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Thread: Your 19th Century All-Time, All-Star Team

  1. #41

    Harry Stovey

    The more I research, the more I'm impressed with Harry Stovey. He's jumped up to #1 in my book of best player not in the HOF. He's one of three players with more runs scored than games played (Not by much however). For his period, he was an outstanding slugger and a great base stealer. He's credited as the 1st player to reach the 100 HR pinnacle and has over 500 SB in spite of the fact they were not recorded until midway through his career. He's credited with popularizing the feet first slide and for wearing sliding pads. To me, most impressively for his period, he had over 110 R for 9 straight years.

    The biggest mystery to me is how he played defensively. I gather Stovey was moved around yearly in a similar fashion that Stan Musial was. Stovey played the position he was needed at. He played LF after LF Harry Larkin began to play 1B exclusively due to his inability to judge fly balls. In addition, Stovey played along side an exceptional fielding CF Curt Welch. So, we can't judge if he would've been a good CF. Remember, in his era, we can't judge players defensive ability by looking at error totals. The 1B position was more a fielding position being played as much outside the foul lines as within them. All factors, vague as they are, I have to judge him a good fielder. Altough, I can't call this an absolute judgement.

    Overall, if I make a 19th century all time all star team, I have to find a place for Harry Stovey. For instance, simply putting the best players by position may not make a good overall team. The lineup must balance out. I think when you ask a manager his all time team, he considers that aspect unless he's short sighted like many managers today seem to be.
    In the 1920's, Harry Heilmann led the AL with a .364 average. In addition, he averaged 220 hits, 45 doubles, 12 triples, 16 homers, 110 runs, and 130 RBI.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burgess View Post
    Guys,

    It is perfectly acceptable to use players who played into the 1900's, as long as they played a significant portion of their careers in the 1800's.

    Such players would include Cy Young, Jimmy Collins, George Davis, Willie Keeler, John McGraw, Clark Griffith, Bobby Lowe.

    But Honus Wagner/Nap Lajoie? You know better than that. Please stop trying to get away with stuff you know you shouldn't. Please? It's just historically inappropriate.
    And by "historically inappropriate," Bill means both inappropriate for the study of history as well as inappropriate on a historic scale!

    Gonna have to start using that from now on. "That's just historically inappropriate." </disgust> Just another bat in the proverbial rack from which Bill pulverizes so many pellets from this period. Another peak in the parade to procuring a providential pennant for the perspiring professor of perseverance in his probing for priceless pearls and prizes of primeval philosophy, proficiencies and propaganda. Praises!
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Classic View Post
    And by "historically inappropriate," Bill means both inappropriate for the study of history as well as inappropriate on a historic scale!

    Gonna have to start using that from now on. "That's just historically inappropriate." </disgust>
    Didn't think I could be so pithy, did ya, now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Classic View Post
    Just another bat in the proverbial rack from which Bill pulverizes so many pellets from this period. Another peak in the parade to procuring a providential pennant for the perspiring professor of perseverance in his probing for priceless pearls and prizes of primeval philosophy, proficiencies and propaganda. Praises!
    That's a lotta lovin' alliteration, my loquacious lad.

  4. #44
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    19th c. "A and B" Team
    C - Ewing, Bennett
    1B - Anson, Brouthers
    2B - Barnes, F. Grant
    SS - Glasscock, Ward
    3B - White, McGraw
    LF - Delahanty, O'Rourke
    CF - Hamilton, Hines
    RF - Kelly, Thompson
    SP - Clarkson, Nichols

    Pre-NA Team
    C - Joe Leggett
    1B - Joe Start
    2B - Bob Vavasour Ferguson
    SS - George Wright
    3B - Dickey Pearce
    OF - Nate Berkenstock
    CF - Harry Wright
    OF - Lip Pike
    P - Jim Creighton
    Last edited by bluesky5; 09-16-2013 at 06:44 PM.
    "I go all out. And I'm going to bring that to the table every day, in good times and bad times." - Eric Byrnes

    "...far too many people want to retroactively apply today's standards to yesterday's players, as if they played the game under the same assumptions and just heedlessly and obdurately plowed on in their own groove." - Los Bravos

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
    C- Buck Ewing
    1B - Dan Brouthers
    2B - Bid McPhee
    3B - John McGraw
    SS - Hugh Jennings
    LF - Ed Delahanty
    CF - Billy Hamilton
    RF - Sam Thompson
    U - Mike Kelly
    Pitchers - Kid Nichols, Amos Rusie, Cy Young, Tim Keefe
    This would be my team also.

  6. #46
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    C-Buck Ewing
    1B-Cap Anson
    2B-Bid McPhee
    SS-George Davis
    3B-John McGraw
    LF-Ed Delahanty
    CF-Billy Hamilton
    RF-Willie Keeler

    SP-Cy Young
    SP-Kid Nichols
    SP-Old Hoss Radbourn
    SP-Tim Keefe
    SP-Pud Galvin

  7. #47
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    C: Buck Ewing
    1B: Dan Brouthers
    2B: Bid McPhee
    SS: George Davis
    3B: Jimmy Collins
    LF: Ed Delahanty
    CF: Billy Hamilton
    RF: Willie Keeler

    Bench/Honorable Mention
    Utility: King Kelly, Monte Ward, Bob Caruthers
    C: Charlie Bennett
    1B: Cap Anson, Roger Connor
    2B: drawing a blank and not a big Barnes supporter, maybe Nap Lajoie
    SS: Bill Dahlen
    3B: John McGraw
    OF: Sam Thompson, George Gore, Paul Hines, Jesse Burkett, Pete Browning

    P: Tim Keefe, John Clarkson, Kid Nichols, Hoss Radbourne, Cy Young, Amos Rusie

  8. #48
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    C Mike "King" Kelly
    1B Dan Brouthers
    2B Hardy Richardson
    SS Jack Glasscock,
    3B John McGraw
    LF Ed Delahanty
    CF Billy Hamilton
    RF Sam Thompson
    P Tim Keefe, John Clarkson, Jim "Pud" Galvin, Amos Rusie

  9. #49
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    C1. Buck Ewing
    1B. Dan Brouthers
    2B. Bid McPhee
    SS. Hugie Jennings
    3B. Johm McGraw
    LF. Ed Delahanty
    CF. Billy Hamilton
    RF. Jesse Burkett

    SP1. Kid Nichols
    SP2. Cy Young
    SP3. Tim Keefe
    SP4. John Clarkson
    SP5. Pud Galvin
    Last edited by chicagowhitesox1173; 01-05-2013 at 05:18 PM.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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