Best Position Players of All Time - #22

[leecemark]

--Congratulations to Nap Lajoie for claiming his place amoung the all time greats in poll #1. Elected so far;
1) Babe Ruth
2) Ty Cobb
3) Willie Mays
4) Honus wagner
5) Ted Williams
6) Barry Bonds
7) Tris Speaker
8) Stan Musial
9) Lou Gehrig
10) Hank Aaron
11) Mickey Mantle
12) Rogers Hornsby
13) Eddie Collins
14) Mike Schmidt
15) Oscar Charleston
16) Josh Gibson
17) Joe DiMaggio
18) Frank Robinson
19) Joe Morgan
20) Jimmie Foxx
21) Nap Lajoie
---Please vote for your top 10 remaining candidates, numbered 1-10. The votes wil be counted MVP style in a week or so.l

[leecemark]

1) Johnny Bench - best MLB catcher ever is overdue
2) Rickey Henderson - best leadoff man ever may be also
3) Alex Riodriguez - 5 years from now this will look laughably low
4) Pop Lloyd - best NeL infielder
5) Yogi Berra - #2 MLB catcher
6) Eddie Mathews - #2 all time 3B
7) George Brett - right on Eddie's heels
8) Turkey Stearnes - unrated NeL suoerstar
9) Cap Anson - best player of the 19th century
10) Reggie Jackson - best AL player and slugger of the 1970s
--my second team
C) Piazza
1B) Murray
2B) Gehringer
3B) Boggs
SS) Ripken
LF) Yaz
CF) Griffey
RF) Ott
DH) Thomas
Utl) Rose
10)

[abacab]

1. Mel Ott
2. Johnny Bench
3. Rickey Henderson
4. Pop Lloyd
5. Eddie Mathews
6. Yogi Berra
7. George Brett
8. Ken Griffey Jr.
9. Alex Rodriguez
10. Carl Yastrzemski

[dgarza]

1. Mel Ott
2. Dan Brouthers
3. Cap Anson
4. Ed Delahanty
5. Pete Rose
6. Sam Crawford
7. Harry Heilmann
8. Johnny Mize
9. Alex Rodriguez
10. Paul Waner

[Yankee Legend]

1. Johnny Bench
2. Roberto Clemente
3. Pete Rose
4. George Sisler
5. Joe Jackson
6. Hank Greenberg
7. Ernie Banks
8. Yogi Berra
9. Mel Ott
10. Al Simmons

11. Jackie Robinson
12. Charley Gehringer
13. Buck Leonard
14. Reggie Jackson
15. Tony Gwynn
16. Roy Campanella
17. Rickey Henderson
18. Harry Heilmann
19. George Brett
20. Willie McCovey

[Blackout]

1-Alex Rodriguez
2-Pop Lloyd
3-Frank Thomas
4-Yogi Berra
5-Joe Jackson
6-Ed Delahanty
7-Wade Boggs
8-Cap Anson
9-Tony Gwynn
10-Johnny Bench

[Wee Willie]

1. Mel Ott
2. Rickey Henderson
3. Pop Lloyd
4. Eddie Mathews
5. Arky Vaughan
6. Alex Rodriguez
7. Turkey Stearnes
8. Jeff Bagwell
9. Yogi Berra
10. George Brett

[mac195]

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Johnny Bench
3. Rickey Henderson
4. Yogi Berra
5. Mel Ott
6. Pop Lloyd
7. George Brett
8. Eddie Mathews
9. Ken Griffey Jr.
10. Carl Yastrzemski

[Bench 5]

1. Johnny Bench - symbol of excellence
2. Alex Rodriguez - underrated because of big contract
3. Pop Lloyd - If he's good enough for Hans he's good enough for me
4. Ernie Banks - best Cub of all time
5. Cal Ripken - always thought he'd be even better but still great
6. Harmon Killebrew - HR hitting machine
7. Ken Griffey Jr - considering he probably wasn't on steroids, his numbers are even more incredible
8. Eddie Matthews - 2nd best to Schmitty
9. Roberto Clemente - superb overall player
10. Mel Ott - Adjusted his game to his park but road splits still awesome

[Cyclone792]

1) Mel Ott
2) Rickey Henderson
3) Eddie Mathews
4) Johnny Bench
5) Pete Rose
6) Arky Vaughan
7) Pop Lloyd
8) Alex Rodriguez
9) Joe Jackson
10) George Brett

[yanks0714]

1) Rickey Henderson
2) Eddie Matthews
3) Ed Delahanty
4) Jackie Robinson
5) Mel Ott
6) Johnny Bench
7) George Brett
8) Hank Greenberg
9) Frank Thomas (usually don't vote for actives but he's about done)
10) Arky Vaughan

[Freakshow]

1.Ott
2.E.Mathews
3.A.Rodriguez
4.R.Henderson
5.Brett
6.Ripken
7.Bench
8.Anson
9.Berra
10.Lloyd

[mac195]

9) Frank Thomas (usually don't vote for actives but he's about done)

Active players are being ranked along with everyone else in this poll. If you are going to participate, I think you need to rank them. Otherwise, you will skew the results.

[baseballPAP]

1- Rickey Henderson-best leadoff hitter ever, except maybe for #4 below
2- Johnny Bench
3- Alex Rodriguez-moving up yearly
4- Billy Hamilton
5- Ed Delahanty
6- Dan Brouthers
7-Eddie Mathews
8-Pop Lloyd
9-Mel Ott
10-Cap Anson

[RogersMaris]

1 Pop Lloyd
2 Yogi Berra
3 Johnny Bench
4 Jackie Robinson
5 Alex Rodriguez
6 Biz Mackay
7 Eddie Mathews
8 Al Kaline
9 Melvin Ott
10 George Brett

[Edgartohof]

1 Johnny Bench
2. Yogi Berra
3. Alex Rodriguez
4. Wade Boggs
5. Ed Delehanty
6. Ken Griffey Jr.
7. Mel Ott
8. Mickey Cochrane
9. George Brett
10. Jeff Bagwell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Charlie Gheringer
12. Pop Lloyd
13. Eddie Matthews
14. Jackie Robinson
15. Rickey Henderson

[christian gentleman]

1. joe jackson
2. johnny mize
3. brooks robinson
4. jackie robinson
5. yogi berra
6. hank greenberg
7. roberto clemente
8. ricky henderson
9. barry bonds
10. mel ott

[538280]

1. joe jackson
2. johnny mize
3. brooks robinson
4. jackie robinson
5. yogi berra
6. hank greenberg
7. roberto clemente
8. ricky henderson
9. barry bonds
10. mel ott

Bonds was already elected, and Greenberg, Mize, and Brooks Robinson really have no business on anyone's ballot at this point.

[538280]

1.Rickey Henderson-greatest leadoff man ever, very underrated, as leadoff men often are
2.Pop Lloyd-2nd best SS, 3rd greatest Negro Leaguer
3.Johnny Bench-best ML catcher ever.
4.Arky Vaughan-very underrated, 3rd best SS
5.Frank Thomas-3rd best hitter ever.
6.Christobal Torriente-one of the most complete players ever, all time great glove and very good bat as well. DiMaggio light.
7.Eddie Mathews-first really great hitting 3B
8.Jeff Bagwell-Great hitter and fielder from 1B. He just wasn't as good a hitter as Thomas
9.Alex Rodriguez-looks like he'll be the best player of the 2000s, but Pujols poses a threat
10.Reggie Jackson-my favorite player, I think he's underrated here at BBF. Best AL player of the 1970s.

Next up:
11.Jackie Robinson
12.George Brett
13.Turkey Stearnes
14.Mel Ott
15.Pete Rose
16.Yogi Berra
17.Tony Gwynn
18.Tim Raines
19.Ron Santo
20.Willie McCovey

[yanks0714]

Active players are being ranked along with everyone else in this poll. If you are going to participate, I think you need to rank them. Otherwise, you will skew the results.

So you want to rank active players who have not had their decline phase against players who have?

I seriously can't rank ARod today while he's at his peak against players who have gone through a decline phase, in some cases severe declines. Without being able to judge how he did throughout his entire career, which is incomplete, how can you rank him against Wagner for example {or any other SS}?

If that's the feeling, then I withdraw rather than have someone dictate to me how I should view and vote.

[yanks0714]

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Johnny Bench
3. Rickey Henderson
4. Yogi Berra
5. Mel Ott
6. Pop Lloyd
7. George Brett
8. Eddie Mathews
9. Ken Griffey Jr.
10. Carl Yastrzemski

ARod first? He's played how many years thus far? Seems as if he's lacking quite a bit of longevity to me in comp to some of those other guys, except Junior. Tell me, how has he coped with his decline phase? Was it as bad as, say, Vaughan's?
Where is Frank Thomas? You really honestly think The Big Hurt is behind some of these other guys?
I don't complain when I see someone who does rate the current players. That is their perogative. And my perogative is to not rank them for the most part. Same with the Negro Leaguer players, although the NL players do not have nearly as much data to rank them as do ML players. I don't complain about those who do rank NL players.
Basically, you told me my opinion skews the rankings. Perhaps, I think your list skews the ranking as well....but I didn't complain about it.
Can you honestly tell me my lists that I have submitted are totally off-the-wall? Especially in comp to some other lists?

Active players are being ranked along with everyone else in this poll. If you are going to participate, I think you need to rank them. Otherwise, you will skew the results.

Mac, I notice that you are located in Japan. Near Mt Fuji. I would imagine that you have a good sense of Japanese baseball history. There have been many outstanding players in Japan. Chancellor has made a number of posts on them that I've found to be incredibly interesting.
Have you ranked any of them yet? Just curious.

[538280]

So you want to rank active players who have not had their decline phase against players who have?

I seriously can't rank ARod today while he's at his peak against players who have gone through a decline phase, in some cases severe declines. Without being able to judge how he did throughout his entire career, which is incomplete, how can you rank him against Wagner for example {or any other SS}?

If that's the feeling, then I withdraw rather than have someone dictate to me how I should view and vote.

What I do is just rank active players based on what they've done to this point, and I give their rate stats a bit of a hit in comparison to others who did go through a decline.

Although it is most certainly your right to not include active players if you wish, I agree with Mac that you will skew the results if you don't include.

This is a poll for all position players, which means everyone should be included. If everyone isn't included, then it will unfairly boost some players and unfairly hinder others.

[leecemark]

--There is no requirement to include mid-career players (or 19th century players or Negro Leaguers or whatever). I would like everyone to give consideration to ALL players, regardless of when or where they played. The 10 you list should be those you feel are the 10 best based on whatever criteria you are using. I don't expect any too lists to be the same, nor is any player of type of player required to be included. Some lists I've found extremely puzzling and can't see how any logical system could come up with them, but its just for fun, so what difference does it make.

[mac195]

ARod first? He's played how many years thus far? Seems as if he's lacking quite a bit of longevity to me in comp to some of those other guys, except Junior.

Even if his decline phase turns out to be worse than you would expect, his peak value should give him a top-20 career. Chances are quite slim that he will be so bad from this point on that he ends up not being a top-20 player. Therefore I rank him in the top 20. The chances of him not being a top 32 player after retirement are slimmer still, so I think he is a pretty glaring omission from anyone's list at this point.

You really honestly think The Big Hurt is behind some of these other guys?

I sure do. He is behind all of those guys and a couple more.

I don't complain when I see someone who does rate the current players. That is their perogative. And my perogative is to not rank them for the most part. Same with the Negro Leaguer players...

This is a poll to rank all players. We could have a poll to rank all players who are already retired, and did not play in the Negro Leagues. That would be a different poll.

Can you honestly tell me my lists that I have submitted are totally off-the-wall? Especially in comp to some other lists?

No, not at all. Your lists are quite reasonable, except for the fact that you refuse to rank active players and Negro Leaguers.

Mac, I notice that you are located in Japan. Near Mt Fuji. I would imagine that you have a good sense of Japanese baseball history. There have been many outstanding players in Japan. Chancellor has made a number of posts on them that I've found to be incredibly interesting.
Have you ranked any of them yet? Just curious.

I don't think any of them have deserved to make my list yet. But I will be including Oh fairly soon.

[538280]

I sure do. He is behind all of those guys and a couple more.

Why? You ask Yanks for his own justification, and yet provide none of your own.