 36 baseballs for the trip. He was down to his last one when Gehrig homered to right field. The ball landed in Deal Lake.

    The trip headed west and from then on Babe and Lou would play on opposite teams. The Bustin' Babe's and the Larrupin' Lous.

    In Stockton, California Babe became the first man ever to hit a ball out of the stadium.

    In San Jose he was carried off the field by fans after a ninth-inning home run.

    In Fresno, the Larrupin' Lous were made up of some Japanese immigrants.

    In San Diego, a local amateur named Pete Grijalva played on Babe's team. He was on cloud nine just to be in the same stadium as Babe and Lou, but now he was on the field, and had just singled sharply to center field. He was brimming from ear to ear as he got to first base. Gehrig said, "Geez, kid, did you hit that on your thumb?" The smile quickly disappeared from Grijalva's face. He thought it was a pretty solid hit. Gehrig laughed and tapped him on the head with his mitt to let him know he was teasin' with him. "You hit the hell out of that ball!" he added.

    The tour ended in Los Angeles to a crowd of 25,000 fans. Charley Root pitched for the Larrupin' Lous. Gehrig had two homers and Ruth none.

    Babe stayed in LA to make a movie and do other "Ruth-like" things. Lou went straight home after the trip, and would sell life insurance in the winter to make some extra money. His first customer was Babe would bought a pretty pricey policy.

    Walsh was along for the whole thing, and was a very detail oriented man. By his accounting, Babe and Lou had played in front of 200,000 fans and signed nearly 10,000 autographs. Babe hit .616 with 20 HR and Gehrig hit .618 with 13 HR on the trip. Babe earned $30K and Gehrig $10K.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 04-14-2006 at 09:19 AM.

  19. #19
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    Thanks guys. Some of the games that you mention I had previously found on ProQuest. I made a little spreadsheet and put it into a word doc and attached it with the sources. I found some info that fills the gaps in some of the data you got from the library. In summary here's what I had found:

    10/12/1920 - This game that ShoelessJoe3 mentions was in an article in Chicago Defender in 1946. It states that the opponent was the Hilldale Club and the pitcher was Jesse Flournoy - an outstanding lefty. Ruth was 0-3 with 2 K's, a flyout and an intentional walk.

    November 1920 Series against Cuba - Ruth was 10/29 with 5 runs, 2 singles, 3 doubles, 3 triples and two homers and 6 Ks.
    *In the same series Cristobal Torriente hits 3 homers in one game -- off NY Giants 1st baseman George "Highpockets" Kelly.

    Sometime shortly before 10/14/1921 Ruth All Stars played and lost to the Bacharach Giants. No mention of the score or stats.

    The 1922 game against Dick Redding when he K'd 3 times and walked once was mentioned in a 1949 article in the Chicago Defender. The walk was intentional.

    10/11/1926 - versus the Royal Giants he hit two homers over the fence in Bradley Beach NJ. Since the field was considered small, homers were counted as doubles. No mention of the number of times at bat. I am going to estimate 4 times on my sheet.

    10/11/1927 - versus Royal Giants Ruth hit 3 homers and the game was called as Sultan mentions below. I am estimating 4 at bats for stats purposes. Gehrig was 2 for 4 with a single and a double.

    10/13/1927 - versus Royal Giants in 3 at bats Ruth hits a single and a homer with a K and a walk. Gehrig was 2 for 3 with 2 homers, a walk and a K.

    So for games that we have a full game description of his stats, Ruth went 21 for 51 with 5 doubles, 3 triples, 8 homers, 12 Ks for a .412 average and 1.098 SA. Not too shabby.

    If I find anything else I will post it.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    "Batting slumps? I never had one. When a guy hits .358, he doesn't have slumps."

    Rogers Hornsby, 1961

  20. #20
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    A couple things to keep in mind about those stats.

    Fans were coming out to see Ruth, and later in 1927 to see Babe and Lou. They wanted to see in person what they had been reading about. Wins and losses must be taken with a grain of salt considering white teams were made up of mostly amateurs, playing against established Negro League teams who were used to traveling all summer. Babe's K rate and batting average were bound to suffer in these games, as he was always out to put on a show for the fans. That always came first.
    "Everyone left here, but I remain at my post, documenting my sports writers and photos. I don't do Ty Cobb anymore. I did for him everything I could do. Work will live on. Personalities will fade.

    Fever members come and go. Not relevant. Your documentations will live FOREVER, my brother. That outweighs all the Fever jack-asses. Ignore what you must, document all you can."
    - Bill Burgess

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    Fans were coming out to see Ruth, and later in 1927 to see Babe and Lou. They wanted to see in person what they had been reading about.
    The Fame of Babe:

    Randy/Joe,

    I once alluded to having read an article on Babe, which showed just how famous he was across the land of small towns. I finally found it.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    They knew him, too, in all the towns where the Yankees played exhibition games, such as St. Paul, Dayton, Buffalo, Toronto, Indianapolis and even Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, where, because he never appeared in championship games, they were eager to see him.

    Remembered here was a journey from St. Louis, where the Yankees had concluded a series, to St. Paul. The train on which their private cars had been coupled, made several stops, some of them deep in the night but at every one of them a crowd was waiting at the depot to see him, and he was there, on the platform of his car to say hello to them.

    "How did you know he was coming through?" a reporter asked a section hand at one of the stops.

    "The station agent told us," he said. "Every station along the line knows he's coming."

    In St. Paul he jammed traffic in the street from the station to the hotel, from the hotel to the ball park, from the ball park back to the hotel and from the hotel to the station. No President of the United Sates, no foreign visitor of distinction, ever caused greater confusion in the streets of that city."
    (Baseball Digest, March, 1962, Frank Graham, New York Journal-American, "The Year Babe Hit His 60: They knew him in hot spots and tank towns")
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I remember the last game the Yankees played in Chicago in 1920. It was on a Sunday and there was an overflow crowd, fans standing, roped off, in left and right fields. . . . The reason for the turnout was Ruth. Fans came in droves to see him, to see if he would hit a home run off Eddie Cicotte . . . The sports pages of the Chicago newspaper pointed out that Ruth had never hit a homer off Cicotte.

    The White Sox were locked in a pennant race with the Cleveland Indians, who won, and the Yankees, who finished third. The atmosphere was charged. There was the pennant race . . .the duel between Cicotte and Ruth . . .and there was also Joe Jackson, Eddie Collins, Ray Schalk, Buck Weaver, all authentic stars with the White Sox.

    . . . After the game, I watched the players come out of the clubhouse as I usually did. I saw Ruth. A crowd of over 100 kids has him not only surrounded, but almost mobbed. They pushed, shoved, scrambled and yelled so that Ruth could hardly move. Wearing a blue suit, and a gray cap, there was an expression of bewilderment on his moon face. He said nothing, rolled with the kids, and the strange, hysterical and noisy little mob slowly moved on, to the exit gate with Ruth in the center. More kids rushed to the edge of the crowd and they, also pushed and shoved. Ruth swayed from side to side, his shoulders bending one way and then the other. As they all swirled to the gate, Ruth narrowly escaped being shoved into mustard which had been spilled from an overturned barrel. Ruth and the kids left the park, with the big fellow still in the center of the crowd of kids.

    This was after a game in which he had not hit a home run. This was at a point in his career when he had hit only 100 of his 714 home runs." (Sport, May, 1974, by James T. Farrell, "The King Is Dead")
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 12-15-2006 at 08:35 AM.

  22. #22
    Join Date
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    NE Baltimore County
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    "Larry MacPhail, GM of the Dodgers, announced on June 17, 1938, that he'd hired Babe, for the rest of the 1938 season to be the third base coach for the Dodgers. His 1st game he appeared in a Dodger uniform on the field was June 18, 1938. He was supposed to appear in all the exhibition games, and give a 10 minute hitting exhibition before each regular & exhibition game. He was suckered again into believing that he'd be manager the following yr. But they changed their minds and gave the job to Leo Durocher, who Babe had dubbed the "All-American Out", when Leo had been a Yankee.

    Babe had also accused Leo of stealing an expensive watch from the Yankee clubhouse, when one turned up missing. Leo never forgot those things. So when he got the job for the Dodgers, Babe wasn't around the following year". (Information found in "The Babe and I", by Mrs. Clair Ruth, with Bill Slocum, 1959)
    this is a quote from the babe ruth thread which were are not supposed to use

    intent seems to be highly prejudicial against durocher - whether ruth was suckered or not i don't know - but it is obvious who the better managerial choice would be

    in durocher's defense why would he want the media's darling around threatening his job daily in the papers

    i've also read from durocher that ruth was usurping him with players and press - wasn't there an incident with signs where ruth came off a joke because he didn't know them with players ridiculing the big guy about his ineptitude - could be wrong though

    Randy:
    Most everyone understood Leo was pathetic with the stick.

    Just to clear something up though, it wasn't from the locker room, it was from a hotel room. Babe never liked Leo from the start, he didn't like his cocky attitude. Leo tried at first to get along with Babe, but it was no use.

    He saw the rookie wearing a tuxedo in the lobby of a hotel one time and said "Who's the little gink in the monkey suit?"

    Another night at late hours, Leo was in a hotel elevator when Babe and a couple others got on. Babe mentioned how drunk he was, and that he might have to be helped to bed. The others showed no sign of wanting to help, but Leo stepped forward and said he would help. He took Babe to his room and helped him to bed.

    The next morning Babe got it in his head that he was missing something, either money or a watch depending on what story you hear. Truth is, Ruth was out on the town as usual the night before, and there's no telling what happened to whatever he thought was missing. It was probably just his distain for Leo that made him assume something was gone. Leo's quote was "Jesus Christ, if I was going to steal anything from him I'd steal his goddamned Packard."

    Babe never let it go after that, continuing to bring it up from time to time, which made Leo now dislike Babe as much as Babe disliked him. On a train one time, babe was getting undressed with Leo nearby. "Hey Leo, you want to see something? Isn't that beautiful? That cost me seventy-five hundred bucks, Leo. I'm going to give it to Claire when we get to New York. Tonight, I'm putting it under my pillow. And, Leo, I want it to be there when I wake up in the morning."

    Babe could be a sh*t sometimes.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 08-06-2006 at 12:16 AM.

  23. #23
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    Code:
                                 (TB/OUTS)     (SAeff - Lg SA)   (SAeff - (Lg SA + Lg BA) * 200)
                    
                    RAW SA       SAeff       SAeff+         SAeff++
    Code:
    Ruth             .690         1.006        .605            64.00  
    TWilliams        .634         .923         .514            47.40
    Gehrig           .632         .922         .509            44.60
    Foxx             .609         .869         .447            31.60
    BaBonds          .607         .817         .407            28.80
    Greenberg        .605         .851         .432            29.20  
    Pujols           .599         .810         .389            25.20
    McGwire          .588         .758         .496            17.40
    MRamirez         .585         .799         .364            18.20
    JDiMaggio        .579         .829         .424            29.60
    Hornsby          .577         .852         .462            36.00
    MCabrera         .568         .781         .359            18.80
    LWalker          .565         .773         .331             9.80
    Mize             .562         .795         .401            25.40
    Musial           .559         .796         .388            23.20     
    ARodriguez       .558         .749         .317             9.20
    WMays            .557         .753         .353            17.80
    Mantle           .557         .765         .378            24.40
    BaBonds(98)      .556         .733         .333            14.20
    Aaron            .555         .750         .356            19.00
    Piazza           .545         .742         .322            11.60
    Griffey Jr       .538         .712         .288             3.80
    FRobinson        .537         .713         .317            11.20
    Sosa             .534         .691         .270             0.40      
    Ott              .533         .744         .347            13.40
    Cobb             .512         .755         .391            23.60
    EMathews         .509         .671         .272             2.40
    SCrawford        .452         .628         .288             5.20
    RHenderson       .419         .539         .139           -24.20
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 04-24-2014 at 05:16 PM.
    "Everyone left here, but I remain at my post, documenting my sports writers and photos. I don't do Ty Cobb anymore. I did for him everything I could do. Work will live on. Personalities will fade.

    Fever members come and go. Not relevant. Your documentations will live FOREVER, my brother. That outweighs all the Fever jack-asses. Ignore what you must, document all you can."
    - Bill Burgess

  24. #24
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    From “Launching the Legend” by Jim Reisler

    In Chicago against the White Sox, the Yankees bats kept on booming. The New Yorkers took three of four from the defending AL champs, with big crowds turning out to see what Ruth would do.

    Even the heavens couldn’t stop the Babe. For reasons known only to umpire Big Bill Dinneen, the series’ opening game on June 16 was kept going despite intermittent rain, periodic claps of thunder, and a muddy field. “Dinneen, the human duck, didn’t have sense enough to come in out of the rain, and, worse than that, kept the ballplayers out in the downpour with him,” the Times wrote. “A policeman doesn’t like to sleep any more than Dinneen likes rain.”

    With the Yankees up 3-2 after seven innings, it was raining so hard that Dinneen finally halted play. It rained hard for another 20 minutes, leaving the field a virtual mud pile. The game should have ended right then and there, but Dinneen resolved to continue. When the rain let up, out came an army of groundskeepers with brooms, sawdust, and ashes to get rid of the puddles. White Sox skipper Kid Gleason urged the men to work faster, knowing that the heart of the Yankee order - Pipp, Ruth, and Meusel – were due up in the eighth.

    Trudging out to the mound to face the Yanks in the eighth was Sox starter Red Faber. “He should have worn rubber boots and a raincoat,” the Times wrote. Pipp slapped a single to right and the rains resumed, coming down harder with each second. Then came a clap of thunder, and another. Still, Dinneen did nothing, and up came Ruth, stalking through the mud to face Faber. It was a delicious moment, like a scene from the film The Natural when even the thunder couldn’t stop Roy Hobbs. But this was real life, and Ruth cracked a delivery from Faber on a long arc toward right field. Sox right fielder Eddie Murphy backed up to the fence, but the ball dropped into the crowd for a home run, Ruth’s 18th.

    Ruth hit home run number 19 the following afternoon off Lefty Williams in the fourth. Ruth was showing no concern about weather conditions, blasting this shot into the teeth of a gale-force wind blowing in from center field and clear over the right-field bleachers onto Michigan Avenue. Ruth was decimating the competition with home runs, and giving people hope that his all-time record of 29 would soon be eclipsed.
    "Everyone left here, but I remain at my post, documenting my sports writers and photos. I don't do Ty Cobb anymore. I did for him everything I could do. Work will live on. Personalities will fade.

    Fever members come and go. Not relevant. Your documentations will live FOREVER, my brother. That outweighs all the Fever jack-asses. Ignore what you must, document all you can."
    - Bill Burgess

  25. #25
    Casey Stengel on Babe Ruth. While playing for the Dodgers he first saw Ruth during spring training an exhibition game against the Baltimore Orioles of the International League. Like most major leaguer's Stengel paid little attention to minor league players.

    "Ruth got up, he was a pitcher and a minor leaguer, so I'm playing him shallow but I saw the way he swung the bat, he looked good. I better not play him shallow, I should play him regular. I stood there and the ball went about ten miles over my head. Back to the bench at the innings end and manager Wilbert Robinson said, "where the hell are you playing him?" Stengel replies, "what the hell do you mean, where am I playing him, I should have been in 15 feet, the guy's a pitcher and a minor leaguer."

    "Ruth comes up again and our center fielder Hy Myers looks over and I say, do you think I'm deep enough now, I'm back by the fence. And Ruth hits one over his head, out of sight, I never saw anything like it."
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 01-28-2006 at 07:30 PM.

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